Paul,
With these setting what do you set type to, e.g. revision or extract.
Regards Steve

Sorry Paul,
I reread the thread and found the answer. But just to make sure I have it right.
Black level 0
Gamma ITU709
Color Mode Cinematone 1
Color Phase +3
Color Correction as per your figures.

I have changed PP3 as a trial and will take it out for a test tomorrow. But looking at it in the house it does look very realistic. Also if I put the same figures into PP4 would it look identical to PP3.

Regards

Steve

You can put any settings into any PP number. The only time the number means anything, is if you do a "reset" of that PP, in which case, the camera will revive the original color mode profile for that number, say 709 for PP4.

An easy "test" of the color correction settings is to use that revision/extract menu, and simply toggle between off and revision while pointed at something with green or red in it. When I toggle on and off pointed at my DSC chart, not only do the vectorscope arms move, but you can see the red go from an orange color to a more red red. :)

I would recommend just entering ALL of the PP color correction changes into each profile. You can always set them to "off" in the menu, but at least you would be able to toggle to them presaved if ever you wanted to play around.

Paul

Thanks Paul, it does look heaps better and I have reset all the PP settings to the original and put the new settings in memory 2. Just to double check though with the gamma are they all meant to be set to ITU 709 or would it still work if I put them back to the default setting. It seems that the ITU709 takes out the contrast.

Regards

Steve

I dialed in the updated ITU709 settings, and they seem to help in daylight.
But when I recorded a concert recently, there is a distinct green tint in a certain range of skin tones. See attached (capture from Sony Catalyst Browse, unretouched). I had to correct this in Premiere with Three-way Color Corrector with a Secondary Color Correction mask applied.
Lighting was wonky theater, probably two different gelled 3200k lights, but none green. X70 was on manual, white balance was "A" push-to-set off a grey set piece. Gain was about +9db. 1080p, 35Mbps, xavc.
Thoughts?

Vincent

In the PP settings, you will find a G-M adjustment under white balance, as well as a R and B adjustment. I find for my gelled LED lighting, that I need a slight +2 magenta shift. Were you shooting under 3200k INCADESCENT lighting? The white balance and color shifts of the X70 are so bad, I recommended NEVER to use push to white for anything other than getting a KELVIN to put into the manual white setting.

The PP's were aligned with 3200k incandescent lighting. I shoot with them using a gelled 3200k LED with a +2 Magenta white balance shift.

Paul

They were tungsten. Probably the push-to-set WB was the issue. Looking back at a previous concert, where I manually set WB K, looks better.

Vincent

Yeah, most likely the culprit. Any slight "magenta" being emitted by the source light, whether it be reflected, or a gel attribute, would cause a GREEN SHIFT to be added to the X70 if you white balanced off of it. All of the PP's were done on 3200k incandescent. If you want to use them with LED, the recommendation would be to get the kelvin, set manual W/B to that kelvin, then go into the PP white balance menu and shift the green/magenta until you are pleased with the image. The good thing about the W/B PP menu is that there is a PAIR of them. m If you leave the R-B options empty, then you can in effect toggle your W/B shift modifications on and off by switching from LL-BC to R-B.

Paul

Thanks Paul, it does look heaps better and I have reset all the PP settings to the original and put the new settings in memory 2. Just to double check though with the gamma are they all meant to be set to ITU 709 or would it still work if I put them back to the default setting. It seems that the ITU709 takes out the contrast.

Regards

Steve

Changing the gamma modes and the color modes affect the colorimetry of the picture.......meaning the color correction settings would not be fully valid if altered. Then again, the color correction settings are merely to attempt to fix the worst 2 colors in each color mode, so nothing will ever look perfect. If you want to test colors by eye, use the EVF and not the LCD. The LCD is a bit green/yellow tint.

As for taking out the contrast, if you turn gamma off, you are basically crunching your blacks. If you are shooting a night scene, you will have almost all black everywhere. Maybe try leaving that gamma setting and adjusting the master black and black gamma settings to produce the effect you are after while retaining the color correction settings? :)

Paul

Paul,

Have you had the chance to play around more with your +7 Color Depth with -10 Saturation settings? What do you think? Are colors more accurate?

I'm shooting a classical voice recital on Sunday in a piano store recital hall (probably incandescent lighting). I'm thinking Cinematone 1 with your corrections and ITU709 gamma, and the +7/-10 Depth/Saturation trick, and indoor or manual Kelvin white balance. If I under expose 0.5 EV, should I get decent color out of the camera in this scenario?

Thanks,
Tom

*bump*

I get a lot of email inquiries, or (enquiries as you weirdos like to say!) looking for the custom color corrections, so wanted to keep this topic fresher than page 10!

Tom, sorry for the delay. I abandoned messing withe the depth settings, just sticking with color corrections and properly gelled lighting.

AND SPEAKING OF UK WEIRDOS!!!!! Anyone near London that can possibly help me pick up something and ship it to me in the US? Found something on eBay that is local pickup only, and is not sold or distributed new in the US. :-\

Send me a private message or email if you can assist. Thanks.

Paul

Getting close to putting out a new color correction settings recommendation. My previous REC709 one works better than the stock PP4 version, but I was always having green issues at high gain in dark, and cyan/green skies in early dawn. I went back and set my camera to Cinematone1 for gamma and color, and used the previously listed custom color settings for that. I have to say it looks MUCH better than REC709, at night and in the day. In pretty much every Sony camera I have, I am finding that even for direct to air, their REC709 settings have odd color problems and saturation.

For night and low light shooting at high gain, I recommend black gamma low +7. For daytime and low gain, I recommend black gamma high +7. High +7 at high gain will add a lot of noise to semi bright spots and dirties the entire image. The only alteration I have found beneficial to my previously listed Cinematone1 settings is to set hue at 0 instead of +3 Hue is a major irritation for me on the X70, as I can align the cameras red using a DSC test chart, but when shooting in the field it will want to be rotated over to pink, the +3. My previous recommendation to consider hue a FIELD ADJUSTABLE setting still stands. You will probably want to adjust it while pointing at something red, ensuring that it doesn't look pink or orangish. + hue moves red towards magenta (purple/pink), - values move reds toward yellow (orangish).

The video clips below were shot this morning using my listed Cinematone1 custom settings (with 0 hue) and AUTO white balance. All the colors came out true, the orange truck, the blue sky, the neon green vests, even the greens were accurate. It should be noted that if you mess with the white balance offset menu, +/- B or R or MG/G, this will invalidate the cameras AUTO white balance capability.

https://youtu.be/qlqVNyBEUmE

OK, maybe it's late, but...

...I can't see how to use Auto White Balance unless the whole camera is set to Auto - Iris, Gain, Shutter, etc. So you use Auto Exposure as well?

And, by Hue do you mean Color Phase?

Yes, phase means hue, sorry for the confusion. Hue is the consumer word for phase.

If you press the white balance button, the one that highlights the preset, kelvin, and lets you turn the dial to A or B, it will toggle the WB icon off, and you will be in auto white balance mode. So, to clarify, if you do not see a white balance preset, kelvin number, or A/B, you are in auto white balance mode.

Paul

Well I'll be damned - that works. I guess I had never tried punching the WHT BAL button more than once. And, I just checked and cannot find this anywhere in the manual. So, for those like me who need more of an explanation, when the camera master switch is set to Manual, if you keep hitting the WHT BAL button it continuously toggles back and forth between manual mode (the one where you can use the adjustment dial to select/store manual settings), and Auto White Balance.

Thanks for the info Paul!

No problem David.

And keep in mind that any altered settings under the PP menu for White Balance WILL affect the auto white balance. If you change your WB and add more magenta for instance, when you go to full auto white balance that magenta will be ADDED to whatever the auto white balance settles on.

Paul

Could you please advise me how to get as close as possible in picture profiles for two camera shoot Sony x70 and Sony Ex 1. Thank you in advance. Paul A. Thank you for your posts, could you suggest settings for Sony ex1 that could get close to your PRO. And ITU709 settings as you posted on page 1.

I owned an X180 and X200......I could get those to match by simply putting them on a vectorscope and my DSC Chart........the X70 will basically match......nothing? Perhaps if you put all the Sony's on standard stock settings they will match.........I know they all have green pushed WAY into YELLOW on the scope.

Paul

Let me clarify, I could get the X180 and X200 to match each other, but the X70 has so few color corrections available to make, that it can not really be matched very well........it also has only one chip, so you've got that issue as well.

Paul

Thank you Paul for sharing your X70 Picture Profile settings! I'm helping my buddy that just got the X70 and is not tech-savvy. We thought the picture looked really nice out of the box - until I loaded in your presets last night and toggled back and forth - wow, what a difference!! The default PP4 suddenly looked flat and gray in comparison to the richness of your profile.

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge here, really helped in the purchase decision. My friend gets amazing wildlife footage, but sadly it has all been miniDV up until now. Excited to see what he can capture in HD and 4K with the X70 going forward.

Thanks again!

Jeff Pulera
Digital Vision

I am glad you like and can see the difference, using my little PP. :-D

I know i am always overjoyed when I find simple settings hidden in forums for things I own, that make them completely different and better, so I like to be able to "pay it forward".

Paul

For night and low light shooting at high gain, I recommend black gamma low +7. For daytime and low gain, I recommend black gamma high +7. High +7 at high gain will add a lot of noise to semi bright spots and dirties the entire image.

https://youtu.be/qlqVNyBEUmE
Hi Paul,
I want to setup a PP according to your CINEMATONE 1 setting. I do understand your recommended night/low light and daytime Black Gamma settings. With that being said, I have a question in regards to Black Gamma settings for indoor use for example; Hall, gymnasium & general indoor lighting. I realize that lighting plays a very important part in regards to gain. Have you found a good setting in these type of situations and/or a good starting point? I'm thinking that setting the Range at Middle with the Level at or around +2 with a little gain may be a good starting point. I'd like to add, I normally shoot in 4k. Thanks for your huge contribution to this forum..... I've have learned an enormous amount from you and for that I sincerely appreciate it. Thanks again, Ray

Since I cannot depend on having time to grade in post, I try to work my settings to deliver aceptable images right out of the camera.....I do a lot of live work, so that is important. I think it's fairly easy to go and mess with the black gamma settings on a scene by scene basis, adjusting your lows and mids to suit your lighting conditions, and how intense your highlights are. The PP button is pretty easy to dig into, and that thumb toggle is a joy to operate. One suggestion I have is to copy the same PP into every slot, and have a variable changed in each one........say black gamma low on 1, then black gamma high on 2, etc, so that you can simply scroll a change to a PP item according to the changes in your anticipated scenes.

I am finding for ENG, that black gamma low +7, with Chris Youngs knee settings, brings the highs down, and the lows up, but keeps the meaty middle normal, so I can more easily simply expose to the eye, and trust that the extremes are being kept in check as best as possible. :)

Paul

Thanks for the quick reply.... I'm also trying to get the best right out of camera as you are without having to work heavily in post.
Your suggestion sounds really good. I'm going to copy PP4 to PP1 thru PP3 for three different settings for your CINEMATONE 1 setting as follows;
PP1 - Daytime & Low Gain: Black Gamma High +7
PP2 - Night & Low Light shooting at high gain: Black Gamma Low +7
PP3 - Change Black Gamma accordingly for most of my indoor shooting yet to be determined.

As always, Thank You for the great advice! Ray :-)

Copy and pasting PP's is also a good way to do back to back comparisons of any setting you want to see at more than one step increments..........say you want to set PP1 to max and PP2 to minimum detail, and toggle the selections.

Paul

Copy and pasting PP's is also a good way to do back to back comparisons of any setting you want to see at more than one step increments..........say you want to set PP1 to max and PP2 to minimum detail, and toggle the selections.

Paul

Yes....... works great toggling the selections. Great tip!! Went to my grandsons graduation over the weekend which was in a gymnasium. Lighting was average, but.......I shot in 4k and used your CINEMATONE 1 setting with Black Gamma set at +2 High, manual white balance, Iris f5.6 with Gain 18dB. I was concerned about the gain, but the shoot turned out, in a word, Awesome!! I was very surprised with that amount of gain that there wouldn't be some grain. I also shot some partly cloudy outside video as well, I used your Daytime & Low Gain CINEMATONE 1 setting with 0 Gain...... Once again, Awesome!! I can't thank you enough for all your tips and help!! Thanks again, Ray :-)

I have been running a new full time PP for ENG night, based on my STANDARD profile color correction settings. Running those color settings and mode, but with REC709 gamma. So far, I am liking it better than my old standby REC709 PP4 color corrected settings. The colors are much more accurate, and require practically no correction in post when shooting mixed lighting at night, something really tough for these single chip cameras with no multi matrix adjustments. I am posting below some footage i just shot, exported with no color corrections in post, this is how it looks out of the camera, live even. The white balance was a little cold, and was around 4000k for my LED, so that is the yellow tint you see from the car headlights. My primary means of evaluating color corrections at night, is believe it or not, police lights! When you see these every single night, you tend to notice in clips when the color is off.

If you have been using my REC709 settings with success, give these a try and switch back and forth to see if you think the STANDARD color correction values are an improvement. I should mention, I turned off correction value 2 for green, just running RED correction on this. This was hot on Z150, but the PP and settings are fully compatible between cameras.

https://youtu.be/d5_EaQvfdQM

Paul, I have tried to view your latest sample but the link says this video is "private". HUH?

By the way. I would be great if you could link to a recap of all your latest profiles!!!

I really appreciate the work you have done and I have passed it along to my friends.

Paul, the same for me, I think you've ticked 'private' in YT by mistake

Yep can't see the video. And, where are the new changes you refer to? Are they noted in the video?

Meant to tick UNLISTED. Uploaded a 4K test clip with the new profile.......I didn't color correct it at all, or grade it, this is right out of the camera shot under those ugly weird green/blue/cyan street light. I hate those things!

https://youtu.be/J1htHTB-dyI

Hi Paul, Your video won't upload.......

Which one are you trying to playback? It might have been switched to private, let me reenable it for playback.

Paul

The last one you posted above. ^^

Unlocked :-)

Thanks. Working now.

FEBRUARY 2020 UPDATE

New REC709 Picture Profile I created using my new vectorscope and DSC Camalign chart. Settings used for this video are below. Feel free to modify the black gamma and saturation to your liking. -6 black level sets the black to actual 0IRE on the waveform. (was shot on Z90, but settings are cross compatible with the X70 and Z150)

BLACK LEVEL: -6

GAMMA: ITU709

BLACK GAMMA: HIGH 0

KNEE: MANUAL 87.5%, SLOPE -2

COLOR MODE: ITU709 MATRIX

SATURATION: 0

COLOR PHASE: 0

COLOR DEPTH: R+3, G+3, B+2, C+2, M+3, Y+3

COLOR CORRECTION: COLOR REVISION

MEMORY SELECTION: 1&2

MEMORY1 COLOR: 15, 6, 0

MEMORY1 REVISION: -6, 0

MEMORY2 COLOR: 0, 9, 0

MEMORY2 REVISION: +4, -1

WHITE BALANCE SHIFT: 0, 0, 0, 0

DETAIL LEVEL: 0

MANUAL SET: ON

V/H BALANCE: 0

B/W BALANCE: TYPE1

LIMIT: 7

CRISPENING: 0

HI-LIGHT DETAIL: 0

Thank you,
is long time,i tested lot of profiles. But for me is best not touch any color correction. X70 in default color is lot of neutral with cold white balance. So my setting give me more saturation and white balance is go to warm color. All colors looks good on colorchecker. No used any calibration utilities.Try it ifyou want.

BLACK LEVEL: -3
GAMMA: ITU709
BLACK GAMMA: HIGH 0
KNEE: MANUAL 87.5%, SLOPE -2
COLOR MODE: ITU709 MATRIX
SATURATION: +5
COLOR PHASE: 0
COLOR DEPTH: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
COLOR CORRECTION: OFF
WHITE BALANCE SHIFT: LB-CC, +3, 0, 0, 0
DETAIL LEVEL: +3
MANUAL SET: ON
V/H BALANCE: 0
B/W BALANCE: TYPE1
LIMIT: 7
CRISPENING: 0
HI-LIGHT DETAIL: 0

Unlocked :-)

Those videos must have gone to "private" again.

Andrew