Sony introduces large-sensor 'high-zoom' Cyber-shot RX10: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/10/16/sony-introduces-large-sensor-high-zoom-cyber-shot-rx10?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=image&ref=image_0_4)

What do you think for weddings ??

nd filter! clickless aperturering! constant f2.8 zoom! :) There is more but that alone is already great.

mic and headphone jack and accessory for XLR balanced input, backlit sensor, etc,etc,
My Black Magic pocket goes on sale as soon as I get this.

Looks great for event work. Everything you need for a 3 camera shoot in a backpack!

This looks like a great little camera going on specs, is there any footage online?

RX10 official release - YouTube

and

RX10 official sample video (24p) ???? - YouTube

The videos are a bit misleading, as if they have something to hide, the first one is not clear if it was all shot on the rx10, my guess is a much higher end camera was used to shoot this, the second video is clear it was rx10 footage but there isn't much variation in footage to have an idea about performance. Will have to wait until the first once are released and some user videos will start to appear I guess.

Since it uses the same sensor as the RX100M2, should give some pretty impressive results.

There's some DVi user produced footage in one of the Sony sections here from the RX100M2. Of course this is an entirely different camera - sorta like the mutant child of the HX300 and the RX100M2, both of which do a pretty decent job on both stills and video.

I'd expect the larger lens and the f2.8 to mean the camera will do fairly well in low light, the RX100 can manually shift shutter to 30 (from "auto" 60), and it is pretty decent until you zoom in and the lens ramp/aperture closes it down. Even so, adding a small LED and you'd be fine. With constant f2.8, I'd expect few worries.

Not too thrilled with the battery Sony chose, and it's pricey, but still looks like a nice camera - the RX100 and M2 were expensive, but produce really excellent results, if the RX10 follows in those steps, it'll probably be a winner.

One RX10 and a couple of RX100M2's, and you'd have plenty of room left in the backpack for LUNCH! Or maybe a PJ/CX series Handy Cam with magic eyeball for faux stedicam shots!

I think we may be competing for who has the SMALLEST, lightest, fastest "kit"!

Noa -
Knowing you're a fan of the "small camera", I think you'll be surprised if you can get your hands on a RX100M2... look at some footage from that camera here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-avchd-camera-systems/519363-sony-rx100ii-durango-silverton-railroad.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-avchd-camera-systems/518792-rx100ii-arizona-biltmore-resort.html

The RX10 will be an extension of the RX100 - and if it lives up to the lineage, it may well be a beast of a camera (better be to justify the asking price!).

About the only "limitation" is that these have a 29 minute clip limit, but I've been dealing with that on other still cameras, it's not a big problem. I still think the active gimbaled stabilizer in the CX/PJ Handy cams will get better "handheld" footage, but having shot with the HX300 at an airshow this weekend along with the RX100M2, I felt like they shot excellent video (and stills too). Didn't feel like I missed anything leaving the dedicated video cams at home, except maybe a little weight.

Is it auto focus on video mode? Or full manual?

Noa -
Knowing you're a fan of the "small camera", I think you'll be surprised if you can get your hands on a RX100M2

I have seen that footage, thing is there always will be something better at the horizon, the rx10 will be a great little camera, I"m sure, but I have already invested in m4/3 camera's and glass and think it will be a better to continue to go down that road, who knows I might get a bmc pocket cam second hand for my personal projects since I"m sure many will sell that cam for this one :)

I really cannot see anyone who has bought a BMCC swapping it for this.

The BMCC shoots ProRes & soon to be RAW & is an interchangeable lens camera.

The RX10 is a bridge camera with sensor smaller than MFT. It's got a nifty looking fixed F/2.8 aperture lens with a 24-200mm FF equivalent zoom range.

Unless you mean that all the cinematographer wannabes will find the reality of using the BMCC so difficult that they will opt for this.

The RX10 does have some very nice looking features for video (step-less aperture change, ND filters). It's cheaper than a Panasonic G6 plus decent zoom lens & all self-contained so while not exactly cheap I can see shooting a whole wedding with two or three of these providing that low light performance is very good (at least up to 5D2 quality) as because of the fixed lens there is no way to improve on F/2.8. It looks like a better bet for professional video than the Panasonic FZ200 but does cost twice over as much.

The reason why I was joking about other people selling the pcoket cam was that since word got out about the new sony camera already 2 users on this forum said they would be selling for this cam, but let's not start a discussion on that as it was not meant seriously.

You can't compare this camera with the g6, just the fact that you can exchange lenses on the g6 opens a whole other world of possibilities that the rx10 doesn't have, in that respect the rx10 is very limited.

The RX10 may be limited in some ways but I I only wish that I had a F/2.8 24-200mm FF equivalent lens fitted to my G6. To get the same range on the G6 I would need two lenses & an extra $2000+. On the other hand the G6 with 14-42mm kit lens is half the price of the RX10 but the RX10 does have ND filters

The sensor is smaller than MFT so the DoF won't be as shallow but provided that the low light performance is good then this could have been a nice alternative to the G6 that I purchased to use as a locked off wide camera albeit the G6 with kit lens only cost half the price of the RX10.

When will this camera hit the streets?

Zebra, three steps of ND, clean HDMI out, clickless aperture, peaking for focus, optional XLR in...

wow.

The G6 has no headphone jack, to get a bunch of equivalent F2.8 lenses to even get close to that range 8X will cost you a fortune, Just that 12-35 F2.8 Panny will cost more than the RX-10 and still has another 130mm to go.I like the fact that it has provision for XLR mic and that I will never have to worry about dust on the sensor. The Zeiss glass at constant 2.8 is a winner. Last week I was seriously looking at the G6 but now, Sony is a game changer for me. Seriously, this camera should have had a battery speed grip available for it like the new Sony A7 and A7r. If I needed the interchangeability of lenses, then the Sony A7 would fit the bill, but I don't think even that camera will ever have a 24-200 F2,8 optic made for it. The only issue is not being able to use fisheye or superwides on it but for those few instances that a fisheye is needed, then I will slap on a Century optic adapter and away I go. Still cheaper than a fisheye lens anyway.

Can anyone confirm if this camera is NTSC/PAL or region specific. The searching I have done points to NTSC only but I did find a spec sheet that mentioned PAL. Time will tell I guess.

Can anyone confirm if this camera is NTSC/PAL or region specific. The searching I have done points to NTSC only but I did find a spec sheet that mentioned PAL. Time will tell I guess.
According to the Sony UK webpage The Cyber-shot RX10 supports both PAL and NTSC movie recording

Sony - Premium performance and portability; Full range shooting from wide angle to telephoto : : News : Sony Europe Press Centre (http://presscentre.sony.co.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=9210&NewsAreaId=2)

Thanks Nigel, thats the same info I was looking at but no reference if this camera is NTSC/PAL switchable.

My reading of the various press releases & reviews is that similar to the Canon DSLRs all frame rates are available e.g. 24p/25p/30p/50p/60p. This is in contrast to e.g. Panasonic who have different NTSC (24/30/60) & PAL (24/25/50) models.

Yeah, thats the info that I'm gathering from the specs also. I have been looking for a small handycam to run around with but I think this one might fit the specs I'm after.

Finally found some specs on the Sony Australian website.

AVCHD - 1,920 X 1,080 / 50fps (28M, PS) Yes
$ 1,499.00
(AUD inc. GST)

Ah, now the price...... It's a bit steep with a fixed lens, oh well it still looks good on spec

In looking around for info on the camera, I've seen it referred to as 60p/24p (indicating NTSC) or 50p/25p (indicating PAL). It would be a nifty feature to have it able to switch between the two specs, but I'd expect it to be one OR the other... the above link with 60/25 is a bit odd?

Considering the features after adjusting to the initial price shock, this is really priced around the same as a high end "Handy Cam", and it's a LOT more camera in many respects. From that standpoint, it's sort of in a market segment all by itself (much like the RX100).

In looking around for info on the camera, I've seen it referred to as 60p/24p (indicating NTSC) or 50p/25p (indicating PAL). It would be a nifty feature to have it able to switch between the two specs, but I'd expect it to be one OR the other... the above link with 60/25 is a bit odd?

Considering the features after adjusting to the initial price shock, this is really priced around the same as a high end "Handy Cam", and it's a LOT more camera in many respects. From that standpoint, it's sort of in a market segment all by itself (much like the RX100).

Dave, perhaps you missed my link to the specifications on the Sony UK website where it clearly states that The Cyber-shot RX10 supports both PAL and NTSC movie recording

Why would you expect it be one OR the other? The Canon DSLRs are world models. It's Panasonic who produce separate PAL & NTSC models. The bonus for separate models is that there is no 30 minute recording limit on the NTSC variant.

Hey Nigel, on the Sony Australian website it makes no mention of NTSC only PAL, so I think these cameras will be region dependant, I could be wrong

The only issue is not being able to use fisheye or superwides on it

And don't forget you can't add on faster primes, something you can on the g6 and you have etc mode as well with hardly any visual loss so any lens you put on can serve 2 focal lengths at faster f-stops. The constant aperture lens on the rx10 is impressive but it remains to be seen how high you can crank up the iso before it turns ugly, also shallow dof will nowhere be near to what other dslr's with larger sensors can achieve with faster primes, including the g6. It will be a great all purpose camera that will be able to handle most situations, but you still would need a exchangeable lens dslr to fill the gaps.

IConsidering the features after adjusting to the initial price shock, this is really priced around the same as a high end "Handy Cam", and it's a LOT more camera in many respects. From that standpoint, it's sort of in a market segment all by itself (much like the RX100).

I suspect this will be the end for the "high end" cx7xx serie handicams which run at the same price, who would get that camera now if you can get this one with far more features?

Noa -

Yep, that may well be the case, and we won't see any more high end Handycams... That market niche was in deep trouble already, with fewer options last year!

You can push the ISO on the RX100M2 quite a way before it's too ugly to use, and drop it from 60 to 30 in shutter priority mode with effective results. I've been experimenting, and the RX100 and HX300 can keep up fairly well with the PJ7xx in low lux mode, which you already know is pretty usable unless you're filming black cats at midnight on a moonless night.

Hmmm, prolly won't have an IR mode on the RX10... but I've got a sneaking suspicion that that big glass up front will bring in a lot of light, could be good... the HX300 has the same small sensor Sony uses throughout their Cybershot line, but that big glass gives it more advantage than I expected... f2.8 on the RX100M2 is quite usable, and it's got a tiny lens relative to what the RX10 is bringing to the party.

Obviously we have to wait for hands on a production RX10, but frankly Sony is fairly predictable when it comes to performance - I'm thinking I may ditch a "backup" 7xx series cam and set the money aside for when the RX10 hits - it doesn't make "sense" if you're trying to compare to an SLR type camera, but starts to add up when you consider it as a small highly flexible video cam that can also shoot high quality stills while being a small "kit". The RX100 and 100M2 are a similar proposition - higher quality results than you expect, from a small package - I was VERY skeptical of that, but hands on quickly impressed me, I wouldn't part with the 100M2, it's a fun camera to shoot with, and almost impossible to get "bad" results out of.



Nigel -

ALL my Sony Cybershots and Handy Cams are ONE OR THE OTHER - so I have pretty good reason to suspect that will be the case, but I've found several references now to 60/50/24, so it may be Sony is getting smarter and opening up to a "world cam"... but I wouldn't count on it...

Sony has for some time had region specific models with different suffixes, that's HISTORY, not speculation... I also believe they have done it to help deter "grey market" channels - it would actually be a bit of a surprise (albeit a pleasant one) if they abandon that long running approach.

The US RX100M2 is 60p/24p... NTSC. I'm sure they have a 50/25 PAL model.

AND the Cybershot and Alphas have ALL have a 29 minute clip length, I believe that is in the announced specs for the RX10. Sony specs have also been known to be "wrong" early in release cycles...

How can anyone say that a camera with this much versatility, features, photo image quality, 20mp sensor, HDMI uncompressed output, video HD recording, Zeiss optics, image stabilization, compactness, incredible zoom range that covers 99% of all mostly used focal lenghts, is a bit too overpriced??
This camera is a true bargain considering that it is fully paid just with one wedding contract alone. Do any of you remember the Sony Betacams SD or the JVC ENG type cameras that weigh a ton ? You needed to mortgage a house to get one, not mentioning the accessories needed to even make them run like thousands in Anton Bauer chargers and belts. What about head clogs and constant servicing costs ? How about the associated decks needed to edit all that tape, remember. Gee, now you have a camera that you can wear around your neck like a tourist and does second duty as a pro instrument to start making some money with instead of accumilating expensive gear.The video quality is far and beyond superior to those. Expensive camera ? only if you do $99 weddings. The only thing I wished this camera had is the ability for lens interchangeability with a few superwides and long teles just to silence the critics.

Is there a way to seamlessly stitch the end of a 28 minute shot to the beginning of the next shot with these cameras? Or to automatically have the camera continue recording when it reaches its 28 minute limit?

I'm absolutely floored that they could shrink a 24-200 2.8 down to a palm sized unit. This will be a great all around, general purpose camera.

The only thing I wished this camera had is the ability for lens interchangeability with a few superwides and long teles just to silence the critics.

The current focal length covers enough for any general purpose, I only wish though I could add a faster lens on it, like a f1.4 but I agree we shouldn't be complaining about the price, especially considering what it does provide, with that small sensor at f2.8 the image might just look like what my cx730 produces which could look too much like "video" due to the lack of sufficient shallow dof. But it will be interesting to see the first user videos to appear again, the camera might surprise us all or maybe not.

This is a very interesting camera. My biggest questions with video shooting are:

1.) Will it allow complete manual and INDEPENDENT control of "gain/ISO" and "shutter speed" in video mode?
2.) How will this camera's "pixel binning" affect moire and high ISO noise?
3.) Will it have true audio level control or just variable automatic gain control?
4.) How about 29.97p?

On question #1, On cheaper Sony cameras, they are notorious for not giving you full manual control of shutter and gain/ISO together. They always give you one but for auto for the other.

CT

Arthur -

I'm probably the one saying "a bit pricey", but as I've further contemplated, if you come at it from the side of a VIDEO camera, it's a bloody BARGAIN, it's just "expensive" if you compare to say the $750 RX100M2, or the many "point and shoot" sub $500 cameras, or even say the many sub $1K SLR options... a lot of still shooters still aren't ready to consider the video "feature" to be worth anything <wink>.

In reality, this pup may represent where image acquisition has been heading for some time - one camera, capable of BOTH high quality stills and video - something I've always "wanted" myself - less "gear" to lug, easier logistics while shooting, but the "secondary" function has always come up short... until recently. The RX10 at least potentially looks "pro" enough and covers both disciplines well enough to represent a breakout camera concept.

Once you consider the RX10 as a "video camera", it starts to look pretty "cheap". It also softens the blow with the RX100M2... again, no need to carry a video camera with such a pocketable "P&S"... Not sure what this all means to Sony's "video camera" division - when a Cybershot eclipses the Handycam line... They better have some serious "consumer" cameras in development!


Warren -

It's pretty much "pick a good spot, double punch the record button" proposition. There will be a resulting "gap" of a few seconds, no way to avoid it. I've shot a few events with this approach - you have to keep your eye on the time so as to do the double punch at a lull in the action, but it's easy enough to align the clips if you're multicam. It MAY be possible to hack the firmware to "auto" continue recording, but there aren't as many people out there "hacking" Sony cameras and it seems to be a it of a slog, so it's better to consider the "factory" features to be what they are...


Noa -

The sensor on the RX is a significant jump in size from the CX/PJ cams... 1" vs. 1/3" "roughly", or more than 4 times the size... apples and oranges really, considering from the "video" side, a 1/2" or 2/3" sensor is considered "big" and "professional level" (see again my comment on price above...). F2.8 constant should be a joy to work with - I tried the FZ200, and that was one thing that was NICE (many good features, I just didn't like the look of Panasonic colors/skin rendering). Put that 2.8 on the RX sensor, it SHOULD be "magic".

I'm sure there are front threads on the lens, probably easy enough to add a lens adapter like we've always done on our video cameras when we needed "just a little more" (though might not be a good idea to hang a heavy adapter on a lens with long extension...).

The "out of the box" lens range will probably cover MOST of the needed range - an 18-200 is what I typically have on my SLT's. And don't forget that the camera has the "clear zoom" (AKA digital doubling), so if you can accept a little bit of degradation in the image, you're really talking about a 400mm... and a likely still usable image... it does have other "digital multiplier" options I saw on the spec list (yes, heresy, but in a pinch...). Considering that the processor is reading the entire sensor, it's quite possible that the "digital doubling" won't even degrade that much. I had to get well into the "D" zoom range while testing the RX100M2 before things really fell apart, "C" (clear zoom) was acceptable, if not "perfect", and this was in so-so lighting conditions. The RX10 will have the advantage of the large glass, the f2.8, and whatever new tricks Sony stuffed into the Bionz X processor, so unless they really screw up, I think it's a winning combination.

Cliff -

I would presume that the same as the RX100/100M2 you have FULL manual control, everything is accessible, and mostly adjustable while recording. Not crippled at all, in fact it takes a while to figure out how to get to everything (small camera and all), but it's "hyper" adjustable... auto works fine while you sort it out...

Again, from the RX100M2, it's fairly well controlled with noise up to at least 800 ISO, usable above that if needed, it breaks up relatively nicely past that, and haven't seen any issues with moire, but haven't set out to try to push the limits on it either....

May have to wait for the manuals on the RX10 to find out how much audio control we get.... it's very limited on the 100... I'd expect more on the RX10, since you get Headphone and mic jacks and can add an audio block.

30p is not listed in any of the specs, and don't recall seeing it on any compact Sony I've run across - I'd expect to use 60p and render it out to 30p if needed.

A Dutch store allready has it listed for preorder with sales starting from November, it costs 1200 euro, same price as the Sony HDR-PJ780.

The RX10 may be limited in some ways but I I only wish that I had a F/2.8 24-200mm FF equivalent lens fitted to my G6. To get the same range on the G6 I would need two lenses & an extra $2000+. On the other hand the G6 with 14-42mm kit lens is half the price of the RX10 but the RX10 does have ND filters

The sensor is smaller than MFT so the DoF won't be as shallow but provided that the low light performance is good then this could have been a nice alternative to the G6 that I purchased to use as a locked off wide camera albeit the G6 with kit lens only cost half the price of the RX10.

And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes.

Fran

"And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes. "

Where did you get/hear that from ?
Everyone I asked said there is a limitation, unless it is is the specs somewhere.

Just found it on the blogs. You're right.

I noticed on the FZ200 that it didn't have a time limitation (also notable on the HS/slo-mo 120 fps mode!) - If I had to guess, it appears that Panasonics "legal department" reviewed the differences between EU laws and US laws and decided to no longer "cripple" the video function in that quirky and arbitrary way for cameras destined for NTSC countries (basically the US and Canada).

I would think Sony could (should!?) follow them on that "feature" easily enough, but in practice the 29 minute clip limit hasn't proven to be a big problem. An annoyance, perhaps, but you just have to be aware of it and do the double punch thing when needed... IF Sony were to remove the limit, I do believe the Handy Cam line would become a vestigial tail entirely...

Reviewing footage shot with the HX300 and RX100M2, I don't see anywhere where a CX/PJ would have offered significant improvement, save perhaps a more stable image due to the magic eyeball... and the CX/PJ stills would never match the quality from the HX and RX. Between the squeeze from cell phones and now still cameras that are very capable of shooting good video, we may be witnesses to the "end" for dedicated video cameras?

If one really needs to use those fast primes for the out of focus look, then Sony also has the A7 that allows interchangeable lenses with full frame. A lot of nice pics of it can be seen here:
Sony Alpha 7 and 7R hands-on (http://www.engadget.com/gallery/sony-alpha-7-and-7r-hands-on/1269808/#!slide=1269907)

I know I will be getting one as soon as a couple of jobs are done with the RX10. I have a few really great primes from my film era that I am just itching to try on that A7 namely my Summilux M 50 F1.4 and a Nikkor 135 F2.

And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes.

Fran
If you purchase your PAL G6 from the right place (like I did) it doesn't have the 29'59" limit either.

With the high quality HDMI, recording to an external recorder would be good for long form recording as long as the camera did not shut off automatically !! Remote control from a smart phone or tablet and a remote recorder with a long HDMI cable would make it really attractive for semi unattended shooting.

Ron Evans

There are several samples starting to appear, unfortunately from users that don't know what a tripod is or how to expose right (all sample videos are overexposed), but below one shows best how sharp the image is and I also don't see any signs of moire.

Sony DSC RX10 video sample 3) - YouTube

I think this camera will be the perfect point and shoot hanydcam that I have been looking for.

That CZ lens alone is worth the price. Canon and Pana have to come up with something fast. This is getting interesting.

I saw a couple of "interesting" things in the menu review from that reviewer... and the clickless aperture in another of his videos looked like a real handy feature - notably, I didn't hear any zoom motor noise either... looks like there is a LOT of video "DNA" cooked into this camera. Shipping looked to be in early Dec... why does that suddenly seem like a long time? It would be nice to see some footage shot by someone who doesn't swing the camera around like a drunken sailor and knows how to control a Sony camera for optimal footage.

Shot more casual family footage today with the RX100M2/HX300 combo... the additional zoom of the RX10 would have been nice to have... having additional optical zoom in the HX300 got the shots (OK, so it goes to 1200mm... but 200 optical to 400 in clear zoom would have been "enough" most of the time) where the RX100 just didn't have the reach... and f/2.8.... yeah, that'll be the ticket! I still like the two cameras as a complementary "package", but the RX10 will cover an awful lot of the ground and add some new tricks.

I know the FF A7 and A7r were the "big story" announcements, but this little cam is quite a bit more interesting (and relatively affordable compared to putting together a new E mount FF "kit"!).

People are claiming this is the end of the high end handycam market. Only if it records in autofocus. I for one would be considering it as an unmanned b-cam. But it would have to have autofocus. Is that likely?

Also, why in the hell would you do sample footage of this camera and not shoot at 2.8? It has nd filter built in. Show us 2.8 and low light!!

Of course it has auto focus. And a really fast one too using piezo technology. It autofocuses in Photo AND Video mode as you are shooting. Low light capability should really be amazing as it has a backlit sensor design in it. This thing is going to sell like crazy. All my other cameras are going up for sale,

Want to see something done by a experienced user, current footage available doesn't look very good.