I know, these reports are probably getting old. :-) But I'm still not completely convinced by any one system for aerial videography.

Most recently, I'd been almost convinced by the Phantom 2 Vision Plus. Initial reviews were good, and I've been swayed by the all-in-one convenience. But (as with ALL systems) I've started reading about issues. And as always, I'm never quite sure whether the issues are...
a) total BS (posted by someone with an axe to grind)
b) represent just 1% or less of all similar platforms
c) due to user error/inattention

In the case of the Phantom 2 Vision Plus, I've read that...
• the DJI camera, while decent, isn't as good as the latest GoPro (and GoPro is rumored to be getting closer to releasing the Hero 4)
• people are having issues with video streaming to their smartphones

So while researching these issues more, I'm back to thinking maybe assembling a custom kit is better.

In-flight video monitoring is critical for me---if I can't reliably see what I'm shooting, the whole exercise is pointless. I've got to have a Tx/Rx solution that is bombproof---and won't cut in/out, be subject to interference, etc.

I'm also wondering more what the potential for RF inerference (or other problems) could be when flying around a university campus soaked in wifi networks and cellphone use?

I'm hearing more people talk about problems due to flying in urban areas...well that's what I'm getting one for! I don't really have much need or use for getting aerial footage of fields and forests (nothing against fields and forests---I love 'em!).

So...frustrating as it is...I continue to wait...and continue to keep reading forums, watching demo vids, etc.

NOTE: I've still never gotten a good response to the "Phantom vs. F550" question. No question the Phantoms are more popular...but I still keep thinking a hexcopter may have advantages. (But maybe not?) Someone at Aerial Media Pros told me something that was new to me: that you cannot attach a Zenmuse 3D gimbal to an F550. This sounded odd, because I'm pretty sure I've seen many mods to the F550's undercarriage that let you attach pretty much anything under the sun...so another thing to look into.

Scott

What I see is two camps

Guys who were already into RC , trying to fim with Helis and planes tend to run away from the Phantom.
Its probably pride mostly. We think we can build something better for less

Guys who come from a film/photography background tend to lean towards a phantom. I believe this is being familiar with it because of advertising on places like B and H photo and that most photo/video trade articles about aerial filming almost always shows a phantom

If I were you I would get me a multirotor without a camera first to start flying ( maybe you have already. best first step)
Then I would build a multi designed around my payload.

I wish I could find a second person. Someone serious about doing this for MONEY. flying and running the gimbal is tough

I can tell you this from 7 years work- Go hexa or octo.
Your background will always leave you wanting more untill you are carrying a DSLR or Video camera.

Dont get me wrong, I love my GoPro and I do own a Flamewheel 550......and I have a zenmuse Hero 2D gimbal and I love it. But if I want to show a pro I refer them to the work I have shot with my GH3 in the air.


My dream set up right now ?
I would love to have a DJI S-1000 octocopter, DJI A2 controller and DJI zenmuse Z-15 gimbal for the GH3.

I just want it. What I have now flies the GH3 fine

Tarot 960 Naza V2 controller RCtimer legacy gimbal/alexmos controller


You could go ahead and buy the phantom , just look at it as a stepping stone to your next project, a larger Hexa.

You don't just wake up and decide to be a medical doctor one day. It takes time, study and lots of practice. The Phantom are a great way to start. My first quad was a Phantom I. The new Phantom II is even batter and will fly longer. Yes they do fly away sometimes but not because of any defect in design. Flyaways are caused by lack of experience with flying and lack of understanding of how the aircraft responds to certain situations.

A F550 is not for you until you learn to fly and fly well. Get a Phantom II and go far away from people and buildings. Buy 2 or 3 extra batteries. Charge all the batteries and fly every day till you can fly it both pointed away from you and pointed toward you. Lear to fly figure 8's quickly. Fly it till it is second nature like riding a bike.

After you put 20+ hours of flight time in, you are ready to start thinking about adding camera and gimbal. Spend another 5 hours with that setup in the air and then you can start thinking about using a video transmitter and monitor to control the camera position.

Learn how to fly well in all modes, GPS, manual, ATTI. Learn to how the return to home functions work. Learn the IOC system.

Build up time with flying and if you don't loose it to crashes or fly-away by the time you reach 100 hours you will be ready to build your own.

I just built an F550 after owning the Phantom for about a year. The flight characteristics are almost exactly the same, the F550 is just a lot more stable. I personally think if you can fly a Phantom, you can fly the F550 just as easily. But as Chris said, if you've never flown a Phantom it may be a bad idea to go for the F550 initially.

For me, there are a few advantages to the F550:
- Increased payload means you can carry a bigger battery, more FPV gear, bigger gimbal and camera, etc
- More stable in the wind
- If you use the Wookong controller, you get a bit of redundancy (if one of the motors dies you can still land)
- More modular design; a heavy crash is likely just going to break a few arms so repair is easy and cheap
- This may not matter for some, but it looks a lot more professional than the Phantom. I've had strange looks turning up to a pro shoot with a Phantom before. The Phantom has just had too much media coverage.

Of course there are downsides too. It takes a bit of effort to build, and a lot of research. Setting up the flight controller and transmitter took me a couple of days. But the information is readily available online.

As for attaching a gimbal to the F550, you need a set of landing legs like this:
200mm clearance landing legs | QUADframe.us (http://www.quadframe.us/collections/landing-gear/products/200mm-clearance-landing-legs.html)

If you are not flying something you are running behind. Go out and get a cheap quad with no camera. I just picked up a hubsan 4x for 50 dollars. I realized I could practice getting the shots that I
Need practice on without putting my rigs into harms way
They all fly the same pretty much and these little rigs will improve your flying skills while you decide

Good thoughts. I should have mentioned in my post (I may have mentioned it elsewhere): I'm an experienced RC slope soaring glider pilot (with hundreds of hours flying high-speed gliders very close to the ground and engaged in aerial combat with other gliders).

While I'm sure flying a multicopter is different, I'm pretty sure that when flown carefully, the speeds are nothing compared to slope soaring, where you can get flying so fast (40-60mph) that the smallest error can end in a spectacular crash. I'm also accustomed to flying in reverse orientation (with the aircraft coming right at you). So I'm reasonably sure I'll be able to fly a multicopter.

As an aside, I did most of my RC flying in the days before exponential stick control on transmitters. In other words, I became very accustomed to flying with microscopically small stick movements---if you watched me fly one of my gliders, you'd swear I never move the stick at all! :-)

The other difference in my/our case is that I'm not looking to do aerial videography as a professional business. I'm just looking to be able to get some nice aerial shots and pedestal moves (up/down) around our campus to fold into other video footage we have.

It's fair to ask "Why not hire someone to come in and do it?" We could…but we'd have a lot less flexibility than we will if we have (say) a Phantom we can just pull out whenever the weather is perfect or when there is something in particular we need to shoot.

In many respects what is happening with multicopters now is analogous to what happened with the advent of desktop video production---when people first started using Video Toasters on Amiga computers, all the "broadcast heavies" scoffed and said "That's low-quality amateur stuff." Flash forward to today and serious films are being cut in people's bedrooms on Macs. It's the same with multicopters: yes, you'll get better results with a $15K platform carrying a big camera and flown by a full-time RC pilot…but not everyone needs that.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm leaning back toward the Vision Plus. While I completely agree that it's important to put in hours flying these things, it's also very obvious from videos like this that these things are NOT difficult to fly, especially if you have some RC experience:

RC Groups - View Single Post - DJI Phantom Quadcopter (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26035092&postcount=17048)

Scott

Well one thing is for sure, You won't know till you buy something and get to flying.

My advice is buy one of anything and see if its good enough. If its not sell it and buy another one.

At the low end where you are looking with the phantom they are dirt cheap. Pull the trigger and get to flying.

I've had a blast playing with mine.

I'm done. Just paid for a Phantom 2 Pro Pack from Aerial Media Pros.

I went with this over the Phantom 2 Vision Plus because...

a) I'm familiar with the GoPro Hero 3, think it's probably a touch better than the DJI camera, there are many aftermarket filter kits available for it, and (if the form factor doesn't change) I can upgrade to a Hero 4 when it's released.

b) I wanted the larger 7" field monitor (with hood) as I'm certain it'll make in-flight monitoring easier than doing it on an iPhone, as well as the greater range of the dedicated monitoring system.

c) I wanted the greater range of the Futaba 14SG transmitter.

d) I like the increased flight information available via the IOSD over the bare bones info with the Vision Plus.

e) I wanted an easier path to monitoring with wireless video goggles in the future---it's a bit of a hassle to use these with the Vision Plus.

Cost of this setup, plus
- 2 extra batteries (total of 4)
- prop guards
- extra battery charger
was $3,410, plus the cost of the GoPro Hero 3.

It'll be a couple weeks before I get the system. Aerial Media Pros were very helpful on the phone and answered several questions. They claim to assemble, configure, tweak, and flight test the whole system before shipping---so it should be good to go when I receive it.

I'll post initial impressions when it comes and I get into the air!
Scott

Good to hear, Scott!

You won't be disappointed with the Phantom. Like you, I had many years of experience flying RC planes before I got into multi-rotors. The Phantom was the first quadcopter I flew, and I was comfortable with it within minutes. It is a very easy machine to fly if you already have RC experience.

My only other recommendation is to thoroughly read the manual. The LED sequences are crucial to know, as is the compass calibration process. And making sure the GPS has a solid lock before takeoff is the best way to avoid anything going wrong when it's airborne.

Have fun!

UPDATE: We got our Phantom 2 Pro Package from Aerial Media Pros yesterday---much faster than I expected! (They said two weeks, but it was one.)

Everything came beautifully slotted into the nice Pelican-style travel case---no infuriating de-shrink-wrapping required. :-)

I'll be charging up all the batteries today for a first flight. Aerial Media Pros ships the Phantom (or maybe DJI does?) with only GPS flying mode enabled. You have to use the Phantom software to enable Attitude and Manual modes, which I plan to do today. I'll only use GPS and Attitude modes at first, of course---but I plan to master manual mode flying as I've heard repeatedly this provides the smoothest aerial footage. (But if GPS/Atti mode video looks fine then I may have no need to use Manual.)

My only minor gripe with Aerial Media Pros is that they seem to encourage a very limited/ultra-basic understanding of all the systems. The quad shipped with a variety of miscellaneous parts---some screws, extra rubber vibration dampeners with cryptic degree markings on them (what are those???), and nothing anywhere to tell you what any of that stuff is.

They also include the Phantom Quick Start Guide...but there is no "Full Manual" (maybe a PDf online?). And the "manuals" for the wireless video monitor and IOSD are tiny slips of paper (half in Chinese) with instructions that are cryptic at best.

I'm not too worried about any of this, because I know the whole system is probably mostly plug-and-fly. But I'm the kind of operator who actually reads the manual---so it would be nice to HAVE good manuals for everything. :-)

Stay tuned. A report on the first flight coming soon!
Scott

Happy flying Scott, and there are full manuals for phantom and gimbal online, don't think there's one for the iosd mini.

John.

I'll be charging up all the batteries today for a first flight. Aerial Media Pros ships the Phantom (or maybe DJI does?) with only GPS flying mode enabled. You have to use the Phantom software to enable Attitude and Manual modes, which I plan to do today. I'll only use GPS and Attitude modes at first, of course---but I plan to master manual mode flying as I've heard repeatedly this provides the smoothest aerial footage. (But if GPS/Atti mode video looks fine then I may have no need to use Manual.)


I flew with my Phantom for about a year and I never saw a need to try manual mode. I'm not sure what you read, but attitude mode is extremely smooth. It's only in GPS mode that the quad is constantly making little micro adjustments that can show up in your video footage.

In attitude mode, you have complete control over the quad, you just can't bank it past a certain angle. So I can't see what added benefit manual mode would have. I'd personally never use it, and I've been flying RC aircraft for about 10 years. The chance of crashing is just too high. I can do it with my little E-Flite Nano QX quadcopter, but it's extremely difficult. Give it a little too much stick in any direction, and upside down it goes.

Just my 2 cents :)

Oh and as for manuals, the in-depth versions are all on the DJI website.

Thanks for the suggestions---I did find and download the full manuals online.

And Jody---that's great to hear. I'm certainly not hell-bent on using Manual mode, and if you've gotten smooth results in ATTI mode then that's fine with me! :-) (But I guess I'll still have to use the software to unlock ATTI mode---which makes Manual just an accidental bump of a switch away---yikes!)

I'm hoping to get out and fly late this afternoon. I'm tempted to go the full monty and shoot video and use the wireless monitor...but common sense tells me I should make my first flight with the GoPro (and monitor) off---so I'm only focusing on flying...

Scott

Go ahead and film your first flight. You wont have an issue with flying and playing with the gopro.

When you build a big multi and want to put a gimbal/camera on it then the common steps would be to build the multi, get it flying good and then add the camera/gimbal.
But with the Phantom you have the gimbal is already there and it will need the camera for the correct balance. Might as well turn it on.

But, you do want to fly in manual. The reeason being if you ever think you may be in the middle of a "DJI Flyaway" the only way to recover is switch to manual. So, learn manual as soon as possible. Just in case.

I film with GPS. what a lot of people dont realize is you can set your gains in atti/gps mode so that the flight is just as smooth in GPS as it is in atti mode. In fact, if you set you gains correctly you should go between the three modes without much difference in how the multi handles. Except of coures GPS is the only mode that will allow you to enjoy a sandwich and fly.

Go ahead and film your first flight. You wont have an issue with flying and playing with the gopro.
That makes sense.

But, you do want to fly in manual. The reeason being if you ever think you may be in the middle of a "DJI Flyaway" the only way to recover is switch to manual. So, learn manual as soon as possible. Just in case. This, and I admit to also feeling a bit like an "RC purist" in that I've been flying RC gliders for years in "manual" mode (since that's all there is!), so I keep thinking I should be able to fly one of these the same way. :-)

I film with GPS. what a lot of people dont realize is you can set your gains in atti/gps mode so that the flight is just as smooth in GPS as it is in atti mode. In fact, if you set you gains correctly you should go between the three modes without much difference in how the multi handles. Except of coures GPS is the only mode that will allow you to enjoy a sandwich and fly.

Ha! Good. Any recommendations for good sources of info (online) for setting the gains the way you describe? (I'll do some googling around too...)

Scott

That makes sense.

This, and I admit to also feeling a bit like an "RC purist" in that I've been flying RC gliders for years in "manual" mode (since that's all there is!), so I keep thinking I should be able to fly one of these the same way. :-)



I know what you mean. I've been flying RC planes for years. But flying planes is a lot easier than flying a multi-rotor "manually".

If you go upside down in a plane, you're still generating lift and you can cruise along upside down. If you bank a multi-rotor too far (it doesn't take much) you're on the ground very quickly.

I tried to practise flying manually with a cheap little quadcopter, and it didn't end well for the quadcopter. I found it extremely difficult to keep level, and it was very easy to over-correct and lose control.

So as there's no real benefit to flying manually as opposed to attitude mode, I'm going to stick to what keeps my F550 safely in the sky.

But again, just my 2c :)

Ill go through what I have done with both my multis in the last two weeks.

I came from a helicopter background and have set gains on everything from Helicommand Rigid to DJI Ace One for helis before I came to multis. With that said, untill last week I really didnt have a system down that made me feel confident in my manual settings.

So- go online or use suggestions fronm DJI where you should set gains to start. make sure you have enough satts to lock in and take off in GPS. Move the multi away and up so you have room to recover.
Hopefully your gains are close enough that your multi will stay in one place with your fingers off all controls. ( It wll)

Now, flip your swith to manual mode. The multi may drop or climb a bit , dont worry too much abotu that yet. Give SMALL stick inputs to go left and right. If you have to keep giving counter stick movements to keep it inthe air and its getting worse and worse and your multi is looking like a drunk sailor, your basic gains are set too low. Now, if they are really low you can loose control quickly. But, your GPS switch is your failsafe. If your uncomfortable in manual flip back to GPS . then go add gain. You can add 20 to each setting without doing too much change. As you go up in basic gain your multi should be more controllable each time you add gain. Do this back and forth untill you can fly your multi in manual mode without it being sluggish or uncontrollable. If you add too much gain when you give stick commands in pitch and roll it will SNAP in place when it exicutes the stick command. If you put in too much gain it can start shaking and wont stop without going back to GPS.
Once you can go from GPS to Manual without a drop in altitude or gain inaltitude and it flies like your glider, your basic gainsare set correctly. I would make sure you can fly and land comfortably in manual

Once you have your basic gains tuned you can now set your atti gains

Thats more of the users choice. Low gains will alow you to film in GPS .But if they are to low you will "Toilet bowl" when you release the sticks. What I mean by that is instead of your multi stopping in the exact spot it will go in about a 3 foot circle at first and then settle in.

If your gains are really high in GPS it will snap each time you release th sticks. What I mean by that is if your are in slow forward flight in GPS and you release the stick the multi will stop so aburptly you will see a slight kick in reverse direction.

I hope that makes sense

Thanks John---all great info/advice! Most of it made sense (I think). I found this forum page at Helifreaks.com that helped me too:
Main Gain, Attitude Gain question - HeliFreak (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=584460)

One user in that thread had what seemed like a good idea (I'm just not sure how to do it): he set a couple of his Tx knobs to control gains while in flight---that sounds like a great way to experiment much more quickly (in baby steps of course) without having to land and plug into a laptop every time.

I'm not sure I'm understanding the difference between what you refer to as "basic" gain and "atti" gain. In the thread linked above, they talked about "main" gain, which was defined as how the aircraft responds generally to external forces (like wind)...and they defined "attitude" gains as specifically how the aircraft responds to stick inputs (pitch and roll)...and finally "yaw" gains for yaw.

That make sense to you? :-)
Scott

Hey Scott, the info Im putting out is based on the Naza assistant which is what I think you also use with the phantom.
Some of the things I recommend or you read You may not be able to do. Im saying that because with my multis im using a seperate reciever so , with that said Imtyping from memory so I hope I get the tabs correct . I tried to find a screen grab but dont have one

1- Basic gain and atti gain

these are two sections in the software under the Gain tab

Mine reads

Basic Gain
pitch roll yaw throtle

Atti Gain
pitch roll


basic would be the same as 'Main" gain and Attitude gain is atti gain. Atti gain is for both GPS and ATTI settings

In other words when you set ATTI gain, its an additional gain added when you decide to go to attitude mode or GPS mode.

To set up switches to adjust gains mid flight here what I do, again not sure how its done on the phantom because I dont know what the radio or reciever looks like or if you have switches you can assign to channels on your reciever.

for me I have a 9 channel raido and a 9 channel reciever

so. I use the following channels

throttle- throttle channel
roll-aileron
pitch- elevator
yaw-rudder
three position switch for man/atti/gps-aux2
IOC-flap switch
RTH-throttle hold

so that leaves two open channels.

I use a JR 9303 radio and I have two slider switches. One on each side of the radio.
I can assign one switch to X1 in Naza and X2 to the other switch. Then in the naza assistant software you can choose x1 and x2 for remote gain. ONe for pitch and one for roll.

When you do this you want to use the trim step so that you limit the range of your gain setting. And what I mean is you should have a"Ballpark" range of where you should want to go. for conversation lets say you want somewhere between 100 and 150 on a gain setting. Use your trim to set the lowest setting on your switch you will be using to 50 on the gain and your highest setting to 150.

Hope that make sense. If not PM me

Thanks John---that makes sense (and I still obviously have some work to do!). I haven't downloaded the Phantom Assistant software yet but will today.

I actually have a Futaba 14SG transmitter/receiver. The manual is huge and it has a zillion sliders, buttons, knobs, and switches, LOL. This came with the "Phantom Pro Package" from Aerial Media Pros, and they set it up before shipping with all the standard Phantom controls mapped (including IOC modes, etc.) There are several knobs/switches that are labeled with cryptic abbreviations that are a complete mystery to me.

So I'm pretty sure it will do whatever I want it to---just have to figure out how! :-)
Scott

found a video that explains it

this will also show you how to "map" a channel of your reciever to a know or swith in your radio

DJI Naza Basic and Attitude Gain Settings for Pitch & Roll Using Turnigy 9X Control Knobs - YouTube