I had one of my GH3s lock up a few weeks back. At the time I just assumed it was connected with the SDHC card, maybe a write problem. Had to remove then replace the battery and the problem hasn't occurred since in spite of some fairly concentrated use.


Ron

Is it exclusive to C4K mode or does it happen in the 16:9 4K modes too?

Can anyone here with a GH4 tell me if the ETC mode works in 4K, or is it just in the 1080 mode? I'm thinking of this camera for wildlife, just not sure if it will be the right camera for me yet. If anyone has both the GH3 & GH4 would you maybe try the crop modes in both settings. I am hoping to get super tele shots if it is possible. The GH3 is pretty much there, but if the GH4 has even great reach by using the crop mode in 4k, then that is probably the best way to go. Would be using lenses up to 400mm.
On another subject. For those people shooting wildlife with either the GH3 or 4, how do you go without an ND filter?
Thanks in advance,
Bryce

Bryce,

What sort of numbers are you talking about in "super-tele" with these cameras in crop mode. The Sony EX3/PMW 300 (1/2 inch chip) have a crop factor of 5.4, and in the old Canon XL series it was 7 or even 9.
Are these GH cameras able to compete in that range? Does crop mode employ only the mid section of the chip to record, or are you just shooting and cropping down later on to get the telephoto?

Hi Steve,
I am currently using an EX3. The longest lens i use with it is a Nikon 80-400mm, so if i can get close to that, i would be very happy. I know the GH3 is not quite there, i was wondering though, if the GH4 can do the same sort of electronic crop with a 4k image & then be able to crop further in post down to a 1080 size to get me that little bit more. Not sure if that is how it works though. Not sure if the 4k image is taken from the sensor pixel for pixel or if it is also down sampled from a larger pixel count.
Regards,
Bryce

Bryce, I haven't tried all the permutations, but what seems to me to be the best solution is to shoot 4K with the digital zoom set to 2. With the affordable 100 to 300 panny lens this gets you 2 x 2.2 x 300 or 1320 mm equivalent max. In 4K mode, the 2 x digital zoom is quite well resolved, it seems like something between 4K and 1080p in effective resolution. ETC works only in 1080p mode but it seems to give you less overall resolution. I think you could still crop 4K some with the 2x digital zoom for 1080p delivery or use it uncropped as 4k.

Pat

But when you are talking about electronic cropping, isn't that just the old digital zoom? I hope that's not what they are talking about with their crop factors. I was looking at a review The evolving review of the Panasonic GH4 – EDIT: Now with 96fps Video test | Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.net/2014/05/12/gh4/) where the guy was demonstrating the zoom or crop factor or whatever of the GH4 with a series of eyes in close-up, and although he was impressed, the results are horribly out of focus at higher magnification.

I guess what I would like to see is a comparison of the Panasonic GH4 and the Sony PMW300, each with 400mm glass on the front. That 96 fps feature is really tempting.

Another factor to keep in mind, especially if you are over 50, or wear glasses, is that warbler in the middle of the image you think is in focus as you shoot full-frame turns out not to be when you crop it later at home. That's why I put a 4- diopter lens in my PMW300 viewfinder, to get a bigger, easier to focus, image in the EVF. (If you didn't know, the EX3 offers that, too. It's not well publicized.)

Thanks Pat,
Sounds like there are certainly some options. So when you say that the ETC mode in 1080 gives less overall resolution, do you mean less than the 1080 without the ETC mode turned on? Or less than the resolution of the 4K image with the 2x crop?
Thanks,
Bryce

As for the camera locking up, mine was set for 4K 100mbs 30P and it was what I understand is actually UHD at 3840x2160 instead of the C4k Mode.

My lock-ups may have been caused by this: I have the camera setup to shoot 4K as listed above in creative movie mode and had the C1 custom setting configured to shoot 1080P in ETC mode. With this i could shift between the two just by moving the dial and I was doing so without powering the camera off. This works OK most of the time, but it could have been the cause in the few instances it has happened or I could have inadvertent bumped another button in the heat of action which caused a conflict that locked the camera up. Whatever the cause, I was not actually filming when the camera locked up, but I was changing settings and trying to set a shot up. At any rate it has not happened for over two weeks.

Image quality is very hard to describe or show objectively, but on my equipment the 1080P in ETC mode looks extremely good. In fact I can tell little if any difference between it and 4K, but that is likely a limitation of what I am looking at it on. I also think that either 1080P or 4K from the GH4 looks better than footage from my GH3, but again that is very subjective.

Cropping 4K in post to get the equivalent of 1080P in ETC mode seems to work well, but a downside with shooting wildlife at long range is that it may not appear very large in the finder at long range in 4K, but will look much larger in ETC mode which makes the actual filming more exciting as it seems up close and personal instead of so small and so far and of course makes it easier to manual focus if you are doing that.

As for long range ability, I will not go into the mathematical comparisons, but suffice it to say that I have never felt a sense of loss in going from the Canon XL cameras such as the XL-1s and the XL-H1 for long range work. One may not be able to obtain as much effective focal length from these cameras, but it is enough for serious long range work.

The biggest problem from my perspective is that the lenses that work with auto-focus such as the Lumix 100-300 are a bit short on the long end. For real long range work I have used the Canon 500mm F4 with a Redrock Micro adapter, on the GH2, and GH3 but it is a bit clunky to change apertures and there is no auto-focus. On the other hand, we had to manual focus the L lenses with the XL series anyway so that is not a downside compared to them. I haven't used the Canon telephotos on the GH4 yet, but would expect them to do as well or better on the GH4.

Very informative post thanks Willard! The more i look at this camera, the more i like it.
I am however, still wondering how people are shooting without a built in ND filter. Do you use a variable nd filter to control light, or are you able to get exposure right with a combination of a smaller aperture & higher shutter speed? While in most cases i want all the light i can get filming in the golden hours of the day, there are certainly times when filming in much harsher light necessitates stopping down &/or use nd filters to reduce the light coming in.
Regards,
Bryce

Isn't the inherent crop factor compared with a "full chip 35mm camera" 2.3X at 4K in the GH4 as opposed to 2X in 1080 50p in a GH3 ? On the GH4 it is still 2X in 1080p.

ETC provides an extra 2.4X in both cameras, but only at 1080 25p in the GH3. Reading the specs it seems that ETC is only available at 1080p in the GH4, 25p (or 50p?) (I'm talking in PAL terms but similar basis applies to "NTSC").

I use the 80-400 Nikkor, latest model, on my GH3s and it produces decent images in ETC albeit non-ETC 50p a mite better.

Same lens on my XLH1 and EX3 via a nanoFlash about the same but with the extra crop.

No comparison in terms of portability and ease of use where the GH3 wins. I also use a SWIT focussing monitor with peaking (on all three cameras) and could not return to solely viewfinder focussing (Nikkor manual focus of course).

Am still waiting for my GH4, along with others in the UK, otherwise I'd do a full test/comparison.

Ron

I should have added that I use a nanoFlash with both the XLH1 and EX3, otherwise the GH3 would win easily on image quality.

I should also have added that I use a Novoflex Nikkor/MFT adapter on the GH3, which provides manual aperture control, and that my ND fader filter is hopeless on the GH3/Nikkor in ETC mode.

I therefore used fixed 4X or 8X ND filters with the precaution that they are by B&W, so not cheap.

Ron

Very interesting thanks Ron.

2 Clips from a coming travel video from sweden, small islands in the Botnian gulf.
Heartwarming to see how the male really make sure the chick swallows the fish.

Stunning 4K image quality from this cam.
#1 clip 4K downscaled
#2 clip extra tele (ETC), 1080 50p

Lumix 100-300mm f 8 , focusing by pointing at the lcd screen , very handy.
very slight sharpening/Unsharp mask applied and added contrast in post. Cinelike D picture style, master pedestal +4

GH4 @ wildlife on Vimeo

Lovely Slavonian Grebes. Horned in N America I think, and used to be "Eared" over here.

Footage looks better, sharper with better colour rendition than off a GH3. Pity Vimeo don't do 4K, which YouTube do. I can't get a full 4K picture with this iMac but can get a "2K" pic via the 2560x1440 screen resolution.

Ron

ps I should have my own GH4 by the weekend

Am I correct in saying that there is no ETC in 4K mode?


Ron

That is correct-no ETC in 4k.

i just got that little miracle, can't believe the quality it produces in both 4K modes, properly exposed side by side with Epic's 5K files hard to tell where is what, but i don't use 4k monitor though;
didn't have a chance yet to test DR but i think it'll be very close;
i was very disappointed with GH3, and i am very pleasantly surprised with GH4, love this camera!

If you take the added resolution out of the picture, in what ways has the gh3 disappointed you compared to the gh4?

Dave Dugdale (learningdslrvideo.com) announced yesterday he will be getting rid of all his Canon gear in favor of the GH4 and comparable glass.

Very surprising news for a "big" name in the industry who has historically been an avid Canon supporter.

I shot with the gh4 2 days ago and after filling up two 32 gb cards the camera did lock up once at the end of the evening and I had to remove and reinsert the battery to make it shut down and start up again properly. This seems to be a problem that has been reported by more users so something is going on.

Which memory cards were you using?

No problems with my GH4 so far. I shoot(wildlife) in short series of clips, plenty of record/pause (via a cable remote control) , moving subjects. A clip longer than 60 seconds would be unusual.

I am using Transcend Class 3 64gb cards.


Ron

ps well pleased with the "4" as I was with my "3s"

Hi Ron,
How do you find the GH4 compared to the EX-3 for quality of footage? I downloaded a few GH4 clips & put them up against my EX-3 & was surprised to see little if any difference. I have to think maybe i was doing something wrong in the rendering process or something. I don't want to take anything away from the EX-3, as the picture from it is really very, very good.
Bryce

Which memory cards were you using?

I was using sandisc extreme 45mbs class 10 cards, I have seen reports about users using faster cards with the same issue. In total I shot 1 hour and 45 minutes of footage with a total of about 200 clips of which one was a continuous 30 minute record. No issue whatsoever untill that one moment in the evening.

I downloaded a few GH4 clips & put them up against my EX-3

You can't judge it that way, you have to place the camera's side by side.

Here are a few GH4 4K ("Ultra HD" in fact) clips. Straight off the camera. I've not been able to view in 4K yet. This iMac will only do 2K.
4K - YouTube


Ron

I don't have a 4K monitor either but viewing on my 30" 2560x1600 HP LP3065 those images are very detailed & there are a fair few more pixels than 1920x1080.

BTW what lens are you using for those shots?

the camera did lock up once at the end of the evening and I had to remove and reinsert the battery to make it shut down and start up again properly. This seems to be a problem that has been reported by more users so something is going on.

Got a faster 64gb Kingston card that has around 80/90mbs write and read speed and no problems yesterday and I filled the card completely.

Nigel, the wildflowers with the 14-140, the birds with a Sigma 500 and 1.4X TC , Nikkor mount.

I would've used my 80-400 Nikkor plus ETC with my GH3s but so much more to lose without 4K on the GH4.

Not the easiest combo to focus with or control depth of field.

Had a look on a 4K telly and not bad. The clips are at 3840 x2160 25p UHD bit I'm unsure at the moment whether to stick to UHD 30p, which apparently MBP Retinas and the cheaper 4K monitors happy with.

Ron

And per Noa's post I purchased a couple of Transcend Class 3 64Gb cards which seem okay.
I hate not having two cams one with a long lens the other with a shorter zoom but £1300 each a bit steep. Wonder when the price will drop, as it did for the GH3, September?


Ron

I have just looked at Philip Blooms review of the gh4 and he says something I don't understand, If I understand him right he said that you can get about 30 minutes worth of footage from a 32gb card when shooting in the 4K 100mbs mode, on another site where they reviewed a preproduction model they where talking about a half hour on a 64gb card??

2 weeks ago I managed to shoot 52 minutes worth of footage on a 32gb card, if I check in mediainfo it says about 80mbs in average with around 105mbs max? Why are there so big differences in claimed amount to be recorded, I clearly seem to get much more on a card then most.

The data rates are variable, so they're highly dependent upon the content of the video. Footage with a lot of detail and motion will eat up space on the card quickly - something like an interview shot on a tripod with a seated subject will give you a lot more time on the same card.

I have not shot much static content, but anyways good that I can get at least 1,5 hour out of one 64gb card.

My files are bigger if I attach an external mike.

Ron

Here's a short video cobbled together via Mpeg Streamclip. Settings 1920x1080, 29.97p, 100Mbps, Slow Effect 31%.

I was quite pleased with this as the GH4 won't do slo-mo in 4K/UHD.

Dark Green Fritillaries In Slow Motion. - YouTube

With a Nikkor AF-S 80-400 lens.


Ron

I haven't tried this yet but was that clip shot at that 96fps mode? Eventough the resolution seems to get a visible hit it still would be sharp enough to mix with other 1080p dslr cameras.

Yes , 96fps.

I was hoping to be able to incorporate some slo-mo footage into a UHD timeline (FCPX) but I was a bit concerened about loss of quality. Haven't got round to trying any GH4 stuff yet in FCPX. I much prefer shooting to editing, but will have to give it a go. At the moment I'm trying various GH4 settings.
ETC in 50/60p the next one.

With my GH3s I was able to edit with a 50p timeline which incorporated 25p footage with ETC and 24p "slo-mo". All 1080p of course.

Hoping for the equivalent with the GH4 , all "UHD".

I don't have a 4K monitor, waiting/hoping for a price drop and better choice, and my iMac and MBP can't output 4K or UHD resolution, will though do 2560x 1440 so halfway there perhaps. A new MBP at some stage.

Ron

Went to the beach yesterday and shot some random stuff, I shot in the cine-d preset to test that out and found out the histogram gives a false interpretation where your exposure is in that mode, often the histogram showed I had a perfect exposure but all shots came out underexposed, I know I should have used the zebra's as well as they gave a better indication but I was not sure which one to trust so decided to underexpose as it's much harder to get any detail back from overexposure.

The 2 times I have shot in standard preset both histogram and zebra's gave me a quite accurate reading on where my exposure is, only in cinelike d I seem to have to rely more on the zebra's. I shot this using a 14-140mm f3.5/5.6 lens with a nd filter, shot in 4K, then downsampled to 1080p and uploaded to vimeo who again downscales it to 720p, long live 4K... :)

There where some very harsh light conditions as most was shot when the sun was at it's highest point, some shots (like the first one) was shot a bit later in the evening which gave a better result in overall color, there is a reason why you best shoot around the golden hours in the morning or evening.

The beach on Vimeo

below a link to the youtube video, I think it's time Vimeo starts delivering some decent 1080p view for their paying plus members, youtube is years ahead in outputquality even up to 4K, my video is much sharper on youtube then on vimeo because it is 1080p.
Edit, I provided a direct link, the embed video here from youtube is noticeably softer then when I view it directly on youtube, weird.

link:
youtu.be/xBMFJy4GWKM

Ronald,
Just wondering how you are finding the GH4 compared to your EX3 in low light. I just received my GH4 yesterday & did a few quick test shots last night as the light was failing. I had the cameras set up side by side & simply swapping my 80-400mm Nikkor lens between the two. To my surprise, the GH4 was nowhere near as good in low light as the EX3 at the same settings. Colour rendition too was way off on the GH4. I hope it is simply the set up of the camera that i have wrong. I will try again tonight, but just wondering if this is to be expected.
Regards,
Bryce

Went to the beach yesterday and shot some random stuff . . .
I found this stunning. The compositions were flawless. Even the heat shimmers were nuanced. All exposures must have been graded, because they all seem appropriate for the subject matter. Which proves that in the right hands, niggling details (and I'm not saying there are any here) and minor camera shortcomings are dwarfed by talent and skill. Well done, Noa!

Here's something not stunning and not flawless. ;)

My son happened to have a GH4 with him on the 5th of July, which was when we could get family together. We had a box of 100 rockets and seven 2-inch mortars for our "Grand Finale", which we lit off in the driveway.

In Washington State, this stuff is legal. You buy it from any number of sales tents in various parking lots. My next door neighbor and his family were with us - and he's a county sheriff. :)

I don't know the camera settings, except that it was shot in 4K and used the internal mic. The lens was too long, the tripod didn't tilt high enough, and the audience was impatient, so he shot it handheld.

I don't know what this tells us about the camera - nothing will capture poorly framed handheld fireworks well. Anyway, here's how it performs in terrible conditions. It didn't blow up. :)

FireworksFinale on Vimeo

All exposures must have been graded, because they all seem appropriate for the subject matter.

I was actually not that happy when I returned home viewing the footage but glad you still liked it anyway :) This was not a camera error but one of mine not knowing how the very flat cine-d would affect the data in the histogram and I clearly misinterpreted it. I was however impressed how easily the footage was corrected by lifting it using the yuv curve in edius so yes, there every shot you see in the video has been corrected to get the exposure back to what it should be.

Just wondering how you are finding the GH4 compared to your EX3 in low light

I have done a side by side comparison 2 weeks ago in a very dark venue at 6400 iso and eventhough both display a fair amount of noise the GH4 looks much cleaner on a 1080p timeline, probably because the noise is much smaller as well. I have found 6400 iso on the gh4 in 4K on a 1080p timeline is perfectly usable for my purposes without having to use neatvideo.

When I then add my Olympus 12mm at f2.0 the room is brighter then what I can see with my own eyes, add the advantage of having a deeper dof at f2.0 (compared to a full frame camera with a similar lens) and the fact you can shoot "clean" enough footage at 6400 iso then it can handle any dark situation at a wedding. Will it equal the sony a7s light sensitivity? Absolutely not, but it will enable to you to shoot in a way like you would perceive it with you own eyes (and not make day out of night what the a7s can do but what is the point of that anyway? Some say shooting at very high iso's will enable you a more manageable depth of field by using a higher f-stop but that advantage you have with m4/3 already)

I don't know the camera settings

I don't know what this tells us about the camera

Not much if you don't know what has been going on behind the lens :) The footage is very shaky so he must have used a non stabilised lens?