Is it possible that the EA 50 is a dark horse? Its been out for a couple years now. When it came out I thought this camera would be the first of many shoulder mount DSLRs or a least a new version with some of the things the EA50 lacks. I dont even see any new lens support anymore. do you think what we have will be all we ever have?

Hi Randy

What do you want that it doesn't have. I find it very hard to fault it and using manual lenses is no big deal. Sony lenses are at crazy prices anyway so I would much rather have awesome third party lenses and use them in manual ..never had a wedding issue in manual even with the Sigma 18-35 F1.8

Coming from my HMC Panasonics I found the Sony had so much more feature wise anyway!! The Panny's like the 150's had terrible EVF's ..so tiny so moving to a loupe on the LCD was absolute magic for me.

Make a list of what you think is missing and why you need it and maybe someone from Sony will take a hint?

Chris

If Sony release an EA-60 with built-in ND filters, I'll be throwing my money at them.

Other than that, I don't think the camera could be improved much. Maybe a better sensor?

Hi Jody

Did you sort out your adapter BTW?? What would be really good would be to be able to choose 3 models..The Sony Lens mount as it stands, a Nikon lens mount with full communication (Randy would like that!) and a Canon mount ...no adapters at all just buy the EA-50N or EA-50C depending on what your still lenses are!

If they put in a better sensor then it would clash with the FS100 so that won't happen! I would like to find a zoom that stays at F1.8 and has a slightly longer range than the Sigma 18-35 but for my budget that wouldn't happen. I am tending to not use the stock lens at all now at wedding receptions but just the 18-35 and seldom need a light too!! I need to find something like an 18-70 mm zoom now that is at least a constant F2.8 for Church and inside shoots.

Chris

Hi Jody

Did you sort out your adapter BTW??

Well, the error messages that pop up in Auto Iris mode still occur, so I can only really use it in manual mode during shoots. I tend to rely on the auto iris quite a bit for sports event and other fast-paced shoots, so I'm having to change my shooting style. It's a bit of extra mucking around, so I'm regretting paying as much as I did for the adapter when I could have got a "dumb" adapter for half the price.

Aside from that, I'm loving the Sigma 18-35 f1.8... fantastic lens! Although as you said, a bit more zoom would be nice at f1.8!

Well for one is a ND filter, The guy from Sony at a interview before the camera was released even said that a ND filter would come in s future release, That was 2 years ago. I know you have great luck with manual but I need Auto Focus with this HD camera in particular. Mainly because the viewfinder doesnt have a sharpness mode like the HMC150 had. The main thing that disturbs me is I just dont see any new NEX lenses coming out for the EA50 the 18-105 at f4 was a a good step in the right direction but thats pretty much the last lens that has been released for it that I know of.

Hi Randy

You have to be kidding surely? The HMC 150 has a terrible EVF and it's so tiny (I think 0.5") that I really can't see it being used for focus. You don't need the EA-50 screen to focus anyway ..trust the peaking ..it's more accurate than your eyes!! Just set it on yellow and medium level and your focus worries are over!

With AF at weddings the stock lens doesn't focus very well and I have often had to scrap footage especially during guest interviews. I use the Sigma and preset the lens to 2.5' and 9 times out of 10 I'm in focus ...my peaking is on all the time. I have a soccer match to shoot on Sunday and that will be on AF with the stock lens but in bright sun there is no issues!!

Hmmm ND filters ...I don't use them cos I don't have to! Ok in bright sun I cannot achieve a shallow DOF but I really don't want to shoot romantic footage in bright sunshine anyway!!! There is no issue with image degradation like the 150 ...On the Sony you can shoot at F16 and 1/600th shutter and the picture is still good!!! If you need ND's for depth of field or motion freeze issues then a variable ND is much better than internal switchable ND's anyway ... I liked the auto ND's in my HMC80's but the ones on the AC130's used to put a flash on the footage when you switched them in!!

Chris

the HMC 150 has a EVF detail button under the viewfinder that makes it very sharp and easy to focus. I admit I cannot focus well without it. I will try yellow on the focus assist mine is set to red I guess I do need to add that all the after market lenses I have used are "used" So maybe I need to try a "new" one. I think its good to talk like this from time to time because there are things I may have missed BUT it does seem like theres not a lot of Sony NEX lenses coming out.

the ea50 was intentionally limited from the very start (for marketing purposes, which means money). For example: do we really believe that at Sony's don't know how to build a servo zoom that doesn't jerk? Of course they know. The other problem is the poor low light: again other models seem to do much better so again do we believe that at Sony's don't know how to process a sensor? Of course they know. (they MAKE the sensor by the way). So let's take it for what it is: a good camera for the price and sony's marketing placement. the thing is that we must measure if the intentional limitations are good enough for what we do.

the ea50 was intentionally limited from the very start (for marketing purposes, which means money). For example: do we really believe that at Sony's don't know how to build a servo zoom that doesn't jerk? Of course they know. The other problem is the poor low light: again other models seem to do much better so again do we believe that at Sony's don't know how to process a sensor? Of course they know. (they MAKE the sensor by the way). So let's take it for what it is: a good camera for the price and sony's marketing placement. the thing is that we must measure if the intentional limitations are good enough for what we do.

This sounds very reasonable. (Thats problaby also the reason why it has no SDI output - No need for FBas IMHO...)
Honestly, my only concern on the EA50 is simply the lowlight factor. I shoot a lot of concerts and need something like the stock lens (incl. live zooming). Often I have to use gains above 15db.
If the SELP18105 wouldnt just have f4 I would take it at once. I Still didnt find an affordable alternative.

My biggest gripe is the lame exposure control. The gain/iso settings locked through the menu at 3 positions is ridiculous in a $3,000 camera.
Other than that, (and the lens) i really like it.

I guess I would have liked to see a few things in future versions. 1. ND filter 2. Since the camera isnt great in low light id like to ability to control all the levels of gain through a wheel 3. A second card slot. I would have like to see a couple lenses from Sony for it like a 28-75 @ 2.8 and a 80-200 @ 2.8 but I havent seen a new lens for the NEX in a long time if I am right and it is a one of a kind camera we may actually see even the current lenses discontinued in the next year or so.

I don't have an issue with the ISO ... The fact that you can use manual everything selectively and leave gain/iso on auto BUT limit it to 21db seems fine .. I have been running gain at 24db but the image is a bit noisy on the stock lens. If you controlled ISO manually all you would do is rotate the wheel until you got enough light without any noise which is really the same thing as letting the camera do it for you as long as you limit the gain.

At least be thankful you have a camera you can change lenses..these were my first with interchangeable lenses so I was like a kid with a new toy. Fixed lenses are convenient but there are huge advantages to using other lenses.

After having Panasonic AC-130's before my EA-50's I don't mind manual operation..the Panny forced me to get used to it as their AF was worse than useless ...people that use the 130 or 160 always use it in full manual anyway. I think having a built-in SS drive is nicer than a dual slot .... even adding the FMU to the price it's still a good value for money camera.

Chris

I don't have an issue with the gain either. I limit it to 18dB and set it to auto. On the odd occasion where I need to select the gain, the 3-position switch does the job.

As for a 2nd SD card slot - this is something I would really like to have. I don't trust SD cards (or any kind of flash memory). I understand that Sony left out the 2nd SD card slot to try and sell their FMU, but it's way too expensive ($1200+ NZD). A 128GB SSD (same sort of memory as the FMU) is around $100. Why is Sony's version so much more expensive? Someone's making a decent profit.

Hey Jody

Call it security ...it's probably safer than a 2nd card slots as you COULD have two bum cards??

GMP is New Zealand have the FMU for NZ$704.00

Sony HXR-FMU128 Flash Memory Unit (http://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A2A541/Sony-HXR-FMU128-Flash-Memory-Unit/)

I really only need it for wedding ceremonies and speeches that cannot be repeated so only need one for now! I just need to get thru the quiet months here then I might just get one for peace of mind more than anything else. You could also use an Atmos recorder BUT then you have to remember to push record on it too! As long as the camera is set up for dual recording the FMU kicks in automatically!!

I find that in a pinch I can get away with 24db on the camera but I rather stay with 21db gain max ....I have yet to see any noticeable noise at 21db ....so do you use 18db max for any reason???

Chris

Hey Chris,

Thanks for that, $704 isn't as bad as I'd thought (although still expensive for what it is).

My main issue with an external recorder is loss of 50p recording. My work is a lot of fast-paced sports events and 50p is a must.

As for the gain, I was just using 18dB to be safe. I might give 21dB a try if it's reasonably clean.

Cheers!

The FMU will do 50P obviously ??

I still use 50i for ALL my shoots ..far less hassle and I feel the bitrate on the camera is too low to handle exposure blowouts in 50P ... Peter Rush has had some nasty posterisation on footage where its over-exposed like shooting with a strong backlight .. I shoot in 50i and then drop to a 25P timeline and it works a treat and no pixellation or posterisation ever!!

Yeah $600 (in Aus) is a bit heavy but then again a Sony 32GB card is close to $100 at VideoPro so 4 of those would be $400.00 alone ... unlike cards the FMU is a one-off cost (I ditch my cards every 6 months)

Chris

The FMU will do 50P obviously ??

I still use 50i for ALL my shoots ..far less hassle and I feel the bitrate on the camera is too low to handle exposure blowouts in 50P ... Peter Rush has had some nasty posterisation on footage where its over-exposed like shooting with a strong backlight .. I shoot in 50i and then drop to a 25P timeline and it works a treat and no pixellation or posterisation ever!!

Yeah $600 (in Aus) is a bit heavy but then again a Sony 32GB card is close to $100 at VideoPro so 4 of those would be $400.00 alone ... unlike cards the FMU is a one-off cost (I ditch my cards every 6 months)

Chris

Yep the FMU will do 50p.

I typically shoot in 25p when I can, but when I need slow-mo (mainly sports events) I use 50p. I haven't played with 50i much... don't you lose a bit of vertical resolution when you deinterlace?

$100 for a 32GB SD card sounds a bit steep. I buy Sandisk Ultra 32GB SDHC cards for about $40 NZ each.

Hi Jody

Me too ..I tend to gravitate to Transcend cos I have never had an issue with them and 16GB are $30.00 here ..I was just comparing to Sony 32GB which are pricey for some reason ...I'm sure if a 3rd party manufacturer made the FMU it would be $300!!

I honestly cannot see any end result difference between 50i and 50P and I have never had anyone question the quality so I stick with 50i as it's more likely to give consistent results at weddings. I found my Panny's at 50P gave pixellation on face cheekbones and Pete has had the same on the EA-50 on facial features. Probably with high actions sports you won't have the issue at all.

Chris

The FMU is brilliant - outrageously priced but for the peace of mind at weddings - well worth it. An alternative is to use the even more ridiculously priced Sony mirroring SD cards (has anyone actually used these?).

Regarding the cameras features I find setting the gain ok (I limit it the 24db) but I'm used to the 3 way switch - it's a throwback from way more expensive professional video cameras of old - people coming to the EA50 from a DSLR background see it differently I guess.

I love the fact that I can use my Canon glass but an 18-200 constant f2.8 NEX lens would save all the painful swapping. My biggest bone of contention is the lack of ND filters (I use a genuis variable ND filter but it's a PITA compared with inbuilt) and the poor and panifully slow servo zoom. All my professional life I've had one hand on the grip with my fingers on the rocker so I can reframe in a flash - and my other hand on the focus. With the EA50 I have to use the manual zoom for reframing and then focus all with my left hand. I've sort of got used to doing it that way now but It's impossible to keep focus while reframing in this way.

It's not great in low light unless you use a fast lens - my 24-70 f2.8 (f2.0 with the speedbooster) just about works for dim receptions but not dark evening receptions - for that the camera goes back in the bag and the 5D3 comes out - I'm not happy to do this as focusing with the 5D is pants compared (also it has no 50p), but at least I don't have to blind the guests with a light.

I'm happy for this season but might look around at alternatives for my main camera for the next, maybe the C100 now it has an autofocus upgrade option.

I did a unofficial test I think my Panasonic AG-HMC 150s are arguably to the perfect wedding cameras so as long as the EA50 is close the them in low light im happy. I find that IF im in a dark church I can shoot at 21 db gain and get about the same light level as the 150s with 12 db gain (thats zoomed out f 3.5) BUT if I push the EA50 to 30 db gain I get more light and personally I still think 30 db gain on the EA 50 is cleaner than the 150 @ 12db. for me I just would want a 28-75 @ f2.8 straight through and a 80-200 @ F 2.8 straight through in NEX mounts then it would blown the doors off my 150s. I may buy the 18-105 @ f 4.0 just to see how it works out.

Randy if you want to splash the cash and solve your low light woes then the Metabones Speedbooster coupled with the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 is a dream - with the speedbooster extra stop it goes down to f2.0 - A sharp lens and killer combination for the EA50 but pricey at around £1200 but worth it. That lens also has stabilisation which is really good.

Pete

Ouch Randy

I would never shoot at 30db gain ... despite what anyone says it's grainy!! Even 24db is grainy!! With the HMC's you are stuck with what the camera has but despite just the 1/3" chips the F1.6 lens does help and DOF is no issue at all.

I work up front at Church weddings so I can easily get away with the Sigma 18-35 and F1.8 constant and only around $700 here. That's all I use at receptions and despite the big aperture you still have enough DOF to take decent shots ... I find that being in front of the guests means I can use a shorter lens and apart from the photog, no-one is likely to walk in front of my camera.

I know this sounds silly but quite often you can improve the lighting in a Church just by asking the priest! Open blinds on windows near the altar/bridal area, check to see that all lights are on. If you just stick with the lens as a problem solver going from the stock lens to a simple Tamron 17-50 F2.8 will drop the gain on the camera from 24db down to 15 or 18db and it's a sharp and cheap lens. Serious look at working up front instead of at the back of the Church ...I just dump a fixed cam at the back for wide shots and get as far upfront as I can ..usually on the right as the bride is on the left ..that way you need a shorter zoom which is probably faster too than a big zoom!

Chris

the point I was trying to make was the grain at 30 db is still better than the grain on a AG-HMC150 @ 12 db gain. I never use 30 db gain I was just testing quality VS brightness VS gain level and what not.

Ok Got it!! Camera processing has got a lot better nowdays and older models that had a poor image at even 12db gain like the 150 are normal. I think the new processing tends to apply more smoothing to the image so even though it isn't that much better, it still looks better.

24db is actually quite usable but gives no latitude for adjustment. I had some 24db footage from last week that really looks fine but overall it's a tiny bit dark. If I apply just a touch of gamma correction in Vegas it looks terrible which wouldn't happen at all at lower gains.

Good luck on the shoot Randy and may all your footage be perfect!

Chris

This sounds very reasonable. (Thats problaby also the reason why it has no SDI output - No need for FBas IMHO...)
Honestly, my only concern on the EA50 is simply the lowlight factor. I shoot a lot of concerts and need something like the stock lens (incl. live zooming). Often I have to use gains above 15db.
If the SELP18105 wouldnt just have f4 I would take it at once. I Still didnt find an affordable alternative.

there are none (alternatives). not with a servo zoom . My problem is similar (I shoot sports at night, where I need a fast shutter and 2.8 minimum -and a lanc zoom from the tripod-). The ea50 footage is dark and of course noisy. It was intentional, no doubts about it. What I find good enough is the AF of that cheap 18-200. For soccer works really good, dark but good :) But the zoom jerks , and that's just not useable for a decent sport coverage where micro slow zooms are necessary.

The stock lens is only a hotshot with auto focus in good light..crank the gain up to 21db and it struggles to keep focus and especially at weddings can easily lock onto the items behind the altar rather than the couple! I use it in manual at wedding ceremonies so if I'm doing that I might as well get a faster manual zoom like a 2.8 and get a better image with no noise.

I really cannot see the point of the 18-105?? It's F4 all the way but if you use the stock lens it's F3.5 at 18mm and not a lot more than F4 at 100mm ... I reckon the Sigma 24-70 at a constant F2.8 is better BUT no autofocus of course.

I can see the need in sport but surely you can use manual on a stage ...you would have enough DOF to keep the dancers all in focus surely unless you are really a long way from it!!

Chris

Pete??

I have been told that the speed booster ONLY works on Full Frame lenses ..I though the 24-70 was an APSC lens?? I( know my one for Nikon mount was marked as a Dii lens which means it can only be used on APSC cameras and the Speed Booster likes FF lenses to do the job right??

Chris

This is the one Chris

Tamron SP 24-70mm F/2.8 Di VC USD review: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron-24-70mm-2p8-vc-usd)

The only full frame lens in it's class with Tamron's vibration control stabilisation which is really good - It was expensive and is heavy but is sharper than my other Canon full frame lenses - really nice bokeh as well :)

Pete

Thanks Pete

I see the Nikon mount is for Nikon F so it is a full frame lens ...My Nikons are mostly the Dii or Dx lenses so they work better on the APSC bodies so that would work well on the Metabones too!

Chris

The stock lens is only a hotshot with auto focus in good light..crank the gain up to 21db and it struggles to keep focus and especially at weddings can easily lock onto the items behind the altar rather than the couple!
Chris

Chris, yes but for a bizarre combination of factors that lens is good for a night coverage of sports , shot from the press box and from a distance for example, keeping the zoom at 2/3 of the extent : the AF is slow and therefore does exactly what a dedicated lens would do: moves slowly and keeps the scene under control. Of course if I zoom in for a close up then the AF goes to get a coffee and doesn't come back until I zoom out again.
LOL

but then again shooting sports (soccer in particular) can be a challenge for any cameraman and for many different reasons. If you look at the splendid coverage of the world cup in Brazil you can see how they struggle with a limited dynamic range (half field under the sun and the other half dark), exaggerated by the high res that for THAT doesn't help at all. I see the guys with the flycams on the side using ND filters in and out when they have to move fast from bright to dark. Imagine that... ND in and out on the fly all the time trying to keep a running subject in the frame.. amazing :)

In other words (and this is my "idea" about any camera) we have the gear and we make it work. But when I see intentional idiotic limitations then I make it work but also get a little upset.

Quite right Anthony

It's all to do with money! Sony are in business to make lots of it so of course they will "down grade" the EA-50 features to keep the market where they want it. Giving the EA-50 a Super 35 sensor alone would threaten sales of the FS100 and even 700 range and Sony wouldn't allow that to happen.

I think their attitude is simply a marketing one ...if you want a better EA-50 then buy a FS100 ..want better than that then you need a FS700. They are just catering for different markets and it goes on with most manufacturers they just don't let models get too close otherwise sales will suffer. The one big advantage we have with these cameras is that we can change lenses ..it's up to us what lens we want to use.

Just for interest, the big sports cameras used at soccer games ..AFAIK those are all manual focus (they use a twist grip on the handles ..one for zoom and one for focus) I tried one out at our local broadcaster on a tour once and they are awesome to use ..sorta like driving a motor cycle so if one did a large number of sport fixtures wouldn't investment in a really classy tripod complete with dual twist grips be the way to go?? The broadcast rig I "played" with I think cost $100,000 and that's without the camera and lens!!! but I'm sure one could get/make up a handlebar frame and have servo controls that would work on a standard camera with LANC??

Chris

Chris

Chris
you mean the one with the seat? with a 25lbs lens (alone)? That used to be Canon territory but in Brazil Sony is a big sponsor, so they use Sony instead. Awesome coverage, in another planet compared to the flycams on the sideline. Due to the lens of course. The control from the handles are for everything, including the "seat" , I mean the body up and down LOL via RS232 (serial) Even the lanc protocol for consumer uses simple serial commands. then it's all marketing. Paasonic gives iris while sony (consumer lanc) doesn't, but gives zxoom speed and panasonic doesn't. LOL all marketing, . I shoot from the above, in a nice room with food and everything. One thing I want to say about that job from the sidelines: it's dangerous first of all (they have protections military style but still... the ball is kinda heavy when it lands on your head. Second the operators are in the "50" segment of age, so no drinks because they have to stay for 2 hrs steady, live to the world to see and can't use the bathroom (big thing when you are over 50). The only way is not to drink before the assignment. there is no other way. I say this because nobody cares about the people producing that beautiful work: they watch TV and give it for granted. But there are serious professionals behind the cameras!

Hi Anthony

Funnily enough I did a soccer shoot yesterday.. the whole game with just a mad dash to the toilet at half time and of course I used the stock lens as the power zoom is great as I had to concentrate on just one player for evaluation purposes so I missed a lot of the action sadly. It's tough being glued to the camera for one 45 minute stretch and you dare not relax as you might miss a shot!!

The zoom and AF works very well but then again this was during the day and nice and bright so it should work well. I have actually sold one stock lens and now just have one stock for sports stuff and for use on my stedicam and all the rest I share with my two Nikons which makes sense. Even if I run out of zoom for framing at weddings I still have digital zoom ..it's a tiny bit softer at 2X zoom but you can sharpen in post and no-one will even know ...I only use it very rarely ...when they sign the register I like to do a slow zoom down to the page and often use a tiny bit of digital zoom as there is no need to focus if I did it on manual.

For me a manual lens in dark venues works better but for sport shoots, yes, I would still stick to the stock lens!!

Chris

Chris,
great. congrats for the soccer coverage. Yes it takes a lot of continued concentration for each of the 45 minute periods. I shoot 4 games a week during soccer season, producing the full game and highlights overnight. It's a lot of work , not counting the stress of the game itself. If you are going to do more soccer then let me know, I'll share few tricks that literally can save the day :)

Thanks Antony

At this stage I'm only doing 4 games in total and I have done two already. What it is, is a video of just one player who is attempting to gain a scholarship to the States so I have to film her performance alone and not the match itself. It's all medium shots so the panel can observe what she does and they also want to see who she passes the ball to. It's a little boring as she is a defender so at the back and often doesn't do a lot if the opposition perform poorly. You never know?? The club might ask me to do games for their own coaching staff so any tips would be good.

Chris

i filmed this week at school. it was the ending of the 6th grade. the stage was very dark
I used the stocklens and the tripod was on a dolly. So I could move from left to right and was very close (in front of) the stage.

On the side I used my little panasonic HC-X920 limited @ 6db.

It's mentioned before but I think that even the slow stocklens is equal to a fast 3cmos 1/3inch camcorder in low light. (like a Z5/NX5/...)

the HC-X920 is like the ag-ac90 in low light I think (same chips)
And you can change to a faster lens for low light. A fast prime must be always better in low light then any 3cmos 1/3inch camcorder. not?

You have shouldermount. So for the price a good camcorder I think.
For close ups at stage I miss a 20x zoom from a NX5/NX3.

A F2.8 200mm zoom is very expensive and vey builky!
Maybe better to use a prime 150mm and use 2x digital zoom for that?

Hi Tom

If you look for a Tamron lens they have a nice range at F2.8 without getting price crazy!! Do you really need as much as 200mm for what you are doing? Maybe use the EA-50 for the wide shot and then creep up a bit closer with the 920 for some closeups. For weddings I have a 17-50 constant F2.8 and then a 28-75 also constant F2.8 and it makes a massive difference in low light! Yes you can use zoom on the camera without any practical light loss but try to stay at 1.5zoom it's a lot less softer than 2X zoom ...remember to sharpen those clips in post a bit to they match the non zoomed shots. You can normally find a Tamron 28-75 for under $250

Chris

Hi Tom

Just remember a pro camera with 1/3rd chips has a HUGE DOF so they can easily pop on a fixed zoom that is F1.6 when wide open and still have plenty of the subject in focus. If you check most fixed lens 3 chip cameras you will find the widest aperture quite impressive to make up for the small sensors. My HMC82's also had an F1.6 lens and 12X zoom. At concerts and indoor events where you shoot from the back and high up, often a camcorder will outperform the EA-50 quite drastically in low light so they might just be a better tool for the job. I know Noa uses little Sony CX730's when he needs low light coverage and swears by them. At a concert all you really need is the whole stage in focus so DOF becomes a non essential. If you double the focal length with digital zoom you will get a much softer image ..maybe get a nice fast prime that will be right for the stage to be in frame but venues will change from one to the other and you could be 20 metres away in one venue then 50 metres in the next so you really do need a fast zoom. A better plan would be to get a fast zoom and then put a Metabones speed booster on it so you gain a stop ??

Chris

I use my Canon XA10 for stage totals. But the image doesnt really fit to the EA50.
So i was considering maybe using a NEX Photocam with wide lens for that.
Not so sure about it.

I find that the 11x zoom from the nex-ea50 is not enough to shoot stage events. You need 20xzoom or more.
the hxr-nx3 looks great with 20x zoom but is not a handycam. The cam will fit great with the new-ea50.