Hi All,

I'm just entering into the world of Wedding Videography (at a friend's wedding to begin with). I have a GH3, an EM 5 and a Panasonic X800. My preferred shoot would be with two GH3s, but I don't see that happening in the near future, as I'd prefer to support my gear for now. I already have a Manfrotto Videopod and will be shooting largely with the GH3 for delivery of a 4 minute video. Although I do plan on multicamming the actual wedding ceremony. The bride is not interested in audio, and just wants the song by James Morrison, 'You Make it Real' over some great footage.

Therefore, I'd like to spend £1000 on a slider + tripod solution. I've identified the Cinevate Duzi Slider as my preferred slider, but would like advice with regards to what video tripod could go with the Duzi.

I like the Duzi for its size/performance and affordability, whilst it refrains from being poorly constructed.

I've looked at getting a Benro tripod with S6 head, as that seems to be widely regarded as one of the best heads with a set of sticks for under £500. I'm flirting with the idea of getting two of them, so I can be locked down for the ceremony, but would really like to keep in the Manfrotto family if people suggest that there's a good alternative.

My question is: Would the Cinevate Duzi Slider mount to an S6 head? And also, would anyone recommend a £500 tripod/head solution that would beat the Benro S6 set, which comes in at £244? I don't mind if it's £200 extra.

Thank you for your help, I look forward to embedding myself into this site!

Appreciate any and all support,

Kind regards,

Craig

I'm just entering into the world of Wedding Videography
The bride is not interested in audio

She might not be interested but all your future clients will, if you want my honest opinion, leave the slider for the time being and get a decent fluid head tripod and a basic set of audiogear. A slider, steradicam, crane and all that other fancy stuff you can still add later on but for weddings you need to get your basics right first.

You have got your cameraneeds covered, your x800 can serve as a locked down camera for static wide or tele shots, the em5 is perfect for those creative run and gun shots because of it's build in stabilizer, just get a Oly 25mm or 45mm 1.8 lens if you are on budget and you are all set for the bride prep shooting handheld or any other creative shallow dof shot that you need to take quickly.
the x800/gh3 combo will be great for any other situation you run into, depending on which other zoom lenses you have for your gh3, like running 2 camera's at the ceremony or when shooting speeches if you want 2 angles covered.

Your audio is your second most important investment, I use a yamaha c24 with a clipon mic for the groom and a zoom h1 is also a great little recorder, then you also need a zoom h4 or a tascam dr40 to get the audio feed from the dj which will dramatically improve your audio quality compared to just recording sound in front of a soundspeaker or even worse directly with the inbuild microphones from your camera.

Then your tripod is the 3rd most important investment, the fluid head tripods are more expensive but worth the investment, I have a sachtler ace which is considering what you get very low prized but can give you very smooth pans even at full tele on your camera.

That's all you need to start making compelling weddingvideos, multiple camera angles, clear sound and stable footage. I f you manage to get the focus and whitebalance right throughout your footage your brides won't miss any slider or steadicam moves. Those will enhance your footage but I believe it is not the first investment you should make.

Hi Craig,

Welcome to the forum.

Noa gave you some great advice there. While the Bride thinks she's not bothered about audio now, if you could deliver a film that actually has some audio from the vows and rings you could well end up getting a much more (positive) emotional response than a slider will ever get you. I'm not saying don't buy the slider / tripod, but audio kit is an absolute must.

Don't rely on "on-camera" audio in a church or even in a civil venue - especially if it's a manned camera with all the associated handling noise you'll get. On camera audio is generally junk with lots of noise picked up from all around instead of being able to isolate the Bride & Groom (and Vicar / Registrar). People can put up with a little shake here and there in the video, but bad audio will totally destroy a film.

So, a big +1 from me on getting some good audio during the ceremony and speeches if possible. You could even consider getting the Rode Smart Lav if you or the Groom has an iPhone. It could be the best £35 you even spend if you don't have other good audio solutions.

Even if you don't use audio for her film, you could use it later as your own practice material while you learn/practice to put together stories instead of just a sequence of shots strung together to the beat of some music. The difference in production value is huge.

I can't comment on the Benro system as I've never even seen one let alone used it.

As Noa said, the Sachtler Ace is a great tripod/head system for the price. There are others too, though at that price there's few to match the Ace in terms of the quality of heads etc. I don't own one myself, but if I were looking in that budget range I'd certainly be looking at it very hard.

We like the Velbon DV7000 legs with a manfrotto 501 head.

£100 for the Velbon and £150 for the head. The Velbon does come with a fluid head but it's no good for general usage. However, it makes a perfect head to go on top of your duzi.

We like the Velbon legs because they are 1kg lighter than the manfrotto equivalent, has a mid level spreader and can be cranked higher when needed. Was great one time to get my shots over the top of Brian Mays hair.

We like the Velbon DV7000 legs with a manfrotto 501 head.

£100 for the Velbon and £150 for the head. The Velbon does come with a fluid head but it's no good for general usage. However, it makes a perfect head to go on top of your duzi.

We like the Velbon legs because they are 1kg lighter than the manfrotto equivalent, has a mid level spreader and can be cranked higher when needed. Was great one time to get my shots over the top of Brian Mays hair.

LOL. I'd typed an entire paragraph on the Velbon DV-7000 legs (throw away the Velbon head) + Manfrotto head (we have 4 sets with 503HDV heads) but deleted as I thought it would not be seen as helpful. Glad you brought it up Danny :)

Before I got a slider, I'd make sure I had everything in my arsenal to get good audio. It's much more important than sliding shots, which are only eye candy and can't be used much in an actual video.

Also, personally I'd go with a solid tripod in the $500 range.

I got my first Bogen 3251/501 head combo 14 years ago for about $500 and it is still working fantastic to this day, having seen over 400 gigs. Pay for the quality up front and take care of your stuff and it will last a long time.

I just got a slider last year and while I do love the shots I can get with it, when doing solo, I never bring it because there is never time to set it up and get those shots during the day. Only use it on gigs where I have another person shooting, and even then, sometimes I don't.

Anyways, I'd emphasize getting audio (I use a combination of Senneheiser G3 system and also Tascam DR04 and DR05 in the venue to get music and speeches etc)

She might not be interested but all your future clients will, if you want my honest opinion, leave the slider for the time being and get a decent fluid head tripod and a basic set of audiogear. A slider, steradicam, crane and all that other fancy stuff you can still add later on but for weddings you need to get your basics right first.

You have got your cameraneeds covered, your x800 can serve as a locked down camera for static wide or tele shots, the em5 is perfect for those creative run and gun shots because of it's build in stabilizer, just get a Oly 25mm or 45mm 1.8 lens if you are on budget and you are all set for the bride prep shooting handheld or any other creative shallow dof shot that you need to take quickly.
the x800/gh3 combo will be great for any other situation you run into, depending on which other zoom lenses you have for your gh3, like running 2 camera's at the ceremony or when shooting speeches if you want 2 angles covered.

Your audio is your second most important investment, I use a yamaha c24 with a clipon mic for the groom and a zoom h1 is also a great little recorder, then you also need a zoom h4 or a tascam dr40 to get the audio feed from the dj which will dramatically improve your audio quality compared to just recording sound in front of a soundspeaker or even worse directly with the inbuild microphones from your camera.

Then your tripod is the 3rd most important investment, the fluid head tripods are more expensive but worth the investment, I have a sachtler ace which is considering what you get very low prized but can give you very smooth pans even at full tele on your camera.

That's all you need to start making compelling weddingvideos, multiple camera angles, clear sound and stable footage. I f you manage to get the focus and whitebalance right throughout your footage your brides won't miss any slider or steadicam moves. Those will enhance your footage but I believe it is not the first investment you should make.

Hi Noa,

Love your movies, thank you for commenting.

I agree totally. A little background about me: I'm a teacher, who lives at home and invests heavily in photographic equipment as a hobby. It's grown into a passion of mine, and I constantly spend all my free time learning on CreativeLive. Most recently, I've been through two workshops about Wedding Cinematography by Rob Adams and his wife Vanessa, as well as another by Ray Roman. Loved them both and feel that I've learnt a lot from watching them. As I live at home (with my parents), I've had the chance to travel and have fallen in love with photography. I started with a Canon 1000D about 8 years ago, and have progressed to owning the Micro Four Thirds kits, as well as the X800. I have the following lenses: Olympus 12 f2, Panasonic 25mm f1.4, Olympus 45mm f1.8 and the Olympus 75mm f1.8. I'm hoping my primes enable me to shoot in low light, which I know is a big help in Wedding Photography. I initially just decided to go the prime route for the supposed, better IQ. I'm looking for resources to learn film theory, as well as storytelling... so if you have any ideas, I'm all ears! There's one or two about filmmaking and storytelling on CreativeLive, so I'm thinking of getting those. I think I understand a bit of theory from the aforementioned training courses that I've watched, but definitely want to know as much as possible. I know that gear is only a small part of filmmaking, and I'll be editing using a MacBook Pro with Final Cut Pro X. I have both and have used Final Cut a reasonable amount to know my way around. My background (degree) is in Computer Science.

As I live at home, and fund what I hope to be my future career through my wages, I have the enviable position to know that my income is steady and I can invest without worry of having future clients. That said, in two years, I hope to make this something more. So please don't write me off as an enthusiast and stop helping me, I know that I'm an amateur to begin with, but have to start somewhere.

Given that I have no future clients as of right now, and the fact that she's stressed no microphones whatsoever in the wedding ceremony, I feel that a proposed slider would actually be something that she would appreciate, and something that would separate my footage and help with setting the scene. I'd also like to shoot the venue with a timelapse too. Anyways, I just figured that I could invest in audio after the wedding, but with the time running down now (April) and with only so much funds left, I just wanted to make the best buy for this, my only foreseeable wedding! After this summary, do you still think I'm stupid? It's okay if so!!! :)

I'm definitely with you on the decent tripod/fluid head though! I just looked up the Sachtler ACE and will definitely put that on my list to buy. Would this be lightyears ahead of the Benro with S6 head and any Manfrotto counterpart? Thank you for solving my tripod needs. Absolute headache.

I've looked into the Zoom H4n... I would definitely like to hook that up... I just don't know if the speeches will come through a mic and if I'll get a muddy feed? The Groom would like the speeches recorded... given the no mic policy of the bride, is the only way around this the H4n to hook into the board? Or is there a table alternative?

I am definitely going to strive to get the right exposures, white balance and focus points... that was one of the positives to invest in the GH3... love its button layout. The image quality is amazing too.

The only other question I have for you, is should I shoot 24p given that the EM-5 can't???

Thanks Noa!

Hi Craig,

Welcome to the forum.

Noa gave you some great advice there. While the Bride thinks she's not bothered about audio now, if you could deliver a film that actually has some audio from the vows and rings you could well end up getting a much more (positive) emotional response than a slider will ever get you. I'm not saying don't buy the slider / tripod, but audio kit is an absolute must.

Don't rely on "on-camera" audio in a church or even in a civil venue - especially if it's a manned camera with all the associated handling noise you'll get. On camera audio is generally junk with lots of noise picked up from all around instead of being able to isolate the Bride & Groom (and Vicar / Registrar). People can put up with a little shake here and there in the video, but bad audio will totally destroy a film.

So, a big +1 from me on getting some good audio during the ceremony and speeches if possible. You could even consider getting the Rode Smart Lav if you or the Groom has an iPhone. It could be the best £35 you even spend if you don't have other good audio solutions.

Even if you don't use audio for her film, you could use it later as your own practice material while you learn/practice to put together stories instead of just a sequence of shots strung together to the beat of some music. The difference in production value is huge.

I can't comment on the Benro system as I've never even seen one let alone used it.

As Noa said, the Sachtler Ace is a great tripod/head system for the price. There are others too, though at that price there's few to match the Ace in terms of the quality of heads etc. I don't own one myself, but if I were looking in that budget range I'd certainly be looking at it very hard.

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

I agree totally about audio... Rob Adams drilled it as much as he could in his training sessions. I know that audio would set this apart... but the Bride wishes for a video with "You Make it Real by James Morrison". They also have a band that's going to be playing there... this is like a £20k wedding I think... I really think she should be thinking about audio, but she's not interested and it's her wedding, so I'm happy and thankful that she wishes for me to shoot it and will aim to deliver what she wants as much as I can.

And yeah, I even showed them the Rodes! Shame.

Thanks for all your help Dave!

We like the Velbon DV7000 legs with a manfrotto 501 head.

£100 for the Velbon and £150 for the head. The Velbon does come with a fluid head but it's no good for general usage. However, it makes a perfect head to go on top of your duzi.

We like the Velbon legs because they are 1kg lighter than the manfrotto equivalent, has a mid level spreader and can be cranked higher when needed. Was great one time to get my shots over the top of Brian Mays hair.

Thanks for this Danny! Sounds like another one to consider... but would you consider the Sachtler over it if you could start out again now?

Thanks for your input.

Sounds like another one to consider... but would you consider the Sachtler over it if you could start out again now?

I'll let Danny answer as well, but for my part, I'll probably take the Sachter over the Velbon/Manfrotto head every time, subject to weight, portability, easy up/down etc and you're ability to get everything compatible from day 1. If you plan on using monopods then you're likely to be going with Manfrotto, so somewhere along the lines you'll have a camera with a Sachtler mounting plate and a monopod that only takes Manfrotto. Nightmare when you're in a hurry. Then you start getting in to what adapters you can buy to make everything compatible again.

The Manfrotto heads really don't last that long if you work them hard. If you're kind to them they will last longer. The Velbon legs have been good overall, for their price but I won't be buying more. With heavier cameras they can have a little bit of a twist and recoil at the end of pans. It's not there every time (not by a long way), and it's not very much, but it's something we're always aware of.

A tripod / head kit is something you really don't want to be buying again and again. Our next set of sticks/head are likely to be Miller, but not for weddings, there's too much running about.

When I'm in a hurry EVERYTHING needs to match. All the cameras have the same quick release plate on so any camera can go on any tripod / slider / monopod etc. I lost count of the number of times I'd have the wrong camera / head combo and have to go find another piece of kit.

this is like a £20k wedding I think...

It's really not hard to spent £20K on a wedding and up to a couple of years ago many people were doing just that. Since the recession we've noticed budgets have come down quite a bit.

Remember, your bride is spending £20K and still didn't have a video booked. Most people don't.

When you consider how much Rob charges, they'll need to be spending a lot more than £20K before they even consider Rob's kind of budget. So, while Creative Live is interesting (I've watched a few too), realise that's not where the vast majority of brides and weddings are in the UK. Creative Live definitely caters to the higher end USA market place.

If you were hoping for $10K (video fee) per wedding in Liverpool then the jobs are going to be few and far between, so it's important to get expectations right. In the UK there's always the guy down the street offering all day for £500 ;)

Get decent kit to start with so you only have to buy once.

Sorry, I've got to run to a job - back later.....;)

Sorry, I've got to run to a job - back later.....;)

And I have just got back from one :) Been shooting a school's play on a stage with my lovely sony cx730's and used the sachtler ace for the first time in a challenging environment, was standing way back so had to zoom in completely to get a decent close up of the action on the floor, my second tripod, one that has a manfrotto 501hdv head was for the locked of wide shot.

Would this be lightyears ahead of the Benro with S6 head and any Manfrotto counterpart?
I can't speak for any other tripod as the manfrotto 501hdv was my first "serious" tripod and has served me very well over the years but the Sachtler is way better, I was able to make some very smooth pans with the cx730 zoomed in completely, would have been much more difficult with the 501hdv head. It also has several adjustments in friction for pan and tilt movements.

Originally I was planning to get a Miller ds10 or ds20 but both where twice the price, I"m sure they are better but not twice as good.

I just don't know if the speeches will come through a mic and if I'll get a muddy feed?
I use a Tascam dr40 to get my sound from the dj's mixer, has always been much better then the onboard mike, used it also today to capture the sound at the school's play and that quality is very good, I have a 10 meter xlr cable that I use to get the DR40 to where I"m standing so I can monitor teh sound with my headphones and watch the levels on the recorder as well. Incase I"m not able to get a clear signal I just tape my Yamaha c24 onto the microphone with some velcrotape.

I also got a tascam dr100 which should be able to send sound directly into a camera that has no xlr so I don't have to sync in post anymore, I only need to find some time to test it before it's put to use.

There are many other option to capture your audio and I"m sure others will chime in as well with suggestions, for me the yamaha c24, the zoom h1 and the tascam dr40 are a good combo for most my audio needs during a wedding.

I have the following lenses...
You have the same lenses I have, except for the 45mm, I use the 75mm to get headshots at a reception, the 25mm for my artsy fartsy shots, the 12mm for my steadicam and a 12-35mm f2.8 for general run and gun, as much as you might love primes, you need to get a fast zoomlens as well, with primes the frame you are after dictates the position from the object you are shooting, that's ok for controlled shoots but at wedding you need something with a zoomrange as you will be moving around and won't be able to stand where you like.

should I shoot 24p given that the EM-5 can't

As you are in pal land using 30p mixed with 25 or 50p from your gh3 might cause issues, most mentioned is that the shutterspeed would cause issues with lights that could flicker but since you can adjust that I first would need to see how that works out in real life, there has been discussions here that a Premiere can easily mix and match framerates but what I have seen as a result in a demo was visible stuttering on pan movements, not the kind of stuttering you would get when you shoot 25p and pan too fast but it looked like missing frames to me.

My concern would be how audio from 30p camera in a 25p project would sound like if you try to sync it with a external recorder, just recently I remembered I could test myself as I have a sony rx10 which is pal/ntsc switchable so I"m going to run some shooting and editing tests to see if it can be matched easily, if that is the case the Olympus em1 might be next on my list, I"d love to just slap on the 75mm f1.8 and shoot handheld without any jitter in the image. I had a look at the gh4 where 4k could be beneficial in cropping in post but I"m going to wait a few months to see how it performs, currently I have sufficient gear to get through another year of weddings. :)

First, you need to be shooting all the same frame rates on all cameras. If you don't you could have a real problem mixing audio and even some multi cam shots unless you're going to chop it up manually and I guarantee you'll see some quality drop if you start mixing different frame rates on the same timeline. Given the excellent multi cam features in FCPX it would be a shames not to use it. Naturally, you'll take the time to test all this before the day ;)

I don't see any reason to shoot 24p in the UK. Set everything to 25p or 50p.

Don't rely on a feed from the mic/house/DJ. If you can get it, great, but even then if could be too weak, over driven (distorted) or just sound plain crap. Make sure you have headphones ready to listen to the feed as soon as the speeches get underway if at all possible. If you get a good feed, smile, your life will be much easier. If you're relying on it and it doesn't work out then you're screwed. Also, when editing a feed, make sure you add some ambient sound so when they say something witty you can also hear the audience reactions.

We've been to venues that have a great feeds one time and bad the next, venues that don't ever have a feed (which usually makes it easier in my book), venues that 'did' and now don't etc. We've had feeds that were perfect at the start then suddenly cut off when some bright spark played with the mixer during the speech, or it's gone quiet without reason, or the volume increased to overload, or the venue's mic cut out and they decided to shout instead. Not everyone will use the mic that the venue provided either. You just can't "rely" on anything from the house/DJ feed. Always always always have a plan B & C for audio.

Worst case, get a recorder on a light stand pointed at one of the loud speakers and naturally, make sure it's not overloading AND that it's actually recording (double & triple check this, I'm not kidding!).

Cheapish table top mics/recorders that are good are the Zoom H1. You can get a couple of those for the price of one H4n, though you won't get the XLR or 1/4" inputs. We have a couple of H4n units, a couple of H1, a Tascam DR-60D and of course lots of XLRs inputs to our cameras that get wireless feeds from our Sennheiser kits, usually placed on the table in front of the people speaking if we don't directly mic them (which we prefer to do). If you decide to go the wireless route make sure you have a backup plan (e.g. the H1) in case the wireless fails.

Also, make sure the best man/men isn't/aren't going to walk about or go to another place in the room to make their speech, i.e. to a computer to run a slide show. If they do (and it can happen without warning if you didn't see them setting it up before hand) you'll need to be able to capture their sound in that location instead. Of course, don't forget to film the slide show in case you can't get the original copy.

Not too long ago we had a situation where there were 6 (six!) best men spread around the room each chipping in a few sentences here and there,seemingly randomly, for what turned out to be more than an hour of speech. That was a tough one to cover for both audio and video. Not knowing who was going to speak next drove me nuts!

Alternatively, coming back to a more standard audio setup, if you're on a budget, a Shure SM58 mic (£70 each?) feeding the inputs on a single H4n from one end of a top table (best man) with the H4n built in mics capturing the middle (father and groom) can work well. If you go this route don't forget some gaffers tape to secure the cable so no one trips up and sues you.

Oh, and that brings up the point about insurance. You do have public liability insurance right? You may get away without it if you're doing it for free and can claim to be a "guest", but if you're not then the venue will consider you a contractor and may want to see your insurance certificate before letting you film!

Sorry, this got a bit sidetracked from your tripod question, but others could be reading this who are just starting out too.....

So, back on topic, have you considered attending BVE on the 25th - 27th in London? Lots of companies going to be there but not sure how it works out with school time...

Craig, funny you ask that question. As we've just launched a new studio which inherited a lot of our gear, we had the chance to buy our dream kit. New slider, zoom h6 and for the tripods... More velbon and manfrottos. The new 502 this time.

We're totally happy with the stability and as I said, lighter than a set of manfrotto legs. Unless you go for carbon which is then crazy expensive. I've tried a lot of tripods and I keep coming back to the cheap and cheerful velbon. The crank is also soooo useful.

I'll let Danny answer as well, but for my part, I'll probably take the Sachter over the Velbon/Manfrotto head every time, subject to weight, portability, easy up/down etc and you're ability to get everything compatible from day 1. If you plan on using monopods then you're likely to be going with Manfrotto, so somewhere along the lines you'll have a camera with a Sachtler mounting plate and a monopod that only takes Manfrotto. Nightmare when you're in a hurry. Then you start getting in to what adapters you can buy to make everything compatible again.

The Manfrotto heads really don't last that long if you work them hard. If you're kind to them they will last longer. The Velbon legs have been good overall, for their price but I won't be buying more. With heavier cameras they can have a little bit of a twist and recoil at the end of pans. It's not there every time (not by a long way), and it's not very much, but it's something we're always aware of.

A tripod / head kit is something you really don't want to be buying again and again. Our next set of sticks/head are likely to be Miller, but not for weddings, there's too much running about.

When I'm in a hurry EVERYTHING needs to match. All the cameras have the same quick release plate on so any camera can go on any tripod / slider / monopod etc. I lost count of the number of times I'd have the wrong camera / head combo and have to go find another piece of kit.

Ugh. So is there a Manfrotto to Sachter adaptor, or vice versa? Which way round would you recommend?

So will the Sachter legs/head outlast the Manfrotto by some way?

That does sound like a nightmare. I'll definitely sort that out eventually. I'd like to be shooting with 3 GH3s if I do a good job and decide to pursue this. But for the time being, I'm going to use the EM 5 + X800 with the GH3 as the main.

It's really not hard to spent £20K on a wedding and up to a couple of years ago many people were doing just that. Since the recession we've noticed budgets have come down quite a bit.

Remember, your bride is spending £20K and still didn't have a video booked. Most people don't.

When you consider how much Rob charges, they'll need to be spending a lot more than £20K before they even consider Rob's kind of budget. So, while Creative Live is interesting (I've watched a few too), realise that's not where the vast majority of brides and weddings are in the UK. Creative Live definitely caters to the higher end USA market place.

If you were hoping for $10K (video fee) per wedding in Liverpool then the jobs are going to be few and far between, so it's important to get expectations right. In the UK there's always the guy down the street offering all day for £500 ;)

Get decent kit to start with so you only have to buy once.

Sorry, I've got to run to a job - back later.....;)

Very true. I guess I just see £20K as a massive amount and want to do their memories of the day as well as I can.

Yeah... By the way, how does the guy down the street make a living with charging £500??? Truly baffles me when you consider journey time, equipment etc.

And I have just got back from one :) Been shooting a school's play on a stage with my lovely sony cx730's and used the sachtler ace for the first time in a challenging environment, was standing way back so had to zoom in completely to get a decent close up of the action on the floor, my second tripod, one that has a manfrotto 501hdv head was for the locked of wide shot.

I can't speak for any other tripod as the manfrotto 501hdv was my first "serious" tripod and has served me very well over the years but the Sachtler is way better, I was able to make some very smooth pans with the cx730 zoomed in completely, would have been much more difficult with the 501hdv head. It also has several adjustments in friction for pan and tilt movements.

Originally I was planning to get a Miller ds10 or ds20 but both where twice the price, I"m sure they are better but not twice as good.

I use a Tascam dr40 to get my sound from the dj's mixer, has always been much better then the onboard mike, used it also today to capture the sound at the school's play and that quality is very good, I have a 10 meter xlr cable that I use to get the DR40 to where I"m standing so I can monitor teh sound with my headphones and watch the levels on the recorder as well. Incase I"m not able to get a clear signal I just tape my Yamaha c24 onto the microphone with some velcrotape.

I also got a tascam dr100 which should be able to send sound directly into a camera that has no xlr so I don't have to sync in post anymore, I only need to find some time to test it before it's put to use.

There are many other option to capture your audio and I"m sure others will chime in as well with suggestions, for me the yamaha c24, the zoom h1 and the tascam dr40 are a good combo for most my audio needs during a wedding.

You have the same lenses I have, except for the 45mm, I use the 75mm to get headshots at a reception, the 25mm for my artsy fartsy shots, the 12mm for my steadicam and a 12-35mm f2.8 for general run and gun, as much as you might love primes, you need to get a fast zoomlens as well, with primes the frame you are after dictates the position from the object you are shooting, that's ok for controlled shoots but at wedding you need something with a zoomrange as you will be moving around and won't be able to stand where you like.

As you are in pal land using 30p mixed with 25 or 50p from your gh3 might cause issues, most mentioned is that the shutterspeed would cause issues with lights that could flicker but since you can adjust that I first would need to see how that works out in real life, there has been discussions here that a Premiere can easily mix and match framerates but what I have seen as a result in a demo was visible stuttering on pan movements, not the kind of stuttering you would get when you shoot 25p and pan too fast but it looked like missing frames to me.

My concern would be how audio from 30p camera in a 25p project would sound like if you try to sync it with a external recorder, just recently I remembered I could test myself as I have a sony rx10 which is pal/ntsc switchable so I"m going to run some shooting and editing tests to see if it can be matched easily, if that is the case the Olympus em1 might be next on my list, I"d love to just slap on the 75mm f1.8 and shoot handheld without any jitter in the image. I had a look at the gh4 where 4k could be beneficial in cropping in post but I"m going to wait a few months to see how it performs, currently I have sufficient gear to get through another year of weddings. :)

Sachtler sounds amazing, thanks for the recommendation. Glad it served you well.

Thanks for all the recorder nominations, I'll definitely take a look.

Is 2.8 fast enough? Or do you have your own lighting? Out of interest, what ISO will you take your GH3 up to? Don't know if i can afford a 12-35 for this wedding... Doubt the 12-50 Oly will serve me well either? :/

Sounds good, the EM 1 does look amazing... I would wait for 4k as well considering that would cripple most editing setup right now, even though cropping to 1080 sounds great.

How are the Olympus codecs for video? And with my set up (X800, EM 5 & GH3) should I shoot 30p on all (if that's even possible, I'm away on a course & can't check), or given that there will be no audio, should I chance 24 as I will mainly use GH3 for most, except for the ceremony?

First, you need to be shooting all the same frame rates on all cameras. If you don't you could have a real problem mixing audio and even some multi cam shots unless you're going to chop it up manually and I guarantee you'll see some quality drop if you start mixing different frame rates on the same timeline. Given the excellent multi cam features in FCPX it would be a shames not to use it. Naturally, you'll take the time to test all this before the day ;)

I don't see any reason to shoot 24p in the UK. Set everything to 25p or 50p.

Don't rely on a feed from the mic/house/DJ. If you can get it, great, but even then if could be too weak, over driven (distorted) or just sound plain crap. Make sure you have headphones ready to listen to the feed as soon as the speeches get underway if at all possible. If you get a good feed, smile, your life will be much easier. If you're relying on it and it doesn't work out then you're screwed. Also, when editing a feed, make sure you add some ambient sound so when they say something witty you can also hear the audience reactions.

We've been to venues that have a great feeds one time and bad the next, venues that don't ever have a feed (which usually makes it easier in my book), venues that 'did' and now don't etc. We've had feeds that were perfect at the start then suddenly cut off when some bright spark played with the mixer during the speech, or it's gone quiet without reason, or the volume increased to overload, or the venue's mic cut out and they decided to shout instead. Not everyone will use the mic that the venue provided either. You just can't "rely" on anything from the house/DJ feed. Always always always have a plan B & C for audio.

Worst case, get a recorder on a light stand pointed at one of the loud speakers and naturally, make sure it's not overloading AND that it's actually recording (double & triple check this, I'm not kidding!).

Cheapish table top mics/recorders that are good are the Zoom H1. You can get a couple of those for the price of one H4n, though you won't get the XLR or 1/4" inputs. We have a couple of H4n units, a couple of H1, a Tascam DR-60D and of course lots of XLRs inputs to our cameras that get wireless feeds from our Sennheiser kits, usually placed on the table in front of the people speaking if we don't directly mic them (which we prefer to do). If you decide to go the wireless route make sure you have a backup plan (e.g. the H1) in case the wireless fails.

Also, make sure the best man/men isn't/aren't going to walk about or go to another place in the room to make their speech, i.e. to a computer to run a slide show. If they do (and it can happen without warning if you didn't see them setting it up before hand) you'll need to be able to capture their sound in that location instead. Of course, don't forget to film the slide show in case you can't get the original copy.

Not too long ago we had a situation where there were 6 (six!) best men spread around the room each chipping in a few sentences here and there,seemingly randomly, for what turned out to be more than an hour of speech. That was a tough one to cover for both audio and video. Not knowing who was going to speak next drove me nuts!

Alternatively, coming back to a more standard audio setup, if you're on a budget, a Shure SM58 mic (£70 each?) feeding the inputs on a single H4n from one end of a top table (best man) with the H4n built in mics capturing the middle (father and groom) can work well. If you go this route don't forget some gaffers tape to secure the cable so no one trips up and sues you.

Oh, and that brings up the point about insurance. You do have public liability insurance right? You may get away without it if you're doing it for free and can claim to be a "guest", but if you're not then the venue will consider you a contractor and may want to see your insurance certificate before letting you film!

Sorry, this got a bit sidetracked from your tripod question, but others could be reading this who are just starting out too.....

So, back on topic, have you considered attending BVE on the 25th - 27th in London? Lots of companies going to be there but not sure how it works out with school time...

Naturally :) I am shooting my niece's christening as a practice, a week earlier. Should be good to have a tinker. Although Parallels seems to be a good programme for syncing shots too?

Do GH3s even shoot 25p? I might be able to do 50 on all... Love the look of 24p though!!! :( lol.

Thanks for the tips with the audio. A lot to consider there, and a while before my audio kit matches yours. How do you get the presentations? Do you mean if they're videos, or saving the PPT/Keynote for example? I'll be sure to record it, thanks.

That's insane @ the 6.... :/ Don't envy you there.

Thanks for the standard setup, I'll check that out.

Ahhhh :/ well, I am doing it for free, do you think I should get insurance? Is it possible to get insured for the day?

I hadn't considered it, but checked the dates and I'm teaching then. What will the conference cover? Sounds interesting!

@Danny (can't quote you for some reason), thanks for your tips... I'll check out the Velbron, butt he Sachtler sounds good too. Glad you've got your best kit now! And thanks to everyone for your help!

Ugh. So is there a Manfrotto to Sachter adaptor, or vice versa? Which way round would you recommend?

You can buy Manfrotto quick release (QR) plate bases that you'd screw to the Sachtler QR plate. I've used these for my other gear, e.g. telepromter, to make it easier to mount a camera quickly.

Example: 577 Rapid Connect Adapter w Sliding Mounting Plate 501PL for Manfrotto HEAD HDV | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/577-Rapid-Connect-Adapter-w-Sliding-Mounting-Plate-501PL-for-Manfrotto-HEAD-HDV-/171071469284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d4a776e4)

By the way, how does the guy down the street make a living with charging £500??? Truly baffles me when you consider journey time, equipment etc.

Generally they don't. There's an amazing number of people about who come and go but are doing this on the side for fun and never make it to full time status (absolutely nothing wrong with doing it part time, as long as you're giving a great service).

They typically spend just a few hundred on consumer gear and think "I'll do a couple of weddings for £500 and it will pay for all the gear, then if I do another one it's all profit". They don't get insurance, they don't pay the music royalties, don't count the travel costs, they don't count their time properly, they just see pound notes and think it's awesome.

Unfortunately most of the time their videos pretty much match the price but it really screws with the local market for those that 'are' full time or those who are doing it part time but still offer a great service and a great product. OTOH, they are perhaps servicing a segment of the market that simply doesn't care about quality and just want a cheap video ;)

Naturally :) I am shooting my niece's christening as a practice, a week earlier. Should be good to have a tinker. Although Parallels seems to be a good programme for syncing shots too?

You don't have to wait for the live event to practice the multi cam stuff. Set all your cameras up in your garden, park, road, anywhere really. Get them all running, all recording audio then import them and see how well they sync.

Haven't used parallels for sync. I've used PluralEyes with FCP7 and Premiere Pro but now I use FCPX's own internal sync and it's worked about 99.999% of the time perfectly well and doesn't have the side effects of creating ghost files/sequences within the app like PluralEyes did.

There's a definite knack to FCPX sync, and the very first thing to do is name your camera angles (in the info panel) for each clip (you can do all from the same camera in a single operation). Once you've done that the sync just works. If you don't do that then it's all up for grabs. Once you have them sync'd (as a multi cam) editing the multiple angles is trivial. If you haven't done it before check out the plethora of free videos on YouTube or get the training from Ripple.com or LarryJordan.com or one or two others out there. It will save you hours of just mousing around and not being sure what's going on.

Do GH3s even shoot 25p?

Now I"m confused, you live in PAL land and you have a gh3 and you are asking if it shoots 25p?

How are the Olympus codecs for video?

Same here, you have a em5 and you are asking me how their codecs are? I don't own a Olympus so wouldn't now. :)


Is 2.8 fast enough? Or do you have your own lighting? Out of interest, what ISO will you take your GH3 up to?

I use 3200 iso a lot at darker receptions and 6400 if I really need to. 6400 iso still looks better then what 3200 iso did look like on my 550d.

f2.8 is fast enough for most situations but it can be a problem incase of a candlelit venue. the 12-50 Oly would be a better/cheaper solution for you since you have a Olympus em5 so you don't need to pay the high premium prize for a stabilized lens.

And with my set up (X800, EM 5 & GH3) should I shoot 30p on all (if that's even possible, I'm away on a course & can't check)

If you live in pal land you shouldn't, shoot 25 or 50p, mix in the 30p from your em5 in a 25 or 50p project.

You can buy Manfrotto quick release (QR) plate bases that you'd screw to the Sachtler QR plate. I've used these for my other gear, e.g. telepromter, to make it easier to mount a camera quickly.

Example: 577 Rapid Connect Adapter w Sliding Mounting Plate 501PL for Manfrotto HEAD HDV | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/577-Rapid-Connect-Adapter-w-Sliding-Mounting-Plate-501PL-for-Manfrotto-HEAD-HDV-/171071469284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d4a776e4)

Generally they don't. There's an amazing number of people about who come and go but are doing this on the side for fun and never make it to full time status (absolutely nothing wrong with doing it part time, as long as you're giving a great service).

They typically spend just a few hundred on consumer gear and think "I'll do a couple of weddings for £500 and it will pay for all the gear, then if I do another one it's all profit". They don't get insurance, they don't pay the music royalties, don't count the travel costs, they don't count their time properly, they just see pound notes and think it's awesome.

Unfortunately most of the time their videos pretty much match the price but it really screws with the local market for those that 'are' full time or those who are doing it part time but still offer a great service and a great product. OTOH, they are perhaps servicing a segment of the market that simply doesn't care about quality and just want a cheap video ;)

You don't have to wait for the live event to practice the multi cam stuff. Set all your cameras up in your garden, park, road, anywhere really. Get them all running, all recording audio then import them and see how well they sync.

Haven't used parallels for sync. I've used PluralEyes with FCP7 and Premiere Pro but now I use FCPX's own internal sync and it's worked about 99.999% of the time perfectly well and doesn't have the side effects of creating ghost files/sequences within the app like PluralEyes did.

There's a definite knack to FCPX sync, and the very first thing to do is name your camera angles (in the info panel) for each clip (you can do all from the same camera in a single operation). Once you've done that the sync just works. If you don't do that then it's all up for grabs. Once you have them sync'd (as a multi cam) editing the multiple angles is trivial. If you haven't done it before check out the plethora of free videos on YouTube or get the training from Ripple.com or LarryJordan.com or one or two others out there. It will save you hours of just mousing around and not being sure what's going on.

Thanks for that link!!

Insane with the £500 crew. I'm hoping to provide a decent video to this couple, I recommended that they get a pro, but they said they don't want to pay anything at all, as the budget is already spent. So I agreed, a bit reluctantly, but also a bit excitedly. I've always wanted to have a go!

Do pros charge £1000 per wedding minimum? That's the only way I can see anyone making any money.

I'll do the garden thing then! Record myself doing keepy ups!

That's great, I'll try the internal sync too then! PluralEyes looked really simple to use too though with FCP X, and the XML.

That's fab, I have the training by Larry Jordan. Bought it the summer before last, and I'm sure it has the multiple cam edit. I'll check when I get back on Sunday. Cheers. Larry's jokes need some work, but otherwise he's great! He's the first person I checked out.


Now I"m confused, you live in PAL land and you have a gh3 and you are asking if it shoots 25p?

Same here, you have a em5 and you are asking me how their codecs are? I don't own a Olympus so wouldn't now. :)

I use 3200 iso a lot at darker receptions and 6400 if I really need to. 6400 iso still looks better then what 3200 iso did look like on my 550d.

f2.8 is fast enough for most situations but it can be a problem incase of a candlelit venue. the 12-50 Oly would be a better/cheaper solution for you since you have a Olympus em5 so you don't need to pay the high premium prize for a stabilized lens.

If you live in pal land you shouldn't, shoot 25 or 50p, mix in the 30p from your em5 in a 25 or 50p project.


Yes, sorry. GH3 wasn't close by to check, and I've not had it long. I set it to 24p and just did a few videos around the house and at friends'. I've since checked and it does. Along with 50p.

My apologies! I thought you also had an EM 5! My EM 5 is in England, and I'm currently in France, so I can't check, but I'll google and see! I just view you both as video Gods and think you know everything :)

Ok cool. I'll go to 3200 then as well and stick with the 12-50. This venue has candles, but as yet I'm unsure if it is the only lighting. My problem is that they've spent quite a bit on the photographers, so although I want to do a great job, I don't want to come in and have an effect on the lighting. Similarly with the preps, I'd love to have the bride being prepared with great natural light pouring in from the windows, but I think I'll end up following the photographers lead... Is this a legitimate worry and do you think I'm correct to do this given the circumstances and my experience?

Thanks!

I am shooting my niece's christening as a practice, a week earlier. Should be good to have a tinker.

Don't underestimate how demanding christenings can be.

For starters it is common for more than one child to be baptised during the same ceremony. However much your inlaws might be pleased to have a video record you can be sure you will be viewed as an unwelcome intrusion by the other families. Add to that you may be in competition with pro photographers or photo enthusiasts for the best shooting positions - or they may simply block your view either intentionally or by accident. You'll still have relations taking photos even if there is only one child.

You will also have to contend with venue rules as regards when you can shoot, what you can shhot, and where you can shoot from. These can be surprisingly restrictive.

If there are no other babies to be christened and if there are no restrictive rules, you will still need to cope with low ambient light and with parents and god parents huddling together almost like a rugby scrum with no faces or baby visible to you on the outside of the group. I recommend that you try to ensure the parents god parents and priest are somewhat camera-aware so that you get a decent field of view as far as possible, especially when they are gathered at the font. Also check out whether there will be any readings and if so who by and where from.

Try to get a hidden audio recorder such as a Zoom H1 close to where reading are to be made from. Also try to get a lav and recorder onto the father especially if he will be close to the action for most of the time. You may be able to get one on the priest as well but they may well say no. Don't rely on a feed from any church deck because even if its set up and working OK the priest may not switch his house lav on for something as intimate as a christening.

Some churches are all geared up for it and even have their own wide-angle cams which can enable overseas relations to watch in real time. Others can be quite obstructive playing their "video and photography break the sanctity of the ceremony" card.

I don't think I've got any christening videos online at present but here are a couple of photo galleries that may help you anticipate what to expect:

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers videographers london brompton oratory photography video carlos ashton lamont photo galleries (http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/london-christening-baptism-photographers-brompton-oratory-731-mbm.html)

christening baptism naming ceremony photographers videographers london st andrews cathedral kentish town photography video filippos ashton lamont photo galleries (http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/london-christening-baptism-photographers-716-kltf.html)

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers videographers london st sophia's cathedral bayswater photography video stephanos ashton lamont photo galleries (http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/london-baptism-christening-photographers-617-njns.html)

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers london oratory brompton photography henry ashton lamont photo galleries (http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/brompton-oratory-baptism-photographers-509-hpw.html)

Be aware of the rules regarding use of commercial music especially if any of your work is to go online.

Pete

Thanks Pete. Those links are useful! Thanks for the tips too... It's mostly my bro doing a favour to let me video the ceremony. But he will want some pictures, which I have no problem with taking.

Should be good to set up the cameras and shoot static whilst I hover with my OM-D. If I do the garden shoot for multi-cam that might even be enough practice, and then I'll do a better job of the photos.

Thanks to everyone for your replies, I'm going to get the Sachtler, and then decide between a duzi or a second Sachtler. I'll see. Thanks again and I'll continue to enjoy your craft.

I may be back with more questions.... Hopefully you'll still be able to assist me, and I'll definitely be back with my video too!

[b]As a final question, do you storyboard before the wedding, and if so, where did you learn to do so? Any top tips for the day that an amateur may overlook in terms of basic videography (angles and lighting in particular). And I'm shooting the video to James Morrison's You Make it Real... The video will be the length of the song... Any ideas??? I realise this is a copyright breach? But it's just for their use and I'm not getting paid, so I assume it's ok to use? [\b]

Thanks again!

As a final question, do you storyboard before the wedding

If you are new to weddings THE most important part is to get the basics right, that's good focus, whitebalance, exposure and sound, It also means that you shoot every little detail and you let your camera's roll continuously during all important events even if you think it might not be necessary. Also know your gear inside out and blindfolded. Once you are comfortable with that you can move further on to sliders, steadicam, cranes, timelapse or whatever can enhance your videoproduction.

Weddings are not cimema, which means you have very little to no control of what is going on, it's a documentary on the battlefield and you either get the shot or be shot. There is no storyboarding to be done, you get a planning from the couple and that is your storyboard, a timetable with a list of events that occur during the day.

If you are lucky you get a beautiful looking (sort of brad pitt/angelina jolie look-a-likes) rich couple that marries at a awesome location, the groom plays some golf, his favorite hobby, in the morning on the golf playground that's located outside the venue, the bride prepares in a spacious room that's flooded with natural light and they get married at the beach on a windstill cloudless sunny and warm day, their friends have so many meaningful stories to tell at the ceremony and again at the reception, the bride cries when she hears his vows and the groom cries when he sees he bride for the first time in a white dress and the friends cry when they hear all these heartwarming stories, the dj supplies you with an excellent feed so your sound is topnotch and every speaker knows that a microphone is not supposed to be held at waistheight, in the venue they flood the dancefloor with white high quality led lights that don't flicker and maybe if you are really lucky, there is no photog around to block any of your camera's.

This will enable you to edit in a way that will get you close to what many refer to as a "cinema" and a "story", you get the verbal base to carry your visuals, which ofcourse are stunning as well unless you mess them up by not having your basics right.

If you are not lucky you get non of the above, which are the kind of weddings I do now and then and even tough it may appear I have nothing to work with I can assure you I do whatever I can to get my basics right, because if I do, I will always have a happy client.

I don't want to sound patronizing but it's just some good advise from someone who has learned the hard way when he started out, as a solo shooter a good preparation is key to everything you do during the day and you need backup for every single piece of equipment you use, a slider motion or a steadicammove is worthless if you messed up the audio recordings or if your footage is out of focus or worse, that you missed the shot.

My suggestion stays; leave all the fancy stuff at home and master the basics first, just keep your eyes open, stay alert, keep it all light and simple and follow the day as it comes along, you WILL make mistakes the first weddings you do, just make sure you try not to make them again. And don't be frustrated when after many weddings you still mess up once in a while, we all do, only remember that unlike in cinema, there is no second take. :)

Thanks Noa, perfect advice! Appreciate it :)

I know my cameras pretty well now, the GH3 has been out with me all week in the south of France and I already know my other two well. I am thinking to get the two tripods, which I think are necessary for the vows? And then practice, practice, practice. Fortunately, there's an evening the night before where I could practise... Quite looking forward to that too.

Thanks again!!

Hi All,

I've decided to purchase the sachtler tripod, as mentioned in this thread, but I'm also getting the Cinevate Duzi Slider.

I want to know which Manfrotto Tripod Head you would get to fit the Cinevate Duzi Slider, so that I can take the camera from my Manfrotto Monopod and attach it using the quick release plate.

Does anyone know of the cheapest Manfrotto head that would enable this?

Thank you for all of your help so far!!! I am about to purchase the Sachtler and the Duzi, and then it will be a case of getting a cheap recorder to please the groom, but as my single delivery is a four minute video to music, sound is not going to help this production.

Thanks again!

P.s. should I get the ground level, or mid-level spreader for the Sachtler M?

Mid level. Churches love putting you in the choir with steps in the way.

Thanks Danny...

Can anyone recommend a head for the Duzi, which will enable me to join the Manfrotto Quick Release plate to it (from the monopod)?

Also, is this an OK place to buy the Sachtler?

Thanks again!

http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sachtler_ace-tripod-mid_system
Or here:
http://www.visuals.co.uk/salesProductDetail.php?PRODUCTID=2842189

Thanks Danny...

Can anyone recommend a head for the Duzi, which will enable me to join the Manfrotto Quick Release plate to it (from the monopod)?

Also, is this an OK place to buy the Sachtler?

Thanks again!

Sachtler ACE M MS System includes Ace Fluid Head, Ace Tripod with mid-level spreader and bag (p/n 1001) (http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sachtler_ace-tripod-mid_system)
Or here:
SACHTLER System Ace M MS - System Ace M MS Ace M fluid head + tripod Ace ... (http://www.visuals.co.uk/salesProductDetail.php?PRODUCTID=2842189)

I've bought from CVP many times and also seen them at several trade shows. They're a real company if that's what you're worried about. I have no experience of the other one.

Small head for the slider would be the 701HDV.
Manfrotto 701HDV (701-HDV) Pro Fluid Video Mini Head (http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/manfrotto_701hdv)

[Edit:] Oops, looks like the 701HDV has been replaced so just click on the link to the new one.

Definitely get the mid level spreader and not the ground level version of the tripod.

I've bought from CVP many times and also seen them at several trade shows. They're a real company if that's what you're worried about. I have no experience of the other one.

Small head for the slider would be the 701HDV.
Manfrotto 701HDV (701-HDV) Pro Fluid Video Mini Head

[Edit:] Oops, looks like the 701HDV has been replaced so just click on the link to the new one.

Definitely get the mid level spreader and not the ground level version of the tripod.

Thanks Dave! CVP it is! That is all I was worried about, I'm always nervous when buying online, as I only ever seem to use Amazon...

I've got them both in the basket! Finally, can the Cinevate Duzi Slider just attach to the Sachtler Tripod or do I need a connection kit of some kind???

Thank you so much for all of your help! Without this forum, I would have spent many more hours than I already have researching everything possible! I'm really excited for the wedding now, and feel I couldn't have done more to be prepared. I know that it won't be a masterpiece, seeing as it's my first go... but I'm trying.

Finally, can the Cinevate Duzi Slider just attach to the Sachtler Tripod or do I need a connection kit of some kind???

What ever you want to mount you'll need the appropriate quick release plate. If it's a sacthler head then you'll need a sachtler quick release plate on the bottom of the Duzi. If your Sachtler has a Manfrotto adapter then use a Manfrotto quick release plate. Hopefully you get the idea :)

What ever you want to mount you'll need the appropriate quick release plate. If it's a sacthler head then you'll need a sachtler quick release plate on the bottom of the Duzi. If your Sachtler has a Manfrotto adapter then use a Manfrotto quick release plate. Hopefully you get the idea :)

Hmmm... I don't think I do... but I think it will click once the equipment arrives...

I'll have a Sachtler head... and it'll need to connect to the Duzi via a Manfrotto Quick Release Plate? Like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-200PL-Quick-Release-Plate/dp/B007YZENAM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393795298&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sachtler+to+manfrotto+plates

I'm confused!!! Sorry to keep bothering you, but if you can ellaborate, I'd be really thankful. I'm heading to the venue on Saturday, and was going to try out my gear.

Hmmm... I don't think I do... but I think it will click once the equipment arrives...

I'll have a Sachtler head... and it'll need to connect to the Duzi via a Manfrotto Quick Release Plate? Like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-200PL-Quick-Release-Plate/dp/B007YZENAM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393795298&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sachtler+to+manfrotto+plates

I'm confused!!! Sorry to keep bothering you, but if you can ellaborate, I'd be really thankful. I'm heading to the venue on Saturday, and was going to try out my gear.

Noooo.....

If you have a Sachtler head then what ever you mount with need a Sacthler quick release plate. End of story.

If you want to be able to take your camera from (say) your mono pod or the head on the Duzi and mount it on your Sacthler then you'll either need to remove the Manroto mounting plate you've been using on the camera for the monopod / slider and fit the Sacthler plate, OR you'll need to use a Manfroto adapter on the Sacthler plate so that it accepts the Manftotto QR plate. The same goes for mounting the slider on the Sachtler, you'll need some way of mounting it.

The one you linked to is a photo plate and not suitable for video.

The Manfrotto plates look like this (this will be on the mono pod and small head you're buying)
Manfrotto 501PL Accessory Plate: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-501PL-Accessory-Plate/dp/B0017U0BRE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393795689&sr=8-1&keywords=manfrotto+QR+plate+video)

This is the 577 R adapter that 'could' mount to your Sachler QR plate and allow you to slide in the Manfrotto plates "if that's what you want to do".
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MANFROTTO-577-ADAPTER-SLIDING-PLATE/dp/B00009XV3M/ref=pd_sim_ph_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JX96WY9S7TBHJ8SB2X5

One thing I learned a very long time ago is not to mix and match plates because you'll always want to mount a camera with one type of plate on a tripod with a different plate and it's a PITA to have to keep changing them.

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates. We went all Manfrotto to simplify things, but if you are going with the Sachtler then you'll need to make compromises by either having different plates or by using the Manfrotto 577QR plate to adapter everything else to the Sachtler head.

I'm not a big fan of the 577 QR, even though we have two or three of them. The lever on the right side bumps up against the bottom of the camera when tightening and can be a problem to undo if it's too tight because you can't get much leverage on it.

Noooo.....

If you have a Sachtler head then what ever you mount with need a Sacthler quick release plate. End of story.

If you want to be able to take your camera from (say) your mono pod or the head on the Duzi and mount it on your Sacthler then you'll either need to remove the Manroto mounting plate you've been using on the camera for the monopod / slider and fit the Sacthler plate, OR you'll need to use a Manfroto adapter on the Sacthler plate so that it accepts the Manftotto QR plate. The same goes for mounting the slider on the Sachtler, you'll need some way of mounting it.

The one you linked to is a photo plate and not suitable for video.

The Manfrotto plates look like this (this will be on the mono pod and small head you're buying)
Manfrotto 501PL Accessory Plate: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

This is the 577 R adapter that 'could' mount to your Sachler QR plate and allow you to slide in the Manfrotto plates "if that's what you want to do".
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MANFROTTO-57...Y9S7TBHJ8SB2X5

One thing I learned a very long time ago is not to mix and match plates because you'll always want to mount a camera with one type of plate on a tripod with a different plate and it's a PITA to have to keep changing them.

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates. We went all Manfrotto to simplify things, but if you are going with the Sachtler then you'll need to make compromises by either having different plates or by using the Manfrotto 577QR plate to adapter everything else to the Sachtler head.

I'm not a big fan of the 577 QR, even though we have two or three of them. The lever on the right side bumps up against the bottom of the camera when tightening and can be a problem to undo if it's too tight because you can't get much leverage on it.

Thanks Dave!!! This makes a lot more sense now...

So given that it's a hassle, is there a Manfrotto Video Tripod that can hold up against the Sachtler in your opinion? I agree that it sounds like a hassle and would be interested in hearing your advice if I was to switch from the Sachtler... if not, at least there's a plate that you've provided and I'll pick that up too!

I'll buy tomorrow instead of tonight. Cheers!

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates.

Eventhough the plate from my sachtler ace is twice as long as the plate of my manfrotto 501hdv I can exchange and use both plates on both tripodheads.

Eventhough the plate from my sachtler ace is twice as long as the plate of my manfrotto 501hdv I can exchange and use both plates on both tripodheads.

That's good to know Noa, thanks. When I looked at them at the show they looked different enough and the rep said they were incompatible. I trust you more than him ;)

That sounds great! So given that I'll be able to interchange the two, will I only need a connection for the slider to sit on the Sachtler?

Thanks for all your help, buying both now.

Cheers.

That sounds great! So given that I'll be able to interchange the two, will I only need a connection for the slider to sit on the Sachtler?

Thanks for all your help, buying both now.

Cheers.

That certainly sounds like it.

Hallelujah! Thank you! I will purchase a connector now.. is there one for the Ace? Or should I just get the Manfrotto?

I've finished my purchases for this wedding... I am now broke ha. Thank you to all of you for the help.

I go to the venue on Saturday, and then it will take place at Easter. Can't wait to shoot it and return with my video.

Thank you again.

Hey,

So the Sachtler arrived and I love it! Thanks for the recommendation! The slider too, creates some amazing shots... Although I won't over-use it on the day!

As for mounting it onto the tripod, I don't understand how a 577 plate will help, it looks just like a way to add another quick release plate onto the original quick release plate??? :/

The Duzi has a baseplate with lots of different mounts, so does anyone know how to mount it to a tripod? I've searched on YouTube and people are detaching ball heads, but I want to mount to a ball head, rather than the tripod directly!

I'll try to spin it onto the head when I get home, as this may be a simple fix. But I'm just asking now so that hopefully someone will have replied by the time I get back.

Thank you again for all your help!

Craig

Hey,
As for mounting it onto the tripod, I don't understand how a 577 plate will help, it looks just like a way to add another quick release plate onto the original quick release plate??? :/
Craig

Until Noah said the plates were compatible, that's what you were going to have to do.... mount the 577 on the Sacthler QR plate in order to use the Manfrotto plates everywhere, but since they are compatible then you don't need the 577, you just needed the QR plate that comes with it (and can be bought separately) as I mentioned above (and again here)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-501PL-Accessory-Plate/dp/B0017U0BRE

You attach (screw) the Manrtotto QR plate (not the 577 base) to the bottom of the slider and then it will mount on to your Sachtler head like like your camera does. You then put your camera on the slider. Effectively the slider is sitting between your camera and head and can be removed quickly be releasing the plate.

Thank you Dave, if we meet at a conference in the future as I decide to become a full time videographer, I will buy you a pint. Really appreciate the help you have given me.

The plate looks exactly the same as the one I have already though, and I tried to attach it to the Duzi and it did so fine. The problem comes when the feet try to slide onto the tripod and hit the locking levers. Bit of a pain, looks as though I'll need to raise the Duzi a good few inches to avoid doing this.

*edit* or you can just remove the feet lol. Done! Thanks!!

And now I realise why I need another QR plate too. Cheers. Sorry for being so slow.

Hi All,

I'm gearing up to shoot the wedding next week... I've got a week and a bit now to prep! I'm currently re-watching tutorials and ensuring my gear is sorted.

For those interested, I've ended up with:

Bodies / Camcorders: GH3, EM-5, X800
Lenses: 12mm f2, 25mm f1.4, 45mm f1.8 and 75mm f1.8 primes from Olympus / Panasonic and a 12-50mm kit lens. (All M4/3 so Crop Factor x2).
Batteries: 3 batteries for the GH3, 2 batteries for the OM-D and X800.
SD cards: 1x 64GB, 6x 32GB, 1x 16GB cards
Additional accessories:
Z-Finder pro 2.5x magnifier for GH3
Sachtler Ace Tripod
Manfrotto Video Monopod
Cinevate Duzi Slider (with additional Manfrotto head)

Question #1: Looking at my kit, do you think I have enough cards / batteries?

As I'm delivering a music video, there's no need for audio.

However, the groom has hinted that it would be amazing to remember the speeches (I'll just create an option on the DVD / provide them with an additional video file). The bride isn't interested in any audio from the day, but she's got no issue with a tabletop mic for the speeches.

Question #2: Which audio tabletop solution for £100 would you consider? I can go over-budget if necessary...

I'm considering an Olympus voice recorder... I think I could use a tabletop mic stand and perhaps their stereo mic to place inside, such as the Olympus ME-51S Stereo Microphone?

Alternatively, I know the Shure SM58 is supposed to be a good mic, but which recorder could I pair it with that would be reasonably cheap? I would prefer not to have such a large mic, as I think the Bride will kick up a fuss.. she basically doesn't want to see ANY audio recording equipment. That's not why I've been asked to do the wedding, photos are their primary interest.

I'm unsure, with my lack of knowledge with regards to microphones / recorders, which is the best option to go with... I could always hook up my OM-D and an on-board mic if necessary (but I don't own one, I'm guessing I'd spring for a ROde)... I'd like your recommendations if possible though please?

Thanks for all of your help thus far, I can't wait to deliver something to the couple.. I've been practising with their song and it is looking decent... (using a girl I'm seeing as my model). I'm just trying to balance my shots between static shots of bride / location shots / b roll (tripod and monopod) and shots with movement (monopod and slider).

Looking at storytelling theory too.

Question #3: How many shots would you say on an average wedding day would be static shots, compared with shots with movement? Are most of your shots static for a wedding? Or a balance between the two? How do you feel movement affects the storytelling? Do you use it to put something across to your audience, or is it there for other reasons?

As their main preference is photography, I don't want to bring my own lighting systems... they're getting the best I can with natural light and my primes / bumping ISO. I've spoken to the venue and they're going to keep the lighting a little brighter during the dances for me also. Bonus!

The venue itself has loads of windows, which should be great for natural light too.

Question #4: Given that I'm making no money from this video, and I'm an amateur, is it okay to post my video here when I've completed it? It will contain their favourite song, which is why I'm aware that if I was making money, potentially I would be breaking the law by posting it? As I'm not making any money, am I allowed to post??? If not, I might make a second video using a licensed song.

Thanks again for all your help!!!

Sounds to me like you're gearing up for some fun :)

I haven't gone back and read everything already written in this thread (it's been a while), so forgive me if some of this is repeated.

BTW - how did the christening go?

Weddings....
Batteries & cards would be my main concern. We usually turn up to weddings with at least 5 or 6 hours of battery per camera (we have lots of batteries!). If in doubt, take your chargers and get the first battery on charge as soon as it's flat so that it's recharged for when the next one runs out. Nothing worse than batteries and cards running out. Speeches are the time you'll be sweating most since those can be short or really long.

For cards it's hard to know since I don't have your camera types. Noa and others will be able to chime in more, but I'd expect to have 4 hours of cards for each camera if possible. You shouldn't need that much, but better to be safe than sorry.

Audio recorders / microphones..... well, how many people are going to be giving speeches and where are they going to be located? Each country / area of tradition can be different. Here the speeches are typically Father of the Bride (sat on the Bride's left), the Groom (sat on the Bride's right) and Best Man, usually at one or other end of the 'top' table usually to the far right of the groom (far left when looking from the room).

However, I understand that in other countries the speeches are completely different, don't include the groom but do include the bridesmaid / maid of honour etc. So find that out.

Will they all go to a podium to speak? It's very rare here, but apparently the norm in many places. If so, you can get away with one mic at the podium, but if they are speaking from their positions at the table (which is far more common here) then chances are you'll need at least two (one in front of the bride to share between Father and Groom) and one at the other end for the best man. We like to place at least one mic in front of each of them where possible and you can generally hide a small recorder in the flowers that are typically in the centre of the top table (so the bride won't be looking at a mic).

Will they be using an in-house (or DJ provided) PA system? If so this can be either a blessing (good audio) or a curse (bad audio and/or echo). Sometimes placing a mic (the SM58 is good for this) in front of one of the speakers will get you the audio you need, but then when one of the people decide they're not going to use the in-house mic then you're screwed and you'll which you'd placed them on the table.

If there are more speeches then consider more mics. It's tough to know all this ahead of time so having spares helps, but since this isn't a paying gig it's hard to justify.

Personally, I wouldn't be using large mics like the SM58. We have a couple but they aren't good for speeches unless they are being hand held fairly close to the mouth. Smaller recorders like the Zoom H1 are great, but some one, I think it was Roger Gunkel posted a recommendation for these: Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BOK931C/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2XELRTZ3J1CF3&coliid=I30HORF9JJEJX1&psc=1) I have no personal experience of them but a couple of others thought they were good too.

If it's just for memories then a shotgun on one of the cameras could work, but on camera mics are pretty lousy for this sort of thing.

Static vs moving.... that's a personal choice and very often down to the surroundings and the people. Do what you think is best and enjoy it. Be cautious of concentrating too much on getting one kind of shot perfectly, get a variety where possible.

As for windows.... that can work for you or against you. Lots of windows are great if they are behind you or even to the side, but when you're shooting in to the windows then you can end up with a choice of massively over exposing the window in order to get the couple bright enough, losing quality around the edges of people because of sensor overload, or you start under exposing and cause yourself grief in post.

Some venues think it's fun to stand the couple right in front of a large window where it's light, but it can cause havoc if you're stood at the front looking back in to a darker room. Others think it's nice to have the couple against a 'feature' like a dark fireplace and you're really scratching around for light! Without knowing the layout, where the windows are and where the couple will be stood (or places for speeches) it's really hard to know if lots of windows is good or bad, especially if the sun is going in and out all the time.

Also, try to get good audio during the ceremony too. While the Bride doesn't care about audio now, one day she might, and putting together something with audio of the views and/or rings can make a huge difference, even if it's just for you to play with when practising editing.

Sounds to me like you're gearing up for some fun :)

I haven't gone back and read everything already written in this thread (it's been a while), so forgive me if some of this is repeated.

BTW - how did the christening go?

Weddings....
Batteries & cards would be my main concern. We usually turn up to weddings with at least 5 or 6 hours of battery per camera (we have lots of batteries!). If in doubt, take your chargers and get the first battery on charge as soon as it's flat so that it's recharged for when the next one runs out. Nothing worse than batteries and cards running out. Speeches are the time you'll be sweating most since those can be short or really long.

For cards it's hard to know since I don't have your camera types. Noa and others will be able to chime in more, but I'd expect to have 4 hours of cards for each camera if possible. You shouldn't need that much, but better to be safe than sorry.

Audio recorders / microphones..... well, how many people are going to be giving speeches and where are they going to be located? Each country / area of tradition can be different. Here the speeches are typically Father of the Bride (sat on the Bride's left), the Groom (sat on the Bride's right) and Best Man, usually at one or other end of the 'top' table usually to the far right of the groom (far left when looking from the room).

However, I understand that in other countries the speeches are completely different, don't include the groom but do include the bridesmaid / maid of honour etc. So find that out.

Will they all go to a podium to speak? It's very rare here, but apparently the norm in many places. If so, you can get away with one mic at the podium, but if they are speaking from their positions at the table (which is far more common here) then chances are you'll need at least two (one in front of the bride to share between Father and Groom) and one at the other end for the best man. We like to place at least one mic in front of each of them where possible and you can generally hide a small recorder in the flowers that are typically in the centre of the top table (so the bride won't be looking at a mic).

Will they be using an in-house (or DJ provided) PA system? If so this can be either a blessing (good audio) or a curse (bad audio and/or echo). Sometimes placing a mic (the SM58 is good for this) in front of one of the speakers will get you the audio you need, but then when one of the people decide they're not going to use the in-house mic then you're screwed and you'll which you'd placed them on the table.

If there are more speeches then consider more mics. It's tough to know all this ahead of time so having spares helps, but since this isn't a paying gig it's hard to justify.

Personally, I wouldn't be using large mics like the SM58. We have a couple but they aren't good for speeches unless they are being hand held fairly close to the mouth. Smaller recorders like the Zoom H1 are great, but some one, I think it was Roger Gunkel posted a recommendation for these: Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BOK931C/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2XELRTZ3J1CF3&coliid=I30HORF9JJEJX1&psc=1) I have no personal experience of them but a couple of others thought they were good too.

If it's just for memories then a shotgun on one of the cameras could work, but on camera mics are pretty lousy for this sort of thing.

Static vs moving.... that's a personal choice and very often down to the surroundings and the people. Do what you think is best and enjoy it. Be cautious of concentrating too much on getting one kind of shot perfectly, get a variety where possible.

As for windows.... that can work for you or against you. Lots of windows are great if they are behind you or even to the side, but when you're shooting in to the windows then you can end up with a choice of massively over exposing the window in order to get the couple bright enough, losing quality around the edges of people because of sensor overload, or you start under exposing and cause yourself grief in post.

Some venues think it's fun to stand the couple right in front of a large window where it's light, but it can cause havoc if you're stood at the front looking back in to a darker room. Others think it's nice to have the couple against a 'feature' like a dark fireplace and you're really scratching around for light! Without knowing the layout, where the windows are and where the couple will be stood (or places for speeches) it's really hard to know if lots of windows is good or bad, especially if the sun is going in and out all the time.

Also, try to get good audio during the ceremony too. While the Bride doesn't care about audio now, one day she might, and putting together something with audio of the views and/or rings can make a huge difference, even if it's just for you to play with when practising editing.

Thanks Dave, amazing advice (as always!)

I'm definitely gearing up for some fun... I'm really excited... because it's a chance to be creative with fairly limitless options (I have no requirements other than shooting a close to four minute video, shooting in B&W with a highlight filter (which will be minimal due to personal taste) and potentially shooting a long video of everyone, which will be sped up in post to produce ten seconds of everyone having a fun time, which will either make or not make the final cut... depending upon her thoughts as to my final delivery (forced to add, or not... as she really liked this one particular video and I don't really want to copy the style... especially considering that his exposure was largely under-exposed for most of the video and the things that worked will be fairly obviously copied to her friendship circle).

Other than these requirements, I am free to shoot as I please and potentially, this could lead to a new career... one that wouldn't require sixteen hour long days for seven weeks continuously, followed by a break... I can't keep up with the teaching lifestyle anymore, but won't say much else given the real name basis of the forum... I understand editing and the days shooting are long, but I honestly think the nature of a 30 day wedding year versus a 200+ days worth of teaching year, is greatly advantageous given that teaching requires perhaps, more hours and performing, whereas I'll enjoy the editing hours...

No problem... and the Christening has yet to come, it will be on Sunday... I'm considering recording it, but I think my brother is more interested in using me as a photographer... also, my mum wants me to teach her how to use her camcorder for those precious family moments... given my research and growing familiarity with DSLR style shooting, I don't feel the need to set up everything on that day... in fact, I'm considering doing the gardening set up tomorrow instead... but I think syncing isn't really a problem anymore, as I only need to provide a four minute video... given that there's no audio to be synced and no video that will likely follow for such a limited period of time, I think it's overkill. Like you say later in your post, I'm hoping to provide many different angles to everything that's occurring as much as possible. That'll allow me to use 1-2 second clips in the edit and produce a memorable video (hopefully). So I won't worry too much about capturing video on Sunday... I'm more so interested in making sure that my brother has some memories as photographs... as that's his main interest.

Thanks Dave, I may spring for another battery for the GH3 and another for the OM-D. Otherwise, I think I'm set... I'm sure that I have enough cards, although I will check...

Hmmm, I'm fairly certain it's the father of the bride, groom and best man for this wedding's speeches too... finger's crossed it is only those three, but there will be no podium... which likely means I'll have to string for a few different audio recorders... those for £35 might do the trick... I might invest in two of those and hide one for the wedding vows as you say... although I think she will NEVER want the audio, as she seems pretty set on not wanting any of her voice in the video... it'll be interesting to see how much video she lets me shoot as well on the day, as I get the feeling she might just want me to video five minutes of each different part of the day... do you find any brides are like this? Or are they happy to be filmed all day??? I realise shooting with a 50mm lens in your face is less than optimal for your special day... but the footage captured could be amazing... and especially in the preps in the morning, I want to shoot as much as possible to ensure I have as much as I need to create a compelling visual montage...

Generally speaking, will a small voice recorder pick up their voices reasonably well without an external mic?

Hmmm yes, I'm unsure about the PA system, and from what people state about them... I'm unsure if I want to go that route... also seems to require more expensive equipment, given the cost of two £35 voice recorders vs the Shure mic and Zoom.

Yeah, considering it's not a paying gig and I've paid out thousands, I think they can just appreciate what I have lol. But I would like to still be able to provide them with good sound of the speeches, even if it's just for the groom's benefit.

Thanks... it was really interesting for me to place some footage I captured of the girl I'm dating for two minutes... the shots looked really good (monopod moving from an out of focus area into a focused area on the eyes for make up - similar to what I've seen on Creative Live) but they were too numerous in the edit... I yearned for static shots or shots that set up the location etc. I realise it was a short snippet and only 2 minutes because the model wasn't interested in being videoed... but I learnt a lot... even not to shoot at f1.4 on a M4/3 camera (f.2.8 depth of field on 35mm) as it's overload. I'm going to shoot at f2 as the lowest aperture on the day, and give myself some area for mistakes with focusing... then shoot with a low aperture (f4.5-5) for most of the day to ensure the story is told, rather than shallow depth of fielding the entire video, which is silly and not telling a story of their day.

From this exercise, I believe I want to use my Monopod in preps as much as possible, but to get storytelling shots - close ups of presents (iPad and Groom's present), slider for the multi-coloured socks we're wearing as the groomsmen and a range of over the shoulder shots for any writing that goes on, to setting up the scene - starting wide and then moving in... from 12mm (24mm) to 25mm (50mm) and then zooming with my feet for close ups of hands, dress, ties etc. Later in the day, I'll capture the ceremony as best as I can (shown below) but also go around with the photogs for b-roll and eventually the first dance etc... there's also a 15 minute slot in the morning just for the dress... any ideas on what to do creatively during this segment? I'm considering my slider and taking the dress outside if it's a nice day... but then I think it will (again) depend on the photogs.

This is exactly my problem - I'm shooting INTO the windows, which are huge and it was difficult to expose correctly. I ended up deciding (when I went for a test shoot) to blow out the windows and expose the front table as best as I could... in reality, this is going to be my back up shot, and I'm going to shoot from the side (where I'm sitting on the front row), but before I do, I'm getting a wide angle shot with a slider of the isle before and during the event, with the tripod facing down the isle exposing the bride and groom and myself moving to the right hand side, shooting the bride and also the hands - rings - as well as the kiss (hopefully). The only pain here is that there are no ways for me to position a third camera on the groom... basically, there is only one entrance - the isle - and no other way to move around.

It's for this reason - sun going in and out - that I'm going to leave the OM-D potentially in iAuto mode at the back... or I'll just have to pre-expose and hope... nightmare situation really... at least the footage from the side will be good enough, even if I won't have a huge variety for that particular part of the wedding... any ideas?

Definitely!!! Makes me want to capture that audio without her knowledge... but I'll see... ultimately, I'd love to make a number of edits, as it'll be my only chance to do a wedding, and I'm excited!!!

Thanks again!!!

Generally speaking, will a small voice recorder pick up their voices reasonably well without an external mic?

Honestly, I don't know anything about that recorder, I just noticed it as others were recommending it. We use the Zoom H1 and yes it's built in mics pick up enough to use.

If people are making speeches without a PA system they tend to speak up. If they are using a PA system you've got the original voice (which will be quieter), the sound coming from the speakers and then the nasty bounce back off the walls too, and in my experience that makes for a really wooly sound that's a pain to mix clearly. You have to really start playing with the EQ and every room is different. That's why I like to mic the PA speakers if they are being used, and use that audio where possible, resorting to the table mics only if they aren't using the PA. Other recorders (or possibly on-camera mics) get the ambient sounds from the room at important parts such as applause, laughter etc.

Those recorders are however small enough to add cheap(ish) wired lav mics which means you could mic the Father/Groom/Best man and get pretty good sound that way (do it without the bride seeing!).

Perhaps if they are reading this, Peter or Roger could jump in here and give their experience of this recorder???

I've started to use the Sony digital recorders all the time now. Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder
Two things, Firstly they are simple to use. Switch on, press record!
second they give acceptable sound quality and are cheap!
I went out and bought 5. I now have 7 small recorders , all with tie clip microphones so I mic up everyone doing speeches.
If they want to start walking around its no sweat. If they talk quietly, no problems.
I like to make my life as stress free as I can.

What mics are you using with these John?

Dave, the version I bought came with their own microphones. they are stereo microphones.
A little larger than the tie clip microphones I have used in the past, but they work well.
I will see if I can find a link to them.

Buy Sony ICD-PX312M 2GB Ddigital Voice Recorder with Memory Card Slot/Mic | Free Delivery | Hiwayhifi (http://www.hiwayhifi.co.uk/sony-icdpx312m?gclid=CI2jie3j0L0CFefMtAodHnEAGA)

I purchased mine through Amazon but found this link to them.

I still use my Yamaha c24 recorder which now works flawlessly after the firmware update, however the Sony recorders are so simple and have been faultless. ( so far)

Honestly, I don't know anything about that recorder, I just noticed it as others were recommending it. We use the Zoom H1 and yes it's built in mics pick up enough to use.

If people are making speeches without a PA system they tend to speak up. If they are using a PA system you've got the original voice (which will be quieter), the sound coming from the speakers and then the nasty bounce back off the walls too, and in my experience that makes for a really wooly sound that's a pain to mix clearly. You have to really start playing with the EQ and every room is different. That's why I like to mic the PA speakers if they are being used, and use that audio where possible, resorting to the table mics only if they aren't using the PA. Other recorders (or possibly on-camera mics) get the ambient sounds from the room at important parts such as applause, laughter etc.

Those recorders are however small enough to add cheap(ish) wired lav mics which means you could mic the Father/Groom/Best man and get pretty good sound that way (do it without the bride seeing!).

Perhaps if they are reading this, Peter or Roger could jump in here and give their experience of this recorder???

OK thank you.

My final questions with regards to audio would be the need to buy a stereo recorder versus a mono recorder?

And is there a general understanding that you use different channels for different things? Like X and Y for foley and A and B for speech? Read something about that, but didn't quite get the full gist.

I think I'm going to buy two Zoom H1s and then I can use it for doing two places on the table and I'll just ask the best man not to wander! I know him quite well now... as well as this, I'll record the band as well...

Hmmm I think the Bride would get me if she caught me with the mics in! Haha I'm not into risking that and our friendship! But I'll definitely consider asking the venue tomorrow if they're going to use a speaker system... still think I'll go with the tiny recorders considering this isn't their main interest anyways...

Thanks for your help Dave (as always). I got the Z Finder Pro today and quite like it, even though it's a little fiddly.

Finishing up my editing training and then I'm going to go back and refresh my understanding of getting shots, along with practising more myself with my equipment.

Thanks again!!! I'll be back, I'm sure.

Hi All,

I've discovered an issue in my workflow:

EM 5 = 60p or 30p
GH3 = 50p, 25p or 24p
X800 = 50p

Therefore, I'm going to shoot in 50p, but when it comes to importing OMD EM5 footage, what will happen? Should I shoot at 60p and just change its frame rate to 50p upon importing (if that's even possible)? Did a quick search online... no ideas there... I'm sure that I'll be able to match it up somehow, especially considering that the audio shouldn't matter...

Thanks if anyone can help... 2 days to go!

Shoot at 60p, import as 60p and just drop it on to a 50p timeline as if it were 50p. Most NLEs will cope with this. The gotcha may be tiny sync issues here and there, and keep an eye on the audio.

Worst case is you can take the 60p footage in to something like MediaEncoder or Compressor etc and tell it to make a 50p file, but you probably won't need to do that as long as your NLE copes.

If you were to change the frame rate from 60p to 50p before dropping it on the timeline then the timing would definitely be out of sync because the file would be being played slower. Keeping it as a 60p file played on a 50p timeline will make the NLE interpolate the frames to fit.

What NLE are you using?

Thanks Dave! Sweet. I use Final Cut Pro X, so I'd assume that will cope fine? I tried reading an article about it from Apple themselves, but I was unsure if it was okay to do so still.

Thanks. I think I'm sorted. Cards formatted for each camera and stored in a card holder, all batteries charged - although this is a bit of a nightmare when you have 4 batteries for a camera - any mass charging solutions??? Or do you just spend a day charging before each shoot?!

Otherwise, two Tascam DR-07Mk iis and two table top tripods to aim them at the speaker. I have tried recording a few speeches that I've been doing, and it seems the gain as high as 90 seems to work brilliantly if the person is a metre or more away. Imported to FCPX and increased the volume by 12db and the sound quality was superb. Speakers are at either end of the table, so that should have me covered and if not, the b&g are aware.

I've now spent around £3000+ on this wedding. Lol at the thread title.

It's a good job I live at home. You all must be really successful to be able to afford new gear all of this gear.

I've written a 7 page plan for the day, which looks at all of my shots that I want, potential transitions and equipment needed for each section, as well as my mate covering equipment at different points.

I'll have two locked off cameras. I'm going to set the focus point on the OMD EM5 and then hope that the lighting doesn't change too drastically. But I'm unsure if I'd be better to just leave it in aperture priority or shutter priority and then let it do its thing??? The camcorder will be locked off as well, and that one I'll just leave in auto. Hope it does a good job.

Otherwise, it's all about me and the monopod and slider. Slider shots from the isle after the bride walks past - few different shots and then take my seat at the front and move out getting shots with the GH3 and monopod.

I think the ceremony has me nervous. All other parts of the day, I feel content.

Massive thanks Dave!!!!

FCPX should handle it no problem, though of course creating proxies for at least the multi cam sections is recommended (then export from the full res versions). I use FCPX all the time now.

If in doubt, record some 50p and 60p footage "now" and drop them on the same time line and see how it goes. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Set both cameras up side by side then stand in front and clap, then wait 60 seconds (or better yet - 5 mins) and then clap again. Drop them on to the same sequence and see if the claps still line up. If they do you're good to go, if they don't then there is a little work to do.

In terms of batteries, perhaps I can offer one more tip. Get some small elastic bands and put them around the charged batteries. Remove the band when you put it on the camera. When you go looking for the next charged battery - they are the ones with the elastic bands still on them and it makes it much easier to find them when in a hurry or it's dark.

For the cards, store them face up in the case when they are blank and face down when they are full.

When you remove a lens cap put it straight in your pocket (same pocket every time). That way you'll never lose a cap because you'll know exactly where it is.

Get in to these few habits form the start and they will serve you well. I've never lost a cap, never tried to put a battery on that was already used and never tried to reuse a card that's already been used.

One more tip. Make sure the time/clock on each camera is synced to within a couple of seconds so that when you import them to FCPX all the files will be in the right order in the event. Nothing worse than having some footage out of sequence!