I think everyone should just start calling themselves cinematographers ... because I kid you not, i've seen a shed load of businesses where they combine ordinary videography with the odd 1 or 2 DSLR shot thrown in and these guys claim they are cinematographers.

To the regular bride/groom THEY ARE. And these companies that i've been watching are getting loads of business as they are regularly posting new videos online.

In my opinion the word 'cinematographer' is something that's just replaced the word videographer because these DSLR fan boys needed a easy way to describe their new large sensor video footage to average joe on the streets.

I still don't have the balls to call myself a cinematographer. I always say i'm a videographer but film in a contemporary cinematic and documentary style. So you get a mix of both. Because essentially that's what I do ... I try and get my large sensor beauty shots with depth of field etc but then have important stuff with focus everywhere using a proper video camera. So it's the best of both worlds.

In my opinion the word 'cinematographer' is something that's just replaced the word videographer because these DSLR fan boys

Ha. ZING!

Not to start a row... but...

DSLR does kind of give a bit of DOF like what you'd expect to see at...

the cinema.

Its a pretty good way to describe the effect.

Some people want 'cinematic'.

as opposed to a 90's low budget soap look...

...ZING


Like I said before on this thread. Words develop, and their meaning changes depending on people's perseption.

Not many people use the word gay to mean happy anymore.

lets not dictionary bash. Or job is to understand the consumer, and figure out what they want, even if it means decyphering their choice of words.

END OF

DSLR does kind of give a bit of DOF like what you'd expect to see at...

the cinema.

I agree, add a bit of glidecam action to that and you are a cinematographer to your clients.

I still can't do it - I know and work with a number or 'real' cinematographers and I feel like I'd be denigrating their knowledge and expertise. I think you can turn the situation around and explain how using the term is a sign of inexperience not expertise

When it comes down to accurate meanings there are plenty of other "terms" that are not as they seem too!

"Professional" simply means that you are doing it for money ..it doesn't mean you are good! In fact as long as you charge a fee you are a professional ..good or bad.

There was an article a while back also about whether one is a professional, an expert or a specialist but all three don't have to mean a stunning end product or even an acceptable one.

In the same context I guess we could quite easily have good, mediocre and even terrible cinematographers? I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Chris

Just me, personally, I have been too hung up on titles, but as a business owner, I realize words convey an image in marketing my business.

About 10 years ago clients told us that our wedding videos were more like a movie than a wedding video, so we started using the phrase Artistic Wedding Cinematography as a way to describe and market our "wedding videos".

I think it's interesting that in some industries, like the news, a "photographer" is the camera operator, but in weddings, a "photographer" is the person who takes pictures. We all know that a "news photographer" is different than a "wedding photographer", much like a "cinematographer" is different than a "wedding cinematographer".

Do filmmakers have to use film? Do "wedding cinematographers" have to direct a crew on a film/movie set? I certainly do not consider myself a film/movie cinematographer, but when it is within my control, I do make the decisions and direct my crew on camera placements, movement, lenses, lighting and audio.

I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Actually I have a photographer friend who has changed the second word in her business name from 'photography' to 'photographics'. I guess fancier words means people think you're more knowledgeable?

Somehow the word "video guy" sounds a lot better than "cinema guy", when being called out by the bride. Perhaps we've been in this business too long and got accustomed to that callout. " Where's that video guy, he should of' been here already."
I just had to put that in.!

When it comes down to accurate meanings there are plenty of other "terms" that are not as they seem too!

"Professional" simply means that you are doing it for money ..it doesn't mean you are good! In fact as long as you charge a fee you are a professional ..good or bad.

There was an article a while back also about whether one is a professional, an expert or a specialist but all three don't have to mean a stunning end product or even an acceptable one.

In the same context I guess we could quite easily have good, mediocre and even terrible cinematographers? I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Chris

Your right on Chris! Back in the 80's the American Association of Magazine Photographers (I think it was them) came up with a definition for Professional Photographer. They decided that to qualify as a pro, at least 50% of your annual income had to be from taking pictures.

Also, to become a member of Canon Professional Services, not so many years ago, you had to submit "tear sheets" along with your application. Tear sheets are pictures you had published in magazines or other printed media. If you were not a published photographer you were not considered a pro by many people. Now a days Canon inventory's your equipment purchases for qualification.

Does anyone know of any such standards for us video guys besides a union card? Just curious.

Steve

There are no standards in this video or should I say cinematography business, especially in the wedding/event category. The best is a business card with the name of a video association one is a member of. This I am convinced of. One just goes to a camera store, picks up a few accessories with a DSLR, reads the instruction booklet, prints a batch of business cards with the "cinematographer" classification under the name and off they go advertising their expertise while taking potential clients away from the real pros that have worked hard to keep their reputation over the years. One does not have to take qualifying courses to be behind the camera and get the certification of a pro.

Hey Arthur,

I understand your point but I don't worry about those guys. I have been at this for many years. I charge more than low budget hacks so I don't have to compete with them. I have clients that I call refugees. They tried going with the lowest bids and then came back to me glad to pay my fees because they got burned.

To me, the sad part is not the guys just starting out. Everyone has to start someplace. The real problem is that our economy is driving fees down because real pros are cutting rates just to get work. Everyone needs to eat and even corporate budgets are tight!

Steve

"The real problem is that our economy is driving fees down because real pros are cutting rates just to get work"

I know of many studios, photo and video business that either closed down or went to a home operation because of the overhead costs to maintain a commercial location. I know of 3 photo studios that used to average 100+ events a year 100+ video and 100 photo+,, charging reasonable, not cheap rates, that due to low ball competition were forced to either cut staff or lower their prices. I hear it all the time that maintain service and quality and don't budge on the pricing. That may work in some areas of the country but here in the northeast, it don't work that way. Granted, there are a few that are are still sticking to their guns but in reality I don't think they have over 30 events a year like that, I have been talking to a lot of videographers lately and the story from them is all the same. Couples don't want to or have the budget for a photo/video package like before. They don't even want a printed album anymore, the video cut down to a re-cap or highlight DVD without a full day coverage. Pricing average here for a full day coverage with editing is around $1200 give or take 100. In photography, without any printed matter, just a DVD of hi res JPG's is around $800 to 1000. I have long forgotten the days that I used to ask for $2500 for video shot on SD and delivered on VHS tape. And I used to get my price without any haggling. Funny thing is when you ask a stranger videographer how's business, they always say great and when you ask how many events they do and their average pricing, they make you feel like an undercharging peddler. Truth is, one needs to eat, I could otherwise sit and wait for the high rollers to sign and stick to my prices, but those clients are more few and far between. I may starve before the next one passes by.