View Full Version : Saved by the Rod!
Steven Digges February 25th, 2015, 12:21 PM Hey Tom,
Before you order it wait for Chris to chime in. He just bought a discounted rig he is very happy with. I would find out the details on that one too.
Steve
Noa Put February 25th, 2015, 02:11 PM cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.
Don't underestimate the weight of such a rig including your camera and the strain it will put on your back, a few years back I hired a steadicam operator for a few jobs, before I had my blackbird, and he had a steadicam pilot where he flew a sony fx1000 on. After a 3 hour event and not even using the camera continuously he was totally exhausted and he was a big athletic guy, so eventhough it might have looked like a walk in the park for a guy of his posture it only showed how much effort it took to fly for longer periods. I think Chris can share that experience as well as he uses one.
Chris Harding February 25th, 2015, 06:07 PM Thanks Guys
Ok I have been the proud (or not so proud) owmer of not one but FOUR flycam rigs I had a Flycam 5000 and then a Flycam 6000 which was too heavy so I bought another flycam 5000 and finally replaced it with a flycam 5500 which is probably the pick of the bunch. They have all dropped substantially in price since I had them.
Honestly the build quality is adequate, but not brilliant on the Indian rigs and they do work. However Tom you need to strip all the bits and pieces off your camera (rails, counter weight, matte box) to be practical.
Yes, I now have a bit of a hybrid system made by Wieldy and Came-TV in China ...and it's 50% lighter than what my Flycam 5500 used to be fully laden and as Noa says after 30 minutes with a 15-20kg load on you your back is on fire and you are pouring sweat!! It's NOT easy work so getting down to half my original rig load helped me a LOT survive even a 15 minute session.
If you strip your accessories off your camera you can get away with the Flycam 5000 it's a single arm rig that does work but tends to be bouncier than dual arm rigs
Look around at Laing, Wieldy and Came-TV ..they are engineered a lot better but cost more ...if you want something just to "try out" and sell later on eBay grab a Flycam 5000 Comfort vest and sled.
Chris
Tom Van den Berghe February 26th, 2015, 05:23 AM thx Chris but is there a huge difference between single and dual arms?
The footage I have seen online from the flycam 5000 looks pretty good to me. (more than good enough in my opinion for mostly hobby)
Yes, I will strip down my nex-ea50. the counterweight (1,2kg) and the manfrotto sympla handles (thought also about 1kg). Would like to keep the mattebox. The weight will be around 3 kg - max 3,5 kg.
My sony hxr-nx3 is 2,7 kg.
Because I survived it with the rod I think I will survive it with the flycam 5000?
Noa Put February 26th, 2015, 06:05 AM The wheight distribution is totally different between en vest/arm and a rod, if you say you can walk around 3 hours with that rod suspended on a belt that's around your waist you can't do the same with a vest and arm, it will put a lot more strain on your back.
Chris Harding February 26th, 2015, 06:42 AM Hi Tom
A lot of people look at a rig and see that it says "1 - 7.5kg" Great , your cam will be 3.5kg BUT most sled ratings INCLUDE the sled weight not just the camera! My Wieldy sled is a light carbon fibre and is 2.2kg ..my camera is about the same so the arm has to support nearly 5kg ... be careful with that!!
Seriously what Noa says is very true ... a rig weighing a few kilos will kill your back after 30 minutes... remember you are carrying the arm, the vest the sled and the camera!!! I would take off the rail and matte box too ...your matte box is quite heavy up front and just the box and rail add over 1kg to the rig.
A single arm is very "bouncy" you will have issues trying to keep your top frame consistent and it will tend to bob up and down a bit ... a dual arm is better as the rear bones and springs provide the lift and the front bones and springs keep the camera level.
Personally I found the comfort arm and vest simply not strong enough to take my Panasonic HMC80's which are about the same as the EA-50 .. however the choice is yours
Just for interest my camera also uses a Tamron 10-24mm lens up front in stedicam mode with a fixed focus ..at 10mm it's wide enough to be in focus set to 2.5' on the lens, from 2' to infinity ....the power zoom will struggle to autofocus a bit too!!
Stedicams are another world completely but once you use them they are quite addictive!! Love the easy camera movements you can achieve!!!
Chris
Tom Van den Berghe February 26th, 2015, 03:04 PM ok, chris and Noa. I will skip the flycam 5000. Looking at the wieldy carbon steadycam with dual arms. A bit more expensive (still not expensive compared to brand names)
At this moment I think go for that one.
Tom Van den Berghe August 26th, 2015, 11:59 AM I purchaded the flycam HD-3000 with arm and vest and received it today. Glad I bought the arm and vest because it's heavy. I used my sony hxr-nx3 which is 2.8 kg. Stil testing and learning how to setup. and watch tutorials and tips.
Chris Harding August 26th, 2015, 08:18 PM Hi Tom
That's neat ..Did they give you the quick release plate with it as well?? It does make fitting the camera to the top sled a LOT easier. They are so cheap now definitely worth getting!! Just remember to keep your camera weight down to a minimum as their "3.5kg" estimates are often wrong .. You need your EA-50 at a maximum of 2kg .. no more otherwise you will find the springs on the arm will bottom out!! I would run it without your rail and matte box to save top weight.
Chris
Tom Van den Berghe August 29th, 2015, 12:09 PM hey Ron,
yes, i comes with a quick release plate. I removed the mattebox, ... But still weights about 3 kg with battery and the kitlens. I did a testshot today without the arm and vest. After balancing it it worked great. But after a while a of testing my arm was getting tired.
Now I wanted it to test with arm and vest but I don't how to use it. Because I'm righthanded I thought to use the spring on the right side?
See the pictures and the testmovie
flycam HD-3000 on Vimeo
Tom Van den Berghe August 29th, 2015, 12:12 PM and the pictures
Chris Harding August 29th, 2015, 07:37 PM Perfect Tom
There is no specific side to use the rig. Most can work on the left or the right... Yours is a centre mount so all you need to do is swing the solid arm over to the left or the right. Try both sides and see what feels more comfortable ...I have my arm on my right ..but that's my preference.
Sounds like you have everything set up well and you weight looks about right ...If you hold the arm gently the top of the spring frame should be horizontal ..that way you have maximum boom up and boom down distances.
Noa Put August 30th, 2015, 03:26 AM Hi Tom! I see you are still using the ea50, just a quick question, the way you hold teh steadicam with your left hand on the photo's, is that the way you hold it while you are flying?
Tom Van den Berghe August 30th, 2015, 04:18 AM Noa, I hold the handle with my right hand because I'm right handed.
I use my left hand to gently guide the flycam. And that's so diificult in the beginning. When I start to walk I loose the control.
Noa Put August 30th, 2015, 04:28 AM But do you hold the vertical rod as low down as shown in the pictures?
Tom Van den Berghe August 30th, 2015, 04:45 AM Yes Noa, I think I walk like that. Still learning how to hold it and walk.
With my right hand i can hold the handle lower and closer to me. otherwise the spring bump the handle all the way up.
Always nice to hear some tips to use it
Noa Put August 30th, 2015, 05:02 AM Your left hand that controlls the direction your camera is facing is positioned way to low, you should use that hand only to gently touch the vertical bar just below the position of the handle and with gently touching I mean like pinching/tapping it with 2 or 3 fingers just to give it direction and if it's going to the right direction don't touch it anymore. Nver grab that bar with your full hand. Your balance seems to be off as well and it looks bottom heavy, if you would test it I would do that inside where there is no wind beause that can trow it off balance. Just google on steadicam balancing and you will find many video how to balance and use a steadiam properly.
Chris Harding August 30th, 2015, 05:02 AM Hi Tom
The correct left hand position should be your thumb and 3 fingers very gently touching the post just below the gimbal ..it's only for control and rotation. If you take your left hand away the sled should just sit there as long as you stand still ... also in the normal straight ahead position your right hand only needs to also lightly tough the foam handle ..nothing harder! If you have to fight the arm to keep the camera in position then it's not set up right at all. If you stand still and let both hands go what happens?? The camera and sled should remain directly in front of you hands free and the arm bones top and bottom should be horizontal ... If any effort is needed to control the camera and sled then you need to redo your setup, balance and dynamic balance!! I honestly think that a single spring arm is not tough enough on that rig for a 3kg camera ...you may need to get a bigger spring if it bottoms out???
Tom Van den Berghe August 30th, 2015, 06:11 AM NOa, Chris,
I looked several tutorials for setting this up. The drop time is about 2 seconds I think. When I stand still the camcorder is balanced correcly I think. It's not gong to the front or back and not going to left or right
But when I start walking it begins to turn or going left or right of front or back. Maybe not balanced perfectly or I have to do lots of practising.with my left hand I touch i gently.
But touching gently seems not strong enough to avoid it turning
Noa Put August 30th, 2015, 06:21 AM If it sways left or right or front to back means it's not balanced right, when it starts to turn left or right when you move doesn't sound normal to me, might be an inferior quality gimbal that is causing this. Does it also turn left or right when you hold it still?
Tom Van den Berghe August 30th, 2015, 08:19 AM Noa, Chris,
I just did a test. Sorry for the bad quality. My wife filmed with a camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcbqUoSpOc&feature=youtu.be
Let me know what's still wrong, what's already good,... thank you!
Chris Harding August 30th, 2015, 08:48 AM Hi Tom
That looks pretty good for balance and the springs also look about right. OK, here's what is wrong.. your arm connection to the vest is MUCH too high ..see how high the camera is?? On the front of the vest is adjustments for the static arm connector joint ..drop that down about 6" at least!! It's way ,way too high!!! I can see that your own arm is getting in the way of the spring arm so everything should be a LOT lower.. Just readjust the front plate of the vest so the static arm is much lower ..it should be close to your waist and the camera when static should be around shoulder height or even lower .. I can see the camera is blocking your vision which is crazy ..the top of your EA-50 needs to be no higher than your cheek ...If you look at your wife's video you will see that you are pulling the whole arm down just to see where you are going. Now the other thing you need to get is an LCD display and put it on the bottom sled where you can see what you are shooting ... Just find one they normally sells for use in cars (7" TFT LCD) and then get a CCTV 12v lithium battery to power it ...(should be less than $50.00) ... With the camera at the correct stedicam height you should NOT be able to see the camera EVF as it will be too low ..hence the need for a bottom LCD.
Hope this helps
Chris
Tom Van den Berghe August 30th, 2015, 09:54 AM hey Chris,
thx for wathing my video. Now you said this from it's way too high my wife confirmed what you are saying.
I was so focused on balancing I didn't put attention on that. Now I lowered the vest and now it's at the lowest setting. It looks and feels much better now!
Thank you so much again. I will practice again soon with this new adjustments.
The LCD screen looks perfectly to watch without an external monitor.
Chris Harding August 30th, 2015, 07:10 PM Much better Tom
I bet that's a lot more comfortable too!! Your camera is now at the correct height and the spring tension looks pretty much perfect too!! You will find that it will be much easier to fly too and your elbow will be clear of the spring arm.
Also get your drop time closer to 3 seconds ..(proper 3 seconds so count 1001, 1002, 1003) You will find that most 2 second drops are more like 1.5 seconds ...when you let the sled go from horizontal the sled should appear to almost float before dropping and needs to swing thru the centre just before you say the "1003" ... a bottom heavy sled will give you annoying sway which you don't want especially with a single spring arm!!
Now go out and shoot some footage!!
Tom Van den Berghe September 8th, 2015, 11:44 AM I shoot some footage for real this time. I walked 3 hours around with the nex-ea50 and the flycam HD-3000 +arm and vest. My back didn't hurt surprisingly. only my shoulders hurt a bit.
Here is a quick testvideo of it. I'm happy with the result.
testfilmpje blozen bloemencorso - YouTube
Tom Van den Berghe February 1st, 2016, 01:19 PM I have to film this sunday carnival and it will rain.
Do I have to protect the arm and vest against the rain? Or is this rain proof?
Here was a test movie
flycam HD-3000 - YouTube
Noa Put February 1st, 2016, 02:37 PM No it's not rain proof! same as your camera, you have to protect everything from water.
Tom Van den Berghe February 1st, 2016, 02:53 PM Somebody told me to use silicon spray to protect it. Do yo have experience with this?
Tom Van den Berghe February 6th, 2016, 06:30 AM Today and tomorrow there will be lost of wind. mY test just outside was not so smooth. Do I have to change the droptime of my flycam? A faster droptime in windy conditions?
Noa Put February 6th, 2016, 06:44 AM Your steadicam will be swaying in all directions if it's too bottom heavy but it will help if there is wind, steadicams just don't like windy conditions, only steadicams with 3 axis gimbals will keep level even with hard wind.
Noa Put February 6th, 2016, 06:46 AM Somebody told me to use silicon spray to protect it. Do yo have experience with this?
No experience in using that spray, you also might get dust and dirt sticking to your steadicam and joints in that way, I would not use that.
Chris Harding February 6th, 2016, 07:19 AM The problem with wind is that the post and bottom sled provide a target for the wind ... try holding an aluminium pole up in the air on a windy day and despite the thin pole the wind will still buffet it around. The pros often use an assistant with a wind barrier to walk beside them when shooting in a strong breeze. As Noa says if you make the drop time heavier (more weight on the bottom sled) the whole sled with have a pendulum effect and start to sway ...you need about 3 seconds at least for a correctly balanced rig otherwise to might as well forget the stedicam and just put the camera on a piece of pipe !
Is it essential to shoot this on a rig?? Surely you can handhold as well??
Tom Van den Berghe February 6th, 2016, 12:09 PM Chris; Noa,
Thx for your input.
Yes Chris, I can handhold This. Few months ago I shot my first (and still the only one) shoot outside. I posted the testmovie in this thread.
NOw my setup will be less heavy because I will not use the stocklens but a prime zeiss F1.8 which i a lot less heavier.
Walking bewtween the people in this carnival is much more "realistic" then shooting from a tripod an a fixed place.
I will check my 3 seconds droptime. Maybe It's now too fast. thx
Noa Put February 6th, 2016, 12:34 PM That 3 second droptime might get your steadicam balanced but it will be useless when you use it outside in windy conditions, your only other option is to just shoot handheld or on a monopod.
Chris Harding February 7th, 2016, 01:28 AM How about a hoverboard?? I saw someone on one the other day and they really look cool ..you could handhold and zip around the people and get some awesome footage!!
Otherwise I would just go handheld ...for that sort of event a couple of wobbles makes the footage look a lot more realistic anyway!!
Dave Sperling February 7th, 2016, 08:06 AM One other option is of course to operate the steadicam the 'wrong' way -- actually maintain a firm grip on the post rather than letting the camera sled primarily float on the gimbal. (Or even using two hands - one high and one low)
Yes, I know this takes away a great deal of the steadiness of the system -- what it does however is provide you with a way to support the camera's weight (the arm is still supporting the weight) while giving you a way to operate semi-handheld and stay in control when the wind hits. All the real steadicam operators will tell you this defeats the system -- but it might be worth giving a try nonetheless. (However, just as you wouldn't take on a steadicam gig without having spent plenty of time flying the rig, you'd need to try this out in advance to see if it works for you.) A lot will depend on the specific shots you are trying to capture...
Tom Van den Berghe February 8th, 2016, 12:58 PM There wa a lot of wind and at that moment I thought none of my shots were good.
When I looked at home the footage was decent.
I made a trailer of it. At 25sec the footage of the steadycam starts.
trailer carnaval moes-kastel 2016 - YouTube
Glad next month most groups will do again a carnival near me. So I have a second chance for some shots.
So I can practice more because still didn't find the right "position" to use the steadycam.
Noa Put February 8th, 2016, 01:07 PM It actually looks very good considering the windy conditions at this moment, how did you shoot now? Did you hold the steadicam like Dave suggested? Can I ask what framerate you shoot and how much percentage you slow the footage down? Just asking becaus ethe footage stutters a bit which can either be a too slow framerate or a too high percentage of slowing the footage down.
Chris Harding February 8th, 2016, 09:40 PM That looks pretty stable Tom!
Just be careful not to overdo the slomo ..it works well for specific scenarios (like a girl running thru the forest to meet her lover type of stuff) At this sort of event you want to capture the energy of the event rather than slow it all down. If you shoot at 25P and slow it down you will get some blur so 50P is probably the way to go if you want slomo .... to get a crispy clear slomo you need a decent frame rate. On my Panasonics I shoot my slomos at 100fps and there is no blur at all and the camera also processes the video down to 25% for me. In fact if you can live with a reduced vertical resolution shooting at 50i and then dropping the footage onto a 25P timeline allows better slomo than shooting at 25P
Tom Van den Berghe February 9th, 2016, 03:13 PM It actually looks very good considering the windy conditions at this moment, how did you shoot now? Did you hold the steadicam like Dave suggested? Can I ask what framerate you shoot and how much percentage you slow the footage down? Just asking becaus ethe footage stutters a bit which can either be a too slow framerate or a too high percentage of slowing the footage down.
I shot like I shot before. So not like Dave suggested because I dindn't read that on time.
Filmed like in the previous clip I posted @ my house.
Framerate -> I Film in 50P and shutterspeed is mostly @ 1/50 with F1.8 lens and with the nd filter I could hold the F1.8 for the more shallow background.
The camcorder was in auto because I had to focus the flycam and peaking on the screen for focus.
percentage slowdown footage I don't know. Some clips will be slower than the others depending on the music I had choosen.
Hope this helps Noa
Tom Van den Berghe February 9th, 2016, 03:16 PM That looks pretty stable Tom!
Just be careful not to overdo the slomo ..it works well for specific scenarios (like a girl running thru the forest to meet her lover type of stuff) At this sort of event you want to capture the energy of the event rather than slow it all down. If you shoot at 25P and slow it down you will get some blur so 50P is probably the way to go if you want slomo .... to get a crispy clear slomo you need a decent frame rate. On my Panasonics I shoot my slomos at 100fps and there is no blur at all and the camera also processes the video down to 25% for me. In fact if you can live with a reduced vertical resolution shooting at 50i and then dropping the footage onto a 25P timeline allows better slomo than shooting at 25P
In this trailer I use slowmotions but when the editing is finished I don't use any slowmotions but the energy and live music/crowd of the event.
Always shoot in 50P because I like to use slowmotions.
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