I am very fond of my C300 but I am getting pushed away from it by the lack of a decent framerate firmware upgrade. I shoot a selection of doc and wildlife with the camera but its lack of flexibility when it comes to higher framerates is meaning I constantly have to think about other cameras.

Come on Canon move with the times and what your users want - 1080 50p and maybe a 100fps at a lower resolution ? Is this too much to ask?

Mat

I would hope that Canon had in mind a potential future firmware upgrade into the world of 1080/50/60p and, lets cross our fingers and hope, that they didn't ship it with hardware that wouldn't be able to shoot these framerates regardless of firmware updates.

Would 1080/50/60 be possible over single link SDI on the C300s to external recorder? That might be a way for canon to offer it.

i think that this new firmware for the c300 (hopefully back any day now) is awesome, takes care of a nice chunk of the camera's shortcomings - except the big one.

i'm with justin on this one and will happily hook up an external recorder for the odd time I would like use faster frame rates (without the reduction in resolution), if it's not possible internally with the current hardware.

So do we know its not possible with the current internal hardware ??

Mat

I watched an old video today containing Rodney Charters that was recorded just after the C300 was announced and he mentioned that Canon sought the advice from pros on the needs of the professional filmmaker and camera man. I wonder if 50/60p was ever mentioned? During the discussion there was a sense that the C300 was designed to take on and better the Sony F3 which didn't originally have 50/60p but now does with a firmware update I believe.

I'm mystified as to why it seems that Canon are not seeing the FS700 has competition. I freelance for a company that owns one and the image it produces is very good so Canon cannot claim victory on that one. I own a C100 and would happily pay for 1080 50p if given the option.

Well I will be jumping ship soon I'm sure. I like the build of the C300 and as a camera for shooting Doc sync its very good but its just not flexible enough to continue with when theres lots of cameras starting to offer more options!

For $14,000, I except a camera to have at the very LEAST 120 fps in full HD. The fact that Canon does not offer this in any of their cinema cameras is unacceptable to me and the lack of high speed is ultimately why I sold my C100. I agree that the Canon EOS cinema cameras have the perfect form factor for documentary, but when you have to carry around two cameras everywhere to get any decent slo mo, that advantage is made much less desirable. When I did my last doc in the middle east, I took two cameras with me everywhere, which not only got heavy and annoying to have to switch out, but also meant that I had more equipment that could potentially get damaged or stolen, not to mention having to risk paying duties when crossing borders and having customs agents seeing two video cameras. MUCH harder to pass as a tourist with two cameras rather than one.

Canon, you make damn good cameras in every way possible except frame rate. I simply don't understand why you willingly choose to stop short in this department. Keep in mind that everything you don't offer will be sought through the help of other brands.

As a C100 and xf305 owner, I agree that I would be hard pressed to pay the extra for a C300 without slo mo. It's annoying enough in the C100 at it's price point. I agree with Omar that if I had to do a significant documentary on the road in a problematic foreign country, I'd try my damndest to carry one camera. If I felt I needed slo mo, it would be a different camera.

I've never even had the desire to film in Slo-Mo so this is really not an issue for me but I can't imagine it would require that much of a firmware re-write to get it fixed for the C300. This issue was one of the biggest complaints when the camera was launched.

We've just had the biggest firmware release since the camera was launched and I wouldn't hold your breath for another one soon. However if they decide to offer full Auto Focus for the C300 I will definitely be interested in that.

What I think, and for me confirmed by Dan Chung's recent interview with Canon Cinema EOS global product manager Yoshinari Onda, is that Canon have a very segmented or conservative view of what features are required for each of their products. They might well think that what they perceived as their core customer base just didn't require these frame rates.

Another issue might well be how their corporate structure operates with very clear divisions between the broadcast and photographic departments and unfortunately the Cinema Eos range of cameras straddles these categories.

Sony seem to be much quicker in responding to customer requests, but then they don't make the C300!

Canon has shown the willingness to upgrade hardware of the C100 for dual pixel AF. So if needed, then take our C300s, upgrade it and give us slow motion at 1080p. And I need the slow motion programmed to be enabled by pressing a button and not through the menu. Carrying two cameras is not physically possible in lot of situations.

I hope Canon is listening.

Yep, programmable one-button slomo would be great, wouldn't it?

Yes that would be a great feature!! It is a complete pain at the moment to go the 720 50 and back again during a fast shoot and very easy to just change to 720 25 and not 720 50 !!

But I'll take the 1080 50p first :-)

I'm not going to write what I've written before on the C300 & SloMo...................alright, 1 last time and if people would just use the search function, they'd find it........Direct from the Canon Engineers who designed and manufactured the C300.......at the time when they started the project (Early 2009), the best "engine" they had was the then new Divic III. By the time the camera came out (Jan 2012), there was the Divic IV but they could not rip out the old engine and stick the new one in. Things don't work that way. They did do extensive interviews with shooters/DPs that bought the camera and 60p and 120fps were/are high on everyone's list. I initially thought they could do a firmware update that could do that but I found out from the engineers that the engine wasn't up to it, so I look forward to the next version of the C300 to include those and more features. When is that going to happen, i don't know but if Canon sticks to their usual cycle, the end of next year would be when a C300 MKII or C300s would show up.
You have to trust me and Chris on this.....Canon here and in Japan religiously read this blog(and others)..... and they know what everybody wants on their camera. Also, the old way to SloMo still works just fine. Shoot in 60i, convert in post to 60p and then percentage up and down for slow or fast motion. And And And......slow motion should not be first on one's list in buying a camera. It should be chip, codec, functionality, and reliability. In lighting alone, the C series cameras will save you time and money. You will use roughly a 1/3 of the lights needed with many other cameras which mean, especially in a narrative situation, more set ups per day. Sell 5 days and get it done in 3! ....... so patience young Skywalker

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

... and yet slow mo is number one on my list right now. I've been looking for a good, affordable high-speed capable camera for two years now. Not a Canon fan-boy but do have lots of Canon glass I'd like to not have to replace. I wonder how many Sony FS700 cameras have been bought for their high-speed. It looks like the obvious choice. Since it's my money, I get to choose what features are most important, if nobody agrees with that, well, "Frankly Charlotte..." Maybe Canon SHOULD get on the ball and put the feature in their cameras already before the fad sputters out.

Mark Watson

I wish the C300 had at least 1080p60 as well. But as Jim points out again, it doesn't and won't. Maybe in the next product cycle...

The current Cinema EOS choices for higher frame rates at full HD or more are the EOS-1D C at about $12k (up to 60p) or the C500 at about $23k plus the cost of an external recorder (up to 60p at 4k and up to 120p at 4096 x 1080).

"And And And......slow motion should not be first on one's list in buying a camera!" - I think as with any camera that depends on what your doing with it! I also wouldn't have bought the camera if it had of been the first thing on my list. But the point remains that at least a 1080 50p offering on this camera would please a lot of their customers, however it was delivered.

Thanks for your response though and if the C300 is really being strangled by its internal hardware I think that is a shame and it will push me away from this camera sooner. Until I see the maths I will remain doudtful they couldn't improve its framerate offerings by playing with bit rates or even using an extrenal recorder. What it does it does well on the whole but this is a frustrating sticking point!

... and yet slow mo is number one on my list right now. I've been looking for a good, affordable high-speed capable camera for two years now. Not a Canon fan-boy but do have lots of Canon glass I'd like to not have to replace. I wonder how many Sony FS700 cameras have been bought for their high-speed. It looks like the obvious choice. Since it's my money, I get to choose what features are most important, if nobody agrees with that, well, "Frankly Charlotte..." Maybe Canon SHOULD get on the ball and put the feature in their cameras already before the fad sputters out.

Mark Watson
Case in point: the FS 700 can do those high frame rates but....the codec is not as good as the C300 (mpeg4 4-2-0 color vs mpeg2 50mb 4-2-2 color broadcast approved), ergonomically, while better than it's predecessor the FS100, still leaves something to be desired, and is not as good/clean in low light as the C300.
All we try to convey here is making sure our clients focus on the day-to-day of production....do the batteries last long, is there good functionality, is everything built in vs. having to buy a bunch of additional stuff, etc.
Production is hard enough with surprises every day so is there something that can help your day, make it easier, make things move faster........that's all

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

BTW, our new, revamped web site is up, Yea!

The FS700 records with the same 4:2:0 codec that the C100 uses. Yup, the C300 codec is nicer.
Like the C100, the FS700 can record the same codec that the C300 uses with an external recorder.
Unlike both the C100 AND C300, the FS700 can also record a variety of 2K and 4K codecs including
4:4:4 and even Raw.

I have used both the C300 and the FS700. This summer I was AC on a pretty big production
working for American Eagle Outfitters. There were 3 video crews using a variety of cameras,
the crew I was AC for was using the C300. If anyone is interested, you can view much of the video shot
at American Eagle Blog (http://www.ae.com/blog). All of the 'Meet the cast' videos as well as the 'Legendary gift' videos were
shot with the C300. Great camera with a great image. But if we ever wanted to do offspeed stuff,
we had to have one of the other crews shoot it with the Epic. The C300 is 'flavor of the month' and
plenty of producers ask for it by name. If you are a rental company, or someone wanting to rent
their gear out on the side, a C300 makes a lot of sense. Next week, I am working on another
shoot using the C300, as I said it's pretty popular.

However, if you are someone who lives 'off the beaten path' you don't have access to rental houses,
and don't give a flip about renting your gear out, and need to choose one or the other to own,
the FS700 is better in my opinion. I run my company myself, and I need to be able to shoot in
a variety of situations, and do a variety of things. One day I may be shooting freelance news for
CNN. The next I may be shooting a pilot for Outdoor Life network. Next, some sit down interviews,
part of a documentary on the Tongass rainforest, some TV commercials, a corporate promo, a
music video, and then wrap things up with some wildlife shooting for my own DVD's and Blu Rays.
The FS700 is really a versatile rig. Slo motion, timelapse (with slow shutter speed), zoom lenses
that use the zoom rocker for when you are shooting news or events, tap screen to focus,
A/B focus pulls where you set the amount of time for the camera to 'rack' focus between two point,
auto focus, face detection, phase detection autofocus with Sony A lenses, auto iris with Sony E
lenses, absolutely great OIS image stabilization with E mount lenses, use Nikon glass with the
Novoflex adapter, use Canon EF glass with the Metabones smart adapter (giving you iris control and
even image stablilization if the Canon lens has that!), even get a near full frame look by
using the Metabones Speed Booster. You can get adapters for cheap old Canon FD lenses,
Minolta lenses, PL mount lenses, pretty much any lens ever made that will cover Super 35mm will
work on this camera. Shoot 2K Raw with continuous high frame rates. Shoot HD or 2K at 4:2:2 or
4:4:4 or shoot 4K compressed with the Odyssey 7Q. Even 4K Raw (including 4K RAW slo motion!)
is possible on the FS700. Dismissing the FS700 as a 'one trick pony' or implying it is only useful for
slo motion, ignores all the other positives it offers.

Again, in my opinion (and it's only one person's opinion) the C300 is an awesome camera. It does
absolutely great 24p and has very nice images. It is 'hot' and lots of production companies want
to rent it. But to me, the FS700 is more versatile. It can just do more things. Yes, you may need
to go to external recorders for the higher quality codecs. But if you do, then, it can SURPASS the
C300 with even higher quality codecs than the C300 offers, and higher resolution too! And you
can't put an external recorder on the C300 and get 120 or 240 FPS or use a speedbooster to get
a FF look. As someone who has used both cameras, it wasn't even that hard of a decision when it
came time for me to buy one.

... and yet slow mo is number one on my list right now. I've been looking for a good, affordable high-speed capable camera for two years now. Not a Canon fan-boy but do have lots of Canon glass I'd like to not have to replace. I wonder how many Sony FS700 cameras have been bought for their high-speed. It looks like the obvious choice. Since it's my money, I get to choose what features are most important, if nobody agrees with that, well, "Frankly Charlotte..." Maybe Canon SHOULD get on the ball and put the feature in their cameras already before the fad sputters out.

Mark Watson

Mark, you do not have to replace your Canon glass. The FS700 works with Canon glass using
the Metabones smart adapter. Gives you iris control and Image Stabilization from the Canon lenses.

Mark, you do not have to replace your Canon glass. The FS700 works with Canon glass using
the Metabones smart adapter. Gives you iris control and Image Stabilization from the Canon lenses.

Gabe,
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this. If Canon was told early on that 120fps was high on the list for the C300 design, yet decided not to include it in that camera and also leave it off the XF-series cameras, then I might wait another year for something new to come out and still end up going with Sony for the high-speed. I was hoping Canon was just taking their time, carefully refining the incorporation of this feature, maybe it's not even on the roadmap for their sub-$30,000 cameras. I tried to rent the Sony from borrowedlenses.com a couple months ago but they don't ship outside the USA, even with a full deposit. Once I find a way to play around with one, I'll be closer to a decision.

Mark Watson

Mark,

Canon very well may be planning to incorporate high frame rates into a new
camera. It will probably be one sweet camera if it is the C300 with a variety of
frame rates. Or maybe they are not planning to do this, it's a total guessing game.
If they do it, I'd wonder what the price point would be, given the current price
of the C300......probably beyond my means, but other people could easily swing
the cost. One thing is for sure, the longer you wait, the better the tech gets....