I came across a few Chinese dealers that start to sell these things: Feiyu G3 Handheld Stabilizer for GoPro HERO 3 and 4 (3-Axis) - HeliPal (http://www.helipal.com/handheld-gopro-stabilizer-3-axis.html).

From the looks of it you can get some pretty smooth glidecam shots in a pocket size. I was thinking of getting a gopro but since I don't skydive or snowboard I was having some doubts if it would be usefull at a wedding, but now I have seen these small stabilisers I might be able to use it during a photoshoot, it would easily fit in a backpack and the 4K shooting option of the gopro blackversion seems plenty detailled to mix with my other camera's. (like Mark has demonstrated: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/micro-pov-camera-systems/525263-gopro-hero-4-black-4k-videos.html)

One reason I only start using my steadicam at the venue is that it is too cumbersome to drag along before that and when used outside, even the smallest breeze trows it off balance. These 3 axis stabilisers however seem to have no problem with wind so it could be a usefull tool?

Price is not to steep either and it could be a powerfull combo, anyone has one or considering getting one?

Very interesting indeed.... though I wonder if we'd still suffer the usual 'bob' as we walked along without a vest.

I can get "bob" free movement without a vest and that's a simple technique of slightly bending your knees, making short steps and holding your arm in the way the arm of a steadicam is positioned (with your elbow pointing sideways) so you have 2 points that take away the "bobs".

all steadicam shots in below trailer are done without a stabiliser with my blackbird, so it should be possible to get a smooth motion with that 3 axis handheld stabiliser. This can never replace a real steadicam but for stabilised shots on the go in circumstances that where otherwise impossible (for me then as a solo shooter) this might prove to be very useful, especially because of it's size as it will be easy to transport. I would never use it in in situations where I only get one shot to get it right but I certainly see a use for this during the photoshoot or even during brideprep, both moments I"m not using my blackbird now.

trait dunion on Vimeo

I've been using a 2 axis gimbal with my GoPro on my quadcopter for about a year and was looking at maybe gettign a 3 axis gimbal to make a hand held support. Looks like they have beaten me to it.

Roger

thinking about getting this combination, the Hero4 Black and that gimbal, perfect for those moments that you can cover a lot of stuff where theres lots of movement where ordinarily you wouldn't be set up for!

Good safety cam too, easy to set up!

Also thinking of swapping out the camera on the Phantom and upgrading at some point when they have a compatible gimbal.

I ordered the Feiyu G3 today, the gopro4 black is on backorder, takes 1 to 2 weeks before it will hit the stores, now the wedding season comes to an end I"ll have plenty of time to test it and maybe take it with me for the last wedding this year end November.

Is the GoPro 4 REALLY up to the standard though? Or are we only tempted by the cheap price and the easy portability?

I know I bought a GoPro once (maybe version 2?) and sold it after one wedding - anything less that full daylight and it was unusable.

Also, does it have focal length options? I'm not keen on SUPER wide. I'd like something around 18-24mm equivalent on a full frame.

I ordered the Feiyu G3 today, the gopro4 black is on backorder, takes 1 to 2 weeks before it will hit the stores, now the wedding season comes to and end I"ll have plenty of time to test it and maybe take it with me for the last wedding this year end November.

Keep us posted Noa....

Is the GoPro 4 REALLY up to the standard though? Or are we only tempted by the cheap price and the easy portability?

I don't intent to use it indoor when it's too dark, that's when my blackbird and gh3 and a 12mm f20 are used, but for the first part of the day when there is sufficient light (the part I have almost never used a steadicam before because there is often no time to use it or to difficult to take along) I definitely see a use for it, just grab from my bag, do some quick steadicam shots with it whenever there is little time, since you don't have to stabilise it, just turn on the power and go, it should be easy and quick to use.

About image quality, I just saw the gopro also does 2.7K at 50frames sec, that's what I would choose, still some cropping room and possibility to slow down. From the samples that are available online at 4K downsampled to 1080p you have to admit the image looks very impressive coming from such a tiny box.

How it will work in real life, that's another thing as this is all theory :) Shooting all auto with the gopro would be one issue but I"m sure you quickly will see how to work around it's shortcomings.

Maybe if I"ll post my first try out here you all will be clicking the order button. :D and if you don't hear from me you will now it's a piece of crap. :)

For my last two weddings (last two ever but that's another story:-) I travelled really light & used 2 x OM-D E-M5s plus a GoPro HD Hero 3+ Black Edition for the locked off wide safety shot. The video quality in reasonable light was fine & the simplicity of Start/Stop without worrying about aperture/focus/WB etc or anything except framing makes them incredibly easy & worry free to use. I had a Hero 2 & didn't regard quality as good enough for any more than the odd cut away to an unusual POV but the Hero 3+ BE is usable & I assume that the Hero 4 will be even more usable. Remotely controlling the GoPro over WiFi with an iPhone is fantastic.

Last two ever? Nigel, say it ain't so. What's the story?

Really interested to hear how that mini steady rig works... wonder if it could be adapted to a RX100M3... hmmm.... that would be rather sweet.

Over the past few years everything has been getting smaller and smaller and our concept that wedding cameras have to be 3' long on your shoulder and weigh 25lbs is fast going out the window!

If a GoPro works for a wedding then perfect ...we are past judging a wedding videographer now by the size of his camera. I have always envied the photog who gets out his car, grabs a camera and shoots.

The idea of picking up a rig with a GoPro on it ...remember NO tripod is needed in theory so you have nothing to carry and nothing to set up .... What we really need is total portability on cameras but with built in audio devices where we can clip something the size of a pea on the groom and even the bride in seconds and have brilliant audio too.

It won't be long either until you WILL have a cam the size of an action camera that will also "see in the dark" for receptions .... My little $100 action cams already totally out perform my older GoPro Hero 2's and the footage is getting pretty close to good enough for weddings. It's just the audio side that needs to be sorted out so we have minimum setup time with that side

Won't it be bliss when you don't need to unpack the car at a wedding anymore?? Just grab and work.

I'm looking at my big Sony's here, my stedicam sled and vest and rubbing my chin and thinking, maybe Noa has got something here and maybe my next set of cameras will actually fit in a small bag?

Chris

Already close to there, last shoot was AX100 on a tripod and two RX10's on monopods (ones with the feet). Had a couple "assistants" as it was a family deal, so my young sons could man cameras, such an easy shoot!

Couple small bags, a case of grip stuff "just in case", left that in the car only needed one thing because I forgot my custom shoe mount for the AX (dang allergies, brain fog!!), and the tripod/monopods. Actually was able to "fly" the AX on the bigger Sirui monopod pretty nicely!

I gave up on big heavy gear a while ago... something like that GoPro and handheld stabilizer seems like another great "toy" that would fit in with a "one man band" to allow additional production quality alongside some locked down cams

Intersting to see if it's possible to mount my smallHD monitor - I can see that there's a phone mount but I don't like the lag when previewing from my android phone - plus it can take an age for my phone to 'see' the gopro. I also have issues with the battery going down quicker when wifi is enabled (GoPro3) so using a monitor is a must - I've heard the LCD backpac is pretty poor, especially in sunlight although for basic framing it might be good enough.

The case for small cameras is a good one but for my main runaround camera it boils down to one thing - full manual control - this is the one thing that is difficult with small cameras as there is simply not the space for separate focus/Iris/gain/shutter speed/WB etc. I use my CX730 for emergency 'grab a camera and film it' situations as the picture is cracking and auto mode is good but If I want to use any manual override then it's into a touch screen menu system - PITA

Pete

It's fascinating hearing everyone getting excited about portable, as I have been working small and portable out of one bag for years. I carry two video cams and a GoPro 3, a tripod with a double camera mount and a selection of mini tripods, clamps etc. I also have a 132 led light and a couple of voice recorders tucked in the bag. For the photo and video package, I have another small bag with my Canon dslr and Lumix FZ200 although I will shortly be getting a FZ1000 to replace a video camera and one FZ200.

I'll be following the 3 axis stabiliser with interest as it is just the sort of thing I can see using a lot.

Roger

What double tripod mount do you use Roger? surely your wide shot isn't a safety shot though as when you move your head for pan or tilt then both cameras move. I use my safety shot camera to mask my moves :/

Hi Pete,

I use a double tripod plate with a videocam and dslr so that I can take stills of anything I am pointing the main camera at during the day. It's very easy to whip the stills camera off the tripod if I want to hand hold it, while leaving the video at a different angle. I also use a clamp mount on the central shaft of the tripod just under the tripod head, with another video cam. That means I can keep it on a wide angle without it being affected by the pan and tilt of the tripod head. As I maintain a fixed position during the ceremony, that's not a problem, and it's useful for the speeches.

Given the space of course, I would usually clamp the second video cam on the opposite side of the couple for a totally different angle, and also mount the GoPro as a safety shot. I try to avoid extra tripods and stands as much as possible, as clamps are so much easier to attach to something, take no space and are quick and easy to chuck in the bag with camera attached when you are on your own. It also means that breakdown time takes seconds.

I like to be very mobile while still having multi camera options with fast setup and breakdown, another reason why the 3axis GoPro mount looks like it could be a useful addition.

Roger

More of these handheld stabilisers start to appear, JOBO has the GYROpod MD-1 for camera's up to 750gr and a smaller version, the sp1 for smartphones, both are 2 axis stabilised, If you look on vimeo (by clicking on the title of the video) for the reactions you can see it is not positive, not sure it is a user error.

Gazer Gyro-Pod MD1 Introductory Tutorial on Vimeo

I think a lot of companies are going to be jumping on the bandwagon with these hand held stabilsers. I have a 2 axis gimbal on my quadcopter that I was going to try to mount as a handheld stabilser. You can also buy the 2 axis gimbals now for under £60 that should be easy to adapt.

My thoughts were also to have one permanently clamped to my main tripod on the shaft with a goPro, so that I had an immediate steady cam that I could switch on and off at any time I wanted.

Roger

Just got the confirmation that delivery will be tomorrow, only 4 days to get to my door, that's fast. What was new though is that DHL send me a text message that they can't deliver until I paid import duties which was easy to do as they give you a trackingnr and password and a link to their website where you can pay directly with visa. I had to pay 21 euro.
The gopro 4 black is expected to arrive in Belgium first week of November.

What double tripod mount do you use Roger? surely your wide shot isn't a safety shot though as when you move your head for pan or tilt then both cameras move. I use my safety shot camera to mask my moves :/

Here's something I occasionally use: Manfrotto 131DDB Replacement for Manfrotto 3153B | B&H Photo

Mounts two fluid heads on top of a bar on top of the tripod, so you can pan each one independently.

Here's something I occasionally use: Manfrotto 131DDB Replacement for Manfrotto 3153B | B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5407-REG/Manfrotto_3153B_3153B_Double_Head_Support.html)

Mounts two fluid heads on top of a bar on top of the tripod, so you can pan each one independently.

Don't you get any camera wobble vibration on the wide just by panning the other one? None at all?

Not that I've noticed, but you've made me worried now! I'll do a test and post a video. I've never panned it aggressively or anything like that.

Not that I've noticed, but you've made me worried now! I'll do a test and post a video. I've never panned it aggressively or anything like that.

A picture would be good too....

Also, what kind of tripod do you have this mounted on? It's got me thinking about a couple of jobs I have coming up in tight spaces, but I'm concerned the regular tripod I use may not be up to the task of not twisting.

Not that I don't find this interesting but might be good to start a separate topic for this and keep the focus on handheld 2 or 3 axis stabilisers.

Just took your advice Noa and started a new thread here http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/525426-mounting-2-cameras-one-tripod.html#post1865073

Roger

Hey Noa

Is there a huge advantage using a 3 axis unit as opposed to a 2 axis one .... They are a lot cheaper but would ones video suffer a bit compared to using a stedicam ... Gosh I like the idea of being able to pick up a rig with just one hand and do a shoot!!

Chris

Roger? I was also looking as an FZ1000 .. I was wondering if it could cut in in low light reception venues ??

I have no idea what I will be getting into, the stabiliser will be arriving tomorrow but I will have to wait at least 3 weeks before I can put it to use, will be doing enough "fun" stuff before I would take it to a wedding, maybe I"ll attach a mattebox to it so it doesn't look so ridiculous :)

Hi Chris,

That"s a good question, and the answer is I don't know. With a much larger sensor and better optics than my current cameras, it should be an improvement on what I achieve now, although that is pretty good anyway. the current internet wisdom seems to be that it is on a par with the Sony RX10, although the Sony has the edge on maximum telephoto range light handling. The Lumix will also use higher iso than I can currently use before graining is noticeable, so for me I can't see it be anything other than a move forward at a great price, both for video and stills convenience.

As I already have a couple of Lumix FZ200 cams that I am very happy with and I have always had great reliability with Panasonic gear, it seems a logical step.

Oh dear, another diversion from the 3 axis gimbal, sorry folks :-(

Roger

Last two ever? Nigel, say it ain't so. What's the story?
I probably should contribute to Craig's post over on the member's forum but basically like Tariq have found it too tough to make a living from wedding videos. The basic problem is the 'making a living' bit as customers are not really prepared to what it's really worth to produce a decent wedding video plus the big killer that it's all but impossible to book more than one or two weddings per week. Wedding photography is better paid for the effort involved but competition from Weekend Warriors is driving the prices down. Both wedding video & photography suit part time work & can be a great supplementary income but as a full time occupation it's precarious.

I have actually amazed myself by returning to my old job after a career break of several decades. I now get a very decent salary & good job satisfaction. I miss the freedom of being in charge of my own time & it's much harder work than shooting weddings but a regular salary is very comforting.

More of these handheld stabilisers start to appear, JOBO has the GYROpod MD-1 for camera's up to 750gr and a smaller version, the sp1 for smartphones, both are 2 axis stabilised, If you look on vimeo (by clicking on the title of the video) for the reactions you can see it is not positive, not sure it is a user error.



750grams??

The Sony A7S is 489grams. ARe there any sony fe lenses that will keep that under 750 I wonder?

It doesn't seem like it should handle a sony A7s though. I'm skeptical!


But just looking here - a Sony A6000 plus the Sony e-mount 16mm 2.8 pancake lens weighs in at 460grams at a cost of £920. The quality would blow the GoPro out of the water!

That's what the spec sheet says so I should think that is correct, with a panasonic gh4 paired with a 12mm f2.0 olympus glass I could stay under that weight.
That handheld stabiliser is not going to replace my blackbird, but it will have it's place fort certain steadicam like shots I have not been able to make because of the size and weight.
This is an area where the gopro blows any other camera out of the water :)

Yea Noa, l'd probably stick with my steadicam and A7s for dancing because of low light ability, but an A6000 on one of these would be great for carrying along on the photo shoot!

I'm still thinking the RX100, probably a M3 for the XAVCS.... small, light, good image quality in tight quarters/low light, paired with a 3 axis setup.... hmm, will have to put that on the Christmas wish list!

I've been trying to figure out a "replacement" for the PJ7xx series cams (with the internal lens gimbals), this might fit the bill - not something I'd use a lot, but probably handy to have! As more small 4K capable cameras become available, having an "external magic eyeball" arrangement seems like a great way to go.

Dave, I'm a little torn. The RX100 mk3 is £700. The a6000 is £550 with a 16mm f2.8 at £219 making it only marginally more expensive.

I know you lose some stops, and a lot of zoom range, but I'd be right in saying the quality would be superior? no?

Both mentioned cameras produce excellent results, the rx100 is a all in one solution and the only one worthy to be called a pocketcam. Having build in nd's is also a major benefit in my opinion.

Do those cameras stop shooting after a while due to heating up? Or are they reliable?

RX100M3's are still a tad expensive, being "new"... I'm waiting patiently, as my M2's do OK, and the RX10 w/2.0 firmware are fine and dandy.

The A6000 is an entirely different animal, with APS-C sensor vs. the 1" class of the RX's. I have Alpha mount APS-C cameras, but don't take them out much - the RX100 is a "pocket rocket", and the RX10 is just plain a good "all around" shooter - both meet my needs rather well, and mean less "kit" in lenses and such. Of course, your personal preferences/needs may vary...


@Andrew
So far (knock on wood), the RX's have never even hinted at overheating, although I somehow seem to recall there is a reference in the manual. They are generally built like little tanks, so with the most basic of care, they should serve a shooter for quite a while. I'm guessing not quite as hardened as a GoPro, but you can get a solid underwater shell for them pretty cheap, and that would probably make it even more durable for wet/dusty conditions.

Noa,

I know you say the GoPro will take a few weeks to arrive, buthas your 3-axis stabiliser arrived yet? Any first impressions or comments on build quality?

I have took it out of it's packaging, looked at it and put it back in :) So not much to comment about it, once the gopro arrives (arrival date should be beginning November) I can tell more about it. From the first look the handle is very solid but the head looks fragile which I guess is normal as the construction to stabilise and hold the gopro is not something you could sit on as a test.

Sounds good Noa

I have been seriously thinking about using an action cam on something like this for my bridal shoots after the ceremony so your comments will be great.

The idea is that, with me getting older, getting into a vest and arm and lugging it around for 20 minutes is getting rather tiring so if I can go single handed it will be a huge asset and save my aching body.

With my stedicam I usually do what Don Bloom calls "roundie roundies" ..I go around a couple 360 degrees while they kiss or gaze into each other's eyes ... it would be nice to know if this rig could achieve the same sort of move .... 25kg of rig is killing me!!

Do you need a 3 axis gimbal or will a 2 axis work as well ..which axis do they leave out ???

Chris

Also, as a thought - the LX100 shooting 4k might be an option. If there is still some minor obvious bobbing or movement, the 4k would be handy for adding extra stabilisation in post!

Although you lose your slow-mo capability as 4k is only 30p.

Don't think that the Feiyu G3 is suitable for any other camera then the gopro, it has to be prealanced in the factory since you only need to slide the gopro in and it's ready after initialising.

The Feiyu G3 balances the roll, pitch and pan, the 2-axis stabilization does pitch and roll only according to the info on their website. That pan stabilisation or control is important as when you change direction the camera will slowly follow you. It should result in smoother movement.

Must say I"m getting more and more excited to give it a go, hope I won't be too disappointed, I have seen some user videos online but most where from people that probably never used a steadicam before, since I do have some experience that should help in getting better results, at least I hope so...

Ah right - Noa I though you had ordered the Gyropod MD1.

Well, I'd still be interested to see what the GoPro can do.

I'd much rather fly an RX100m3 which can give you a certain amount of DOF though.

An RX100m3 plus Gyropod MD1 would come in at £1100. And portable enough to just grab and go, or strap onto you bag/belt for easy access.

You might want to read the comments here before buying a Gyropod MD1
http://vimeo.com/96046728

I warned about a negative review earlier in this thread as well, the buyer apparently had to deal directly with the supplier in Hong Kong while I can see one Belgian dealer offering the Gyropod MD1 with a 2 year official warranty. That means in case of malfunction you can give it to the dealer here and he has to take it up with the supplier. Could have been that the user at vimeo had a faulty one from the beginning and just had bad luck but even then it should have been repaired.

That sucks!

I can't see any other options online. Surely somebody has to make one that accomodates smaller cameras - please!

Heard about this one for small camera like the RX100

Gibbon DV Black Magic Cinema Gimbal Stabilizer | Big Balance (http://bigbalance.com/gorilla-dv-black-magic-cinema-gimbal)

Don't know if it's shipping yet.

Just did some digging into that Todd as it initially looked promising.

A few things.

Only 2-axis is unfortunate...

Watching videos, they seem to refer to a productcalled the Gorilla which is now missing from their product list. Name change?

Some videos of the Gibbon seem to show a second handle which seems to be something they've added on to limit the left right movement they don't cover in the absent 3rd axis.

The guys on a video at NAB claimed to be shipping in 6 weeks. Its now what, 5 months later?

Doesn't look good unfortunately.