I've heard that older O'Connor heads were prone to leaking, but that more recently these problems have been solved. Does anyone know when this fix happened? I am looking at a slightly-older-but-not-ancient O'Connor 515 / Ultimate DV head, a model which has been discontinued, and was wondering if anyone has experience with these heads having leaks or other issues.

Many thanks!

My confusion continues. My basic question is: would the O'Connor 515 work as a head for a solo videographer? Too heavy? Too leaky? Too finicky?

Aaron Sharff...I recently found this site (see attached Link). It has a good deal of technical information about the different models and history regarding O'connor Fluid Heads.

O'Connor - NovaCam (http://novacam2000.com/oconnor.html)

I hope this helps.

J.

Thanks, James, I actually ran across that today as well. It's the best information out there on this head. Unfortunately, the guy who runs the site is out on an international job and doesn't seem to be around to contact.

The good news is that there are still people out there servicing these discontinued heads, the bad news it the service costs as much as a used head on eBay. I'm just wondering if the O'Connor is the BMW of heads: really nice, but you have to take it to the mechanic more often than your Honda.

Aaron Sharff... I don't currently own an O'connor Fluid Head, but intend to purchase either a new 1030D or a older refurbished model early next year for use on my Sachtler CF-100ENG HD 2CF sticks.

In this case, I am relying on the recommendations of working professionals, all of whom are very critical when it comes to their equipment, as well as reviews I've read on the Interweb. It's my belief O'connor Fluid Heads are as robust as any premium brand Fluid Head on the Market. Maybe more so because of it's simple design? However, I don't believe it will be an issue. JMHO - YMMV.

I hope this helps.

J.

Something to bear in mind is that anyone using an O'Conner, is, unless they've got considerably more money than sense, a professional who relies on the head practically all day, every day.

As such, their head(s) probably see more use hours in a month than most amateurs and semi pros would rack up in a year or even more.

I would be surprised if the actual "hours use before service" time of similarly rated O'Conner, Sachtler & Vinten heads varies by more than a few percentage points.

Certainly I cannot imagine the O'Conner being as drastically inferior service wise as you seem to be implying, they simply rack up use hours faster.

That said, if any second hand O'Conner you're thinking of buying has racked up or exceeded it's "service time life", and said service costs as much as the head did, there may well be a financial incentive to buy one new.

Do take note of the caveats on that NovaCam site BTW.

With the minimum 515 CB weight being approximately 7lbs at a full 4" (100 mm) COG (515S - 9lbs, DV - 8lbs, DVS - 11lbs+) you're very quickly going to run out of camera unless it's a big rig.


CS

James--

Sounds like an exciting upgrade. I'm guessing you've got a heavier camera than my DSLR rig. That's nice to hear that the O'Connors perform well AND are robust. Hope you enjoy the head when you find one. I'll update this thread with some impressions if I end up with the 515.

Chris--

That makes a lot of sense. What exactly to you mean "run out of camera"? My rig weighs in at 8.4 lbs and is almost 18" from matte box to sound recorder. I thought that would be ok for the 6.7lb minimum on the 515, but you obviously know a lot more about balancing tripod heads than I do and I might be missing something here.

Hi gents:

I've owned O'Connor for a good long while--a 2575 since '98 and a 1030 since '02, and the latter was already a good 8 years old then. Neither have required ANY service relating to the fluid operation. There have been minor parts replaced due to wear. I had the 2575 looked at about 5 years ago and even with day in, day out use the O'Connor peeps said it was in flawless operating condition. I cannot recommend them more highly. They are solid workhorses, built like tanks and have the best feel of any head out there, plus the 90 degree tilt for most models is rare amongst the competition.

If there was a leaking fluid issue, it was likely with the 50 or 100 models which are 25 or more years old. That said, I also own a 50 which is in fantastic condition despite its age, and is just as smooth as the current models (but lacks the adjustable counterbalance).

There are lighter heads, there are heads with more features, and there are definitely cheaper heads out there. But there is a reason that O'Connor is THE standard for the US film industry, you'll find them on the vast majority of studio features and series, and that is they are second to none in performance and reliability.

If there was a leaking fluid issue, it was likely with the 50 or 100 models which are 25 or more years old.

Thanks, Charles, I was hoping that was the case. I'm beginning to feel that even if I buy used and I end up with a leaky seal, it might be worth paying for the service to get a long-lasting, smooth head.

Aaron.............

When you say "18" from Matte box to sound recorder" I take it you mean from front to back?

It's that 4", 6" and 8" COG in the table that is the fly in the ointment.

That is not from front to back, that is the centre of gravity line that runs horizontally through the camera, front to back.

Depending on the camera design and external equipment placement and mass, it's not easy these days to find a semi pro rig (I have no idea what you're actually shooting, so going blind here) that actually has a COG line 4" above the QR plate.

To quickly explain, the COG is that point of the camera, which, if you were to drive a nail from one side to the other though the camera body, the entire camera system would quite happily revolve about until friction on the nail slowed, then stopped it.

The COG point is where both the vertical and the horizontal point intersect, the only thing the head is interested in is the horizontal line, it doesn't really matter if the camera is 10 feet long, front to back (well, sort of).

A 4" COG says the rig must be at least 8" high from the QR plate, assuming the mass is distributed evenly, not something that happens in practice, as the designers try to put high mass items (lens, battery etc) as low as possible.

That means a modern rig, to obtain a 4" COG, may need to be nearly 10" or more inches high (not long).

That's the problem.


CS

Oy. I gathered from this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-sticks-heads/493569-tripod-oconnor-25l-sachtler-da-150m.html) (from Charles Papert, who just posted here as well) that even the 1030 could handle as little as 5lbs.

Chris, thanks for the helpful explanation. I have a Canon 5DII on stainless steel rails with a sound recorder hanging off a plate in the back and a follow focus and (very light) matte box in the front. The sound equipment hangs below the tripod plate, but the camera is raised almost 2" above it. Still, I doubt my COG is more the 1" or 2" up. When I shoot without the sound equipment, that most likely raises the COG up, but lowers the rig weight from ~8.5lbs to ~6.5lbs.

Now that I say it, removing and adding the sound equipment might require rebalancing the head each time, which might become a pain...

Well, it's certainly interesting going through that old thread. I had forgotten all about that discussion.

I have mounted a bare DSLR (either 5D or 1DMKIV, I can't remember which) with ZE lens onto the 1030 and dialed it down to where it balanced perfectly.

I have to pull out some gear today for a rental and if I can remember to, I'll shoot a tiny video to illustrate this.

Hi Guy's,

Steve Turner here. I am the Product Manager for OConnor and noticed this thread.
Thanks for all the kind words on OConnor btw.

Looks like a lot of you guys have read up and know your stuff, but, there was a link to a website that had a little misinformation on it that I'd like to correct.

It is correct that the 1030 was named because the 'sweet spot' was between 10-30lb at 6 inches. However, it was more a marketing decision at the time to aim for cameras in this category rather that any physical limitation of the head.

In fact all OConnor heads in the 'ultimate' range including 515, DV, 1030, 2060 2065, 2575, 50-200 etc. all balance right down to 0. They are the only infinitely adjustable head to do so. It was one of the reasons for its popularity in Hollywood rental houses. They are a good investment because they counterbalance such a vast range of torques that they futureproofed against the faster moving camera developments.

Therefore your DV, 515, 1030 can counterbalance a go pro or novo just as easily as their max payload.

Regarding the reputation for leaking, This may be true of older heads like the model 50 or 100 etc. Certainly any head made now should not leak.

Now, since I am here, please ask any 'head & sticks' question you like as I am more than familiar with most and should be able to help.

Regards,

Steve Turner

Thank you Steve. That is absolutely invaluable information. Now that we are on the subject, another rumor I heard, which I'm now assuming applies only to the older heads, is that it's a bad idea to store O'Connors in cold temperatures. Is this true anymore (or any more true than it is for other brands)?

Steve Turner...speaking only for myself, I'm glad you've 'popped-in' to add your knowledge of the O'connor product line to the discussion.

Have fun!

Best regards,

J.

Steven...............

First up, good to have you "treading the boards" here on DVinfo, about bloody time too, if I may say so.

You're too valuable a support manufacturer to have out in the cold (I do realise that there are "business model" reasons, and more, the "others" aren't here, but the "big three" are indispensable. Why the "others" haven't figured out they're shooting themselves in both feet, knees and hips in the process, eludes me).

Thanks for clearing up that counterbalance thing.

I'd been informed previously by Charles that your story was the "real story", so I was somewhat surprised to see an entirely different message being broadcast from that site. I wonder why they do it if it's complete boll**ks? Very strange.

Whilst you're here and this is most definitely an O'Conner themed thread, may I refer back to another (thread) where this rather esoteric sentence (from yourself) found air space:

Without seeking council with anyone within our business that may be inconvenienced by this, I am not against the idea of loaning systems on a trial basis.

Erm, what?

I apologise for lifting this from the other thread, but that thread was "intended" to get firm statements of policy (and I do mean firm) from the companies concerned with regard to their presales equipment testing - the lot, inclusions, exclusions (including geographic), in short, the whole deal.

That Barbara couldn't even attend the game and Andrew dropped the ball doesn't really let you off the hook.

In my mind, and possibly others, the quoted sentence appears to offer little in the way of clarity as regards company policy, if there is any such beast.

So, do you want to make some, er, policy, that is?

There's bods here (on DVinfo, me included) that would be interested but haven't seen an O'Conner head in their life and won't ever if you don't loan them one.

Heck, I haven't seen one in 8 years here in NZ. (I'm actually better equipped [Read: I get sick of them drooling over my rig!] than any single crew, whether tv or film, I've seen here in the South Island, not one of them using O'Conner heads. Not saying they ain't here, just that they're keeping a pretty low profile if they are).

So, what say you? Policy, the whole policy, nothing but the policy? Deal?

Might want to up the manufacture rate at the factory, you never know how many new customers might just want a piece of the action. And it's a poor excuse for not loaning out gear, they can't play with it, they won't buy it, pretty simple.

That's where Sachtler and Vinten started mining a rich seam, stack it high, give out freebie testers, watch the sales roll in.

Don't think O'Conner is ever going to be camera supports Wall Mart, but you never can tell. A slight change in the business model, who knows?

A new head for the 0 to 15 lbs range (with a price tag more Toyota than Bentley) might just wipe the others off the planet.


CS

No,

I don't think it is any different to any other head. The drag fluid is simply a high viscosity silicone fluid mixed with trace additives, and is virtually identical to the fluid in Vinten TF heads.

Typically, as with all equipment, it is best to try and keep it warm. At very cold temperature is may feel a but rough at first and need 'warming up' by making a few pans and tilts. Try and keep inside the tent on an arctic shoot for example (if possible) if you want it to perform at its optimum.

The cold will not damage the head (obviously we design for low temp (-40c.) As with all heads it is the grease in the 'off-shelf' bearings that can stiffen up and make it feel a little rough (not the drag fluid or other bespoke designed parts.) Once warm again it will work as new.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Hi Chris,

Indeed the counterbalance note on the other site is definitely incorrect and countermines our most important USP. We didn't help with our naming convention in the 90's! Should have been the 030, 060, 075! Thing is there such well known names now is hard to change them.

Regarding your 'firm policy'...simply put I hadn't spoken about it with anyone. Obviously I carry some influence within my organisation but I cannot make policy decisions without discussing them. Usually if people want to try an OConnor head they go to a reseller and try it out but I agree there is no substitute for trying it with your own kit.

Following our discourse however I have spoken with the Loan and Demo department (that also deal with Sachtler and Vinten.) And they have agreed that they can offer the loan agreement that Sachtler and Vinten do with the OConnor 1030D/DS system.

This is subject to availability (I know stocks are low right now but we have discussed increasing these) and of course to terms and conditions.

Regarding the smaller OConnor head, this is exactly what the DV and 515 were. They were discontinued because when we set the 'Toyota' price there was zero margin in it for us.

If you use the same OConnor architecture with all heads the manufacturing costs are not significantly different. i.e a small OConnor head is not orders of magnitude less than a large one.

This is because number of components and complexity and tolerances of these components have a much larger contribution to cost than simply volume of material and, the number of components is not significantly smaller for the DV (is just a miniture 2575 with a few less springs.)

So the options are to change the drag and balance mechanism to a cheaper one which means it loses the characteristic OConnor feel!

I am open to re-developing these smaller heads because I think the market is right for it and because manufacturing technology improvements may mean we can be smarter with how we do things, however, they would still be a premium price I think, and, it is not OConnor's current priority. Certainly will not see anything for the next couple of years I am afraid.

Kindest Regards,

Steven Turner

Thanks Steve! It's great to have a direct contact into all things O'connor. Speaking for myself, I appreciate your 'lurking around'. : )

Interesting insight into the current video market. I don't have a great deal of experience in DV, but I can see the 'marketplace' seems to be going in the direction of smaller form factor camera platforms. At the same time, everyone is expecting high-end HD 'filmic' results.

With HD resolutions seemingly increasing every couple of years, along with increased resolution HD TVs and monitors, every little bump, hitch and hesitation is noticeable in the final product. This is why I've spent so much time and energy searching for the best tripod and fluid head combination 'I can afford'.

Like many, I hate to 'buy twice'! I'd rather back my ears down and spend the money upfront instead of upgrading after only a short while and ultimately spending twice as much or more in the final tally. I've done it before and it really aggravates me. Almost as aggravating as buying 'premium equipment' and not having it perform 'as advertised'.

You and others have pointed out, a good tripod/fluid head combination is a long-term investment that should outlast several cameras. I agree. Buy once, buy good.

Best regards,

J.

Thanks James,

I certainly think that if someone has a very small camera without all the paraphernalia you could definitely find a smaller support than a 1030D out there. It would certainly be an annoyance to be carrying unnecessary weight if you don't need it.

Cinematography is the total focus for OConnor. We are not interested currently in moving into broadcast, newsgathering etc.

Typically when shooting movies, shorts or drama with a DSLR. The cameras are augmented with other kit (lenses, base plate with rod mountings, matteboxes and filters, remote follow focuses, external batteries, data recorders, monitors or evf's, handgrips and shoulder mounts.) It is to these customers, or customers who plan to be working in this way in future, that the 1030 is aimed at. It then has capacity to also expand to use the same kit list on a slightly larger body digital cinema camera (C300, F3, FS100, Black Magic, etc.)

I was on the set of the US version of Wilfred earlier in year. The whole thing is shot by 4 camera operators each armed with Nikon D800 cameras. All guys have a shoulder rig with all the kinds of equipment above. They also each have a 1030D and sticks and they can take the whole shoulder rig, clip it straight into the top of the 1030, balance it perfectly and continue shooting without the need to disassemble anything.

You could of course, because of the 'down to zero balance,' also simply just have the camera and lens. It is this great flexibility of OConnor heads that have made them the favourite of rental houses in Hollywood.

This is what the 1030D/DS are really made for.

Kindest Regards,
Steve

Something to bear in mind is that anyone using an O'Conner, is, unless they've got considerably more money than sense, a professional who relies on the head practically all day, every day.

As such, their head(s) probably see more use hours in a month than most amateurs and semi pros would rack up in a year or even more.....

CS

Got a kick out of the money vs sense comment. Guilty as charged! Chris has forgotten about us "enthusiasts". I don't see any difference in blowing money on gear I don't make ANY money off of and the guy who goes out and buys a nice boat, for just recreational purposes.

Now, on to the real reason for this post.... I have been wanting to get a higher capacity tripod since buying the FS7 back 18 months ago. I have two set-ups, a Gitzo series 3 Systematic tripod with 75mm bowl adapter and a Sachtler FSB6 fluid head. If I needed a second tripod, I pulled out the crappy Sachtler carbon fiber sticks and put my lightweight FSB4 head on it. The sticks have finally come apart to a point I may never use them again. Not even put to any harsh conditions and they fall apart. Soooooo, I was looking close at a couple of upgrade systems. Either one of the nice Sachtler heads, 7+7 or similar or the Oconnor 1030D or 1030DS. Having read lots of nice comments about the 1030D/DS, I decided to give the 1030D a go. Why not the higher weight capacity of the DS?? Tough one, but I think it will be less of a compromise for me to work on keeping the weight of the FS7 down to 30 pounds than being limited to 60 degrees of +/- tilt angle. Now that the head was decided on, I went looking for the trusty Gitzo sticks. What I wanted exactly is the Extra Tall Series 5 Systematic sticks with 100mm bowl adapter. I've waited and waited and this item has been unavailable for months. Still shows backordered on B&H. So I said to heck with it, and just went with the whole Oconnor set up with their legs. With its 209 pound capacity, I hope I can get double duty out of the legs as a support system for a jib. These are some older threads I have been going through but would still like to thank all of you for taking time to share your opinions on this gear, it helped me take the plunge. Can't wait for it to arrive!

Mark