Ok So I went and filmed the Fashion Show and here is my results. Other than the focus issue when I tried to bring in the speaker. I notice that the faces on the light complected women are washed out. What Adjustment did i need to make on my EA50 to prevent this next time? I was using my Canon 17-50mm f/2.8. I added Denoiser to get rid of most of the grain (There was not a lot by the way). I also have a Magic Bullet color tweak to darken the environment a bit to give a little more of a dramatic look.

WALK 10th Edition Fashion Show | ILE Videos (http://www.ilevideos.com/?p=3106)

I think it's mainly overexposure, the ea50 doesn't handle highlights very well so you need to get your exposure right, the lights at that show also can give harsh contrasts so you might be better of using a preset that doesn't crush the blacks so much.

Hi Aaron

For me the link takes me to a blank screen with a progress bar than goes on and one and on!! I got tired of waiting.

What profile were you using? You also might have to kick in PP3 and then use negative EV values cos the camera is exposing on a huge black background probably so it wants lots of light which washes out the much better lit faces. If you have zebras at 90% on light areas then you are over-exposing!!

Pity the video doesn't run for me!

Chris

ouch that was bad. probably better of using AE.... i have used in uneven lighting and has panned out quite well....

Can you post some video of the source media?

Hi Aaron,
That shoot was a classic painful but common mistake. Your result has nothing to do with the characteristics of the EA50 or any other camera. First of all your overall scene was way beyond the exposure latitude of any camera. And your subjects were in the brightest light of all. It looked to me like you exposed for the scene instead of the subject. Camera meters and auto functions read every scene as “average” you need to know when you are not shooting an average scene, you had a common but extreme stage lighting scenario. The model in the pure white skirt was completely blown out. Clipping like that is irreversible.

Here is what I would do. I would never expose that scene with ANY auto functions activated. I shoot most things manually anyway. I would also know to expose for the subject (including high lights) and not worry about anything else. I would also know that the camera is going to be fooled by that lighting and every exposure tool it has will be wrong except one…..Zebra Stripes. Zebra stripes measure the reflectance of light on the IRE scale from black to white. They are not averaging the whole scene. They take some experience to get a feel for but they are awesome.

I don’t have time right now to explain them in detail but here are the basics. As a rule of thumb an average Caucasian facial skin tone should show zebra stripes on the highlights if they are set to 70 or 80 IRE and you have your exposure set correctly. There is more to it than that but that is the old starting point. A common misunderstanding is to think that everything above your set point will have stripes, it won’t. If you choose 80% then they will stripe areas in the frame that are around 80% IRE, nothing above and nothing less. They are a guide and a great tool but they take practice and an understanding of how they work. I hope this helps Aaron. Learn the stripes and then learn how to use them along with the histogram. I can write more later.

Noa, he crushed the blacks in post on purpose because he overexposed.

Steve

i want to reiterate that AE works well when you are working with uneven lighting. if i have time i will post a shoot i did with AE last week. subject was walking all over the place, basically going from bright lights to dim lights and thankfully i had AE, did a decent job adjusting....

Can you post some video of the source media?

Hi Chris, I dropped all the effects off the models including the denoiser. Here is a youtube link of raw models on the runway:

Fashion show - NoEffect - YouTube


ouch that was bad. probably better of using AE.... i have used in uneven lighting and has panned out quite well....

Hi Joel,

I have A, What did you do to even the light in AE?

Hi Aaron

For me the link takes me to a blank screen with a progress bar than goes on and one and on!! I got tired of waiting.

What profile were you using? You also might have to kick in PP3 and then use negative EV values cos the camera is exposing on a huge black background probably so it wants lots of light which washes out the much better lit faces. If you have zebras at 90% on light areas then you are over-exposing!!

Hi Chris,

I was not using a profile at all.

Hi Aaron,
That shoot was a classic painful but common mistake. Your result has nothing to do with the characteristics of the EA50 or any other camera. First of all your overall scene was way beyond the exposure latitude of any camera. And your subjects were in the brightest light of all. It looked to me like you exposed for the scene instead of the subject. Camera meters and auto functions read every scene as “average” you need to know when you are not shooting an average scene, you had a common but extreme stage lighting scenario. The model in the pure white skirt was completely blown out. Clipping like that is irreversible.

Here is what I would do. I would never expose that scene with ANY auto functions activated. I shoot most things manually anyway. I would also know to expose for the subject (including high lights) and not worry about anything else. I would also know that the camera is going to be fooled by that lighting and every exposure tool it has will be wrong except one…..Zebra Stripes. Zebra stripes measure the reflectance of light on the IRE scale from black to white. They are not averaging the whole scene. They take some experience to get a feel for but they are awesome.

I don’t have time right now to explain them in detail but here are the basics. As a rule of thumb an average Caucasian facial skin tone should show zebra stripes on the highlights if they are set to 70 or 80 IRE and you have your exposure set correctly. There is more to it than that but that is the old starting point. A common misunderstanding is to think that everything above your set point will have stripes, it won’t. If you choose 80% then they will stripe areas in the frame that are around 80% IRE, nothing above and nothing less. They are a guide and a great tool but they take practice and an understanding of how they work. I hope this helps Aaron. Learn the stripes and then learn how to use them along with the histogram. I can write more later.

Noa, he crushed the blacks in post on purpose because he overexposed.

Steve

Hi Steve, Thanks for the advice... I did not use zebra at all on this one and it bit me pretty good. From where i was sitting it was hard to see that i was overexposed in the Viewfinder unitil I got home and looked at the footage. When i render out it makes the washed out faces worse, LOL! I was in MF Focus and i was using peaking if that matters...

For sure its overexposed to the hot side. The skin tones are getting up into the KNEE area and that is part of what makes them look like that. Whats making this worse is that its oversaturated by a good bit. In that render the chroma channels are all clipped. That could be the render or it could be how the camera is setup. I can't tell for sure without seeing the video straight out of the camera.

If you want to send me a clip to take a look at feel free to drop me a note offline. I'd be happy to take a look at it and give you some thoughts.

Hi Chris,

That would be awesome. I'm really not sure how to handle an instance like this. Seeing this what adjustments would you have made with the cam to keep this from happening?

Hey Aaron

PP3 profile and if you are using auto expose then set an ev of around -1 stop ..the camera is seeing the massive black curtain and needs lots of light to expose it correctly so the faces are blown out. I think I would have gone the manual iris route, make sure you have no zebras on the faces at 90% and also limit gain to 18db

Chris

Hi Chris,

That would be awesome. I'm really not sure how to handle an instance like this. Seeing this what adjustments would you have made with the cam to keep this from happening?

Hi Aaron,

I have read all of your posts and been to your site. You are asking a lot of good questions. For this video I hope you don't miss the point (everyone is saying) that the camera settings that mater here are exposure control. First and foremost it is over exposed. Picture profiles and other custom settings will not do you any good unless the fundamentals are correct.

Steve

Aaron, you can see the 3 camera shoot i did a week ago with AE... iso was auto as well but maxed @ iso2000, i think.. as you see the subject gets a little over exposed in some areas but nothing too bad (she has very fair skin and cheeks often are too exposed), this venue has the worst lighting, good lighting only in one small area which makes shoots like this a mess... trying out AE and Auto ISO for the first time was a huge improvement and actually was able to broadcast...

Live "church service" this show is broadcast weekly on the Word Network

http://youtu.be/hxS0LfJtLTs?t=5m24s

Joel

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your advice it is always appreciated and well received. My question is what is the proper way to adjust the exposure. From what I am gathering from this thread i could have used Zebra and adjusted mt aperture accordingly.

Hi Joel,

I'm sorry i misunderstood your first post. I was under the impression that your were talking about After Effects when you mentioned AE. I thought you were saying that it could be fixed by using After Effects. I now see you were talking about a setting in the camera.

Hi Aaron

I had a wedding on Saturday which had much the same situation as your shoot too. The venue walls were BLACK and I had a speech maker standing behind a BLACK lectern!!! As you can imagine the camera "sees" 90% black background and then a lit persons head for the remaining 10% of the image. The camera will obviously try to expose for the complete scene so the blacks are exposed correctly with lots of noise as the gain screams upwards and of course the person's face, like your situation, is totally blown out.

Here's what I do and STILL run the camera in full auto but with a manual lens.

Stage 1 : You need the camera to firstly expose the background correctly so it remains black and not full of noise speckles! Set your gain limit to an absolute maximum of 21db (it shouldn't ever be higher anyway)
If you shoot the background and check out the video you will see that the background is nicely exposed by the camera BUT lit faces are still blown out.

Stage 2 : Assign your EV value option on the camera to a button on the camera (that's the 6 buttons in front of the audio panel) Mine is set to Button 2. You need it so when you push the button the LCD shows an EV value at the left bottom corner of the screen.

Stage 3 : Set your zebras to 90% and keep them on ALL the time

On the shoot look at the scene and you should have the background slightly over exposed and any faces badly over exposed as your video has shown. The faces will also have zebra stripes all over them as will any light clothing as the camera is screaming for more light due to the black curtains.

Now hit your assigned EV button and use the SEL/PUSH/EXEC wheel to change your exposure value to a negative ....as you turn the wheel and the EV goes into minus numbers you will also see the zebras start to vanish from faces and white clothing .... !! It's as easy as that!!

Obviously if you are shooting normally lit rooms later you just turn the EV off using your assigned button.

Pete Rush also uses this for abnormally lit situations and it works a treat!!

Chris

I only use the AE function in situations where I have to run unmanned camera's and where the light conditions change throughout a recording. But for the camera that I operate the AE function is not a substitute for exposure control. Maybe I am old school but I always get the best results when I manually adjust the exposure. I use the zebra's and/or histogram to judge if I"m right. This has always worked well with all my camera's, I only had some start up issues with my gh4 to get the exposure, especially on faces, just right but after some use and experimenting with presets and zebra settings I can nail it every time now.

Each to their own Noa

I prefer to use the EV enabled and on the wheel because using the aperture ring on the adapter means I might change my DOF (if I have to open the lens) just enough for me to lose focus and not realise it. If you use the iris then you also need to check focus very carefully too, especially if you are making the DOF smaller!!

Using the EV wheel your aperture (and focus) remain untouched and locked in and all you are changing is ISO/Gain or shutter speed slightly.

I prefer not to mess up my DOF range and both do the same job!

Chris

What has focus to do with changing the iris? If your focus is correct and locked, changing the iris doesn't have an effect on that. If you loose focus and don't realise it means you are shooting in automode which is asking for problems on a camera that has a larger sensor, just like letting your camera decide what the exposure should be autofocus can result to the same problem.

AE = Auto Exposure.. :)

Well, the fashion show host liked my video enough to post it on their facebook as a showcase, even though I felt bad it turned out the way it did. I have learned how to make the necessary adjustments thanks to all of you guys. I really appreciate your help. I'm asked to do the next one so I'm sure I will have a better product.

Hi Aaron
Now hit your assigned EV button and use the SEL/PUSH/EXEC wheel to change your exposure value to a negative ....as you turn the wheel and the EV goes into minus numbers you will also see the zebras start to vanish from faces and white clothing .... !! It's as easy as that!!
Chris

Great directions, Chris. I had to get my camera and try it. One thing is missing in your directions, though—the auto/manual button HAS to be set on auto for this to work, but the Auto Focus/Manual button HAS to be st to manual, otherwise you can't scroll with the wheel.

At least that's with the stock lens. Perhaps this is not needed with a manual lens.

I am with Noa. I am in manual ninety percent of the time.


My old school photography days greatly influence my video shooting. Aperture/iris and shutter settings are not just about exposure to me. I understand exposure well enough to get it right. Then I manually choose the settings I want because of there effects on the look of the image. That is what separates the EA50 from three chip cameras, more creative control.

I think there are some guys on this forum with rudimentary skills that are looking for advise from us veterans and getting confused by what they read because forum posts offer snippets of the big picture. Rule number one of any forum is do not believe everything you read. Especially if it is from me!!!

Steve

do not believe everything you read. Especially if it is from me!!!

You should add that as a signature :)

I have no issue using the "auto" benefits on my camera's, in some occasions they can get better results and faster then when I would do it manually, then I"m only talking about my small sensor handicams which have front to back sharpness when I shoot wide open, they are almost idiot proof and when you are working under high time pressure and need to get a shot right in a blink of an eye the automode will get it right 90% of the time but can bite you real hard the other 10% and that percentage rises much higher with larger sensor camera's combined with fast lenses

My experience is that you should learn to control your camera manually so you will have full control on what you plan to achieve, I have read enough posts from people asking why their color, exposure, focus etc is off and that's because they often let their camera decide on those settings and then wonder why it's not right.

If you dial it all in yourself you will learn it's you that decides how the outcome will be and you will learn what effects the combination of shutter, nd's, iso and focus have on the actual image and you will understand better what you need to do to get it right. Once you know the ins and outs of your camera you can decide better under which conditions you can let it go on it's own and when it goes wrong, you will understand why.

I'm on manual focus 100% of the time cos that's what happens with manual lenses. Yes, I use the AE to give me a ball park exposure and at least if things are moving fast, I am close to what I want! If something is going on at a wedding and I fiddle around with exposure I could quite easily miss it. If it's a slow moving event like speeches I will start in AE and then tweak the expose using zebras and either the manual iris ring on the adapter or the EV wheel. If the bride suddenly yells "Quick, quick, film this" I would rather have the footage even if exposure isn't perfect than miss it cos I was getting the exposure perfect. On Realty and Commercial shoots I have plenty of time so I can make sure everything looks good!!