The odd item I have bought from India has been marked as camera parts and devalued to a crazy level! I think my stedicam which cost $1270 came in with a value of $34.00!

We are slightly different here. We don't pay any duty on cameras that come in as imports BUT if they are over $1000 then we have to pay 10% General Sales Tax, not only on the item but the shipping costs too.

I have bought two sets of Panasonic cameras from Global Media Pro based in New Zealand and they are very strict with prices and won't de-value them even by one cent so I paid the GST on every item I bought from them. The Hong Kong dealers seem to enjoy trying to buck the system. With warranty yes, their advertised warranty is genuine BUT you have to ship the item back to the dealer in HK who then send it to Japan for repair or replacement ...fair enough it only costs you shipping but you would probably be without a camera for quite a few months which, for our business is an issue!

The way I see it with imports they are actually all "grey goods" my Pannys were made in Japan and had 100% genuine serial numbers and I could register them but all repair centres here will not touch them as they were not shipped from Australia. I think the only difference is a jacked up price which helps cover the local repair centres cover warranty costs and cover local support. With my latest Sony's the camera serials are Australian and that gives me local warranty and support. I would say that's where the price difference comes in.

I wonder what the manufacture plate says on the A7S cameras ..My Nikons I bought were made in Japan and some Nikon lenses also are made in Japan but the kit lenses (which I sold off) came from China and Thailand ???

However it still seems that VAT is a big rip off! People who are using cameras for fun at home should have to pay VAT but professional videographers should really be tax exempt!!

Chris

It shoots 8bit 4:2:2 at 100mbps (not that I'm certain what 4:2:2 means! Ha!), which had everyone raving upon its release. Also, you can shoot 10 bit with the adaptor if the user is crazy about getting the most out of the image in post.

I understood the 100mb/s mode to be 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally. Is this incorrect?

Also, has anyone found evidence that it's true 10 bit 4:2:2 externally (HDMI) rather than an 8 bit 4:2:0 in a 10 bit 4:2:2 wrapper like so many other cameras do? I'm hoping it's a true 10 bit 4:2:2 since that's what they are using to get things to the SDI ports on the expansion unit.

However it still seems that VAT is a big rip off! People who are using cameras for fun at home should have to pay VAT but professional videographers should really be tax exempt!!

As a professional you cannot be tax exempt but if you have a turnover greater than £81K they must be registered for VAT & will be able to reclaim any VAT they pay not just on cameras but on anything purchased by way of the business. This is fine for commercial work & you may opt to register even if your turnover is below the tax threshold, The downside if your customers are all consumers e.g. you are a wedding videographer is that you must charge them VAT on your services thus raising prices compared to your competitors who are not VAT registered.

I understood the 100mb/s mode to be 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally. Is this incorrect?

Also, has anyone found evidence that it's true 10 bit 4:2:2 externally (HDMI) rather than an 8 bit 4:2:0 in a 10 bit 4:2:2 wrapper like so many other cameras do? I'm hoping it's a true 10 bit 4:2:2 since that's what they are using to get things to the SDI ports on the expansion unit.

My apologies.

It's 4:2:0 to SD card in 8 bit.
And 4:2:2 to external recorder via mini HDMI in 8 or 10 bit.

And it's 'real time' 10 bit 4:2:2 externally... I'm sure Philip Bloom said 'true 10 bit' in his review, but I can't recall exactly. Again, I'm new to codec stuff... I need to learn more about it.

Ah yeah I totally understand. I guess I was approaching the situation as someone who was not vested in any system and they were purchasing to cover any and all situations.

Again I don't think the GH4 or A7s cover most of the situations during weddings. Then again the C100 does not: it is larger and does not have slow motion.

When it boils down to the GH4 vs A7s it all depends on the shooter and their needs. Do you favor a razor sharp 4k image in an ergonomic camera or a filmic 1080p look with terrible ergonomics? I favor the look the A7s over the GH4 much more aside from the crop-ability but it can be so clunky to work with.

Ah that makes a lot of sense, Edward. I'm with you: if I owned a C100, I wouldn't be considering either the A7S or the GH4. I would however, be mightily interested in the update of the C100 and be hoping that it's 4K.

Fair comment about the C100 though, I would be interested in shooting slow motion... so in that regard, which slow motion camera would you choose?

What about using a grading tool such as Film Convert? Would you still get unacceptable graded images with the GH4? I need to research this more...

Fair comment about the C100 though, I would be interested in shooting slow motion... so in that regard, which slow motion camera would you choose?

I'm gonna through a curve ball in here..... I DO have a C100, it's my go to camera. I hate the crappy look from Canon DSLRs now - yet I'm still considering the GH4 for 4K mode and for doing 1080p slow-mo......that and it's light enough to get up in to the air on a multirotor.

I'm gonna through a curve ball in here..... I DO have a C100, it's my go to camera. I hate the crappy look from Canon DSLRs now - yet I'm still considering the GH4 for 4K mode and for doing 1080p slow-mo......that and it's light enough to get up in to the air on a multirotor.

Hmmm I think they're amazing for drone stuff... I love the GH line up, don't get me wrong... I just think that if I'd spent as much as I have on the M4/3 line up on the Canon line up for wedding videos, I think I'd be a happier person right about now with a C100.

That said, the weight and size advantage is fantastic... and I love the M4/3 lens line up - especially the 75 f1.8 and the 25 f1.4 - heck, even the 12 f2 - and I have yet to get the 42.5mm f1.2.

I know slow mo is supposed to be soft at 96fps and I also know that I know little about grading - other than what I've learned from Rob Adams and Ray Roman (on their courses via CL, which I've watched loads), but the GH3 and 4 yield IQ that has had people ask me, "Wow, what do you shoot with?" including wedding videographers who are kitted out with 5Ds - not to say that they were more impressed with the HD quality from my GH3, but that it is more than adequate.

Can't wait to shoot more weddings though... when looking at my last film, I missed a couple of hours here and there because I was a groomsmen, whereas at my next two weddings I'm just the videographer... going to have a lot more time to be creative and get more footage.

Anyways... back to the thread topic...

Yep I've graded GH4 footage with Film Convert and Impulz and the result was okay. It doesn't hold up well under less than ideal low light situations (1600 or higher) if you plan on grading it. Then again, I was shooting with Cinelike-d presets using a few custom picture profiles (forgot which ones). If I had kept the camera, I would be testing alternatives to Cinelike-d for grading, much like S-log 2 on the A7s is not all it's hyped up to be.

Hmmm I think they're amazing for drone stuff... I love the GH line up, don't get me wrong... I just think that if I'd spent as much as I have on the M4/3 line up on the Canon line up for wedding videos, I think I'd be a happier person right about now with a C100.

Agreed I love the C100.

I'm currently selling one of my 5D3 bodies (< 1650 clicks) if any one is interested. It works perfectly but I rarely use it since it no longer suits my needs. I'm going to keep the other one for photos only.

Some more stuff on the A7s from Philip Bloom

The evolving review of the Sony A7s now with extreme low light video. | Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.net/2014/07/03/a7s/)

Interesting to note that Philip got his from Digitalrev.com - a company that imports from Hong Kong!!!!!

Peter, why is that noteworthy? Buying from DigitalRev isn't illegal or anything.

Phillip, like myself simply wanted to get his hands on it as soon as he could. And save £350!

Well earlier in the thread the debate turned to the legality (or not) of grey imports/sourcing from Hong Kong and avoiding import duty - I for one am going to DigitalRev for mine and the money I save will pay for the metabones adapter for my EF lenses :) no more struggling at 18-24db for dark evening receptions - happy days :)

I enquired with Digitalrev and Panamoz, and they both say that they pay the import duties, not the customer.

Good man Peter!

I'm also excited about evening parties. I used to have to talk to the band and the venue about light levels - I also had to carry lighting rig with me in the car for extreme darkness. No more!

Also, even in occasions where the light is ok, I can now narrow the aperture and have more than one person at a time in focus on the dancefloor!

I enquired with Digitalrev and Panamoz, and they both say that they pay the import duties, not the customer.

I've used Digitalrev several times over the years for high value items and they've been solid. I have no experience of Panamoz.

But be careful - Digitalrev can have two listings on its website, one the price with everything paid up front and the other (lower) where you take your chances so to speak. So you may have been talking at cross purposes. I'd be surprised if anything got through customs nowadays from Digitalrev as they are such a large well established seller.

You may not get to know about import duties vat and processing fees until after delivery. I've had invoices from Fedex after delivery and there was no mention of it before or on delivery. Other couriers may require you to pay on physical delivery or notify you once delivery is possible so that you settle beforehand.

Pete

This is the response I got from DigitalRev

"Furthermore, please note our listing price has already included import tax fee therefore our customers are not liable for this charge. Therefore to confirm, the final price you find on our check out page is the final price for your order price".

Pete

I'm excited about this camera for it's low light performance, focus aids, Zebras (not to mention 50p and an articulated screen) - the 5D3 will be relegated to stills work from now on - Canon dropped the ball on the mark 3 for me.

Pete

I've bought a couple of times from Digital Rev, always fast delivery, always included delivery and taxes. Nothing more to pay.

I know this is a bit off topic but for those that have purchased from digital rev, is the price on the invoice vat included and what's the percentage of vat? Or do they sell ex vat like Panamoz does? This is quite important to know because if they don't charge vat it is much cheaper to buy the same camera locally as a company. A a7s f.i. would be 1980 euro ex tax where I live and digital rev charges 2261 euro but the question remains, is there any vat to deduct as a company and what percentage is that?

For those who have moved from canon to the a7s, what are you doing regards lenses? Are you switching to sony lenses as well? Or are you using adapters? If so which ones?

I'm planning to keep my Canon EF lenses and buy the Metabones smart adapter

Pete

I've gone for this cheap one, bit of a risk but have read some fairly decent experiences with it - the Metabones is probably better made but for the money they ask there are some fairly mixed reviews to do with losing connection, having to restart camera etc

Commlite ComTrig AF Mount Adapter EF-NEX fr Canon Lens to Sony+IS Exact Exposure | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Commlite-ComTrig-AF-Mount-Adapter-EF-NEX-fr-Canon-Lens-to-Sony-IS-Exact-Exposure-/190923374863?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item2c73eb810f)

That's interesting Ade - Never heard of Commlite before - let us know how it performs as i'm tempted - The Metabones is expensive - nearly the same price as the speedbooster and yet it has no glass - you'd think it would be a little less pricey than it is!

yes would have gone Metabones if it was rock solid but am loath to pay premium prices if it has issues.

Yes please Ade share your experience - I'm going to purchase real soon and wouldn't want to make an expensive mistake!

Will do when I actually get it - their free shipping means any time in 1st half of August it seems

Finally felt confident enough to use the A7s on a wedding and the camera is simply amazing. It matched VERY closely post grading to our C100s and the image just looks so filmic. The 50mbps codec was perfect for a same day edit as well.

I'll post footage Monday.

Edward, what picture Profile did you go for? I've decided that SLog 2 will not be used for weddings for me!

Kholis Picture Profile 6 settings. Yeah S log 2 was too much of a pain to deal with and gets noisy in the shadows in post.

Just a quick heads up - mine arrived today and even though it's the 'World' version it's still limited to 29 minutes recording time - not really a problem for me but will be for those of you wanting to use it for ceremonies/speeches

Pete

Anyone using the A7s with EF lenses yet? Thoguhts?

Pete

Cool Pete

You can now shoot in the dark castle at F8 and still make it look like daylight!!

Chris

Chris the picture profiles at first glance look exactly like the ones for our EA50 cameras! I'm hoping as it has the same (although larger) Exmor sensor I should be able to match the footage nicely!

Pete

Yuanyuan and Di's Same Day Edit Video on Vimeo

Here is a same day edit that utilized 2 C100s and an A7s with EF glass. Only had 2 hours after the ceremony to put the edit together so some of the colors are a bit off. The A7s produces more green in its footage and as a result, I'd remove more green from the highlights in the future.

No stabilization was used for the A7s except for a monopod and IS on the glass.

Overall my only complaint with the camera (as a B camera) is the lackluster battery life.

Film Convert 2 and Impulz were used to color correct and grade.

Nice clip Edward, how long can you shoot with one battery on the a7s?

I guess the very shallow dof shots in the video where from the a7s?

One battery lasts 1.5 to 2 hours, more towards 1.5.

The a7s was used for most of the bridal prep minus the sliding shot of the groom and the outdoor/staircase shots.

It was also used during the ceremony for reaction shots, center, and the exit.

The only shots I was really displeased with were the center aisle shot. Then again the entire background were sunny windows. Maybe using slog 2 might have been better for highlight recovery.

All shots were taken with Kholis pp6 picture profile.

That's quite good battery life or where you expecting better? with my rx10 I often can't get passed 45 minutes on one battery and it takes ages to load the battery in camera.

Yeah the gh4 battery lasts muuuuuch longer and 1 a7s battery takes over 2 hours to charge.

Yes, the gh4 batterylife is exceptional, I do have to say that if you use stabilised lenses the battery drains a lot quicker but if you stick with non stabilised the battery just keeps on going.

The A7s comes with 2 batteries though :)

1,5 hour is really not bad, 2 of these batteries should get you through an entire weddingday if you have a second camera as well.

Yea, shot a wedding yesterday on two batteries. Had to put the first one on charge again at reception venue as precaution, but didn't actually need to use it. Two batteries was enough - but i will probably buy a third just for the peace of mind.

I have a friend in Nashville who was able to get a brand new Sony a7S for $2,249. Not a bad discount! Apparently they will price match Ebay prices. Saved $250 by negotiating with them. Something to keep in mind if you're looking at buying. Always negotiate!

Some low light high ISO shots I put together from my A7S.

Sony A7S Low Light High ISO Tests - Fireworks and Dancing on Vimeo

Can any A7s owner confirm an issue I'm having before I send mine back as faulty please (although it may be the lens adapter - not sure)

In manual mode with a fixed ISO (not auto) cycle up and down through the apertures - all is ok. Now press record and do the same - do you experience white flashes as the aperture opens up? Don't know if this is a fault or just the way it is with this camera - It happens with Metabones smart adapter and EF lenses but not with NEX lenses and camera in APS-C mode - Clive what adapter are you using and do you experience this?

Pete

Peter, just tried it and yes, I'm getting white flashes when the aperture is widening. Not when narrowing.

Would you normally change aperture whilst recording though? I know I wouldn't... not unless necessary. And if it were the case of light drastically changing mid clip - would ISO not be a better way to brighten the scene (theres no shortage of it! ;-) )

It's not the amount of iso you can use that will make the difference, it's how smooth the transition is. I guess the best way to have a smooth aperture change is to use a adapter that has a clickless aperture ring. I wish all dslr's could handle iso and aperture changes the way my rx10 can, that would be a big improvement.

Peter, just tried it and yes, I'm getting white flashes when the aperture is widening. Not when narrowing.

Would you normally change aperture whilst recording though? I know I wouldn't... not unless necessary. And if it were the case of light drastically changing mid clip - would ISO not be a better way to brighten the scene (theres no shortage of it! ;-) )

I guess unless I'm going for a particular DOF then I do quite often use the iris to control exposure - a throwback to old school camcorders that had 3 fixed gain positions (low/mid/hi) but also I've been using the 5D3 for the last year and have kept my ISO settings to multiples of 160 for a cleaner image (apparently the 5D introduces noise for 'inbetween' ISO settings) so I never just scrolled through ISO to adjust exposure.

Anyway I emailed Metabones and problem solved - I just needed to turn on advanced mode for the adapter - happy days!

Good to know!

Looks like I'm going against the flow here and just picked up a GH4.

Looks like I'm going against the flow here and just picked up a GH4.

Congrats on your new camera Dave! I really love the GH4.. I've had one problem with audio thus far, which was related to one particular codec (24p @100mbps), but internal 4K, peaking and zebras are amazing additions to an already great camera (GH3). Just shot my second wedding with it yesterday and it was a dream.

Well I really want to go with the A7s just for my receptions.. but jeeze the camera and then a lens.. thats 3,000 bucks. Damn.

Ok just to report back on Commlite adapter for using Canon lenses.....

Everything but continuous autofocus works, yet the camera will autofocus (slowly) if you press the shutter down half way.
Fit to camera is snug, a bit loose on the lens side but is very minor

Canon 70-200mm 2.8 mk2, Canon 17-55 2.8 (apsc), Canon 50mm 1.4 all work as above
lenses with quirks -
Canon 18-135mm STM will work auto focus but not manually - presume because it is focus by wire
Sigma 105mm 2.8 macro - will only go down to 3.2 on aperture - EDIT - can get 2.8 after all, just need to take off and put on again