Full press release at:

Canon USA Announces Second-Generation EOS C100 Mark II (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-announces-second-generation-eos-c100-mark-ii.html)

B&H pre-order link is Canon C100 Mark II Cinema EOS Camera with Dual Pixel CMOS AF (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086125-REG/canon_eos_c100_cinema_eos.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

More photos coming soon to the press release page linked above.

Who knew??

That was fast.

I just saw the rumor a few days ago that Canon was going to revamp the C100 first.

Looks like some nice upgrades, but nothing huge. i.e. no 4K.

This:

Central to many of the new features of the new EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera is its advanced Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor. The Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor separates the RGB output from the camera’s 8.3 Megapixel CMOS imager into three individual 8 megapixel signals (as opposed to 2MB in the EOS C100) for noticeably improved image quality. The Canon DIGIC DV4 processor also includes a new debayering algorithm to help minimize moiré and reduce video noise even at high ISO speeds. (high-sensitivity recording on the camera ranges from ISO 320 to 80,000).

Think it will still match the mk1 with the Digic IV processor? 8MP internal sounds a lot like 4k internal. Not saying anything but just putting it out there.

A month after I bought my C100! That's annoying..

Looks good..

Too soon to tell I guess but unless I'm missing something this is going to get destroyed by the FS7.

AVCHD 24mbps, 1080p60p, 8bit C-LOG (probably needs a rig) for $5,500

vs

XAVC from 80-600mbps, 4K, 180fps, 10 bit S-LOG3 (probably doesn't need a rig) for $8,000
RAW-capable, Prores upgradable, etc...

I was hoping for more from Canon considering how good the C100 in it's time. Seems like $2,500 well spent to move up to a FS7 though. Looks like everyone got caught with their pants pulled down by this new aggressively spec'd cam.

$2500 is still a lot of money when you can add an affordable external recorder to the C100 and get high bitrate recording. Granted you still won't get 4K, high frame-rates or 10 bit, but not everyone needs that (although it would be nice).

The C100 is a no fuss events camera nothing more and that's why I like it. It's small, feels solid in my hands, the codec is perfect for compressed HD delivery & most importantly it's a reliable workhorse. From a technical point of view it sucks the FS7 kicks it's ass every which way. I don't need 10bit 4:2:2 100Mb/s for events so this will do. You say A7S? Yes the image is quality is great but personally I need a camera with dual slot cards as a back-up, a battery that last 8 hours, sits comfortably in my hands, can take a few knocks and gets me the shot.

I'm not fooled!

This camera has 4K ready hardware inside. I'm 90% sure of this. Think about it.....

1.) Pro cameras are designed to have a shelf life of 3+ years.

2.) Sony is going full throttle on 4K and will likely release their new 8 bit-locked "100" camcorder model at NAB next year. (PXW - FS1?)

3.) Without 4k, this C100 mk2 will not survive at all against a Sony "FS1" with 4k in the same price range.

4.) I seriously doubt that Canon would g through the trouble of making a new C100 knowing that 4k is the future and that Canon fans are screaming for 4K. The C100 mk2 would literally be "still born" with a bleak sales future without the 4k hardware inside.

So I strongly suspect that the sensor and motherboard are 4k ready. I bet it's got a minimum of HDMI 1.4 with at least 8 bit UHD at 30p inside.

I also suspect that at NAB, we will see Canon release a C300 4k (10 bit) to compete with the Sony FS7 and a "firmware update" (paid or free) to this C100 mk2 to make it competitive to Sony's FS1 for the 8bit 4k/UHD market.

Again, Canon must have a couple years of sales plans and targets for this C100 mk2 and I just cant imagine them building a Canon camera this important in their line up without 4k hardware inside.

Anybody out there think this is just crazy talk? lol

CT

Cliff I highly doubt the C100 MKII will ever have 4K. Canon is not future proofing this camera because in two years there will be a MKIII with 4K or a completely new model. Like the incremental updates on the iPhone corporate companies are trying to turn a profit not give us a camera that will last for 10 years. Am I currently delivering 4K? No. I agree 4K would have been fantastic but this is a MKII not a new camera, similarly the FS700 II addressed minor issues. There are plenty of other options available, this model will sell regardless. Forget future proofing if you're buying a professional camera the question you should ask is will this camera pay for itself within two years? If not don't buy it. My C100's has paid themselves 10x over in the last two years so I figure it was a good investment.

Canon needs to seriously consider a codec for 4K before they even design cameras. XAVC seems to be the consensus to what they should be using, but there's always the possibility they use a non-standard XAVC variant that isn't called XAVC.

The CODEC should be h.264. They could wrap it in .mp4 or go .mxf. Should be an easy decision for Canon. I dont think that the CODEC is the challange. The industry already has standards for it.

As far as delivery, im shooting 4k now with the intention of 1080 delivery. The best 1080 I have now came from 4k material. The ability to pan and scan a 1080 window inside a 4k frame is montster. Once you start down the 4k road, you never look back.

Anyway, if Canon expects this C100 mk2 to go head to head against a Sony "FS1" 4k camera next year?...Canon will certainly lose market share to Sony. Big time!

I find it hard to believe this is Canon's best strategy.

This thing has to be UHD upgradable in order to compete with Sony and Panasonic in the next 2+ years.

. . . similarly the FS700 II addressed minor issues.
There is no FS700 II, and the FS7 is more than a minor upgrade. It's 4K from the get-go and, unlike the FS700 or even the F5 (without a $1K upgrade), it records 4K internally.

Everyone has a different situation. The Sony FS7 looks great on paper, and I am sure it will cause many folks to switch to Sony.

For me, the C100 Mark II, while not perfect, and without 4K, does provide enough of the upgrades I was seeking that I placed my pre-order this morning. I pre-ordered through B&H as I had a large credit balance there. They did not provide a range of delivery dates, but I think I am towards the front of the line.

It seems reasonable to guess that Canon might have new versions of the C300 and C500 at NAB 2015. Whether they do, what features such versions might have, and what prices points the versions might have will be interesting.

I will be happy with my C100 Mark II, and will rent a C100 as needed until the Mark II ships.

A month after I bought my C100! That's annoying..

Looks good..

3 weeks for me. I'm really pissed right now. 60p is the one shooting mode I wanted most.

Who did y'all buy from?

I was at the SMPTE Expo yesterday and in the Canon booth at the same time they put the camera up on their site, they unveiled this poster:

https://www.facebook.com/evsonline/photos/a.375519215826216.92034.189566854421454/828158420562291/?type=1&theater

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

The CODEC should be h.264. They could wrap it in .mp4 or go .mxf. Should be an easy decision for Canon. I dont think that the CODEC is the challange. The industry already has standards for it.

As far as delivery, im shooting 4k now with the intention of 1080 delivery. The best 1080 I have now came from 4k material. The ability to pan and scan a 1080 window inside a 4k frame is montster. Once you start down the 4k road, you never look back.

Anyway, if Canon expects this C100 mk2 to go head to head against a Sony "FS1" 4k camera next year?...Canon will certainly lose market share to Sony. Big time!

I find it hard to believe this is Canon's best strategy.

This thing has to be UHD upgradable in order to compete with Sony and Panasonic in the next 2+ years.

Make no mistake about it, Canon isn't pitching the C100 mk II against the "FS1". They will pitch the FS1 against the C300 MKII...... and then all you guys who jump ship for the "FS1" will be regretting it.

I wouldn't doubt there will also be an announcement soon concerning the C300 mkII.

I think you mean the FS 7.......

Who did y'all buy from?

I bought locally here in Portland, OR. Rep says the C100 Mark 2 announcement was a "surprise"

I wonder if Canon can at least unlock 60p with a Firmware upgrade. I can live without the other improvements. I couldn't sleep last night I was so angry. Even though I work in pro video, only a small percentage of my work is freelance. I had to save money for three years to afford the C100. Feeling like I've been slapped in the face by Canon.

I think you mean the FS 7.......

Yeah..the "PXW FS1" is the imaginary baby brother to the new FS7. This "FS1" will have the same body as the FS7 but will be locked down to 8bit long GOP codecs only. I will also not accept the FS7 raw docking station with SDI. It will replace the Sony FS100 and will compete directly with the C100 in its price range. (but the FS1 will of course be a 4k camera)

We know Sony is working on a "100" 4k model right now...thats a fact. It would make perfect sense that it will be a locked down 8bit only PXW-FS7.

Once the FS7 hits the streets, almost no new research and development is needed now to bring this future "FS1" crippled model to market. (saves allot on manufacturing costs too)

This is what the C100 mk2 will be fighting in the market next April.

They will pitch the FS1 against the C300 MKII...... and then all you guys who jump ship for the "FS1" will be regretting it.

First of all neither the fs1 nor c300mII exist but the sony fs7 does, the fs7 costs 8K and the c300 costs 12k, not much to compete there for a 4K price difference + you can expect that if there will be a c300MII it will be even more expensive, considering the c100MII costs 500 dollar more.

Jeremiah, just a thought, if you still have the box and everything, you'd stand a good chance of making most of your money back in my opinion if you offer your C100 up for sale. You'd have a pretty limited window of time for it to be viable, but worth a shot if you ask me,

Just got back from shooting all day with my C100 and PMW-300. This is a worthy update for the C100 and I'm tempted to trade my (late 2012 bought) C100 for this MkII early in 2015. But, even though my C100 has paid for itself many, many, many times over, I'll probably just sit tight and see how the 4K demand goes in my (corporate focussed) video world for the next 12 months or so before I buy yet another camera…especially one lacking that option. 1080p50/60 and better viewfinder is a long overdue move. Lack of (internal) decent Codec does not bother me too much (as I use a Ninja Blade nowadays for anything "important" and of course better monitoring).

I see this C100 MkII is still AVCHD…that's now the main remaining achilles heel (although I'm usually very happy with the results I get from Canon's implementation and it's use in my workflow in what I do).

However, most of all just wanted to say hats off to Canon for a genuinely surprising move - at least to most of us - even Apple struggle with suppressing leaks and "real" surprises nowadays ;-) Sure, these are incremental improvements but they show there's life in the old dog yet and much more to come higher up the Canon "food chain".

I have no problem with picture quality of my C100 except WDR and LOG gammas at 8bit, there was "mapping" at smooth gradients occasionally (it is problem for me, but cine1 gamma solve this).

Sharpness is very good (I don't need resize from 4K, it eats discs and time and not all SWs make DC with lanzos anti aliasing filtering), 50p can be good, but I can live with 50i to 25p conversion. So only one better thing is high resolution EVF (but I solve this with Aphatron) and the better positioning LCD, with this I can live.

C100 is a very popular camera for documentaries, new upgrade help with this, it's a minor upgrade but it is better than nothing, its price level is a very important.

...The Canon DIGIC DV4 processor also includes a new debayering algorithm to help minimize moiré and reduce video noise even at high ISO speeds.

Interesting, I think that two green samples (2x1920x1080) and one red and blue (2x1920x1080) samples mean no debayering, but Canon company seems to make something new .-) .

I think you mean the FS 7.......

You are correct sir! Sorry about that.

There is no FS700 II, and the FS7 is more than a minor upgrade.

It's called the Sony NEX-FS700R Lawrence. The FS7 is a completely new model not to be compared to the FS700 in any way.

First of all neither the fs1 nor c300mII exist but the sony fs7 does, the fs7 costs 8K and the c300 costs 12k, not much to compete there for a 4K price difference + you can expect that if there will be a c300MII it will be even more expensive, considering the c100MII costs 500 dollar more.

Yea but, Canon has always been expensive, more expensive than other makes. For people to think they seriously are pitching the C100mkII against the Sony FS 7, you are dreaming. To expect Canon to put in 4K 10 bit, etc and under cut Sony with the C100 mkII is crazy.

They will put it in the C300 mkii, and it will be quite a bit more than the Sony, but people will pay for it, just like we pay for an Apple computer.......... even though as you say C300mkII doesn't exist. The C100mkII didn't exist until today.

I was going to say, that 4K in the C100 Mk. II would be an unrealistic expectation, since the C300 doesn't have it... never mind the competitors; Canon isn't about to undercut its own product line.

Just got back from shooting all day with my C100 and PMW-300. .

Andy, can you share a link to a video you have done that is a good mix of the PMW-300 and C100? ( I have the PMW-300, so would be tempted now by the new C100).

Thanks!

Interesting, I think that two green samples (2x1920x1080) and one red and blue (2x1920x1080) samples mean no debayering, but Canon company seems to make something new .-) .
More down to semantics than technology - it's a Bayer sensor, so will need "deBayering" in one sense...... But you're right - it's not "deBayering" in the normal way.
I was going to say, that 4K in the C100 Mk. II would be an unrealistic expectation, since the C300 doesn't have it... never mind the competitors; Canon isn't about to undercut its own product line.
Quite true - but it may have been expected that updated C100 and C300 models would have come out together?

It just seems that no 4k and only AVC-HD are one thing in a camera of this type that came out a little while back - but a bit disappointing now in a new model? Especially AVC-HD - couldn't they at least have given XDCAM 422? It just seems a bit too incremental a change, but I suppose it is a MkII - not a totally new model.

I was going to say, that 4K in the C100 Mk. II would be an unrealistic expectation, since the C300 doesn't have it... never mind the competitors; Canon isn't about to undercut its own product line.

It doesn't have it "now". The new C300 and 500 probably are not ready yet. However, I suspect that Canon will do a 4K upgrade for all three models at the same time. When the time comes. (I'm guessing a 10 bit C300 MK2 is in the works)

Canon MUST be hoping for a two or three year shelf life for the C100 MK2. (This is standard for a new or updated Pro camcorder) I cant imagine that Canon will release ANOTHER 4K Super35 camera to compete with the C100 mk2 within the next 2 or 3 years.

I seriously, can't imagine that Canon will go another 2 years of NAB and IBC shows with NO new 4k s35 offering. No way!! They can't let Sony, Panny, AJA and BlackMagic steal that much of Canon's market share. It's way to risky. And for what?

What would Canon gain by holding off on 4k for the next 2+ years? If they are going to refresh their EOS line, it makes sense to add 4k at this point.

Does anybody believe that Canon will wait two more years to release a new 4K cameras? (Wait until this new EOS refresh shelf-life has ended?)

No,..Canon wont wait that long. That's why I believe that the C100 mk2 has 4K hardware inside. (30p 8 bit 4:2:0) This will give the C100 mk2 the 2 or 3+ years of shelf life that it needs.

This also will allow it to compete with Sony's next two+ year tidal wave of new 4k models and keep Canon relevant.

I think we will see a Canon NAB 2015 C100 mk2 firmware upgrade. (possibly a paid one)

Just reading my admittedly crazy crystal ball.

CT

Andy, can you share a link to a video you have done that is a good mix of the PMW-300 and C100? ( I have the PMW-300, so would be tempted now by the new C100).

Thanks!

Galen, almost everything I've been doing this year (especially since I got my PMW-300) is covered by NDA/client confidential...that's the nature of working with some very well known companies.

However, there are a few shots using both cameras in some of the Magpas Helimedix films which you can view on Youtube via links near the top of my What We Do page on my Shooting Image Ltd website (and also on Vimeo).

Different tools for different uses but both excellent in their niches and with much overlap. Love them both, equally.

More down to semantics than technology - it's a Bayer sensor, so will need "deBayering" in one sense...... But you're right - it's not "deBayering" in the normal way.

I can't agree with you, it is not about "semantics", it is directly about technology.

C100 use 4K sensor, it is the same sensor as C500 camera use. If you want 4K from C500 than you need debayering (color interpolation from several pixels).

But if you want 2K or HD, you don't need debayering - color interpolation, all color information is true, because all pixels have its own color information from chip. Canon adds both green channels for better sensitivity, but there is no interpolation for color information (sensor gives 8:4:4 signal).

I mean that this is not about "semantics", it is directly about technology.

add:
There is some "phase combination" of green channels for less moire:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/product/cinema_eos/menu/EOS-C300-RGB-Resolution-Considerations-White-paper.pdf

The half-pixel offset between to two sampling lattices introduces a powerful anti-aliasing
mechanism into the final summed green video component — both horizontally and vertically.
That pixel offset shifts the phase of the first order sideband of Green Gb by 180 degrees with
respect to that of Green Ga. Thus, when the two components are summed to form the final
green video signal output these sideband spectra cancel each other. The cancellation of these
sidebands effectively defeats the Nyquist limitation and allows the useful green MTF to extend
beyond the Nyquist frequency of 1080 TVL/ph as shown below in Figure 6.

But no debayering, this 4K sensor was designed for RGB444 with no debayering:

The new Canon image sensor was designed to avoid the demosaicking process ENTIRELY.
It instead relies on innovations in pixel addressing and associated readout mechanisms to
separately extract the three RGB video components — as described in a separate Canon.
white paper [5].

- so new Canon EOS C100 MarkII hasn't "a better debayering" due new DIGIC DV4, it is not a true information.

I don't understand this:

The Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor separates the RGB output from the camera’s 8.3 Megapixel CMOS imager into THREE individual 8 megapixel signals (as opposed to 2MB in the EOS C100)

...for noticeably improved image quality. The Canon DIGIC DV4 processor also includes a new debayering algorithm to help minimize moiré and reduce video noise even at high ISO speeds. (high-sensitivity recording on the camera ranges from ISO 320 to 80,000).

----

Why somebody needs three 8 megapixels for HD image?

If this is true then it is clean that canon really needs big colors interpolation and you are right, but I really don't understand why? When you have wonderfull CMOS chip for HD at RGB444 designed for no debayering?

Really nice question, why you need three 8MPx for three 2MPx output :-)) . Is it a new protection of future new higher models :-) ? I can't believe to this sort of processing.

Thus, the C100 Mark II DIGIC DV4 processor internally interpolate the 4K (QHD) resolution as three RGB signals, each has 8MPx (this means RGB444) fot "the best image quality" (at HD right now .-) ).

The C100 Mark II then does some down conversion from 4K 50p/60p to HD 50p/60p, it is really a different way processing than the old C100 has (it works with no debayering from 4K sensor).

I assume the next year we'll see a new 4K Canon cine camera (C200 or MarkIII), this is only about new recording now.

We know Sony is working on a "100" 4k model right now...thats a fact. It would make perfect sense that it will be a locked down 8bit only PXW-FS7.



Cliff, where is this stated as 'fact'? Where are you getting this information from?

You are right. This is not actually a perfect "fact".

It is entirely possible that Sony will never EVER make another "100" level Super35 camera again. And, it's also statistically possible that Sony has no more future plans for ANY other 4K cameras again too!

So to say that its a "fact" that Sony is working on ANY new 4k models...it actually not true for me to declare at all as "fact".

("100 level" meaning: Entry price point - "FS100" or "C100" class $5k-$6k 8 bit 4:2:0 codec model)

Call me crazy but I somehow completely believe that Sony will build another "100" class camcorder again in the future to fill that marketing void and challenge Canon's C100 again. (And even Panny's AF101)

Yes, I'd say it's a forgone conclusion unless the company goes bankrupt....which statistically "could" happen.

CT ;-)

The big disadvantage with all Canon cameras is the lack of a codec developed in house. I think thats the main reason they haven't roll out 4K cameras yet.

Yes and no......Canon did develop the XF codec. Now it was a derivative of the XDcam codec developed by Sony, but Canon has a bit of history in taking an existing codec and improving it. They did that with HDV....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

But no debayering, this 4K sensor was designed for RGB444 with no debayering:
Not quite - the sensor was designed for a dual function - 4:4:4 1080 via "simple readout", or 4k via normal deBayering (as the case with the C500)

(Pavel - I'm in full agreement with with what you say technically - it's just how the processes are described.)
I don't understand this:

The Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor separates the RGB output from the camera’s 8.3 Megapixel CMOS imager into THREE individual 8 megapixel signals (as opposed to 2MB in the EOS C100)

...for noticeably improved image quality.----

Why somebody needs three 8 megapixels for HD image?
Yes, good questions.....!

Fundamentally, it sounds like the DIGIC DV4 is doing a full deBayer - that's effectively what the three 8 Megapixel R,G,B images are!

I for one cannot believe that that extra complexity has been introduced solely to improve the quality of the 1080 image - though it may do that somewhat - it's effectively doing a full deBayer to get 4k, then a downscale to 1080 HD.

What I infer is that the camera front end is now fully capable of a 4k output - even if not enabled in this camera. Hence, the likely prime reason for the new processor is to use such in a forthcoming 4k camera model. As others have said, the question remains as to what codec Canon will use to do that - but they must be seen as readying the ground with this new front end.

It raises the interesting question of whether a future firmware upgrade could enable the 4k ability. I'm of no doubt that as far as camera front end and processing goes it is likely up to it - the question is what the coder is capable of? Is it an AVC-HD coder, period, or something more sophisticated with only the AVC-HD ability enabled at the moment?

Either way, I fully expect to see a new 4k camera from Canon before long - and something along the lines of an updated C300 seems most likely. I'll stick my neck out and predict most likely before NAB, but we'll see.

...I for one cannot believe that that extra complexity has been introduced solely to improve the quality of the 1080 image - though it may do that somewhat - it's effectively doing a full deBayer to get 4k, then a downscale to 1080 HD.

What I infer is that the camera front end is now fully capable of a 4k output - even if not enabled in this camera. Hence, the likely prime reason for the new processor is to use such in a forthcoming 4k camera model. As others have said, the question remains as to what codec Canon will use to do that - but they must be seen as readying the ground with this new front end.

Yes, it is 4K camera without 4K output, a little crazy thing for me. C500 is 4K/2K 10bit/12bit camera, I think that the C100 will remain at 8bit, but as a customer I will need at least one 4K output for my pleasure with C100 MarkII, it has 4K internal processing and only DC to HD at the end .-) ? Put 1k USD on table a get ProRes 4K license for this camera.

Not quite - the sensor was designed for a dual function - 4:4:4 1080 via "simple readout", or 4k via normal deBayering (as the case with the C500)

(Pavel - I'm in full agreement with with what you say technically - it's just how the processes are described.)

Yes, good questions.....!

Fundamentally, it sounds like the DIGIC DV4 is doing a full deBayer - that's effectively what the three 8 Megapixel R,G,B images are!

I for one cannot believe that that extra complexity has been introduced solely to improve the quality of the 1080 image - though it may do that somewhat - it's effectively doing a full deBayer to get 4k, then a downscale to 1080 HD.

What I infer is that the camera front end is now fully capable of a 4k output - even if not enabled in this camera. Hence, the likely prime reason for the new processor is to use such in a forthcoming 4k camera model. As others have said, the question remains as to what codec Canon will use to do that - but they must be seen as readying the ground with this new front end.

It raises the interesting question of whether a future firmware upgrade could enable the 4k ability. I'm of no doubt that as far as camera front end and processing goes it is likely up to it - the question is what the coder is capable of? Is it an AVC-HD coder, period, or something more sophisticated with only the AVC-HD ability enabled at the moment?

Either way, I fully expect to see a new 4k camera from Canon before long - and something along the lines of an updated C300 seems most likely. I'll stick my neck out and predict most likely before NAB, but we'll see.

Absolutely right. I just cant fathom Canon going through all the trouble of creating a new C100 and then getting behind it for the next 3 years as a "1080-only" camera. It would just be eaten alive by Sony and Panny in that time. Sony already has a FULL fleet of 1080-only models today and enough to get them to the "end of life" for 1080 shooting. (what they have today could last for 5 years now) So, I imagine that 4k is now 100% in all their bluprints for all their new designs moving forward.

BTW,...for any 4K haters out there.....4K cameras that shoot in 1080 make 1080 look amazing. Yup, even for shooters that "Dont need or don't care about 4k anyway"

Remember when folks used to say: "I dont need HD because HD is a waste of space and NOBODY is asking me for it" lol ;-)

As far as the CODEC? Sony's XAVC is not really a "codec" from Sony. The higher h.264 profiles have existed for years and years. Sony just pulled the specification they liked from the same H.264 book that everybody else has access to. They simply wrap it the way they want and give it a logo. Canon could easily do the same with h.264 and call it their own name. (They could just make a single file structure in a common .mp4 container?)

I have read that Sony has developed some pretty sophisticated encoding chips though and they have some neat techniques for crunching the math.

The CODEC should not be hard. Panasonic is also doing the same thing with that good old h.264 standard.

CT

Call me crazy but I somehow completely believe that Sony will build another "100" class camcorder again in the future to fill that marketing void and challenge Canon's C100 again. (And even Panny's AF101)



They already have there new entry level 6k$ camera. it is called the FS700 Sony NEX-FS700R Super 35 Camcorder (Body Only) NEX-FS700R B&H

They dropped the price when they announced the FS7. They could wait at least a year with the FS700 as entry level. it's just 500$ more than a C100 mk2 and you get super slowmo, and the ability to do 4k externally!

and the ability to do 4k externally! to a recorder that is as expensive as the camera :) in that way the fs7 is a better alternative.

2015 might be a very interesting year for Canon. Time, as they say, will tell.

For now, I am fully at peace with my choices.

to a recorder that is as expensive as the camera :) in that way the fs7 is a better alternative.

Of course it is! I have one on pre order.

But the Fs700, as an entry level camera at 6k, is a lot of a camera! On the C100 mk2, if Canon decide to allow 4k via a firmware update, it will be most definitly on an external recorder via HDMI, since the SD card slot won't cut it.

They already have there new entry level 6k$ camera. it is called the FS700 Sony NEX-FS700R Super 35 Camcorder (Body Only) NEX-FS700R B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1010153-REG/sony_nex_fs700r_4k_nxcam_super_35mm.html)

They dropped the price when they announced the FS7. They could wait at least a year with the FS700 as entry level. it's just 500$ more than a C100 mk2 and you get super slowmo, and the ability to do 4k externally!

The FS700 is a great camcorder for the price, no doubt.

But Sony is pushing XAVC now. Even Sony's cheapest cameras have 50Mbps XAVC. The FS700's internal 24/28mbps codec is old and pales when compared to XAVC. (You have to use an external recorder to get the most out of it)

It makes perfect sense to manufacture two cameras with different firmware for 2 different markets. (Sony PXW-FS7 and for the "100" market, the imaginary market PXW-FS1)

"7" Model (formally "700" market) - High end pro crowd = 10bit 4:22 intraframe, full 4K capture. $8K

"1" Model (formally "100" market) - DSLR shooter crowd = 8bit 4:2:0 Long GOP, UHD capture.

There you go, one R&D cost, one assembly line, one parts stock list...TWO markets nicely separated and satisfied by Sony. (I'm certain a fictitious "FS1" would sell like hotcakes)

Look, I don't claim to know anything here. In the end, I'm just talking outa my butt here. (yes, I admit that) However, I think it's highly possible that this is Sony's strategy given that their FS700 and FS100 are similar looking cameras. (-the ND filters and SDI)

CT ;-)