The SAR link confirms FS-700 II is getting released at Photokina, but the specs are missing so far (only 4K is known): (SR5) First image of the E-mount FS700II 4K camcorder! | sonyalpharumors (http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-image-of-the-e-mount-fs700ii-4k-camcorder/)

Looks like it graduates from NXCAM to XDCAM... that's always a good thing feature wise and I like the somewhat similarity of the button layout. Same sensor as the F55. Get ready for a flood of used FS700s on eBay.

What an odd looking camera...especially for Sony to make.

This does not look like the same Sony camera that AbleCine teased in their photo.

What about a new FF camcorder? We know that Sony is pushing new FF lenses and has a new FF Cine power zoom model due this year.

Sony's A7s sensor seems to be the "top" dog at the moment. We know that Sony rarely develops a new sensor for one single camera model only. I strongly suspect that we will see another new Sony camera at IBC this year. (or NAB in the spring) I bet that this other camera will have that FF A7s sensor in it.

Hmmm...but how could they market both full frame AND Super35 simultaneously? Could Sony lock a potential FF model to 8 bit only to separate them from S35 10bit models?

Who knows?

Very interesting times at Sony.

That looks disgusting aesthetically.

Let's see what the specs are.

. Same sensor as the F55.
Only said same sensor size as the F55. Not same sensor.

Wow, looks like an actual viewfinder off to the left... though probably just an LCD with the loupetube at least it's in the right spot.

For sale... FS700 cheap!

Am I the only one who likes how it looks?
There's something super35ey about it.

Yup... Some homage to a Bolex there for sure. Integrated shoulder pad as well! Love to see it in person. Reminds me more of the AJA Cion than the BMD Kodiak/Grizzly/Whateverthatthingiscalled...

Ehh,...I'm having a hard time with the way it looks. Maybe it's just a bad photo angle.(hopefully)

I guess the "old" FS700 look grew on my pretty well.

I'm also curious to see the "other" Sony 4k camera that AbleCine has been testing. The teaser picture that they posted was just the 4K logo and what looks to be a cooling vent.

CT

Looks more like a Canon C300. Than a Sony.

Looks more like a Canon C300. Than a Sony.

C300 is tall and flat. This looks more like a combination of an F5 with a CION or Amira to me.

...I'm also curious to see the "other" Sony 4k camera that AbleCine has been testing. The teaser picture that they posted was just the 4K logo and what looks to be a cooling vent.

CT

Hey Cliff, where did you see that teaser pic?

Going back to the integrated shoulder pad... I'm going out on a limb and saying that combined with the EVF type monitor mount and the likely hood of a handle on the right side, this will be the first "proper" camera since JVC HDxxx

I think it looks great. But then that's more about it having a proper form factor. I have an FS700 and although it's capeable whoever designed it didn't speak to many shooters thats for sure!

I'm not sure this is a FS700 II though !? - I bet its a new model and it will almost certainly been de-tuned to protect the marketing structure for the 5 and 55 !

However - If it has HD broadcast legal codecs/ high speed and 4k....wrapped up in that form factor. I will take one!

I am confused here - Isn't the FS700 considered a handheld camera (body is 3lbs and 7 1/2" long) - whereas the picture of its "replacement" seems to be a huge shoulder mount broadcast type camera. Could someone set me straight?

For anybody that hasn't already seen this:

New Sony 4K camera teased, source describes it as ‘F55 in DSLR body’ | EOSHD.com (http://www.eoshd.com/content/12205/new-sony-4k-camera-teased-source-describes-f55-dslr-body)

This is the "other" Sony 4K camera that is possibly out there.

CT

For anybody that hasn't already seen this:

New Sony 4K camera teased, source describes it as ‘F55 in DSLR body’ | EOSHD.com (http://www.eoshd.com/content/12205/new-sony-4k-camera-teased-source-describes-f55-dslr-body)

This is the "other" Sony 4K camera that is possibly out there.

CT

It's actually this and not a new camera. Fiber link attachment for the F-series cameras

I think it looks great. But then that's more about it having a proper form factor. I have an FS700 and although it's capeable whoever designed it didn't speak to many shooters thats for sure!

I'm not sure this is a FS700 II though !? - I bet its a new model and it will almost certainly been de-tuned to protect the marketing structure for the 5 and 55 !

However - If it has HD broadcast legal codecs/ high speed and 4k....wrapped up in that form factor. I will take one!

I agree. It looks like a different model entirely to fit a gap.

The FS100 and FS700 looked very similar to each other. If they came out with a FS700 II or FS1000 or what ever, it would still have similarities aesthetically to the originals.

I guess we can only speculate around the hype until we hear the news. I for one won't be selling my FS700 any time soon.

It's actually this and not a new camera. Fiber link attachment for the F-series cameras

Good catch. You got a great eye!

Damn...my bubble was just popped...lol

It's actually this and not a new camera. Fiber link attachment for the F-series cameras

Comparing the pictures, the operator's side doesn't match nor the carrying handle, although that doesn't meant to say that they're not related cameras, but they are different.

It looks like it takes XQD cards.

Assuming this announcement is referring to the same camera (watch the interviews) it sounds like the camera will not be a huge shoulder cam but still in the handheld variety (note the woman interviewed said she would like a camera "easy to carry around")

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/broadcast-products-be-first-to-discover-true-freedom-of-expression

Not the best looking promo video, nonetheless i think this will be a pro cinematography camera for several reasons. First, it looks very FS700ish. Second, the video teaser on Sony's site is posted under Broadcast & Pro A/V---Cinematography.

Based on that awful promo video, it sounds like a portable pro-sumer camcorder aimed at Youtubers / Bloggers and the like.

Please pardon my ignorance (I'm just a hobbyist) but could someone enlighten me about the depth of field of the Super35mm camera (like the FS700 or it's upcoming replacement) compared with say a PMW 200/300 (which I have used for years). Does it have to be shallow most of the time or something I can just control with the proper f stops and judicious use of ND filters for outside shots. I do prefer a longer depth of field for my outdoor video shots and not the "pure cinematic" look of the shallow depth of field.

Yes, you can control the depth of field by playing with the aperture / iris settings. The higher the F-stop the less "background" blur you will get. Rest assured.

. I do prefer a longer depth of field for my outdoor video shots and not the "pure cinematic" look of the shallow depth of field.

Just to say that "pure cinematic" isn't all about a shallow depth of field, some of the most cinematic films ever made have a large depth of field and some of least cinematic have a shallow depth of field. But yes, you can use the f stops to control your depth of field more with a larger sensor, specially with high sensitivity, which gives greater options with less light.

Thank you James and Brian for your comments. I am actually excited if this new camera comes in at a decent price point (8-12K range) that I could replace my PMW 200 and obtain better low light performance, dynamic range and image quality. I guess we will find out a week from today (unless there are further leaks along the way).

One of the big questions I have is how is Sony going to market a new S35 camera against a potential new FF camera? It would be really odd for Sony to build this amazing A7s sensor for an A7s "only". It's reasonable to expect that Sony will move it into other "pro" models. (I don't imagine Sony selling that chip to other companies)

"If" that happens,..how in the Hell will Sony market those two formats against each other? Super35 being much more of a "Cine" standard and FF video being something different for the rig happy DSLR type guys.

If they do bring in a FF "FS100 mkII" I would suspect that they will allow all the A7s low light crazyness and SLog2 but lock it down to 8bit only? Maybe they would save the 10bit for the "upper" Super35 cameras? (even though they will be less sensitive)

Dunno how but Sony will be forced to cripple some aspects of any FF camcorder performance to keep it from running over the Super35 models. (including the current F5/55)

Could you imagine a "FS100 mkII" with A7s FF sensor, SLog2 and internal XAVC-S codec runinng cool with long recording times for $6000?? They would sell ZILLIONS of those things! (and zillions of Sony FF lenses)

I suppose an 8bit codec and 8bit output lock down (with HDMI1.4) is the best trick?

It seems that the current F5 and F55 are sitting in a very odd price point now. (especially the F5)

I wonder if the Sony marketing people are pulling their hair out trying to manage the HD vs. 4k transition. They are telling us: "Yes, buy our GREAT 1080 products,...Wait!!...no, no buy our even better new 4K cameras instead"

Interesting!

One of the big questions I have is how is Sony going to market a new S35 camera against a potential new FF camera? It would be really odd for Sony to build this amazing A7s sensor for an A7s "only". It's reasonable to expect that Sony will move it into other "pro" models. (I don't imagine Sony selling that chip to other companies)

You're missing the point - S35 is/was THE standard in motion picture production for a century (give or take) with a very well developed set of tools. The Full Frame advent is an anomaly that exists SOLELY because of the dSLR "revolution" which stemmed from using stills cameras (and lenses) to capture moving pictures.

There are still very few TRUE cinema lenses that fit FF cameras for a reason.

Yes, all the hobbyists and new-to-cinema folks are RAVING about FF but frankly, it isn't being embraced widespread in The Big Industry.

Will FF sell cameras and lenses? Sure. Will it drive a complete revolution of the industry as a whole? Doubt it. In fact, I see it in reverse - when the DX/Crop Sensor dSLRs started appearing, there were VERY few wide lenses for the format. Over the past 10 or so years we have seen an amazing number of rectilinear (or NEAR rectilinear) lenses hit the market, all to the benefit of the S35 dSLR shooter.

Just a matter of perspective. Pardon the pun.

Of course, if FF becomes synonymous with 4k (or greater) resolution, it COULD become positioned as the "evolution" of IMAX or 70mm.

You're missing the point - S35 is/was THE standard in motion picture production for a century (give or take) with a very well developed set of tools. The Full Frame advent is an anomaly that exists SOLELY because of the dSLR "revolution" which stemmed from using stills cameras (and lenses) to capture moving pictures.

There are still very few TRUE cinema lenses that fit FF cameras for a reason.

Yes, all the hobbyists and new-to-cinema folks are RAVING about FF but frankly, it isn't being embraced widespread in The Big Industry.

Will FF sell cameras and lenses? Sure. Will it drive a complete revolution of the industry as a whole? Doubt it. In fact, I see it in reverse - when the DX/Crop Sensor dSLRs started appearing, there were VERY few wide lenses for the format. Over the past 10 or so years we have seen an amazing number of rectilinear (or NEAR rectilinear) lenses hit the market, all to the benefit of the S35 dSLR shooter.

Just a matter of perspective. Pardon the pun.

I didn't miss that point and I certainly agree with everything you stated. A long industry tradition and history is behind Super35, no doubt.

However, pixel density and sensor photosite size are becoming more and more important in today and tomorrow's 4k demands. (and eventually 8K in the far off future) The laws of physics and light properties favor larger sensors in some key categories.

When a 4k super35 sensor is compared to a 4K FF sensor in low light and dynamic range, the FF sensor is likely to win. Yes, low light and DR are not everything. Lens options are important too. And, the shallow depth of field that FF produces can be very undesirable too many times. Sometimes you don't want to fight the shallow DoF, other times you want more of it.

Another strength that FF has is that is CAN do Super35 in cropped shooting if you want. There is nothing forcing you to uses the entire sensor!...but the option always exists.

I'm simply saying that the A7s,...more specifically, it's sensor and motherboard can me moved over to a "Pro" camera body, given a full 4K codec with no recording limits and that camera will be a monster seller.

I do believe that if this fictitious future FF Pro Sony camera had a 10bit codec with 10bit SDI out?...wow, we all know that it will seriously affect that sales of any Super35 camera today or even tomorrow for that fact.

With the right sensor pixel count, you can use your Super35 lenses or your FF lenses all you want. I don't see it as a DSLR "fad" anymore and I dont think the FF format is ever going away. Because of it's performance and flexibility, I expect it to gain more and more fans as the years go on. (as more Cine lenses come to market)

I have loved S35 for several years but now I have a new A7s. Woah,...I'm really starting to love that FF sensor even more than Super35 now. It's shocking to see how good the A7s is and I want more of it.

I disagree, the A7s is a great camera, I have one. But the rolling shutter is not something I would tolerate in a true dedicated video camera. I think it's fine in the A7s, which is a half way house camera useful for some very specific applications and covert or low budget shoots.

For a proper video camera you really want less rolling shutter than the A7s has.

While you can choose between FF and s35 capture you introduce compromises when you do this. If you use the size of the FF sensor to maximise your pixel size, then when you switch to s35, then you may not have enough pixels for 4K (this is the case with the A7s). If you set up the s35 mode so that you have 4K's worth of pixels then the possible sensitivity and DR benefits of having a larger sensor are lost as the pixels will be no bigger than any other s35 camera.

You're missing the point - S35 is/was THE standard in motion picture production for a century (give or take) with a very well developed set of tools. The Full Frame advent is an anomaly that exists SOLELY because of the dSLR "revolution" which stemmed from using stills cameras (and lenses) to capture moving pictures.

There are still very few TRUE cinema lenses that fit FF cameras for a reason.

You're forgetting about VistaVision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VistaVision). It's been around since the 50s, shot on standard 35mm film run horizontally instead of vertically through the gate (just like a 35mm SLR). It's still used for special effects shots to get higher resolution than normal (vertical 4perf) 35mm frames. With Hollywood it's all about reducing costs, S35 was good enough so why go with VistaVision when it uses twice as much film?

You're still 99% correct though, but with the new generations of cameras getting better and better for less money (AND without the ongoing cost of film) I can absolutely see the DSLR cinema guys moving to Digital VistaVision Cinema (that has a nice ring to it) and helping to make that the norm.

I disagree, the A7s is a great camera, I have one. But the rolling shutter is not something I would tolerate in a true dedicated video camera. I think it's fine in the A7s, which is a half way house camera useful for some very specific applications and covert or low budget shoots.

For a proper video camera you really want less rolling shutter than the A7s has.

While you can choose between FF and s35 capture you introduce compromises when you do this. If you use the size of the FF sensor to maximise your pixel size, then when you switch to s35, then you may not have enough pixels for 4K (this is the case with the A7s). If you set up the s35 mode so that you have 4K's worth of pixels then the possible sensitivity and DR benefits of having a larger sensor are lost as the pixels will be no bigger than any other s35 camera.

That's true Alister, it's a valid point and one that I too have been mulling around in my head. (Pixel density when using S35 crop with FF sensor)

Agreed,..I guess its fair to say that a FF sensor cropped for S35 use is not a true replacement for a real S35 sensor. I would have liked to the A7s sensor with a tad more overall pixels. (maybe 14million?) I would have given up a percentage of low light capability to get a few more photosites in it's Super35 crop. (just a little bit more)

As far as rolling shutter, yes, it's not great on the A7s. I'm OK with it though. I'm big into slow moving pans and I'm not shooting ultra fast moving objects. So far, I have had no issues to date with it.

How can Sony take the A7s sensor and scan it faster? Is it just a matter of doubling up on the processor speed? For a Sony Pro camera, can they add two Bionz-X processors? Or, can they increase the processor clock speed to read that data faster?

Hell, that they can read out every pixel, debayer it and scale it all in real time is pretty damn cool.

I'm wondering how this can be done in future Pro FF models.

Good points indeed.

CT

(I take back what I said about wanting a few more pixels on that A7s...On second thought, I don't want to to give ANY low light back! lol)

You're forgetting about VistaVision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VistaVision). It's been around since the 50s, shot on standard 35mm film run horizontally instead of vertically through the gate (just like a 35mm SLR).

A perfect analogy. I HAD heard of VistaVision but it doesn't stick in the brain nearly as well as 70mm and IMAX so my too-many-years, too-many-beers brain must have let that go some years ago.

Thanks for making a perfect point - a great SPECIAL USE solution, much as Alister says as well.

How can Sony take the A7s sensor and scan it faster? Is it just a matter of doubling up on the processor speed? For a Sony Pro camera, can they add two Bionz-X processors? Or, can they increase the processor clock speed to read that data faster?

I'm no engineer but I'd imagine heat and power consumption would play in as well. And you may end up in the same sort of situation JVC was in when they paired two chip readouts to get 720P60 out of their GY-HD series of shouldercams. It got worked out but the initial cameras struggled. Plus I don't know if the processors were designed to co-process and interleave to allow that - sort of a genlock required so that the chips would be in sync to alternate readout.

Yes, scan a sensor faster and heat becomes an issue, or more importantly getting rid of the heat so the sensor doesn't become noisy. This is why most of the 4K pro cameras have fan cooling.

Phillip Bloom posted some new info and some of his speculation: IBC, free talks, Critics and more info on the new Sony XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder! | Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.net/2014/09/08/ibc/)

Apparently Sony confirmed this will NOT be a FS700 replacement.

Feel sorry for the sellers of FS700's on ebay recently ... they must of sold for atleast 500-1000 less than they should of at pre-owned prices due to people thinking a FS700 replacement is on the way!

Hmm, wonder if this will be priced just below the F5 if it isn't a FS700 replacement...

Rumor now is around $8,000.

Interestingly, Alister "teased" in the comments section that apparently there is something in that leaked photo that no one has noticed yet...

I've been pixel peeping for almost an hour.

I think perhaps I need a life.

Looking forward to hearing the news on the 12th...

Relocating hand grip? Similar to the C-series maybe.