I've recently received a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and have decided it is not the camera for me. Is there anywhere on this forum to sell it? Would rather it go to a buff than to an eBay auction. I've searched the forums and can't find an appropriate category and don't want to breach any protocols by posting it directly here.

Thanks

Mark

Have you checked out the classified section on the forum here?

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/private-classifieds/

Hey, I would really like to know what you do not like about the BMPC.

Doh. Thank you Chris. Totally missed that.
And to Ron - it's got a beautiful picture but best suited to totally controlled environs in my view. I shoot a lot of run and gun. The lack of auto iris and a menu buried colour balance is unnerving me.

Mark

Thank you Mark that information is very helpful.

Yes, the BMPCC is very much a cinema camera, not an ENG camera. So did you sell it yet?

Yes Dave, very much so. An odd beast. Demands constant attention but makes adjustment difficult to execute in my experience. Fine when you can call 'action' and 'cut'. Its an exciting camera but I'm sure I will be too anxious using it in critical moments. Still looking for a small cam for b roll documentary style. Thinking GH3 or Canon 70d now.

I messed up the add last night by not including the required prefix. Fixed and up now. -http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/private-classifieds/519416-black-magic-pocket-cc.html#post1816433

Hey Mark. I'm waiting for my BMPC 4k. Looks like it'll be around Christmas before they are available though. Just talked to my vendor who yesterday spoke with BMD. Anyway, I love my hacked GH2. You might consider one since they are still a great camera and considerably cheaper than a GH3 or 7D.

Mark - I have both the BMPCC and the GH3, and for large sensor run and gun, the GH3 is definitely the winner.

That said, I have the GH2 also, and the lack of a headphone jack is a real problem (unless you want to carry a recorder or an external preamp around). The 70D has the same challenge.

Cheers and good luck,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Would agree. Had one and sold it. I'm not into small sensors, they shake too much. The ISO is really high, so you need a ND filter to stop it down in sunlight. Not sure what's up with that. It was a cool camera though.

I guess I look at it very differently.
Run and Gun. The video I've seen from Phil Bloom and Paul Moon is run and gun. Shooting handheld in available light in places that would normally require permits for bigger cameras.

Auto Iris. It works for me with lenses that support it like my Lumix 12-35.
In video mode press the iris button and it averages the light and sets the iris.
In film mode (which I'd use typically) it lowers the iris to make sure the hightlights don't hit zebras which you can set between 75 and 100.

Small sensor and shake? I'm not sure what that means. Most would consider this a large sensor. It's micro four thirds. Yes it's smaller than full frame like Canon 5D or APS-C like Canon 7D but it's larger than handy cams and even 2/3" shoulder mount ENG cameras. The sensor has nothing to do with "shake." The camera is actually pretty good with Lumix Optical Image Stabilizer lenses.

White balance. Yes just presets. That's because they're only ballparks. The codecs are designed to be graded in post and that's where you fine turn the white balance. This can mean a longer post workflow to grade the shots but it's also a much better robust codec than found in DSLR most of the time (H.264) which can't hold up to heavy grading. You could say this is a "painter's" camera because it's designed for a lot of image and looks control in post. That does require extra work. That doesn't hinder my shooting though.

High ISO requiring ND filters? The camera's ideal is 800 ASA. It goes up to 1600 and down to 200. Sort of like a gain control. The need ND depends on the lens and shooting conditions. You can always stop down if you're not looking for shallow depth of field.

ND helps when you're opening up for shallow depth of field and need to prevent the highlights from blowing out... which is much easier to deal with in this camera than all but the most expensive "cinema" cameras since it has 13 stops of dynamic range. This means you can expose to the right (the highlights) and bring things down in post, further avoiding noise in the video. Additionally a Vari ND gives you a bit more flexibility than a built in ND with just three settings since you can make much finer adjustments. With step up rings, you can use the same Vari ND with all your lenses. True you have to change it when you change lenses... but with a good zoom, you don't have to do that too often if you're running and gunning.

I goth this camera precisely because I can use it and use it EASILY in places I can't bring my Sony EX1 because it's too big (I can get stopped by security and too heavy to hand hold).

Paul Moon shot this hand held. That Grand Central Station shot was hand held riding down an escalator. All "run and gun" He shot across the NYC Subway platform zoomed and handled. I can't imagine doing that with any ENG style camera.

He notes:
True to the elegant simplicity of the BMPC, I shot the entire piece handheld, using a single lens (Panasonic 12-35mm, continuous f2.8 aperture, optically stabilized H-HS12035

New York City | Breaking in the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera on Vimeo

Run and Gun. The video I've seen from Phil Bloom and Paul Moon is run and gun.

Run and gun means for me that something is happening, you switch on the camera and right after you press record you start changing focus, iris or iso to a constantly changing environment which could be going bright outside to dark inside shooting a subject from a further distance back to a close up and using the zoom to reframe in one go.

The videos you mention first all settings have been set right and then the rec button is pressed, that's not run and gun but shooting in a controlled environment.

What I described you can't do with a bmc pocketcam or a gh3 but you could with a small handicam like a sony cx730 and get a perfectly usable continuous shot where all is in focus, exposed right and very stable.

Noa, for what you describe as run and gun is what I'd use my Sony EX1 for. I also have a Canon Vixia. Keep in mind that for many years news crews had no problem shooting footage in the middle of wars with 16mm film cameras with less automatic control than the Pocket camera.

Even with my Sony EX1 and my Sony PD-170 before it, I never used auto iris or auto focus because I'm much more accurate with my hands. In my experience, full auto will ruin as many shots as they help. The Pocket cam, with the right Lumix lens gives me push iris and push focus as I note above, which I have used with my small sensor ENG type cameras.

There's absolutely nothing "controlled" about shooting in NYC subway with Police and Homeland Security will stop you before you set anything up with any camera larger than a Vixia... or Pocket camera. It would also be about the worst environment to shoot full auto. At least with Pocket I can fix the color temperature and lighting in post without breaking the codec. In fact I'd argue that the Pocket camera is the best small fix it in post camera on the market and fix it in post is common for messy run and gun video.

With controlled I mean you first prepare your camera and then start to shoot, that's not what I understand by run and gun, if anything unexpected happens you have camera's that will allow you to continuously get the shot, the pocketcam is not such a camera.

I don't need any setup for the Pocket cam with Lumix lens. It's tiny. Lens on and ready to go. Turns on in an instant. Grab focus ring and I'm shooting. The only thing it doesn't have is constantly changing auto focus, auto iris, auto white balance, things I never use. I even turn those off in my Vixia. I don't want that stuff changing when someone walks in front of me or as I pan it past a nearby poll while shooting something a bit further.... just a Paul Moon did in the NYC Subway.

If you are honest you can't really mean that a pocketcam out of the box is a run and gun camera, my gh3 and g6 with my lumix lenses offer more controll then the pocket cam does and yet I wouldn't call those run and gun camera's either, My nex-ea50 and even more my small cx730 handicams are much closer to run and gun camera's from personal experience, I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one :)

Interesting conversation. No, I would not chose to use my Pocket camera for run and gun shooting, generally. While the image stabilization built into the lens I have, the Panasonic 14 -140 is better than none it doesn’t even come close in effectiveness to various other cameras I have including a Sony HX20v which is also very small, very unobtrusive and the auto functions work extremely well. I will say, however, that the ability to hold a camera steady while hand-held and on the move is an operator specific capability and some folks are clearly better at it than others. Nevertheless, generally speaking the shaky footage I get using the Pocket while on the move is essentially unwatchable while in similar circumstances the HX20v footage is at least OK.

I would not call Paul Moon’s ‘New York City’ run ‘n gun but rather hand-held. I reckon I could do as well if not better using the HX20v. Not sure I could get the color he got. Not sure I’d want to but that’s stylistic choice and fair enough. In my opinion hand-held is OK (only just) with the Pocket camera while run ‘n gun is not. But let’s not quibble over definitions – just to clarify run ‘n gun for me means the camera is hand-held with the holder very much on the move while shooting.

Using a cinema camera for run ‘n gun generally makes little sense to me (presuming one has a choice of gear). When making a movie the director has all kinds of gear that he/she can use to move the camera around. Shaky video, other than perhaps war zone shooting, is generally undesirable.

I must say the comment ‘no problem shooting footage in the middle of wars with 16mm film cameras’ made me smile. If we are talking front line action with bullets flying all around and grenades exploding right and left I have to believe just staying alive was problematic let alone fiddling with camera controls. No personal experience mind you. I’ll pass on that:-)

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review
A Broadcaster's Perspective
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review by Brian Hallett (http://provideocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/the-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-review)

If I was a photojournalist or someone who was out running and gunning a ton.. then this camera would be in my pocket. ACTUALLY, I am one of these types and I'll very likely buy one soon!

So I guess broadcast journalists and I must be wrong.

If he says it, it must be true.

It's true for some of us and that's the point.
It's a quite capable run and gun camera for those of us who never consider using auto anything in a professional shoot even as journalists.

With MFT size sensor it's easy enough to have deep focus and track by hand. It's harder with APS-C s35 size type sensor.

Well. Craig, if you are going to run and gun a lot then sooner or later you are going to trip and fall over just trying to read the screen and smash the Pocket in the process, and therefore you will need a backup camera. I was about to drop significant dollars on an EVF for the Pocket but then yesterday I read the specs on the new Sony RX10. Guess what; I do believe my Pocket camera might be for sale!

I do believe my Pocket camera might be for sale!
Send it my way! :) First time I hear about the rx10, looks promising.

Promising indeed! Three axis image stabilization, 422 uncompressed out, decent audio monitoring, the list is as long as it is impressive. It won’t fit in my pocket but then the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera doesn’t either, not with the Pany 14-140 lens attached, not that it matters to me.

I wonder how many stops of dynamic range the RX10 delivers:-)

In my short experience with the BMPCC I really didn't see myself making a good use of it's "cinematic" IQ if I had had to run and gun. The stabilization even with the latest Panasonic lenses was not very effective. Years behind the system in the Sony RX100/100 Mk2 compact cams for example. The LCD screen was hard to see in outdoor light, making judging exposure and peaking difficult. The screen didn't tilt meaning I had to keep it more or less at the eye level most of the time severely limiting the camera's maneuverability etc.

Maybe it's only me but I think to get the most out of this camera you need to have a bagful of supporting equipment including the audio. Then what good is it to have a tiny, compact camera when the form factor and recording capability beg for a whole set of supporting equipment. The design not only looks like a pocket still camera but the ergonomics is also like one.

Then what good is it to have a tiny, compact camera when the form factor and recording capability beg for a whole set of supporting equipment.

To lighten the load is why I went for the Pocket (versus the BMCC). After seeing the early footage I didn’t see myself using it for any shooting other than on a tripod with supporting audio gear where I need audio, hand-held in a pinch when not moving whatsoever.

I agree with you; your observations are in line with my experience too. It is not an easy camera to work with, especially outdoors. The imagery produced is very nice but the ergonomics are certainly not great.

Mind if I ask a question?

I'm thinking of getting one or two of these cameras to be used on a tripod (well, actually on a light stand) as a second and maybe a third camera for symphony orchestra recording. Main camera, manned, on tripod at rear of hall (my trusty JVC 110) and the pocket camera (or cameras) up close and high on stage each covering half the orchestra in sort of an X-Y setup to provide close-ups of sections/soloists, locked down for the duration of the concert. Sound of course dual system using Schoeps mics into Sound Devices mixer/recorder.

Final output to be in 720p, maybe doing some "zooming/panning" of the onstage cams in post

Based on your experience, how do you think the pocket cam would perform in this kind of "non-ENG" usage? I know I would need to use large memory cards (maybe swap at intermission) and external power feed.