Hi All - I've been using Olympus WS311M recorders for well over 5 years and 2 of them are failing (I have 4 in all) so I need to pension them off but what to replace them with? I have Zoom H1 recorders but they are too bulky to fit in a jacket pocket, so am currently looking at the Sony ICDUX533B as it seems the right size and also records WAV (the Olympus only records WMA that drifts). I had a look at the Tascam DR-07 but again it looks a little bulky.

Anyone care to weight in with their thoughts?

If you can hold off a little bit, until the product is released, it might be perfect timing to buy a Juiced Link Little DARling.

Hi Peter,
I have 3 of the Sony ICD PX-312 recorders, to use where I want something smaller than my Zoom H1. The 312 doesn't have the wav facility, being just mp3 and it also has 2Gb built in memory rather than 4Gb. They both take a micro sd card for more recording time, although I have never needed it as I can get several hours of recording on the 2Gb onboard.

I prefer using mp3 to wav anyway for weddings, as the higher selectable levels of mp3 are indistinguishable in quality from wav for wedding sound. It also uses up less memory. Unlike the Zoom, there is no variable input volume, just 5 selectable levels, but I have never found that a problem, as I invariably leave it on the same one anyway. Battery life is way better than the zoom and a pair of duracells that I put in 5 weddings ago are still showing as full on the screen.

The Sony is much smaller and less bulky than the Zoom, and goes in the groom's inside pocket very comfortably. It doesn't have a mic stand thread, but if you need one, it is very easy to superglue a suitably threaded nut to the back.

To sum up, I use the Sony in preference to the Zoom in all situations where I need a lav or external mic, but I prefer the Zoom if i want to use the onboard Zoom stereo mics. Either Sony would be a very good buy in my opinion, with the 312 being cheaper if you don't need wav files.

Roger

I've added a quick pic of the Sony and Zoom H1 together to show relative sizes.

Roger

Thanks Roger - I thought the Sony might be a good one - have you experienced time drift at all with the MP3 files? I have 4 Zoom H1 recorders and H2 - they are really good but I do use my Olympus for groom ceremony and any potential wandering speakers at the wedding breakfast so they need to be slimline!

That little darling also looks intersting but I need to buy pretty soon.

http://www.juicedlink.com/blogs/news/13161873-new-for-nab-little-darling-distributed-audio-recorder

Pete

The little darling looks great, but I can't find any info about when it is coming out. Does anyone know?

I read that it would be around 200dollar? A bit pricey but would get one anyway, it's not listed on their site yet.

Pete, the Sony will drift a few frames over a long uninterrupted recording, but I use them for stage productions up to 90 minutes and the drift is never more than a few frames. Unless you are using only one camera, then resynching on a shot change is a matter of seconds. I just lay down the audio track and if I detect any drift, I shift a video clip by a couple of frames to re synch or just use the auto synch in the NLE. I find the same with the Zoom, and it is unlikely that any non genlocked source, audio or video is going to remain in perfect sync for long recordings.

The LittleDARling looks moderately interesting, but I don't see much that would be helpful to me for weddings to justify the likely price. Audio bracketing may have its uses, but with digital audio having such a low operating noise level, it is no great problem keeping safe levels and bringing up in post. If it was that important to me, I would simply use a pair of cheap Sony's for a fraction of the price and set them at different levels.

Roger

I've been using the Sony recorders all this year and I haven't had to change the batteries yet. They have been one of my best purchases as they have simplified capturing audio at weddings. I now have 5 of them and use them for the service and for speeches. It's one less worry. Turn them on, press record and forget about them. One of the recorders drifts slightly but that is easy to correct in Sony Vegas. The others seam pretty accurate with no discernable drift in normal use. I do have a yamaha wav recorder but that doesn't get as much use. I also have radio microphones that I used to use. They are due to be sold. Too much hassle.
John.

Little DARlings look really good, am waiting their release.

I find the Zoom bulky and have complained about it before, but I gave up complaining and the truth is it works almost everytime. Only with a fitted jacket is it an issue and the quality is so good. For the money it's awesome.

My slim toshiba is not manufactured anymore but it's as good as the zoom and much smaller, I love it. I strongly prefer wav files as they just don't drift like MP3.

The little darling looks great, but I can't find any info about when it is coming out. Does anyone know?

Hi Bob, I sent Robert, who I think is the owner or the company, or at least the engineer of the device, an email last night. Response was:

"The Little DARling is making good progress. I'm really pleased with it. All updates regarding the project will be posted on our blog. Please make sure you are subscribed to get notified on program release, pricing, etc ..."

By the way, he seems to be open to feature requests. The main one I've asked for is that there be a clip on the back, so it can clip to the belt of a celebrant wearing a pocketless dress. Robert's confirmed there will be a clip, and also other optional accessories.

I think I sent him an email around NAB time with other suggestions. Can't remember what I said! But I do remember worrying about the positive/negative bias thing. I don't know anything about audio, but I'm pretty sure you have to choose the right polarity mic for the recorder. I wonder if it's possible to design a recorder that is compatible, or can be made to be compatible, with any bias. I'll send him another email and see what he says.

So, just for the record, it looks like this will be "positive bias".

I'm very ignorant about all things audio, and don't know which devices are positive and which are negative. I think Roland R-05, Zoom H1, Sennheiser transmitters are positive bias, and Sony UWP and some Lectronics devices are negative. No idea about Olympus, Yamaha, Tascam... Upshot, anyway, is if you want to use your lapel microphone from Sony/Lectronics with the Little DARling, you may need to rewire it, or else purchase a new one.

I think most mainstream recorders are the same. The Sony's you refer to are wireless units, of course, not voice recorders.

Rode, for example, never mentions the polarity thing and only sell one version of their lapel mic, so obviously it will work with virtually all voice recorders.

I strongly suspect the juiced link recorder will come with a mic, but who knows. Since that is it's main purpose, I would be very surprised if they did not offer a mic option at least.

These new Tascams referred to in the Audio Room look interesting:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/525345-tascam-dr-10-micro-linear-pcm-recorders.html

I would probably prefer a device that can be a standalone recorder as well as take a wire but I may get one for grooms.

Pete

I need to buy pretty soon.


What did you end up buying, Peter?

I just bought 3 Olympus recorders to replace my aging iRivers. The model is DM-620 (Might be different in the UK). A couple other videographers I know are using them and really like the units. You can record in WAV and they are 1/2 inch thick. Very petite. $110 US.

I find the Zoom bulky and have complained about it before, but I gave up complaining and the truth is it works almost every time.

Zoom should make an H1 without the XY mic just for those that like to use it simply with their own lav mics. That would eliminate the bulbous part that makes it too bulky in the groom's jacket pocket.

Somewhere on the net I saw a video or article on removing the top of the H1 permanently. Can't find it right now but this article shows the removal of the mics and that could get you pretty much to the same place:

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Zoom+H1+Handy+Recorder+Microphone+Replacement/19991

Pete

I bought 2 of these to try

Sony ICDUX533B UX Series 4GB Voice Recorder - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BOK96TG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00)

They are really slim, record WAV as well as mp3 and remember your settings when you change batteries - my old Olympus WM311 recorders used to rest themselves at each battery change that was a small but annoying pain

Pete

I bought 2 of these to try

Sony ICDUX533B UX Series 4GB Voice Recorder - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BOK96TG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00)

They are really slim, record WAV as well as mp3 and remember your settings when you change batteries - my old Olympus WM311 recorders used to rest themselves at each battery change that was a small but annoying pain

Pete

Do these definitely record wav files, as a couple of reviews say that it records mp3 only. The spec on the link says records in mp3 and plays back mp3, wmv and wav files.

Roger

I saw a video or article on removing the top of the H1 permanently.

I don't think so. There are many slimmer choices.

I don't think so. There are many slimmer choices.

The problem though is that it seems to come at the price of functionality. For example with the H1's you have proper manual control of levels, a very effective auto-levels function if you need it, high rate recording options should you need that for heavy duty editing, a low-pass filter just one switch away, and a female 1/4"x20 socket on the back for easy mounting.

I got one of the small Olympus models but I find I keep it just for emergencies such as strapping it to a venue mic. The H1's are borderline for pocket use for sure but I might try the mic / upper housing removal trick if I damage one of my 4. But my preferred route is a Sennheiser G3 transmitter, its small slim and looks the part. I haven't had any interference problems with any of my 3 kits but my main region does not have many hotspots where you might expect multiple users at work. I never need to scan for available frequencies, I simply have each set to a permanent different frequency.

I reckon that everyone should have just one Senny kit to use with the groom. Much of the rest of the time you can get away with hiding H1's or suchlike in nearby flowers or on tabletops etc but so often there is no suitable place in a church other than on the groom. Near new 2nd hand kits go for around £400 on Ebay and often they are unused having been bought by people who thought they would use them but never got around to it; no point in paying full retail price.

Pete

Do these definitely record wav files, as a couple of reviews say that it records mp3 only. The spec on the link says records in mp3 and plays back mp3, wmv and wav files.

Roger

It records LPCM 44.1khz 16bits in WAV format

Having said they're great I've had one stop mid recording even with the hold button enabled - I assumed it was my fault for not recharging the battery but it still had a half charge!

The problem though is that it seems to come at the price of functionality. For example with the H1's you have proper manual control of levels, a very effective auto-levels function if you need it, high rate recording options should you need that for heavy duty editing, a low-pass filter just one switch away, and a female 1/4"x20 socket on the back for easy mounting.
Pete

I had to stop using the ALC on the H1 because of the 3db jumps during quiet moments. When the speaker would pause for a few seconds and then start speaking the ALC would increase and then drop by at least 3db at a time, very noticeable. All my Yamaha's have very good, smooth ALC.

Tim- I find the same problem with the H1 Alc, it drops considerably on any sudden boise or thump, but seems to take a while to come back to full volume. There is no way to shorten the release time or db drop, so I usually ignore the Alc.

Pete- well that's quite clear that it records wav, but a bit of a concen over the stopping while recording.

Roger

Having said they're great, I've had one stop mid recording even with the hold button enabled - I assumed it was my fault for not recharging the battery but it still had a half charge!

I gave up on rechargeable batteries a long time ago, at least for weddings. Too quirky. I always use a fresh battery per recorder at each wedding. They're cheap enough and we're getting paid enough.

I reckon that everyone should have just one Senny kit to use with the groom.
Pete

The Sennheiser G3 have a great reputation. But I ditched wireless mics in favor of recorders a while back. Probably going on 8 years now. The hassles dealing with possible interference and mild to heavy static were the deal breaker for me. It's just not worth it. I Started with MiniDisc, then iRivers, and now Olympus. The units I'm using allow a high quality WAV file and the ability to manually adjust the recording level. They're thinner than the iRivers and half as think as the H1.

Yes the auto-levels on the H1's can be testing for sure. I find its best when there is always some ambient sound going on, but for situation where there are complete silences of several seconds at a time .... more problematic and maybe have to cut between tracks. Attached to a lectern just for a reading or on a table in front of a wedding breakfast speechmaker ..... great. With a lav on a person, manual levels at around 85%.

I hadn't read of the Yam's being smoother but surely that must be at some cost.

DRG - funny how our experiences differ. I use nothing but rechargeables - but I do use good brands, mostly Eneloops and regularly give them a full recondition using a bank of 4 Maha MH-C9000's:

Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Fast Smart Charger for AA: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maha-MH-C9000-Wizard-Charger-Battery/dp/B003DIGKOG)

I have to be into heavy duty AA management anyway because of using multiple cells for numerous flashguns and their battery packs.

The Senny G3's are a long way ahead of the G2's and G1's, plus the usable frequencies are now more defined and regulated - in the UK at least - so they may be worth another look at. I find the G3's particularly valuable if I'm taking a feed off the DJs deck for the dancing as I can adjust the levels on the fly rather than have to go back to a recorders location.

Pete

I use plenty of rechargeables for non-wedding stuff (flashlights mostly). I just feel better about using a nice, fresh new battery with the audio recorders.

Peter - does the Sony recorder give you any trouble with drifting during editing since it only records WAV at 44.1khz and not 48khz? Or do you record using an MP3 setting?

DR Gates - How has your experience been with the Olympus DM620? Any editing problems like audio drift?

Trying to choose between the two recorders cause I have to buy two or three and I want them all to be the same model. Currently using three different models and I always run into trouble trying to remember record setup with each unit, usually quick run and gun at weddings where managing time is very valuable.
Thanks

All of these recorders can drift slightly in relation to the video on long sequences such as a ceremony. That's not a problem if you are using more than one camera though, as the video clips can be edited to the continuous audio track. I use Magix Video ProX and can synch any clip to the audio very easily. You should also be able to use Pluraleyes to do the same thing. If each clip is ony a few minutes long, slippage won't really be a problem.

Roger