Hmmm....maybe keep my FS700 as a B cam and try to figure out how to
buy the FS7 as an A cam? And then shoot in 4K with the FS7 and make
it look like I am shooting with 3 cams????? Oh, the options.......
Sounds like a sweet plan!

My only way to afford the FS7 would be to sell my FS700.
But then I would be stuck with no decent b-cam. But a better camera for the future.

I only buy things when I can pay them at all at once. I live pretty much hand to mouth with very irregular income. I sold my EA50 so I think I could swing the FS7 just barely if I sold the FS700 as well.

And for someone who is always broke this is really big decisions ;)

Just not sure I wanna go through the chore of selling another camera either. Damn, that stuff takes time and energy sometimes!

I ended up going with DVinfo sponsor Abel Cine! Wanted to get in on first shipments!

They are selling for MSRP - doesn't that seem high since they tend to discount cameras such as PMW 200 or are we seeing the old supply and demand equation?

For example the F5 is listed on the Sony site for $19,400 and both Abel Cine and B & H sell it for $3,000 less.

Dmitri,

Yeah, I actually run my business the same way. Cash only, I have never
once bought anything for my business on credit. I've had a pretty good year,
so if the camera was to come out before the years end, there is a small
possibility that it could be a 'tax time' business purchase to decrease
my tax burden. But I am not holding my breath on that happening.
I'll just continue to watch for news on it. In the meantime, my FS700
has been getting me a lot of business.

They are selling for MSRP - doesn't that seem high since they tend to discount cameras such as PMW 200 or are we seeing the old supply and demand equation?

For example the F5 is listed on the Sony site for $19,400 and both Abel Cine and B & H sell it for $3,000 less.
Its the holding price for now. Dealers will be notified of street pricing on Monday. I was told if that pricing is lower which it is, I'll receive that price.

On the CVP.COM (British) website the PXW-FS7K (with lens) is $11,704. Perhaps US street price will be the same or a bit lower?

Yep, currently listed for £6,718.80 on CVP for the BODY ONLY version. That's not much more than a FS700 brand new.

B&H LINK PXW FS7 $9999.00
Sony COMPACT 4K XDCAM W/SUPR 35 CMOS SENSOR PXW-FS7 B&H Photo


Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera, Super 35 CMOS Sensor, with the New Servo Zoom E-Mount Lens FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS $12599.00
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera with Super 35 CMOS Sensor (Body-Only) $9599.00
http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=PXW+FS7

Hopefully those prices will change tomorrow as Sony announces street prices (see post from Monday Isa). On the 13K price for the FS7K(camera + Lens) we should expect at least 2 to 2.5K reduction (I hope).

I ended up going with DVinfo sponsor Abel Cine! Wanted to get in on first shipments!

Just did the same thing (with Abel Cine). Did you opt for the FS7K (bundled lens) or just the body? They told me there is only one other person on that list (Body + lens) and now I am #2

Abel Cine just posted street price for the PXW-FS7K (including lens) as $ 10,499.00!!!

Sony is making a HUGE investment in FE lenses. (They just announced a few more very nice new ones this morning)

We know about the new Sony FF cine lens...that really is better suited to a FF sensor. (because of crop factor)

We know that the A7s is the best low light light performer that Sony has. (because of it's new FF sensor)

We Know that Sony rarely builds a sensor for one single camera model only....

How would you feel if you purchased an FS7 today....only for Sony to announce an "FS1" with the same body and form factor...but with that A7s FF sensor? (I bet they would lock it to 8 bit only for the FF - loving DSLR crowd..for $5,000+)

Sony is now missing an entry "100" level 4K camera.

Hmmmm...NAB 2015?

We KNOW more FF video cameras are on the way from Sony....

CT

B&H LINK PXW FS7 $9999.00
Sony COMPACT 4K XDCAM W/SUPR 35 CMOS SENSOR PXW-FS7 B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082825-REG/sony_pxw_fs7_compact_4k_xdcam_w_supr.html)


Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera, Super 35 CMOS Sensor, with the New Servo Zoom E-Mount Lens FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS $12599.00
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera with Super 35 CMOS Sensor (Body-Only) $9599.00
PXW FS7 : Buy or Learn at Adorama (http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=PXW+FS7)

UPDATED STREET PRICE.
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera, Super 35 CMOS Sensor, with the New Servo Zoom E-Mount Lens FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS $10499.00
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera with Super 35 CMOS Sensor (Body-Only) $7999.00

Thoughts on how the FS7 compares to the Blackmagic Ursa or AJA Cion? Outside of the fact that this thing appears to be real, and the other two are, as of yet, vaporware.

Thoughts on how the FS7 compares to the Blackmagic Ursa or AJA Cion? Outside of the fact that this thing appears to be real, and the other two are, as of yet, vaporware.

they will all produce a great image. big difference is how friendly/easily they'll be to work with. in order of usability from worst to best: ursa, cion, fs7

Thoughts on how the FS7 compares to the Blackmagic Ursa or AJA Cion? Outside of the fact that this thing appears to be real, and the other two are, as of yet, vaporware.
Technically, the sensor seems to be the same as in the F5 and that must weigh heavily in this cameras favour.

And for "client confidence" I'd far rather turn up with a camera that had something like "Sony", "Panasonic" or "Canon" on the side for an expensive paid shoot. If the competition were a lot cheaper for the same bang, well maybe, but the FS7 itself seems to offer a lot for the money. Why then experiment with other brands?

The Ursa doesn't seem to have a eyepiece viewfinder, which personally would rule it out for me for most outdoor and on the shoulder work.

Just did the same thing (with Abel Cine). Did you opt for the FS7K (bundled lens) or just the body? They told me there is only one other person on that list (Body + lens) and now I am #2I went body only. Glad to see the $7,999 price!!! :D

....How would you feel if you purchased an FS7 today....only for Sony to announce an "FS1" with the same body and form factor...but with that A7s FF sensor? (I bet they would lock it to 8 bit only for the FF - loving DSLR crowd..for $5,000+)

Sony is now missing an entry "100" level 4K camera.

Hmmmm...NAB 2015?

We KNOW more FF video cameras are on the way from Sony....

CTFor me personally it wouldn't phase me at all. If delivery of my FS7 is October I would have put the camera to work from October-June if that new camera is released at that time. That's 9 months the FS7 will have been working paying itself off probably twice by then. A FS1 will be 8-bit Long Gop in 4K but in HD can be 10bit 4:2:2 long Gop 50mbps like the PXW-X70. I hope it does come out for the lower end market. A cheaper 4K solution even if it has the A7s sensor.

Has anybody any thoughts about that SELP28135G lens that comes with the FS7 kit?

Nice lens but:

It is 28-135... (the equivalent of an 42-202.5mm on the FS7 S35 sensor) so I consider this a telezoom. Not nearly wide enough for daily use.

Yup!

I don't think they really made this lens for the FS7 or even really so much for the FF A7s.

I think it's intended for 1 or 2 more future FF "pro" camcorders. I strongly suspect that an "FS1" will have a FF sensor and it's pointed at the DSLR full frame sensor guys. (Canon 5D-type folks with about 5 or 6 thousand to spend..tops)

An A7s motherboard and sensor mounted into an FS7 body locked down to 8bit UHD to protect the more expensive FS7.

I'm definitely getting this lens for my A7s. (Anyone know if the A7s will pass a LANC signal to it's E mount?)

CT

I still can't understand the rationality to pair a FF lens with a S35 camera. The added weight and the lack of wide angle can't be compensated with any benefits. This lens can be a perfect much for A7s, but its out of place with this camera. Actually only a7 and the FF camcorder can utilize the lens to its full potential.


Of course maybe this lens implies the existence of a future professional FF camcorder with A7s sensor and better codecs. :)
Does anyone knows something that can validate this hypothesis?

Has anybody any thoughts about that SELP28135G lens that comes with the FS7 kit?

Nice lens but:

It is 28-135... (the equivalent of an 42-202.5mm on the FS7 S35 sensor) so I consider this a telezoom. Not nearly wide enough for daily use.

Do you also think that max of F4 will significantly affect the low light performance of the camera?

The comments on the first videos coming out of Sony mentioned using this lens under a wide variety of shooting conditions - I am having some second thoughts about it though...

Do you also think that max of F4 will significantly affect the low light performance of the camera? ...
Probably not.... because a large sensor camera will tend to be more sensitive (higher ISO for given s/n) than a smaller format one. So smaller f stop - higher ISO and they balance out.

I have heard that thinking of f stop alone in regards to sensitivity is irrelevant in isolation - the determining factor is really the size of the lens in terms of light gathering ability. Whether that glass then gets used with big sensor/long focal length or smaller sensor/shorter focal length is then irrelevant. Think about it...... :-)

The only way to improve low light ability is with a bigger diameter lens.

Have any questions been answered about output recording while internal recording at the same time? < do you lose output when you hit record? >
Also having an HD preview via SDI or HDMI while recording 4K internally would be a nice feature. Is this possible?
And lastly... has anyone seen those fast XQD G Series 400MB/s Memory Cards for sale anywhere?

These higher end models shouldn't act like crippled DSLRs and change picture format when the record button is pressed. My XDCAM for example always outputs the same picture format even when recording. It's an artificial limit placed by people like Nikon and Canon in lower end DSLRs.

Do you also think that max of F4 will significantly affect the low light performance of the camera?

I'm not really worried about the F4: the FS7 sensor is rated at 2000 iso, so it should be sensitive enough and will work fine with an F4 aperture. We will have to see about image noise. Besides: a full frame cinema zoom lens in 2.8 would be incredibly bulky and heavy (and dito price tag).

But that said, I tried the FS7 with 28-135 at the IBC Sony booth and it gave 'low light' warnings all the time. Camera was set to 0dB. This was indoor with normal artificial lighting you can expect at an exhibition.

The lens clearly was a prototype: it reacted very slow to focussing and zooming, The zoom ring drives a zoom-motor and it was slow and lagging. The minimum focus distance was in no way 40cm as they say in the specs. More like 1.2 meter... But the thing that worries most about this otherwise very interesting lens is the lack of wide angle...

From the Sony booth @IBC I also learned this 28-135 lens is targeted at the A7s camera as well. There was one on demo. Didn't try that one.

Erwin - Your assessment of the lens and how it works with this particular camera is disconcerting. How can Sony bundle a lens with this camera and expect their customers to be happy?

Could there have been some other factors causing "low light" readings on the camera - was the shutter speed 1/50-1/60; had someone inadvertently used an ND filter. In an exhibition hall my PMW 200 would have no problem at 0 gain. I just hope that when my FS7K arrives, I'm not sorely disappointed with the low light performance (at least in reference to the PMW 200).

At least in Amercia, the PZ 28-135 is not really being pushed as a kit lens for the FS7. Even though that kit is availble the kit costs $2500 more than the FS7 alone, exactly the unbundled cost of the PZ 28-135.

I really like the ability to have a servo zoom. Are there other lenses that would be better for FF use on this camera?

The Sony 18-105 and 18-200 power zooms will work with this camera, up to HD 60P. Not for 4K, though.

If you want to save some money for now, you can use these cheaper lenses. Maybe save 4K for good primes.
If I trade in my PMW-300 and get this camera, I think I'll start with the cheaper zooms, as I won't be shooting in 4K.

any word on this having a 2k center scan mode?

The lens was a 'pre-production-prototype' model that was not finalized yet.

So... let's just wait and see when the first reviews drop in with actual production models. Will follow this closely!

In the mean time: what other lens options we have? Must be: E-mount, wide angel, optical stabiliser, electronic controlled iris and focus? (not that I like to use auto focus, but an assisted focus would be nice because the FS7 screen is too small to asses focus)

Does anyone know if you can control the aperture on electronic EF lenses with something like a Metabones adapter?

Does anyone know if you can control the aperture on electronic EF lenses with something like a Metabones adapter?
Yes you can.
IS also work. But AF shouldn't be counted on.

Does anyone remember the days when if you wanted wider, you just screwed on a wide angle adapter? :)

As far as the 28-135 range goes, this is amazing for FF of course and I'll get one for the A7s. For Super35, hey that's a pretty usable range for live event shooting, what is it 42-210ish?

If low light and wide angle are needed... Sigma 18-35 f1.8 on a Speedbooster should do the trick (hurry up and make a cine version of that Sigma!)

Oh and I ordered the body only kit. No price break for getting the lens, so no point.

Dylan, have you found a canadian dealer that accepts pre-order? I can't find any.

No, I went through all the big places and no one had pre-order set up, which is a shame. I went through B&H who are great for shipping up here, reasonable rates, low brokerage (like $15?) and a DVinfo sponsor. I've ordered from both Omega and Abel as well, all equally good to deal with in my experience.

Dylan have you used the Speedbooster on other cameras? I have zero experience with it.

Dylan, have you found a canadian dealer that accepts pre-order? I can't find any.

Just called my guy in Hamilton for you. They aren't as Sony Canada hasn't given then a piece yet.

Dylan have you used the Speedbooster on other cameras? I have zero experience with it.

I do with Dylan's cameras. Works great but I don't use lenses without iris rings. Just rented Dylan's fs700 with the speed booster and mounted some Zeiss lenses. Worked great.

Does anyone remember the days when if you wanted wider, you just screwed on a wide angle adapter? :)

As far as the 28-135 range goes, this is amazing for FF of course and I'll get one for the A7s. For Super35, hey that's a pretty usable range for live event shooting, what is it 42-210ish?

If low light and wide angle are needed... Sigma 18-35 f1.8 on a Speedbooster should do the trick (hurry up and make a cine version of that Sigma!)

Oh and I ordered the body only kit. No price break for getting the lens, so no point.

Cine Version of the Sigma F1.8 18-35mm from China



Customized Cine Lens SIGMA18 35mm F 1 8 EF Film Lens Cinematics V2 for SLR Camer | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Customized-cine-lens-sigma18-35mm-f-1-8-EF-film-Lens-cinematics-V2-for-SLR-Camer-/271523818722?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3f3814ace2#ht_12608wt_1227)

I still can't understand the rationality to pair a FF lens with a S35 camera. The added weight and the lack of wide angle can't be compensated with any benefits. This lens can be a perfect much for A7s, but its out of place with this camera....

I think with the speed of innovation today, cameras are rapidly becoming disposable items. Not so with lenses. Over the past two years, I've made a considerable investment in full frame lenses. (Carl Zeiss 'Contax' primes in my case) FF lenses can always be adapted 'down' to smaller sensors but those who have made a large investment in APS-C lenses for example are usually restricted to that sensor format or smaller.

I use one of the rare Metabones C/Y to E-Mount 'Speed Boosters' with my Zeiss collection which optically compensates for the 'correct' full frame field of view when used on a S35 sensor and of course, offers that extras stop of light. My Zeiss 50mm F1.7 lens becomes a 50mm lens again but with an improved speed of F1.2. The Metabones product also corrects artifacts which can be experienced when using some 35mm 'film' lenses with digital cameras. I've found one of the best ways to get that so called 'film look' with digital cameras is to shoot through 'film' lenses.

As for lens diameter mentioned in another comment, my Zeiss Contax 300mm telephoto lens weighs nearly 2Kg and has a front glass diameter of nearly 5 inches. It is conservatively rated at f4.0 which of course becomes F2.8 with the Speed Booster attached. Even with my 2x extender, I'm achieving 600mm at only F4.0.

Another advantage of Zeiss 'Contax' series of lenses is that they are totally manual, they can easily be 'de-clicked', they all offer massive focus rotation (in the correct direction too) and they share the same wonderful T* coating as Zeiss CP2 'cinema' lenses, at a fraction of the price. (Be quick though, because 'used' prices seem to be rapidly trending up. For example the legendary Contax 21mm F2.8 prime consistently brings $2000 to $2500 second hand on ebay.)

If low light and wide angle are needed... Sigma 18-35 f1.8 on a Speedbooster should do the trick
The Sigma 18-35 f1.8 is an APS-C lens, will cause vignetting if used with a speed booster...

The Sigma 18-35 is DX format lens (similar to s35), so you don't need a speed booster for this lens.

The Sigma 18-35 f1.8 is an APS-C lens, will cause vignetting if used with a speed booster...

Wouldn't it cause problems without the speed booster being made for APS-C sensors?

Wouldn't it cause problems without the speed booster being made for APS-C sensors?

There is no speedbooster for APS-C lenses because their image circle is already sized for APS-C (approximately S35) sensors.

Do you think the Sigma 18-35 would work for low light situations with the FS7? I am concerned about the kit lens available with the camera being F4.

I thought APS-C sensors only went up to a maximum of 28mm or so. Wouldn't there be cropping with a S35 sensor like on the FS7?

Do you think the Sigma 18-35 would work for low light situations with the FS7? I am concerned about the kit lens available with the camera being F4.
I thought APS-C sensors only went up to a maximum of 28mm or so. Wouldn't there be cropping with a S35 sensor like on the FS7?
All I heard is that it works great on S35 sensors (they are almost same size as APS-C).
So with a Metabones adapter (not speed booster) it should work well. Not sure if it's available in a-mount, then you could use the Sony adapter if auto focus is important.

As it's f1.8 it should be good in low light in combination with the FS7.

I use the 18-35mm on my F5 and it's a great combination, produces some extremely nice images. I've stopped using my 24mm and 35mm primes since getting this lens, it's that good. It should also be excellent on the FS7.

The Sony 28-135mm lens is a great all round lens. Sure it would be nice to have a wider lens for some applications but then it would probably end up being something like a 17-70mm f4 in a similar size and weight package, so lacking at the tele end. Being realistic if you want a compact parfocal zoom you are not going to get both wide and long at the same time. But that's the beauty of a camera where you can change the lens.

I like that the lens is full frame. This means I can take just one set of lenses on a shoot that can be used with either my A7s or FS7 once it arrives. The lens is pretty sharp through the zoom range, although it does soften up a little when wide open, but what do you really expect at the price? Remember that a similar parfocal zoom would normally cost 5 times as much. The lenses at IBC were all very early pre-production units so there may be some improvements in IQ and response times between now and delivery in December. CA and other aberrations appeared well controlled. I did notice that there was a lens compensation setting in the FS7's menu so maybe it will be able to correct for CA and other distortions.

I suspect (but do not have knowledge) that this is the first in a line of lenses and that we will see a wide angle zoom and possibly a more telephoto zoom in the future.

Thanks Alister. So can you confirm that the 28-135mm is parfocal? That is, to me, a critical aspect of zoom lenses for video.

Thanks.