CES 2015: preview Sony's new 4K video cameras (http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/01/04/ces-2015-hands-on-with-sonys-new-4k-video-cameras/21129537/)



First Sony CES camera leak!

1 inch type sensor?
Balanced Optical Stabilization?
100Mbp/s UHD? (I certainly hope so!)

Seems pretty cheap. Will this replace the AX100?

Judging by the lens speed and different pixel count, I dont think its the same AX100 sensor. Looks like it could be a smaller sensor.

CT

I wonder if this is the rumored Sony camcorder I've heard about? I was expecting a more professional model.

Maybe a new sensor common to it and the new Action cam. Likely a 1/3" unit ? Will have to see if it does 60P with image stabilization which would give an advantage over the GoPro. I guess we will have to wait until tomorrow to get more details as I am sure this may be an unapproved release.

Ron Evans

My guess is it's a compact, light weight chassis comparable to the current PJ790V/NX30 cameras. The sensor would be around 1/3" but more likely 1/2.3". It is also very likely to have the BOSS system to set it apart from any 4K cams in any price category. Low light performance won't be as good as the AX100 but in good light it should be close or even unnoticeable. Unlikely to have 4K/60p or 50p due mainly to marketing reasons and not Sony's inability to make a more power efficient IP or meet the cooling requirement.

Aaaannnd...the link died.

If it's 1/2.3'', expect the fixed pattern noise found in the FDR-AX1 to creep back on over. At least Panasonic used 2 less megapixels to increase low light performance by a bit. I don't see fixed pattern noise on the Panasonics neither, only random noise, but there's still noise there.

1'' is the sweet spot for consumer 4K sensors, and using less megapixels on that 1'' type sensor would greatly improve performance.

I think USA Today just violated their NDA!

Im glad I copied thier .jpg before they realized it...lol

I wonder if this is the rumored Sony camcorder I've heard about? I was expecting a more professional model.

teorically are three new cams and one actioncam. I hope in a ax100 with 50p but not surprise me of a budget and a mid 4k camera like the cx900 and ax100 was last year . The image leaked probably is the budget one

Yeah,...Sony also has an "X1000V" supposedly being announced too.

This could be the rumored interchangeable lens Handycam similar to the VG30 or VG900....[edit]..WRONG!...no such luck. It's an Actioncam

Will it be full frame or APSC.

Could it have the A7s sensor?....wow.

Aaaannnd...the link died.

not much info anyway:
CES 2015: preview Sony's new 4K video cameras (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mAqQPPA-Fm4J:www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/01/04/ces-2015-hands-on-with-sonys-new-4k-video-cameras/21129537/+&cd=1&hl=sl&ct=clnk&gl=si)

CES 2015: New 4K Handycam FDR-AX33 (FIRST LOOK) - YouTube

Oh wonderful.......

They gave this little guy 100Mbp/s UHD.

Meanwhile, the AX100 (for $700 more money) is stuck at a lousy 60Mbp/s.

Sony, give is a firmware update!...I HATE it when cheaper and lower models have better codecs than their higher priced cousins.

CT

I heard her say 60Mbps for the AX33 . The Actioncam X1000 though does seem to record at 100Mbps in 4K with timecode. 60Mbps for HD.

The AX33 may be a nice replacement for my CX700 though I am not a fan of slow frame rates. Which is why I have the FDR-AX1. I expect all the low light performances may not be that good though.

Ron Evans

Yeah,...she said 60Mbp/s. However, B&H has this on their website:

"Note: UHS-I U3 or higher SDXC memory card required for 100Mbps 4K recording, and Class 10 or higher SDXC required for 60Mbps 4K recording."

B&H could be wrong. They have made mistakes before.

Hopefully this week, somebody can get a hands on review of this little guy to verify.

There seem to be quite a few "questionable" specs being tossed around...

Sony CES site does say 100Mbps, and indicates it needs a faster card, so "maybe"... still 30p though. More problematic is that they say 1" sensor in one spot, and 1/2.3" in another... the latter is more likely with the BOSS (not sure how they would get the larger sensor into the gimbal...), and appears to be the same one that's in the action cam? Pricing is quoted as $999 in the video by the "talent", and is shown as $1099 on the CES announcement page...

Not seeing it as a AX100 class camera by any means, but it replaces the old CX/PJ7xx series, more or less.

Anyone find any video shot with one yet, that's the "proof of the pudding"!

This looks like a sony CXxxx replacement, a smaller sensor doesn't necessarily mean worse low light performance though as my cx730 is equally sensitive as my ax100 yet produces less noise at it's highest iso but cannot match the ax100 detail at those levels after downscaling from 4k to 1080p.

This might be a worthy replacement for my cx730's once the price goes down in a year or so.

Yep, I'm thinking the same thing, upgrade the PJ760...

The low light specs I read on the Sony page indicated it's a bit worse in low light in 4K modes than in 1080p modes... 9 lux vs 6 lux IIRC.

Of course all the specs are "open" until we get more solid info - it would certainly be "nice" if this was the 1" AX100 sensor on a "magic eyeball", and it would make this a nice second cam to the AX100 (and at the $999 price not $100 more!).

IMO the "random number" approach to product info release needs a bit of work! Panasonic seems to have done a bit better job of getting their specs in a row... and a couple good "competing" offerings to keep things interesting!

Even stranger, there appears to be a Euro model, AXP33 with a projector, and the US model without...

BUT... the good news is that AX100 should get the higher bitrate with new firmware in March!!

Now where is the 4K firmware for the RX10/RX100M3... c'mon Sony, give us some love! We all know the hardware is there...

"The FDR-AX100 will also support XAVC S 4K 100Mbps high-bitrate recording through a firmware update scheduled for March 2015."

Source: Capture every detail of your life in 4K* with compact new... - Sony (http://presscentre.sony.eu/pressreleases/capture-every-detail-of-your-life-in-4k-with-compact-new-handycam-r-from-sony-1103109)

So, presumably (!) the Sony PXW-X70 will get this 100Mbps 4K encoding rate too - and hopefully a few other flavours of XAVC, bearing in mind it's going to be a paid for update whilst the "lesser" AX100 etc. will get it for free?

The X70 may get expanded XAVC flavors beyond XAVC-S, which means 4:2:2 10bit is therefore possible in 4K. Keep in mind the AX100 and X70 do not support U3 SDXC cards, even though they have the best front-ends with their 1'' sensors. Knowing Sony, unless they add a XQD slot to the X70, there won't be expanded XAVC flavors for 4K60p or 4K intra-only available.

1/2.3 type(7.76mm) back-illuminated Exmor R CMOS Sensor

The LongGOP upgrade for the PXW-Z100 was still 4:2:0 8 bit XAVC-L MXF which is what I think will be the case for the X70 . I agree the sensible way would be to have a hardware up grade to XQD cards for the X70.

We will have to wait and see have the low light performance compares to previous models. It look like the specs show about the same for HD performance.

Ron Evans

FDR-AX33/B $999.99 no ETA...
4K Ultra HD 3840×2160

Handycam camcorder is around 30% smaller and 20% lighter than the current model and is the first 4K Handycam to come equipped with Balanced Optical SteadyShot technology capable of suppressing blur during all modes of shooting, from wide-angle to telephoto. With this automatic image stabilization, high-resolution 4K video recording becomes easier for consumers than ever before.

• Capture 4k/30p video that far exceeds HD resolution
• 1" Exmor R® CMOS sensor w/ Direct Pixel Read Out
• 14MP resolution video and 20MP still image capture
• Versatile shooting w/ XAVC S2, AVCHD and MP4 codecs
• Carl Zeiss® Vario Sonnar T* lens w/ 12x optical zoom
• Multi-interface Accessory Shoe for system accessories
• Advanced Features
• Image Stabilization :B.O.S.S. - Balanced Optical SteadyShot image stabilization w/ Active mode (Wide to Tele)
• Wi-Fi : Built-In (Wi-Fi Compatible, IEEE 802.11b/g/n(2.4GHz band)
• NightShot® Infrared System : Yes
• CinemaTone Gamma/Color : Yes
• Intelligent Auto : Portrait / Baby / Walk / Tripod / Backlight / Landscape / Spotlight / Twilight / Macro / Low light / Auto wind noise reduction
• x.v.Color™ : Yes
• Audio Level Display : Yes
• Assignable Dial : Yes (Exposure /AE Shift / WB Temp. / WB B-A / WB G-M Set)
• Face Detection : Yes
• Smile Shutter™ technology : Dual Capture / Always On / Off
• Priority Setting (for Face Detection) : Auto/OFF
• AGC Limit : Yes
• Airplane Mode : Yes
• Wi-Fi Functionality : Remote control with mobile device, send to smartphone, send to PC (with optional wi-fi accessory)
• Tracking Focus : Yes
• Motion Shot Video : Yes (AVCHD / XAVC S HD or MP4 only)
• Premium Closer Voice : Yes
• Golf Shot : Yes [AVCHD only]
• My Voice Canceling : Yes
• Smooth Slow Rec : Yes [AVCHD only]

Phil, could you check up on the specs.4K Camcorder with 1" sensor ? FDR-AX33/B Review | Sony Store U.S. - Sony US (http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-with-1-sensor-zid27-FDRAX33/B/cat-27-catid-ces-2015-camcorders?_t=pfm%3Dcategory) The Sony site has both sensor sizes quoted on the same page !!!! I think that there is a little cut and paste error !! I am sure the sensor is really 1/2.3 as stated lower down in the specs page.

Ron Evans

The 35mm-equivalent wide end for the AX100 and the AX33 is stated to be about 29mm.

But if you look at the lenses of the two camcorders you see engraved around the lens (so no typos):

AX100: 9.3mm-111.6mm

AX33: 3.8-38

The crop factor of the AX33 is much bigger than that of the AX100, indicating its sensor is much smaller. It's the same size sensor as that for the Sony Action Cam!

Phil, could you check up on the specs.4K Camcorder with 1" sensor ? FDR-AX33/B Review | Sony Store U.S. - Sony US (http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-with-1-sensor-zid27-FDRAX33/B/cat-27-catid-ces-2015-camcorders?_t=pfm%3Dcategory) The Sony site has both sensor sizes quoted on the same page !!!! I think that there is a little cut and paste error !! I am sure the sensor is really 1/2.3 as stated lower down in the specs page.

Ron Evans

It's listed as a 1/2.3" sensor on the B&H page:

Sony FDR-AX33 4K Ultra HD Handycam Camcorder FDR-AX33 B&H Photo



Does the camera come with a lens hood? I haven't come across any pics with one. Nor is one listed with "in the box." The new 4K Panasonics come with one.

Pretty sure it's the smaller sensor... BIG goof to list it as a 1" sensor... oh well, it's got some other "handy" features, if the video output looks good, should be a decent stealth/second angle cam that again can be cropped with good results for HD projects.

Good question on the hood... haven't seen one yet in any promo posted, would seem like it should get one, but maybe they decided "stealth" was more important?!

Multi Camera Control Live Streaming

Intriguing - Can 5 compatible cameras be live switched with the wifi function and then streamed?

The LongGOP upgrade for the PXW-Z100 was still 4:2:0 8 bit XAVC-L MXF which is what I think will be the case for the X70 . I agree the sensible way would be to have a hardware up grade to XQD cards for the X70.

We will have to wait and see have the low light performance compares to previous models. It look like the specs show about the same for HD performance.

Ron Evans
Makes you wonder why 4K/UHD wasn't included on the X70 from the get-go rather than added as an upgrade, let alone as a paid upgrade (and IIRC from rumors I read a while ago, not a cheap one).

Makes you wonder why 4K/UHD wasn't included on the X70 from the get-go rather than added as an upgrade, let alone as a paid upgrade (and IIRC from rumors I read a while ago, not a cheap one).

If I recall the upgrade to the PXW-Z100 came out after the X70 and this was the LongGOP MXF version XAVC-L rather than the consumer XAVC-S mov wrapper. It may well be that Sony want the PXW-X70 to also be XAVC-L and the encoding just was not complete in time. There are some strange differences. For example my FDR-AX1 does not have timecode yet some of the Sony Actioncam products with XAVC-S do. X70 does have timecode/data code but I could not get the button on the demo I had to display anything but Catalyst Browse does !!!! So the information is in the file !!!

My FDR-AX1 has 3840x2160 30P with data rates of 60Mbps and 100Mbps as well as 60P at 150Mbps. I can understand that 60P needs the fan to keep the processor cool enough so not viable for the FDR-AX100 but why there was not 30P at 100 Mbps until now !!!

I think a lot of these products are being rushed out incomplete.

Ron Evans

IMO, the AX100 has an excellent front-end (despite what some people complain about ungraceful highlights roll-off) but could use a few less megapixels if it was a video-only camera variant such as the X70. Give it around the same megapixel count as a FS700 (around 11 in 16:9 mode) and it meets the sensitivity requirements pros currently expect.

And yes, the AX100 has to do software barrel distortion correction due to it's lens design, but compared to everything else using 1/2.3'', 1'' is by far superior.

Add on a single XQD slot, 60p and possibly Intra recording and the X70 will certainly blow the Z100 out of the water.

I also believe the AX100 and X70 missed out on internal storage, since the NXCAM FMU units won't be fast enough to record 4K data over a USB 2.0 interface. There needs to be a FMU unit for 4K if people want extra redundancy.

Sample footage from what's deemed a 'prototype' has been posted at Cinema5D

Sony FDR - AX33 (Prototype), Video Footage (http://www.cinema5d.com/exclusive-sony-fdrax33-4k-handycam/)

Thoughts?

Sample footage from what's deemed a 'prototype' has been posted at Cinema5D
Sony FDR - AX33 (Prototype), Video Footage (http://www.cinema5d.com/exclusive-sony-fdrax33-4k-handycam/)
Thoughts?

There is a lot of chromatic aberrations, don't you thing so?

got an email from Sony this morning with a link to WiFi 4K Camcorder with Projector | FDR-AXP33 | Sony IE (http://www.sony.ie/electronics/handycam-camcorders/fdr-axp33#product_details_default)
it's definitely a 1/2.3 type (7.76mm) sensor. Looking at the front of it I cant see where a hood could be attached.
On the Irish site it'll cost €1,299.00 !!
I might buy one in the coming months but not in Ireland ;-)

With that confirmation, I'm passing on this camera. The last time 1/2.3'' was used didn't yield great results (AX1 and the Z100) and I'm almost certain this will be the same. In the very least, the Panasonic HC-X1000 uses the same size sensor, but less megapixels and without fixed pattern noise in good lighting conditions.

Early reviews also show massive CA on the lens.

If I recall the upgrade to the PXW-Z100 came out after the X70 and this was the LongGOP MXF version XAVC-L rather than the consumer XAVC-S mov wrapper. It may well be that Sony want the PXW-X70 to also be XAVC-L and the encoding just was not complete in time. There are some strange differences. For example my FDR-AX1 does not have timecode yet some of the Sony Actioncam products with XAVC-S do. X70 does have timecode/data code but I could not get the button on the demo I had to display anything but Catalyst Browse does !!!! So the information is in the file !!!

My FDR-AX1 has 3840x2160 30P with data rates of 60Mbps and 100Mbps as well as 60P at 150Mbps. I can understand that 60P needs the fan to keep the processor cool enough so not viable for the FDR-AX100 but why there was not 30P at 100 Mbps until now !!!

I think a lot of these products are being rushed out incomplete.

Ron Evans

I have the perception that the FDR-AX1 is experimental camera. I say this because on Avid forum I start a little war against Ian Cook and lack of Xavc-s ama plug-in (which is necessary to import video files in Media Composer without transcoding). He replayed that xavc-s is a consumer codec (and Media Composer a professional programm) and when I pointed out of the existence of the AX1 he simply no answer me....

No the AX1 is not experimental but definitely not complete !! There are still interfaces that do not work. The data code button and USB host for instance. I think Sony rushed out the FDR-AX1 and the PXW-Z100 to support their push for 4K at a lower price point. Yes XAVC-S is the consumer version of the XAVC codec. XAVC-S is a 4:2:0 8bit codec with mov wrapper and XAVC has the option for 8bit as well as 10bit in either 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 with MXF wrapper.

I have had my AX1 camera for over a year now and it works well in good light. Right from the beginning both Vegas and Edius supported the XAVC-S as well as XAVC codec so I think the issue is with AVID . By the way Edius also supports the X70 codec native from the beginning too. No transcoding needed with Edius for XAVC, XAVC-S, AVCHD etc.

Ron Evans

I have the perception that the FDR-AX1 is experimental camera. I say this because on Avid forum I start a little war against Ian Cook and lack of Xavc-s ama plug-in (which is necessary to import video files in Media Composer without transcoding). He replayed that xavc-s is a consumer codec (and Media Composer a professional programm) and when I pointed out of the existence of the AX1 he simply no answer me....

XAVC in it's different flavors is really more of a "format". The actual "CODEC" that is being used is simply your typical MPEG h.264. It completly follows the h.264 rule book.

As a CODEC, is h.264 considered "professional"? Sure...I'd say so!

We can all debate 8bit +10bit + long GOP Intra or isssues...but h.264 is a pro CODEC for sure.

Okay, what sw would one use to Edit the 4K?

And the bigger question is the delivery? I assume there is no physical media that uses this.

I today use Encore to author my BR into BR iso's that play on my set top boxes.
But I assume 4K would be wasted or does starting with better video make the BR better?

If one wants to stream, what format is used?

So many 4K questions meaning is a decent work flow ready?

You cannot manually control iris, shutter, gain all at same time. It states you can select one in manual and the others jump into auto mode. If this is the case then that's a deal breaker for me. However, this was a pre-production model so maybe the final version allows full manual.

I expect it is like my small Sony's. One can set shutter speed, then gain limit and use AE shift on the dial with zebra to set the exposure. Not quite full manual but close. The camera will use the shutter speed set and choose the best combination of iris and gain subject to the AE shift ( which is realtime control on the dial ) to get what one needs. This maximizes the performance of the lens and sensor. This is common Sony so I am surprised the Cinema5D guys did not know how to work this. You have to pay more if you want full control in 4K !!!

Ron Evans

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see a lot of chromatic aberration. But I did see relatively nice, clean images coming from what is essentially a consumer camcorder. Most consumers will not care about being able to adjust all the settings on the camera anyway.

As has been found with the AX100, SOME manual control is desirable and perhaps necessary for best results with 4K. Of course, longtime users of Sony "'consumer" cameras know a lot of "tricks" that no doubt will apply to the AX33.

I don't expect the small sensor 4K cameras will match the image quality of large sensor 4K cameras, but they may be "handy" for many things if they match well enough.

Earlier this week, I was playing with one in Best Buy, and I was pretty sure I was able to go full manual and control each aspect manually, but it required menu diving for each one. I'll have to go back to the store tomorrow during lunch and check it out again.

One can set shutter speed, then gain limit and use AE shift on the dial with zebra to set the exposure. Not quite full manual but close. The camera will use the shutter speed set and choose the best combination of iris and gain subject to the AE shift ( which is realtime control on the dial ) to get what one needs. This maximizes the performance of the lens and sensor.
Excellent explanation, Ron! I'd add that I can set a max level of the gain on the AX33, too. For example, when I want to work with a fixed 180 degree shutter I, set the shutter, then the camera calculates the iris, since the gain is maximized, and with the AE shift practically I have total control on the iris (shutter set, gain maximized). I simply cannot imagine a situation where, the AX33 wouldn't give me total control of the exposure. I think the Sony engineers made an excellently elegant and simple exposure system here, the only job for us is to experiment with it.
Thank you, Miki