Interesting cameras from JVC. I was expecting the LS300, but not the other two compact cameras.

JVC Launches Three 4K Handheld Cameras at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/jvc-launches-three-4k-handheld-cameras.html)

Order on B&H:

LS300 - $4,450 (no lens)

HM200 - $2,995

HM170 - $2,495


More info:

Just Announced: Three New 4KCAM Video Cameras from JVC | explora (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/news/just-announced-three-new-4kcam-video-cameras-jvc)

The HM models will be out in Feb, 2015, the LS in march.

Yes, I've been on an NDA on the LS300 for a while........the one thing I did not know was the price.....$4450 msrp! Wow, it has pretty much everything. Way to go JVC! and way to go Craig Yanagi, JVC's national sales manager and one of our contributors here at DVinfo......"coming to a theater near you in March.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Wheeee.

The HM200 looks really nice.
They have changed many of those little things I've been missing on the HM150. Like the top handle control, two control rings besides the 4K and higher bitrate HD and 422.

I've been eyeing both the X70 as well as the XF-200 even though it's only HD but will really look out for the reviews for the HM200 and see how it performs against the Sony.

Links in first post updated -- many thanks for starting this, Glen!

I am friends with Craig on LinkedIn and he didn't send me that NDA. Oh well. Interested to see JVC in the game here! Lotsa new camera from everyone...

The B&H website says the HM200 comes with Timecode and Genlock ports. It sure doesn't look like there's enough room on the body for that, plus the SDI and HDMI ports.

I'm glad JVC isn't playing 4k codec games with these cameras. They are going straight to 150Mbp/s H.264 on cheap SDXC cards. Even Lumix is offering 100Mbp/s on it's $900 consumer cameras. BRAVO guys!

Lumix LX100 - 100 mbps
Lumix FZ1000 - 100 mbps
Lumix GH4 - 100+ mbps
JVC LS300 - 150 Mbps
JVC HM200 - 150 Mbps
JVC HM170 - 150 Mbps
Sony AX100 - 60 Mbps
Sony X70 - Unknown

What is my beloved Sony doing?....a lowly 60Mbp/s. This looks "ok" if you don't need to grade it. However, if you try to stretch or bend that Sony codec, it breaks apart extremely fast. It is a very "fragile" codec in post with that low of a bit rate.

I really hope that Sony looks at it's competition and decides to give the X70 a bare minimum of 100Mbp/s. And,...moving forward with new models, Sony should give ALL it's new 4k cameras as minimum of 100Mbp/s. Doing any less would really be a disgrace considering that their competition can do 150Mbp/s over SDXC cards. I would expect that 150Mbp/s would be very durable in moderate 8 bit color grading. (yes, we know that 10bit would be the proper bit-depth for real grading)

Again,...Bravo to JVC and Panasonic for putting a respectable codec even in their cheapest 4K models!

CT

P.S. Sony, please give 100mbp/s to your new RX20 (or RX10 mkII) and let 60Mbp/s be just a space saving option.

Cliff, data rate and codec may not tell the whole story.
H.264 can be Intraframe as well as 422 10 bit GOP. Without that information, data rate and codec are extremely incomplete information.
And consumer versions are usually 420 8 bit.

I haven't seen any news about it, does that mean the US isn't getting the GW-SP100 (http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/jvc_gw-sp100e) remote head version of the LS300?

Cliff, data rate and codec may not tell the whole story.
H.264 can be Intraframe as well as 422 10 bit GOP. Without that information, data rate and codec are extremely incomplete information.
And consumer versions are usually 420 8 bit.

You are correct.

I'm pointing my post at Sony. I'm asking them to match their competition and bring a bare minimum of 100Mbps 4:2:0 Long GOP 8bit to all of their future 4K cameras. Sony clearly now can't use the excuse that SDXC cards cant handle 100Mbps....especially when everybody else is doing it now.

I suspect that Sony was thinking it would leave 60Mbps as their "consumer" codec to separate them from Sony's higher products.

I'm hoping that Panasonic and JVC will force Sony to raise it to 100mbps to match them.

The LS300 is the most interesting upcoming camera to me at the moment. I've been scouring the internet for some footage from it but it doesn't seem to exist. Has anyone come across anything? Even all the news died around November 14th.

AFAIK...there is no footage. I've contacted my friend, the top person at JVC and have asked for a working camera to shoot some footage. I expect we'll have a camera a month or so ahead of the March delivery. If we can get it sooner, we'll jump on it.

Jim Martin
EVSonline

There's this footage that was uploaded for NAB and it's from a 4k S35 sensor. It could give us a little orientation of what can we expect.
AltaSens 4K Super-35 Sensor Demo - YouTube

Our next stop with the GY-LS300 and GY-HM200 prototypes will be at the New York Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival. The New York Lounge will be located at 751 Main St., Park City, UT, and JVC will be there from January 23rd to the 26th. This will be an opportunity to get up close to the camcorders, and we will have a number of lenses to show with the GY-LS300, including Olympus and Rokinon. We're currently looking through some mounting accessories as well, and will have some at the event.

The JVC Camcorders will also be used to stream sessions being held in the lounge. I'll post the viewing sites once they become available.

- Craig

PS: Videomaker Magazine awarded the GY-LS300 as the "Best Camcorder of CES 2015": JVC GY-LS300 4K - Best Camcorder at CES 2015 | Videomaker.com (http://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2015/01/jvc-gy-ls300-4k-best-camcorder-at-ces-2015)

Glen, what are your thoughts on the LS300 compared to the current competition?

Glen, what are your thoughts on the LS300 compared to the current competition?

Um, are you referring to me? If so, I have no special insights on the cameras. I merely relayed the info to you guys.

But as far as a comparisons to the LS300, there really aren't any. The LS300 is in a class by itself. 4K, S35 sensor, M43 mount, 150mb data rate, SD card media, all in a very compact body. And for around $4,500. Its closest competitors would be the FS700 (with external recorder) and the FS7, and neither can get close to the 300's price.
The 4K internal codec for the LS300 may not be ideal for broadcast purposes (I really have no idea), but it can also be hooked up to an external recorder, if need be. It looks like it can record internal HD in 50mbps, 4:2:2.

Personally, I like the cheaper HM200. I don't mind fixed lens cameras.

Our next stop with the GY-LS300 and GY-HM200 prototypes will be at the New York Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival. The New York Lounge will be located at 751 Main St., Park City, UT, and JVC will be there from January 23rd to the 26th. This will be an opportunity to get up close to the camcorders, and we will have a number of lenses to show with the GY-LS300, including Olympus and Rokinon. We're currently looking through some mounting accessories as well, and will have some at the event.

The JVC Camcorders will also be used to stream sessions being held in the lounge. I'll post the viewing sites once they become available.

- Craig

PS: Videomaker Magazine awarded the GY-LS300 as the "Best Camcorder of CES 2015": JVC GY-LS300 4K - Best Camcorder at CES 2015 | Videomaker.com (http://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2015/01/jvc-gy-ls300-4k-best-camcorder-at-ces-2015)

Thanks for the info. I'd love to see some sample footage (particularly from the smaller-chipped cameras), if you've got any URLs you could share....

We are planning on shooting footage once we have the finalized versions of the camcorders. We'll be sure to make an announcement here when they become available.

Cordially,

Craig, does the second lens ring control iris or zoom (or is it switchable)?

There's nothing more fiddly than trying to adjust iris on the fly using a tiddly little thumbwheel which I note the new cams have :-(

I've never used a zoom ring in my life, only ever the rocker or a lanc remote for zoom.

Regards
David

We'll be sure to make an announcement here when they become available.


Looking forward to it Craig. I for one am very interested in these cameras.

A look at the JVC GY HM200 on VIDEOAKTIV. JVC GY-HM200: 4K-Prototypen-Test bei VIDEOAKTIV - YouTube

The interview with JVC's Semir Nouri is in German, but there are several shots from the HM200 at the end. I am really hoping that the interview was not shot with this camera.

I saw this today, an attempt at a story shot with the GY-LS300...

JVC GY-LS300 Large Sensor camcorder | Delimex (http://www.delimex.be/nl/jvc-gy-ls300-large-sensor-camcorder/)

The highs seem to blow pretty quickly, and have a yellow/lemon cast... looks like sharpening was way up on the camera. Doesn't look too noisy, but who knows what ASA it was shot at?

The still grabs look better than the 1080p YouTube. Not going to pass judgment one way or another on this single example and would like to see more... I've seen worse from better, and better from worse... but overall it feels quite rec709 "video" at this point.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

I'd hold judgement until the production line prototypes start showing up...my guess, the later half of February. All the few cameras that are out there now are proto-prototypes. We're looking forward to seeing the cameras and checking them out, putting them through there paces, and finding out where this camera's DNA is.......more in the Canon, Alexa, Panasonic direction or more in the Sony, RED direction. I'm not saying what is better, it's just that many of you out there know those cameras and as a reference point, can better tell where this camera is going to land.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Agreed Jim, and I said as such in my comment on the footage. Actually, JVC has my money if they can cross a surprisingly low bar:

...I'm not looking for a cutting edge digital cinema camera, but a small form factor VIDEO camera (with video camera creature comforts) for interviews and long format production, one that can deliver shallow DOF, and has built in ND's, a quality internal codec for 1080p broadcast and 4K at a modest bit-rate for archiving is a nice bonus. 10 to 12 stops is all I'm allowing myself to hope for, and that's enough for me if the sensor is clean.

If someone told me the stills on that link came from a 14 year old F900, I would have believed it. They are that similar to my eyes. That's either a nice compliment for a $4,500 dollar camera, or a slap in the face, depending on your point of view about how fast tech changes, and your particular needs.

I've had the good fortune to work with single-digit (or no) serial number cameras such as the F3, the C500, and last seasons GH4. To the camera, what you refer to as the "DNA" was already set in stone, only menu issues and overall stability changed going to the production models. Of course the creators of this video probably only had a very limited time with the camera, and whatever controls to tame the image to any sort of "cinema" expectations were probably un-explored.

We'll see, and I look forward to your tests and conclusions. Please keep us informed!

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

Here is the presentation I gave on the GY-LS300 at Sundance: Sundance NY Lounge on USTREAM: The NY Lounge located at 751 Main St. in Park City in the middle of the Sundance Film Festival. . Conference (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sundance-ny-lounge)

- Craig

Craig, thank you so much for sharing the presentation.

One question...

... I'm assuming that UHD is only recorded when using the full S35mm size of the sensor... and that you will be scaling various smaller areas of the sensor for 16mm lenses or micro four thirds lenses, etc. When shooting with these lenses with smaller image circles, is the maximum resolution always taken to 1080p?

Finally, any chance you could just bump up the bit rate to 200Mb/sec for UHD? 150Mb/sec is certainly nicer than 100Mb/sec, but 200 is still SD card capable, and would be the sweet spot for users to question needing an external 4K recorder.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

Getting pretty excited about this camera. Did anyone else panic a little bit with they changed lenses with the sensor active and exposed? Is that a no no or am I unnecessarily freaking out a bit?

Craig, first I'd like to say thanks and great job with the presentation. I'm sure this is exactly what I want and need. Many forum members have been waiting for something similar to this camera from Panasonic (a follow up to the AF100). We didn't get that from Panasonic, but I personally believe this is what we were waiting for and good to know it's coming from JVC.

As far as marketing this camera, I would suggest an early promotion directed toward the Panasonic AF100 users. Many of these users are now using the Canon C100 or the Panasonic GH4. What JVC is now offering (with the GY-LS300) is what we really want.

Please suggest to your marketing team, a special promotion geared toward the forum readers of this and other forums. Maybe a pre-order special price or ??? I would make it as easy as possible to get as many on board with this camera. I'd start right here, with the actual end users!

It's kinda hard to get excited by the LS300, with its rolling shutter and fairly narrow dynamic range.

Craig, thank you so much for sharing the presentation.

One question...

... I'm assuming that UHD is only recorded when using the full S35mm size of the sensor... and that you will be scaling various smaller areas of the sensor for 16mm lenses or micro four thirds lenses, etc. When shooting with these lenses with smaller image circles, is the maximum resolution always taken to 1080p?

Finally, any chance you could just bump up the bit rate to 200Mb/sec for UHD? 150Mb/sec is certainly nicer than 100Mb/sec, but 200 is still SD card capable, and would be the sweet spot for users to question needing an external 4K recorder.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

That's two questions, but that's okay.

Yes, when shooting with 16mm lenses the limitation is HD recording, but MFT can be recorded in 4K.

Regarding the 4K bit rate, it is one that we have been working on with the NLE companies for compatibility.

I hope this information is helpful, and thanks very much for your support!

- Craig

Craig, first I'd like to say thanks and great job with the presentation. I'm sure this is exactly what I want and need. Many forum members have been waiting for something similar to this camera from Panasonic (a follow up to the AF100). We didn't get that from Panasonic, but I personally believe this is what we were waiting for and good to know it's coming from JVC.

As far as marketing this camera, I would suggest an early promotion directed toward the Panasonic AF100 users. Many of these users are now using the Canon C100 or the Panasonic GH4. What JVC is now offering (with the GY-LS300) is what we really want.

Please suggest to your marketing team, a special promotion geared toward the forum readers of this and other forums. Maybe a pre-order special price or ??? I would make it as easy as possible to get as many on board with this camera. I'd start right here, with the actual end users!

Thank you very much for your kind words! We've been working very hard these past few years to put the 4KCAM line together, and you can see how the GY-LS300 is special to us.

We are working with our resellers to provide professionals like yourself with a special incentive. Stay tuned... and thank you for your ongoing support!

- Craig

Hi Craig,
Any thoughts on "special incentives" for the GY HM200, like maybe some break for the HM150 users. I bought the 150 when it was first introduced and in a matter of months it was $1,000 less. I felt abused to say the least but I suppose that's just the way it goes. I am still using the 150 but am looking to upgrade and it seems that the HM200 camera might fit my needs.
I have been a JVC user for 35 years and I am happy to see JVC making a splash. Thanks.

Just spotted this new video with the LS300, posted by CVP here in the UK...

JVC GY-LS300 "Little Sexy" - YouTube

Regards

Wow, I don't remember how long since it's been since I've seen highlights blown out that badly. Reminds me of DV days.

Not sure if that is a problem with the camera, lenses, the way it was shot or any grading done, but that video makes me want to stay away.

Hmm yes! My thoughts were heading the same way. Really blown highlights. Always hard to tell on the Tube so will wait to see it in the flesh I guess. Somewhere I saw some pics of some of the menus and one had a two selection choice something like 'Video or Cinema.' No mention of profiles, log modes etc. Wonder what it will offer for $4.5K. Interesting!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Was all set to purchase the Sony PXW-X70 until I found out about this HM200. Sounds like a very interesting camera for me. I shoot the occasional interview, plays, concerts, marketing videos, etc. I would like to get into Live Streaming in the future, and the built in streaming looks great. A couple questions if anyone knows,comparing the two-

1. Not a lot of info out there on the HM200, a pdf manual would be nice if anyone runs across.

2. Low light capabilities - very importent for my needs. Which cam is better?

3. For the X70, I was gonna purchase a Teradek Cube. That would put the cost way above the HM200. Does the HM200 do the same as the built in streaming as the X70? I would like to stream to a CDN, as well as stream privately somehow directly to our local tv stations for the occasional live shot. I know the cube can do this, not sure about the HM200.

The LS300 has a very nice feature set, though I'm wondering if it will record any frame rates above 60p even at lower resolutions, or would this be possible with a future firmware update?

Any info on when it will start shipping?

Thanks.

A couple questions if anyone knows,comparing the two-

1. Not a lot of info out there on the HM200, a pdf manual would be nice if anyone runs across.

2. Low light capabilities - very importent for my needs. Which cam is better?

3. For the X70, I was gonna purchase a Teradek Cube. That would put the cost way above the HM200. Does the HM200 do the same as the built in streaming as the X70? I would like to stream to a CDN, as well as stream privately somehow directly to our local tv stations for the occasional live shot. I know the cube can do this, not sure about the HM200.

The first two questions should be answered when the camcorder starts shipping, which should be by NAB.

As for the third question, both the GY-HM200 and GY-LS300 will be able to stream out RTMP, enabling the content to go directly to a CDN such as USTREAM and YouTube.

- Craig

2. Low light capabilities - very importent for my needs. Which cam is better?

I think with a 4K 1/2.3" chip (7.7mm diagonal) the HM200 is going to probably going be quite a bit less sensitive over the x70's 4K 1" chip (16mm diagonal.) which has four times the surface area so bigger photosites.

Specs on the JVC GY-HM 200 can be seen here.

GY-HM200 4KCAM live streaming camcorder - JVC Professional Europe (http://jvcpro.eu/video/product/493/gy-hm200e-4kcam-live-streaming-camcorder/)

The other thing I'm waiting to see is the dynamic range of this new 1/2" chip against HM300's S35 chip.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Comparisons to the Sony x70's "1 inch type" sensor (it's not really 1 inch in measurement) are tough.

It's a 1/2.33 sensor with 12.4 million pixels vs.an X70 with a sensor that is actually smaller than 1 inch with 20 million pixels. (in a 16x9 read out, that's maybe 14mp??)

It looks like JVC's "AltaSense" company makes the LS300 s35 sensor. Don't know much about this company or how their sensors compare to Aptina, Cmosis, Fuji, Panasonic or Toshiba in quality. I would never try to compare them to Sony sensors though. I think that most of the industry agrees that Sony is ahead of everybody else in sensor fabrication technology and patents. At best, you can "maybe" match Sony but almost nobody ever passes them.

Who makes the HM 200 sensors? Does JVC specify? Is it a BSI sensor? Does it have gap-less micro lenses? Does it read and scale every pixel or does it skip lines? Does it pixel bin? All of this makes a difference in sensor comparisons.

Hard to say.

As far as the highlights, I suspect that it's just simply over exposed. Dunno if it was just for a specific "look" or if it was accidental but I don't think its anything more than that. (hopefully)

CT

P.S I love JVC's spirit and customer service!...but If Sony pulls the trigger and releases a new "VG 900" with 4k and that full frame Sony A7s sensor? Oh crap, that would be a nuclear bomb on Sony's competition. (and maybe a bomb on Sony's own higher camcorders!)

Yes for the sake of accuracy I guess it's best to quote the exact numbers. The Sony 1" has a 13.2 x 8.8mm sensor with a diagonal of 15.9mm and in 16:9 mode has an active are of 14.2 million photosites whereas the JVC HM200 1/2.3 sensor has dimensions of 6.4 x 4.8mm a 16:9 active area of 9.03 million photosites. So yes to be accurate the Sony sensor is 3.78 x the size. Although as you indicate Cliff these facts are but one small part of the sensor performance equation.

Will be very interested to see how these cameras behave in the real world as specifically I really like the concept of the LS300.

Being curious I did a bit of digging on Altasens a while back to find out there background. Quite an interesting back story. Found this.

"Altasens started off in the USA as the Rockwell Scientific Company in 2000. They became well known in the video conferencing imaging industry. It was then majority owned by Olympus via their ITX Corporation back in 2004. Kenwood then bought into JVC in 2008 and then after fifty-eight years of JVC / Panasonic partnership Panasonic sold out of its shareholding in what had become JVC Kenwood. JVC Kenwood then purchased Altasens in 2012 to make sensors after Panasonic's withdrawal in late 2011. This is JVC / Altasens first real venture into 4K imaging. First tests out of Japan say it has some rather some interesting color science."

What interesting color science means will no doubt be widely discussed when these cameras arrive. I just hope they have improved it somewhat over the first 4K demo that Altasens uploaded. Highlight handlng appeared to be an issue in this example:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEoC1L4s4rM2a4aHtGtbVRA

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Authorized JVC Dealer now showing the price at $3995! Looks like it will be ready by NAB 2015.
That's good news!

Authorized JVC Dealer now showing the price at $3995! Looks like it will be ready by NAB 2015.
That's good news!

Not only that, but B&H (they're a sponsor of this site, I'll name them) has the HM200 for $2,695 and the HM170 for $2,295. The HM200 is looking mighty tempting.

There are some real special introductory deals on the LS300.....as soon as I can, I'll post them and trust me, you are going to like it!

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Sorry, Jim, I forget you've moved to another company. EVS' prices are the same as B&H. Good deals!

Yes, the selected dealers will have the same locked price...much like Canon has done with the C series...

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

The LS300 has been getting a lot of attention interest of late, but I am wondering about the GY HM200. B&H indicates that it is due there the beginning of March. I have seen several shots from the camera from Europe but really nothing of substance, and nothing here. Seems like there should be much more chatter and video about the camera considering that early March is like…now. Anyone heard anything or seen any footage?

JVC will have a stand at BVE in London, which starts tomorrow - so I imagine that will generate a bit of interest as those of us who are visiting BVE will get a chance to see it/hands on with the camera and the other new JVC offerings.

Its not on my personal priority list for things to check out (when I visit, probably on Wednesday).... but I am sure those that are interested will report back with their first impressions pretty soon.

Good Review:

News Shooter | Testing out the JVC GY-LS300- A 4K budget Super 35mm camera with a Micro 4/3 Mount (http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/02/24/testing-out-the-jvc-gy-ls300-a-4k-budget-super-35mm-camera-with-a-micro-43-mount/)

I was at BVE in London yesterday and had a look at the LS300 both on the JVC and CVP stands and picked up a brochure. I found it to be a very clever little camera and was far more taken with it than I expected. Assuming image quality is decent then I can see this LS300 appealing to many. I certainly found it far more interesting than the PXW-X70 (now that we know the details, cost and June 2015 timing of Sony's 4K firmware upgrade option for that little cam). Sure, as in that review Troy posted above, the EVF is poor on the LS300 - but the cam overall has a lot going for it.

One more general comment about BVE/the way the industry seems to be moving...from what I can tell. 4K was EVERYWHERE at BVE. I lost count of how many Sony FS7s I saw on all the various stands or how many times I saw 4K on signage. I'm sure I made a sound decision recently - that every camera I buy from now onwards must have 4K capability (even if it'll be a while before I expect to deliver in 4K to my corporate clients).