Hi Guys

Has anyone successfully used a counter balance at the end of the shoulder pad ... I got a little disillusioned about how much weight is needed. I had some spare stedicam disc weights totalling 750g and hung those over the end of the bar on my shoulder pad so they dangled behind my back and seriously with the stock lens I can't see any huge advantage at all ..if someone lifts the weights off the end of the camera I cannot feel any balance difference at all ...there must be some but obviously 750g isn't enough to do anything to the balance ... I see the vocas weight is 1kg which is only 250g more than I have so that can't make a huge difference.

Maybe if the weight was extended 12" away from the shoulder pad it might be better but how much weight would you need to actually move the pivot point almost up to the pad itself???

Anyone tried different configurations and weights to get a really good balance??

Chris

I did use my wireless receiver and a battery for my swit light attached to the shoulderpad (see below), for run and gun interviews,it was the most easy setup I had ever used (considering I had been using dslr's and before that handicam style camera's like the canon xh-a1) but there was still too much weight in my hands, for interviews that took a little longer I had was struggling to hold the camera steady.

You also need to be careful not to overload that shoulderpad as it's not designed to carry a lot of weight, one thing you can do is move the camera further to the back by shortening the eyeloupe so that you don't have to extract the shouldermount and just leave it pushed in completely, that should distribute the wheight a bit better.

If you want this camera to balance you have to go much further back to counterbalance, as much as it looks like a shouldercamera it's not one at all, all the camera weight is in your hands, the shoulderpad is just another supportpoint to keep your camera steady and that it does well.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/sony-nex-ea50-all-variants/28633d1357565375-receiver-mount-comments-general-ea50_05.jpg

Thanks Noa

You showed me that a while back and I also have my rig like that. I figure that if you want the balance point right under the shoulder pad (where it should be) then you either need a VERY long arm that extends behind the pad with a moderate weight on it OR a very heavy weight just behind the pad which will make the entire camera quite a few kilograms heavier (if the pad assembly doesn't break first!!)

Guess I'll stick to my ENG mount which takes the weight off the front end with a sprung rod going into a waist belt. It makes the front end totally "weightless" when you hold the camera on your shoulder and the camera itself doesn't have any extra weight applied!

Chris

This is how I did it with the Vg20. There's over a kilo of lead shot it that black box at the back of the first shot but the rig works very well and is perfectly balanced, both N/S and E/W. As good as any ENG camera I have used. The counter weight, shoulder pad and carry handle are on separate rails so the pre assembled unit simply slides onto the same set of rails the camera and matte box are on. It takes five seconds to grab and fit to the back of standard rig shown in the second shot. Follow focus is thumb operated and all components shown are available cheaply on-line.

That's how it should be done but it becomes very impractible at a wedding because of it's size, the ea50 would require more wheight at the back because it's twice as long as a vg20.

Hi Guys

Has anyone successfully used a counter balance at the end of the shoulder pad ... I got a little disillusioned about how much weight is needed. I had some spare stedicam disc weights totalling 750g and hung those over the end of the bar on my shoulder pad so they dangled behind my back and seriously with the stock lens I can't see any huge advantage at all ..if someone lifts the weights off the end of the camera I cannot feel any balance difference at all ...there must be some but obviously 750g isn't enough to do anything to the balance ... I see the vocas weight is 1kg which is only 250g more than I have so that can't make a huge difference.

Maybe if the weight was extended 12" away from the shoulder pad it might be better but how much weight would you need to actually move the pivot point almost up to the pad itself???

Anyone tried different configurations and weights to get a really good balance??

Chris


I have the vocas with 1KG and it helps but only for 2-3 min quick takes , when I have to hold it longer then I believe that the good "old" $20 cawboy studio plastic fantastic is still the best : as for 1Kg being enough well.. it isn't, but the vocas must be used only for a quick take, nothing more. I had the vocas plate and weights for $40 but let me tell you .. if I had to pay more than 40 then... don't. The plastic fantastic is almost perfect if it wasn't that we are humans and we have this habit of breathing every once in a while .. :) ..

Thanks Guys

With the EA-50 it's probably just not practical, especially at weddings. The front ENG sprung support is actually a lot better as it doesn't add any weight to the whole rig but I only use it on long handhelds.

Funnily enough the main weight/balance was made a lot worse by the shoulder pad to EVF incorrect length! The camera is less stable and "wobbly" because the pad isn't sitting on your shoulder correctly and is too far forward! With the viewing tube mod in place, both eyecups now are 2" closer to the LCD so naturally you have to move the camera further back on your shoulder by 2" ..better seating and better balance as the fulcrum point (although still way forward) has moved back 2"

Chris

I like the chest pad that craig posted. How about this: again with the $20 plastic fantastic cowboy studio thing: remove the little top extension , put a macro rail on the camera and attach the rail to the base of the plastic fantastic. Now you can move the camera back and forth using the rail (I bought a $12 macro rail to use on tripods and works fine). and you can move it also wwhen on the bracket! The "breathing thing" is still a problem and that's why I'm going to try the chest pad. Just an idea. We are all trying to put the thing on our shoulders.. all of us LOL one by one . so far the plastic fantastic is definitely the system that gives me the best stability (I have to breath slowly.. z'all LOL)
even better system would be the belt pole , I have it, it's old stuff, it works but I don't use it because I don't want to become the joke of the day with that pole coming out of the front on my pants. So that's a no go for it. The rigs ala Frankenstein are not an option for me (also because I shoot on tripod 95% of the time -I shoot sports, mainly, some interviews with a monopod (old habit from the ex1 days). The ea50 is not heavy, try the cowboy thing with the macro rail, see how you like it. will cost nothing..worth a try.

Hi Anthony

I already have a rail system so I can use matte boxes if needed plus it supports my spring pole too. I don't care what people think! It really works a treat!! The EA-50 is already a no-rig camera and just by changing the viewfinder length so the pad sits further back makes all the difference in the world!! All I really need is a little back strain relief and the sprung pole does an amazing job so no counter-balance is needed!

I think the big issue was indeed the fact that the shoulder pad was never sitting on my shoulder so I was not only trying to keep the front end up but most of the back end too!! When I do Realty shoots inside a house I often need to go "one handed" so the rails/matte just drop off (it's a QR system) and the stock lens is exchanged for a Tokina 11-16 zoom so the camera is virtually balanced without too much front end weight, so I can hold it just on the strap so I can open doors etc etc with the other.

Chris

Chris,
I wasn't referring to the 15mm rails, but this macro slider from adorama for example
Flashpoint Single Focusing Rail Fine Control, for Macro Photography MF-RSS (http://www.adorama.com/MCFRSS.html?gclid=CKHarZLU-bwCFSXl7AodHiEAWA)

I have the flashpoint and also the ebay cheaper one : the flashpoint gives two mounts (1/4-20 and 3/8) and it's tighter , while the ebay one only gives a 1/4-20 mount and is less tight sliding it

this marco thing is small, fits nicely, barely noticeable and lets you move the camera with high precision: I use it to measure the counter balance on a fluid head on a tripod.

I have a question about the tokina : if you set 2.8 and 11mm do I need to worry about the focus of everything goes within the DOF , or I need to focus at 2/3rd of the field manually and leave it there?

Hi Anthony

I use the Tokina as a point and shoot for Realty all the time. I just set the focus ring to between 2' and 3' and everything is in focus and sharp at 11mm. The depth of field even at F2.8 is massive!!!

Chris

Chris,
thanks!
Oh my... that tokina is nothing less than spectacular! Just bought the Nikon version on craigslist (I have a Nikon still camera as well, and the adapter already.) It makes the ea50 some serious wide shooter.I'd suggest our stage broadcast friends used to make the studio spend thousands for a dedicate wide lens on stage robots , crane etc to take a look at this ea50 on tokina: the definition is superior to anything I've seen before. also the distortion is well over the current (poor) standards it's a 16-17mm wide at 2.8
Sony did everything they could to make this ea50 limited to amateurs , but this tokina fills up all the gaps by itself. Broadcast will only need an hdmi to sdi and here we go: finally beautiful wide shots on stage (finally): no more distortion and poor definition for our fav singers performing on TV.

well done, tokina , well done Chris for making this public. The guys at Sony's marketing are sprinting to find more limitations now. They don't like THAT.

LOL

:)

Hi Anthony

At weddings I do guest messages during pre-dinner drinks and they happen fast and furious. I used to use the stock lens and quite often the AF just wasn't fast enough!! With the Tokina I just preset focus and get in close so the shotgun mic gets nice audio and everything is sharp!!

A lens well worth considering too is the Tamron 17-50 F2.8 but you need the non VR version ...very sharp on the Nikons compared to my Nikon lens and awesome on the EA-50 ...it's a really nice lens and I use that often as well.

Chris

Chris,
exactly! The power of the tokina is in the focus and the fact that's sharp wide open. Like you said you set the focus on 2/3rd of the field and roll. If you take for example a footage of a recent show (Sanremo music festival in Italy) where one camera on a crane was the main camera with a definition way superior to the others (main Arri I believe, two huge canons on the sides) then compare to the footage out of a steady guy and a robot close to the stage you notice (immediately) a degradation (and nasty distortion) . This tokina makes the perfect wide. Nice, sharp, 2.8 . I am impressed. Why I didn't hear about this lens before? it's out for a while now... My fault, and thanks to you now I know :)

Hey CHris,

sorry for the late reply! I have 2 counter balance weights. All 2 were handmade.
The cilinder one is 1.2 kg and the other one is 2.1 kg.

When I have to switch between tripod and "handheld" (shoulder) I will use the 1.2 kg. That's easier to attach on the shoulder pad with just srewing it in. Also putting it in and out the tripod is easier with only this weight.

When I need no tripod I will use the 2.1 kg. this really helps to put the balance backwards. I think all shouldercams with a fixed (and less heavy lens) will be better balanced than the NEX-EA50.

See my pics. If you have questions, just ask.

BTW, my mattebox is now better with almost the lens in the middle! the metal screw on the bars is really tight now!

Thanks Tom!

Perfect photos and that 2.1 kg weight looks like it's part of the camera. The way I see it is that the lower you can have a weight, the lower your centre of balance will be so the cylinder weight would actually be less effective than the one that drops down. (even if they were the same mass!!) If I made one I think I would get an aluminium plate made (about 6mm thick) and the have a system where one could add plates on the "slopey" bit in say, 500g increments. That way you could reduce weight if you are using a lighter lens on the camera and the balance has changed.

Just for interest Tom , with the matte box, rails and your 2.1kg counter-weight, what is the overall weight of the compete rig??? I wonder if I would ever be able to handhold that ??

All your photo efforts are very much appreciated

Chris

Tom,

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your images for my blog where I have all useful info on the nex-ea50 combined, the blog has been non active for a while but I have been picking it up again, you can see it here: Accidental videographer | Stop looking, it's all here (http://accidentalvideographer.wordpress.com/)

Thanks Tom!

Perfect photos and that 2.1 kg weight looks like it's part of the camera. The way I see it is that the lower you can have a weight, the lower your centre of balance will be so the cylinder weight would actually be less effective than the one that drops down. (even if they were the same mass!!) If I made one I think I would get an aluminium plate made (about 6mm thick) and the have a system where one could add plates on the "slopey" bit in say, 500g increments. That way you could reduce weight if you are using a lighter lens on the camera and the balance has changed.

Just for interest Tom , with the matte box, rails and your 2.1kg counter-weight, what is the overall weight of the compete rig??? I wonder if I would ever be able to handhold that ??

All your photo efforts are very much appreciated

Chris

the complete rig with the 2.1 kg counter balance is about 4 kg. I can handhold this but not the whole time.

The cylinder weight looks "perfect" for handheld and switch to tripod. Within a few weeks I have to shoot a communion in a church and this will be a mix of handheld and tripod. So the cylinder weight will be useful for handheld and not too heavy for mounting on and off the tripod. With the 2.1 kg counter balance it's heavy and more difficult to use on my sachtler ace tripod.

Tom,

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your images for my blog where I have all useful info on the nex-ea50 combined, the blog has been non active for a while but I have been picking it up again, you can see it here: Accidental videographer | Stop looking, it's all here (http://accidentalvideographer.wordpress.com/)

No problem Noa!

the complete rig with the 2.1 kg counter balance is about 4 kg. I can handhold this but not the whole time.

Are you sure it's not closer to 5kg? I thought the ea50 only with viewfinder and a battery is close to 3kg (acc to sony's tech specs), then you need to add the 2kg counterwheight and your rails and mattebox which together should wheigh at least 500grams I guess?

I put it on a scale and that says 4 kg. It's not an electronic one. Maybe the scale is not right anymore.

If the scale says 4kg then it should be right, give or take a few 100gram if it's not a calibrated electronic one, I remember trying to make a shouldercamera out of my canon -xh-a1 with a "cb105" shoulder support, the total weight including light and my azden wireless receiver was 7kg, it did balance perfectly however on my shoulder at the expense of that extra weight. The same set up with my gh3, but other shouldermount is 2kg. :)

ah, found the image back, that was in 2009, look at that monster, ah those sweet memories :) Later I made a hoodloupe for the flip out lcd screen so I could use it as a "real" shoulder camera during run and gun interviews. After 5 minites that cb105 shouldermount really started to dig into my shoulders, not fun.

here it is

Ouch!! Noa

OK the EA-50 with the stock lens and a standard battery is 2.7kg so adding the 2.1 kg weight would make it 4.8kg ...At weddings I also have a light up front and a battery at the back so I figure at least 5kg for the whole rig all up. However the Camshade matte box and rail is exactly 1 kg so that makes a grand total of 6kg on your shoulder.

Now, a difficult question for you all. What would be easier on your back and shoulders ???

A 2.7kg bare essentials camera but still a little front heavy? Put on the matte box and rails and you now have an even heavier front end by almost another 1kg so all up is 3.7 kg plus the light and you are at 4kg.

That definitely in that form kills your back!!! You are fighting the front end I think???

Increase the camera weight to 6kg with all the extra weight on the rear end and you have a heavier rig but more balanced (according to Tom) so the burning questions still seems to be is : Which would be less tiring on your body? A front heavy 3kg camera or a better balanced 6kg camera.

Maybe Tom could do a trial for us??? Try holding the cam for say 10 minutes with the all up weight (6kg incl the counter balance) and then remove the counter balance and matte box and do another 10 minutes so you have a cam half the weight and see what the results are according to your muscles??

Even with just a matte box on the camera it feels awfully heavy and tiring for me BUT that might be simply because the extra weight is up front??

Any takers to do a test ???

Chris

The worst is every weight you put in front of you because I rather have 5 kg directly on my shoulders then 1 kg hanging on the front of my lens. That weight you need to hold in your hands and this puts a lot of strain on your shoulder, back and arms.

Thanks Noa

My thoughts exactly.

Now I have bought myself a length of 40mm x 20mm aluminium rectangular tube and I'll zap that onto the top side of the shoulder pad and then have a 45 degree angle going down behind my back. I don't have any mates that have a steel work shop so I decided to not make a solid bar but use ankle weights. I thought they had metal plates inside them but to make them flexible each pocket is filled with granules (I have no idea what yet but it's heavier than sand, that's for sure!! I might seal up the rectangular tube and fill the 45 degree section with what ever is in the bag and have that as my base weight, I was given some refills from the sports store and they are sealed plastic bags 150mm long and 50mm wide and each weigh 500g so that's 1.5kg already. Since I have spare aluminium I could always make a second tube to clip onto the first one so I can adjust for heavy/light lenses too.

Will keep you guys updated after some tests on weight etc etc tomorrow. I wonder how Tom decided on 2.1 kg??? or it that just what the weight came out as. I hung a 5lb dumbbell on the end of my pad and that seems awfully heavy if you don't have a matte box fitted!!

More later and maybe a few pics for your blog too!!

BTW: the mod to shorten the view tube is a must for your blog ...it's a different camera totally with the short viewing tube as the pad actually sits correctly on your shoulder!!

Chris

I just remembered about my first camera, a sony vx2100 where I had such a wideangle lens that you could attach to the front of the vx2100 lens, not sure what the weight was but I think it was close to 500 grams, eventhough the vx2100 is a very light camera just adding that wideanglelens on the front made it very difficult to handhold for extended periods which was no issue without it.

I found that if I drop lead fishing sinkers into the 40 x 20 aluminium tube to a height of 15cm (which will probably be the length of the actual angled bit) they will add 900g to the weight of the aluminium as well so with nothing on the counterbalance externally I can already get close to 1kg behind the camera and it's really easy and simple to do DIY as opposed to getting machine shops to cutting great chunks of steel plate!! With the Matte box off the camera I'm thinking that 1kg should be enough but I'll first try it in real life!

Yeah with a 1kg matte box on the camera with 90% of the weight out front the laws of physics and leverage really kick in and that 1kg starts to feel like an extra 5kg!!!

Chris

Still playing with counter balances !! I made a 40mm x 20mm aluminium box section that sits on the back of the shoulder pad and extends out 150mm then drops down at 45 degrees for another 150mm. I filled the box section with fishing sinkers and the whole piece weighs in at 1.1kg ... prior to putting it on I checked the centre of balance of the camera and it's just behind the tripod mount holes (You put the cam on a piece of pipe and move it back and forward until you reach an approximate spot where it's neither back nor front heavy.

Now if I screw on the counterbalance the centre of balance moves towards the back (as it should) and is roughly under the audio panel so it moves back about 100mm at best with the weight attached so the camera is still pretty front heavy. In theory of course, we want the centre of balance to be directly under the shoulder pad but unless the weight is a LOT heavier or better, it is moved further away from the shoulder pad, that won't happen. Putting 2kg directly over the top of the shoulder pad I feel won't move the centre of balance THAT much back and nearly doubles the camera weight BUT if you placed a weight of half that (say 1kg) something like 300mm behind the shoulder pad THEN leverage comes into play and the centre of balance will move almost back to the shoulder pad.

The issue is, how far back can one extend a weight?? You have to be practical and don't want something 500mm long behind your shoulder and the force exerted on the pad with a 1/2meter beam going back is going to put an awful amount of strain on the pad mount surely??? Tom has already pushed his weight to 2.1kg and Sony only recommend 1kg maximum on the mountings.

Still discovering!!

Chris

i did a support to fix a battery on the back for video light, and helps a bit as counter-weight.

it split in 2 parts to make easy to pack on the bag, it fixes on the shoulder pad, on the top of the camera (to reduce shoulder pad stress) and also put pressure on the top-back of the camera, to be very secure. the battery "slide and lock"

http://i.imgur.com/9Jh0wBD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LMU6KlK.jpg

That's neat Marlon!

I think the first to stack stuff behind the camera was Noa and then I just made a simple aluminium "T" section that screws on top of the shoulder pad and on my main EA-50, this has two plastic shoes for my two receivers. I made the same for the second EA-50 and that just has one plastic shoe at the end for my 3rd receiver and in front of that I pop riveted a stripped out Sony generic charger and ran a cable back to the camera cold shoe to power the light ...with the battery over the shoulder pad you don't get any extra front end weight and the camera is much better balanced. I actually had a quite heavy PowerLED light up front and when both lights were stolen from my car last Friday I replaced those with a really super-light 96 LED light so I have virtually no extra front weight now!

If you have to use on-camera lights then putting the battery behind is an essential move!!

Chris

my partner using today:

http://i.imgur.com/qOZxTzas.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/qOZxTza.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/PUy5OEas.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/PUy5OEa.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/P1yehqes.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/P1yehqe.jpg)

That looks very secure too!

According to Sony the shoulder pad can take gear up to 1kg but I know that Tom already uses a 2.1kg weight on the back of his camera attached to the pad so it's quite tough.

I noted that she shoots without the view tube .. I like the tube cos it gives me another contact point for stability ...You can see that without the viewing tube that the camera sits correctly on her shoulder exactly where it should be so if you use the tube at it's normal length the whole camera has to move forward..that's why I shortened my tube so the pad sits exactly on my shoulder.

That looks light an awesome light Marlon with the cooling fan on the back too! What make/model is that?

Chris

yeap, it's very secure. the top screw and the pressure pad near makes all the difference (there's a rubber on that to not scratch the camera). it actually make force up to release weight on the pad, so i can put about 3kg. its made from aluminum with a few coats of paint and protection paint to not scratch.

The light brand is "Marlon Martins DIY" and the model is "3.0". it's 4000 lumens, 40W ;D

http://i.imgur.com/jM0yJRFs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/jM0yJRF.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/rJNMG2js.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/rJNMG2j.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/kpc9gXIs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/kpc9gXI.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/NaYrSt5s.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/NaYrSt5.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/yGyFWgYs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/yGyFWgY.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/pMkeoiPs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/pMkeoiP.jpg)

about stability, yes, the eyepiece helps. i will make a "ear" support on the side, cause the camera "twist" easily.

Hi Marlon

Wow 9 x PowerLEDS!! Those look like 3W modules at least so that's some serious light ... You could almost make a room daylight with that. My biggest was 18W with 8 LED's but guests at weddings started to complain about it! I only use a 9W panel now and they seem to tolerate that!

What I have is a piece of square PVC pipe cut to size and it has Velcro on it and fits between the LCD side and the camera so it won't tilt inwards...works well for me! With the essential shortening mod on the viewing tube, the LCD doesn't try to fold in as much as the tube is shorter but it's still worth having a little block velcroed onto the camera body so it cannot fold at all.

Chris

they are 10W each. the are Cree XM-L T6, one of today's most efficient led (my goal was efficiency/power). running them in less then half power, i get more lumens per watt (could use only 4 to get the same 40W, but would generate more heat and less light)

Video showing it: Iluminador 3.0 - YouTube

as i normally use diffuser and/or a 6500k>3200k converter, the light get cut-down a lot, so its is powerful wen i need (in the party, i point it up, and i get a diffused light (lens create a circle with no spill). it also has 2 power levels.

yeap, a LCD mod like you did is essential if using eyepiece, you touch it it move inwards... grrrrrr... making fixed must help a lot...

today i did a "head support" cause its too easy to twist the camera (i found myself "bending" my head to support the cam)

it is fixed on the battery support. made with aluminum/plastic/neoprene/foam (soft on the ear)

http://i.imgur.com/RHPmSB6s.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/RHPmSB6.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/gNMhbjDs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/gNMhbjD.jpg) http://i.imgur.com/TWLBILcs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TWLBILc.jpg)

used the head support yesterday, DUDESSS, makes a lot of difference. mainly when changing controls with left hand, cause the hold> change setting>hold camera again>change setting>hold camera again caused shake. NOT ANYMORE.

highly recommended ;)

Hi Marlon

It's amazing how simple and quite small items can make a big difference to using the camera. That has worked out for you nicely!!

Chris

"In action":
http://i.imgur.com/DIJs87Ps.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/DIJs87P.jpg)

Looking for a base plate kit similar to Tom's for my matte box with 15mm rods. Anybody have a good inexpensive solution?

I bought this one (not in this shop because I live in Europe)

WONDLAN PL28 Big Base Plate at PhotoGear.com - Canada Discount Sources for Photography Accessories (http://www.photogear.com/p-330934-pl28-wondlan-pl28-big-base-plate)

cheap and good enough for me

Thank you, I will be looking into this... I live in the US and I will see if there is a US distributor... I will be grabbing that Camshade as well.

Hi Aaron

I know rails and the Camshade look really cool but please consider the fact that the Camshade and it's fittings alone (without the flags!!) will increase the front end weight of your camera by at least 1 kg!!!! (2.2 lbs)

I had both on my EA-50's and sold them as they made the camera simply too heavy to use. You will not believe you much more awkward your EA-50's will be with the rails and Camshade fitted. Especially on your shoulder ... I found them just too impractical to use on the camera when handheld. If your cam is always on a tripod then you have no issues but beware if you handhold ...it throws out the balance a LOT!!

Chris

Thanks Chris for the heads up. I do use mostly tripod shots when possible, but there are times where tripod is impractical and I have to go hand held. I'm quite a bigger guy than you so maybe I can get away with a little more front weight without a lot of stress, then again maybe not. I will try it and see. I have two cams currently and if it does not work for my EA50 then I will have some parts for my other cam. I'm also in the market for a third cam as well, so it will get used. Thanks again for the feedback.