Hi Guys

We had a wedding yesterday and when the speeches were wrapped up I packed away all the lighting and continued on just the B-Cam. The MC an hour later announced they they were going to do a quick vote of thanks from the lectern in a few minutes and, of course ALL my gear including lighting and tripods were already packed away so I had to do it handheld which I figured was no issue for a few minutes.

Bear in mind my B-Cam EA-50 had the basic camera PLUS the big Sigma 18-35 F1.8 plus a video light plus a second Sony battery for the light on it so the lens alone is over 800 grams then there is the heavy battery and the LED light so one can add a good 1.5 - 2.0kg to the outfit.

The so-called short speech ran for 8 minutes and 48 seconds so all I can say is thank goodness I was using the support rod and belt otherwise I doubt whether I could have held the very front heavy front end up that long. It really did take ALL the front end weight off the camera, and I could actually easily take my right hand right off to adjust focus if required .... certainly saved my bacon and amazingly stable footage too!!

Chris

Nice one Chris - Quite a few years ago I got caught out when the speeches started early - before they had even cleared the desserts! I was just about to start placing my equipment so had no choice but to grab my old Z1 and film the lot hand held with onboard mic!!!

Fortunately the B&G loved their video but needless to say it's not one I ever show (well not the speeches bit anyway) to prospective clients!

20 minutes hand held - killed my back!

Pete

I got caught out again on Saturday .. the bridal party at a Macedonian wedding were supposed to advance to around the middle of the Church but just kept coming right up to the front so my main cam lens hood was buried between a groomsman's legs so I just had to keep filming on the 2nd camera until their ring ceremony was done ..that was 15 minutes !!! Luckily for me they moved back to the correct position afterwards.

I have actually tossed out the plastic plate with the crappy ball joint out now and just use a nicer mini ball head fastened onto the "L" bracket below the belt and it has really smooth movement too!!

Chris

I said it before...using my ENG rig from DVTec on my full sized cameras including my trusty old GY-5000/5100 with Canon 19X and an Anton Bauer Hytron 120 NiMH battery (5.5 pounds just for the battery) and a wireless receiver hanging off the back end for a total of about 22 to 23 pounds of gear, that ENG rig saved my back everytime I picked up the rig. I has times doing weddings where the introductions, cake cutting and toasts (speeches) ran upwards of 40 minutes. Was the footage as good as if it was shot on a tripod? No. Was it better than just having the camera on my shoulder? Yep. Did I zoom in to the long end of the lens? Nope. Did it save my bacon (my back) from being totally destroyed. You bet.
The ENG rig on my FS and the Multirig on my small form factor cameras were the best investments I made, bar none.

I have actually tossed out the plastic plate with the crappy ball joint out now and just use a nicer mini ball head fastened onto the "L" bracket below the belt and it has really smooth movement too!!

Chris

Don't suppose you have a pic of that Chris? :)

Hi Pete

No problem at all. My bracket was one I salvaged from a light stand ... I just cut it to size but any "L" bracket will work. The "cup" that the rod goes into is part of an old sprinkler but it does work fine. If you look in your hardware store they have irrigation fittings that are used to block off the end of a pipe and those would actually be better!! It's just bolted onto one end of the ball head. Being horizontal as the bracket makes it horizontal now it works really well and also the bracket drops the rod by a few more inches as it's just bolted to the bottom of the waist belt.

Chris

Well either today or tomorrow I'm going to try and shorten mine as per your tips - wish me luck!

Hi Pete

No luck needed just common sense!

Don't cut the tubes or springs!! I had two rods so I could experiment and you need the decent length to get a nice soft support.

Do it in two stages First cut off the big plastic fitting at the top and try the whole thing using the pouch only.

That might be OK for you without the ball head at the bottom ...Don's one just had a pouch! If you are worried about destroying the plastic fitting at the top you can also just knock out the pin and remove it and then find even something like a piece of plastic or aluminium rod that will fit snugly in the top tube and tap a 1/4" thread through it ... That way you can always return to the plastic fitting. If you feel a ball head at the bottom is a good idea then do the bottom section.

If you need any help just yell or email me.

Chris

Chris,

Don't you have to switch between handheld with the rod and filming on tripod?
It looks difficult to switch from rod to tripod.

Hi Tom

Nope! I have two cameras so normally one is on tripod and the other is on my shoulder. Basically if you use just one camera the rod fitting is already on the rail and you have the belt around your waist anyway so it would be simply, remove the cam from the tripod, hoist it onto your shoulder and put the rod in place. It needs no screws/fasteners 's instant and one handed too.

Chris

thanks Chris but what about the rod?
You place the camcorder from the rod on the tripod.
But the rod is so long, can you easily shorten it?

So the rod is not disturbing you after that. I hope you understand my question.

I found this video. Is simulair product to yours I think.

DSLR Rig Support Rod Teleskopstange mit Klett-Bauchgurt - by www.enjoyyourcamera.com - YouTube

I found also another way (around the neck) but at this moment I don't find the link. will post it later.

The most simple things tend to be the most useful, don't they? sometimes i'll use my monopod like that rod, i have a similar pouch that just straps over a heavy belt for the same effect. then again, most times if it's stationary just plopping down the monopod is quick and back-free

Hi Tom

Yeah, that's a DV Multirig or a copy of one and is much the same except I added a ball head at the belt instead of just a pocket.

To be honest I don't use the rig on my A-Camera at all ...that stays on tripod and my B-Camera stays on my shoulder (with the rod) When I stop filming I simply put the camera down and have the rod alongside it but keep the belt on. When I need to use the camera again I just pick up the camera and hoist it onto my shoulder and then snap the rod into place. You could, of course, just push the rod diagonally between the belt and your body (like an old fashioned sword and scabbard!)

Now, my old rod (from the same people had a string loop at the top so you could compress the sections together and lock them by hooking the string over an adjustment knob but it seems to be omitted on the newer rod. All you would need to do is have a string loop at the top and when you are done, squeeze the sections together and loop the string over to secure it. It makes it a lot more compact so I might take a look at changing mine so it can be compressed when not in use.

Chris

hey chris,

I only found 1 other brand F&V that sells a simulair rod belt

you have also something like this, it starts at 1min50sec

Nouveautés Novoflex - YouTube

Hi Tom

As far as I can see, that's a solid rod (but adjustable) which is better than nothing. I don't like supports that rest that high up on your chest as your breathing will also affect it as your chest goes up and down. You also get better support and better weight distribution from your waist as everything is transferred to your hips and legs which is a quite stable platform.

Even a very simple rig helps hugely in taking the front end weight off the camera as Darren has commented on with a monopod. In fact my first support back in my Panasonic days was really really simple and was just a "socket" under the camera, a waist belt and I used a leg from a old broken table tripod ... it wasn't spring loaded of course but it was adjustable and worked almost as well and more importantly saved my back ... I made the waist belt from an old lens waist belt/bag ...Next time you use your camera, try something as simple as a piece of PVC pipe from under your matte box down to your pants belt and jam it in there ... you will be amazed how simple it is and how well it works !!!

Thanks for posting both videos

Chris

chris,

I saw that the camtree rod belt has a 15mm rod adapter; for me with my mattebox that would be very easy to use

so just unscrew the rod from the 15 rod adapter and place camcorder on tripod
then grab the rod and put it on the floor something like that?

or can the rod stay on the belt like a sword?

Hi Tom

There is no unscrewing at all. The flexi joint at the end of the support rod has a 1/4" brass pin and the fitting on your matte box is essentially a chunk of aluminium with a 1/4" hole under the centre. The rod simply drops in and out ..when you want to stop, you simply lift the rod out and to carry on snap the pin into the hole ...it's instant and easy. Yep if I use the camera I'll often slip the rod thru my belt like a sword otherwise it just sits with the camera on the table.

Chris

CHris,

time to buy a waist belt rod. You did some adjustments with the camtree. The ball joint was not good?
There are no much other choices from other brands. only this one I havefound from F&V:

F&V DSLR Rig Support Rod / Belt fit Shoulder Mount Steady Video Camcorder Camera DV.-in Photo Studio Accessories from Electronics on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/F-V-DSLR-Rig-Support-Rod-Belt-fit-Shoulder-Mount-Steady-Video-Camcorder-Camera-DV/1874252205.html)

Hi Tom

I'm just a bit fussy about comfort so I did a stack of mods to mine that just suited me. I would say both are much the same !

This is what I found wrong on the Cine City one but at the cheap price it was worth getting anyway.

(1) I didn't like the Velcro belt ..it is too wide and you can't make it tight enough. I made my own belt from an old "fanny bag" I just prefer the buckle type of belt that you can pull the strap to tighten it.

(2) The fitting on the belt is crappy and in the wrong place!! OK, I tossed out the aluminium ball and round disk that slides into the belt ... for the rod length it sits way too high! Mine has a simple "shelf bracket" bolted thru the belt so the rod connects UNDER the belt so it's length is correct. I have a mini ball head joint attached to the shelf bracket so the joint is 100% flexible

The fittings and workings at the top of the rod all work fine BUT I also shortened the fitting at the end by cutting the plastic .... To use the rod and belt as it is manufactured, you need to be at least 7' tall!!!

As I have it now it's perfect !! Let me know if you need any specific modification details?

Chris

Chris,

I don't know.
This is the F&V rod belt:

DSLR Rig Support Rod Teleskopstange mit Klett-Bauchgurt - by www.enjoyyourcamera.com - YouTube

What about a steadycam or a spring arm? maybe crazy with a shouldercam?

thx for always answering my questions

Nothing crazy about using a spring rod with a shoulder cam. I used the DV ENG Rig on my Sony DSR models and my JVC DV5000/51000 cameras. I would use it on the HM700 but JVC changed the foot plate and it won't fit.
Here in the USA many if not most of the cameramen that shoot the PGA tour (the camera guys that walk not the hard cameras) use some sort of spring rod to help keep the camera from moving around especially when they're using the longer end of the lens.
I used the DV MultiRig for many years when I used small form factor cameras (IE Sony PD series) and with some practice I could walk in any direction and get some very smooth footage and if I needed to lock down for an extended period I could do that too. It was almost as good as a tripod. Notice I said almost. BTW, I could do the same with the ENG Rig on the full size cams. I really missed using it on the HM700.
Also that belt looks like the same belt that Danny N. made for his DV MultiRig units. I had that and a pouch for a standard belt but preferred the bigger belt.

Don,

do you mean this rod?

EngRig full size shoulder system for camcorders - ***** DVTEC (http://www.dvtec.tv/engrig1.html)

The one that Chris has is much cheaper and the one from my link is the cheapest.

yes that's the one but when I bought it many years ago, it came with the mounting plate for the camera and was much less expensive. I will say this about the DV Tec gear though. The price is high but the quality is superb.

The point I was making is that even with a full size camera when off the tripod, some sort of support is ALWAYS a good thing. Even my HM700 when "dressed up" weights about 16 pounds and isn't balanced as well as I'd like so the spring rod regardless of where it comes from is a big big help.

Hi Tom

I would say that's much the same rod as the CineCity one ...I would suspect that one manufacturer in China makes them so as long as the principle is the same it doesn't matter where it comes from. Mine was $65.00

I would just buy the whole thing then change what you don't like. You might love the Velcro style wider belt that comes with it ...I prefer a thinner belt with a clip.

Unless you are very tall I would suspect you might need to move the pouch position lower and trim a bit off the top of the rod fitting as it's way too long for me anyway. Still well worth getting and will give you quite amazing stability and no aching back after lots of handheld shooting

Chris

i took a closer look to the camtree rod and dvtec engrig and they look both the same. (like you said Chris) But the engrig is much more expensive! (suppose the camtree is a knock-off) Still don't understand why the rods are too long Chris with you?

the pictures I see from the camtree I see a normal tall man and the rods don't look to long.

Hi Tom

It's just a promo photo you are looking at. Take a careful look at the photo and you will see that both thumbscrew adjusters are next to each other so both tubes are fully compressed already ..they just did that for the photo so it looks correct but in fact it IS too long in practice.

Simple to fix though...You can chop a decent amount off the top flexi-fitting without causing any problems and I just dropped the pouch/joint so it's lower than shown.

Still worth buying for $65.00!! It's fairly easy to modify

Chris

hey Chris,

look what I got! Yes, the camtree rod. looks very good to me but like you said it's too long.
Can you tell me with a picture where to cut off please?

thx!

Hi Chris

with a rear counterweight battery for the light you will have no problem pulling the shoulder for a long time and the camera remains steady

Hi Serggio

If you look at older threads here you will see that a light battery does nothing and, in fact you need around 3kg of counterweight to balance out the camera which makes it VERY heavy on your shoulder. The rod works a lot better because it lifts the weight of the front end via the springs. This means if you change lenses it always works...if you used just a counterweight you would need to also adjust it every time you changed a lens!!

Chris

Hi Tom

Ok here is the routine to make that piece shorter.

(1) Unscrew the flexi-joint so you have just the plastic fitting attached to the rod.
(2) look at the top few millimetres of the rod and you will see a pin securing it to the top tube. Use a nail and a light hammer to simply drive it out (the hole goes right thru)
(3) Pull out the plastic fitting and you will see the top is the fat bit and the end piece is the thinner piece that went inside the top tube.
(4) Drill a 5mm hole right thru from top to bottom ...it's already drilled 3/4 way so just continue the hole so it exits out the skinny bit at the bottom.
(5) Use a 1/4"BSW tap (cheap at the hardware store) and cut a thread starting at the thin end where your drill bit came out and turn the tap in until a thread has been cut the length of the thin section only.
(6) Use a hacksaw to cut off just the thin section and wack it back into the top tube and because you have a thread going thru the middle now ..screw the flexi-joint into that and discard the fat section of plastic

Voila ..your rod is now around 3" shorter!! and is great to use!!


Also remember that I actually have scrapped the bottom plastic plate and it's ball joint too! My rod has nothing on the end at all (except for the thread where the ball threaded piece went in) Instead on the belt part I have a cheap "L" shaped shelf bracket that also drops everything lower down ...I have a standard mini ball head bolted to the piece of the bracket that sticks out and on top of the mini ball head is a piece of plastic PVC pipe that acts as a receiver for the rod. There is a pic on post #6 of this very thread so you can see how I have done it.

Chris

Chris,

I don't understand.
If I unscrew the bottom plastic plate and look into the tube I see it's already drilled. So why can't I cut here a part of it? See attached picture. and after cutting screw bottom plastic plate back in?

Looks so easy this way?

Hi Tom

You are looking at the wrong end!! The mod is done on the other end!!! Where the flexi shaft is ..all we are doing is reducing the length of the plastic fitting between the top tube (smallest diameter) and the flexi shaft that goes into the fitting under your camera

so......looking at the TOP of the rod completely opposite to your pic......

(1) Unscrew the flexi-joint so you have just the plastic fitting attached to the rod.
(2) look at the top few millimetres of the rod and you will see a pin securing it to the top tube. Use a nail and a light hammer to simply drive it out (the hole goes right thru)
(3) Pull out the plastic fitting and you will see the top is the fat bit and the end piece is the thinner piece that went inside the top tube.
(4) Drill a 5mm hole right thru from top to bottom ...it's already drilled 3/4 way so just continue the hole so it exits out the skinny bit at the bottom.
(5) Use a 1/4"BSW tap (cheap at the hardware store) and cut a thread starting at the thin end where your drill bit came out and turn the tap in until a thread has been cut the length of the thin section only.
(6) Use a hacksaw to cut off just the thin section and wack it back into the top tube and because you have a thread going thru the middle now ..screw the flexi-joint into that and discard the fat section of plastic


Ok once that is done your rod is now 3" shorter (because we have cut away the fat part of the black plastic fitting) Then I have left the bottom end of the rod exactly as your pic shows and used my new fitting shown in my pic in post #6

The top of the rod should look like the pic here

Chris

step 1 I finally found what you mean.
but about step 2 I doubt: in the picture I have put a yellow and blue circle. Which color do you mean with:

a pin securing it to the top tube ?

I already tried the blue option but couldn't drive it out. I hope you mean the yellow circle. (didn't tried that one)

Sorry, Chris.

Hi Tom

Don't touch the bottom of the rod (blue circle) you only need to tap the pin out where you have marked the yellow circle ... just find a thin nail and gently tap the pin and it will push out so you can pull the black plastic bit from the top tube.

Chris

chris,

I don't know how you did it but this didn't worked out for me.
I did it my way. Just cut a part of the rod and the spring. (first removed the spring out of the rod)

For me this just easier, . Just tested it and it works! Still a bit too long. Will cut later more of it.

Hi Tom

I did that the first time (I have two of these rods) and the biggest issue is that if you cut the spring what you do is increase it's tension and make it less flexible. I found with shorter springs I simply didn't have enough travel to use the rod successfully so I found keeping the length was better. May I suggest that you look around locally (with a sample spring in hand) and try to replace both springs with ones that have a slightly thinner diameter wire ?? That will bring back the flexibility to the rod. Otherwise it will be way to stiff if you need to tilt down the camera

Chris

have posted a picture of me in action with the rod. Glad I bought it. Thanks Chris!

I want my camera back! :) That's quite a set up you got there Tom, it looks like you also need to shorten the loupe?

Great Tom

It makes a huge difference when you especially have a heavy lens up front!! My 18-35 Sigma F1.8 is a brute at almost 1kg so I really need the support with that one especially for long periods!

Absolutely yes..shorten your loupe tube! It makes a huge difference as the camera will sit better on your shoulder as the tube is shorter. If you look at yourself in a mirror with the normal length you will see that the pad sits too far forward and with the shorter tube the pad sits on your shoulder where it should sit!


Don't worry, Noa is happy with his GH4!!

Chris

I want my camera back! :) That's quite a set up you got there Tom, it looks like you also need to shorten the loupe?


The rod is from 2 "sticks" I removed 1 stick. With the manfrotto simply handles I can switch position with my hands. Without the rod is not possible, way too heavy!

It looks like Tom is protecting his lens from nuclear explosions and major sun flares.! That camera is now as big as the rover ESA just landed on a comet! In fact, he could mount solar panels on those barn doors and power the camera.

Chris, Thank you for all of the time and effort you put into sharing your experience with all of us on this forum. This tread is just one of many examples of what you do here!

Steve

Hi Steve

My big problem is that I still don't listen!! Yeah I just HAD to also get matte boxes and the camera was so darn front heavy I was expecting to pull a muscle in my back! I sold off the matte boxes quite fast. I would think that the boxes combined with a decent lens would more than equal the weight of the camera!

Chris

can I use this rod for using a steadycam?
Can I put the rod into a steadycam? After filming carnival and walked all the time the footage is not realy steady.

Look @ my trailer here:

trailer carnaval moes-kastel 2015 - YouTube

@ 2min06 sec you see what I mean when filming and walking. I think a steadycam would be usefull for this.
But a steadycam without an "arm" will be too heavy. Was walking around for about 3 hours!

I have no experience with a steadycam.

@Chris, my back was still ok after this filming. Can't thank you enough for this.

Hi Tom

Nice job there!! Yes you are correct in saying that the support rod will not work like a stedicam ! It's perfect when you are in one place but will NOT absorb any shock movements as you walk or run. You need a stedicam for moving shots. It's OK if you move very slowly but as you walk with the rod you will find it tends to move left and right creating bumps in the footage. It certainly does help a LOT by stopping your arms getting tired!!!

Chris

Hey Chris, thx for the answer but still don't know if I can put the the rod into a steadycam?
Could I put the flexible joint from the rod into the bottom of the grip of a steadycam?

This could save me a lot of money.

Do you mean to use a steadicam vest and arm and to suspend the rod and camera on that arm, instead of using a steadicam?

Hi Noa

I think he means put the camera on a handheld stedicam and then insert the rod into the handle so you are not trying to hold up the sled and camera with your arm but rather with your rod and belt. No vest or arm are involved.

Tom I have never tried it and have no idea if it would work but my initial reaction would be don't as you have no control really. Rather get a vest and arm and put the sled on that and put the rod away..it's designed for static shots only. There are a couple are very well made stedicams in China now ...I scrapped my big heavy rig and got a Wieldy one ..carbon fibre sled, well machined arm and a beautiful vest and with the cam it all weighs under 10kg!! Flies like a dream too!! I paid under $600 for the whole deal but you might have to lighten your EA-50 a bit!! Yours is really overloaded with balance weights and extra bits and pieces.

Chris

That would not work well, that rod doesn't function like a vest and arm does so you still would be introducing unwanted movements while you walk and just add the extra weight of the steadicam itself.

That's why I said "don't" ...using a stedicam even with a dual arm still requires you to walk like a cat smoothly and quietly so imagine if you walk without an arm? The sled with simply jump around ! As you walk with a waist belt and rod as you lift each leg the rod will kick over towards the opposite side. Try putting on the waist belt with the rod inserted with no camera and walk forward with both hands on the rod and as you walk feel how much it kicks to the left and right as your take steps. As Noa says too ..it won't work so don't even try it ... it's brilliant for long sequences BUT you have to say in one place !! If you need to move, get a stedicam and vest setup

thx for the answers Noa and Chris. Have looked for a cheap steadycam with vest and arm and found this one:

Flycam 5000 Review | F5 Show - YouTube

cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.