One could look back to the FX1 and Z1U to get the analogy for the AX1 and Z100, the FX1 was branded as a Handycam because it lacked XLR inputs and the Z1U had PAL/NTSC switching. I'd be surprised if the AX1 has PAL/NTSC.

I'm pretty certain a new sensor is coming down the pipe with a camera developed around it. A 2/3'' single sensor Fixed lens using BP-U perhaps? You can't fit a prism nor is it possible to make a prism that has 4K resolving resolution for 2/3'', so a 2/3'' that de-bayers to exactly 2160 lines resolution could be what's next. Panasonic is doing it first, so I wouldn't doubt Sony would be far behind.

The FDR-AX1 has 60, 50, 30, 25, 24 speeds so does cover the range of PAL/NTSC. I think you are missing a range out with just quoting the FX1 and Z1 as there was the AX2000 and NX5U that appear to be the basis of these new 4K models with the AX2000 in this case having XLR's but missing some other features from the NX5U like picture profile details etc, next in the lineup after the tape based HDV cameras and now the 4K family. I too think the NXCAM family will be restricted to AVCHD camera and likely top out with the NX30U as I expect the NX5U to be discontinued as there will be little point with the FDR-AX1 when it has AVCHD covering all the bases. I see the PXW-Z100 as the poor mans F5/F55 or as a B camera to those high end cameras. When the firmware upgrade comes so that the PXW-Z100 could operate as a FDR-AX1 spec too it would be a really nice camera with a great range of features. XAVC 10bit, XAVCS 8bit and AVCHD why would anyone look at the NX5U, PMW100 or the PMW160 ? I would not be surprised to see Sony come out with 4K versions of the NEX EA50 and the VG30 ( they are really the large sensor cousins to the AX2000 and NX5U ) to cover the low end large sensor market with XAVCS versions leaving the FS700 for the high end NEX.

Ron Evans

NOTE WELL: no, this is not going to provide a 'wifi EVF', but it does provide a sort of Camera Control Unit,

Why cannot a good HD tablet be used as EVF, Matt? Of course for monitoring only, but still much better than another field monitor...

Piotr

Has Sony R&D moved completely into XAVC 4k now? (Are they "finished" with HD?)

Will the PMW300 go down in history as Sony's very last 1920x1080 XDCAM camera? (And the NX30 for NXCAM?)

Is Sony's intent to let the current HD models just fade out one by one?

Are they "finished" with HD?

Noooooo!

Of course, they need to signal that they like the XQD card format to record MXF data onto, and that 4K is the new HD, but it seems to be following the 'HDV' trajectory. The Z100 is a Bellwether - the sheep you put a bell onto so that other sheep follow it. The Bellwether has understood the way things work, the way things are going, all the Strength/Weakness/Opportunity/Threat stuff from its own ("unique") perspective.

The other side of the Z100 is it does very strong 4:2:2 10 bit HD. It will ("soon") embrace AVCHD as its proxy format. This tells me that Sony - at this level - are seeing AVHCD as a 'DV' sort of thing, There are versions of XAVC which will be functionally kissing cousins to XDCAM-EX - 1080 35 and 50 mbit XAVC - that will feel functionally identical.

We are entering a moment of flux like we did with HD. The Z100 is also firmly planted into the HD market, and I guess this will continue for the next half decade or so. Who's making 720p a big thing at the moment? Nope - but FWIW the Z100 will do 720p on AVCHD on that firmware upgrade.

I think the future may look like AVCHD for the consumer models, XAVCS and AVCHD for the prosumer/consumer crossover models, XAVC/XAVCS/AVCHD for the low end pro models and XAVC for the high end. For small and larger sensors. Essentially the same codec in slightly different forms for the whole lineup from Cybershots to the high end !! Will be interesting to see if the PXW-Z100 SDI can feed an Odyssey7Q . Would be a nice package with large SSD rather than XQD cards. Jack may be correct in thinking there will be a ½” family replacing the EX1/3 but I think they may be single chip versions to go with the trend , with much the same recording spec as the PXW-Z100 which would be nice too. Life of the PMW100, PMW160 and PMW200 would be even shorter than the NX5U !!

Ron Evans

I finally got to see a 4K monitor in Best Buy (video shot on an F65, I think). I was floored! I'll take 4K resolution, even if dynamic range and sensitivity is lost on a 1/2.3" chip. For $6,500, you can't have it all.


Glen, what are going to deliver on! :) When I watched some 4k at Fry's the other day I was not floored. It looked very nice and you could walk up close to the TV and it did not pixelate. But at normal viewing distances it did not look that much better than my television at home. Certainly not so much to be an early adopter.

Give me dynamic range and light sensitivity. Resolution is a gimmic that you the viewer adapts to and focuses back on content after the glow fades away. I do not want cameras that are a bit crippled just to give more pixels. It is just too early for me. Heck, I can not find a good preview monitor larger than 5-7" that is even 720p! what are folks going to do with 4k??

As far as HD going away!!!? Seriously, this is just the type of conversation Sony wants flying around internet forums. HD is not going away. All television is 720p or 1080i and that will not change for a long time. People still want DVDs of what I shoot. Where does 4k fit into this universe? I agree with Gabe.

Just as a 'By The Way'...

4K is not just about resolution. Thankfully.

Rec709 - the HD standard - is 20 years old, when CRTs were the norm. 4K's standards - the BT2020 and the rest - take a long look forward. That specifically means contrast (beyond 5 stops), and colour range (Digital Cinema Initiatives's P3 colour space and beyond).

There's talk from the 4K world that HD filmed at 4:2:2 and 10 bit looks far FAR better than 4:2:0 or even 4:2:2 8 bit.

And don't get me started on Aspect Ratios... LOL

So, 4K is not just about resolution - there's that but it's not exclusive. It's also about colour range (P3), colour resolution (4:2:2 and beyond) and bit depth (10 bits per channel, no less). YOu have to factor that in to your choices about filming now in HD.

As far as HD going away!!!? Seriously, this is just the type of conversation Sony wants flying around internet forums. HD is not going away. All television is 720p or 1080i and that will not change for a long time. People still want DVDs of what I shoot. Where does 4k fit into this universe? I agree with Gabe.

+1 on that, Tim - of all my classical music recordings, we're only printing/selling DVDs with the HD version just burned to a few BDs, for personal use...

While this would not be an interesting offer for professional videographers, a "serious hobbyist" like me would love to be offered a complete system to assess whether I can afford entering the 4K world. The camera is just a beginning; add the media, all new computer with a QHD monitor for efficient editing, and at least a 65" UHD TV - I don't think many of prosumers would even think of beginning the early adopters at the moment...

My interest in 4K is to crop a HD image. Just like I did with HDV when it came out and cropped to SD. Did that for over two years with my FX1 before the other cameras I got were AVCHD small Handycams. Then went all 16x9 and eventually Bluray for my archive only. I don`t see creating a 4K finished project for many years but am really interested in using for cropping as when I did this with the FX1 it was great. So. No need for 4K monitor or any other 4K stuff as the output will go straight to a HD project as an oversized file, will get archived for the future. Until I can get a 4K handycam and repeat what I did with the FX1 all projects will be just HD. The FDR-AX1 is a nice replacement for my NX5U and since it is almost the same I will be able to use all the batteries, controllers etc I now have for the NX5U. Just wished it had AVCHD record from day one. Looks like that may have to wait until 2014 firmware update then it will completely replace the NX5U !!!

Ron Evans

Ron, I wouldn't spend $6,000 on a 4K camera (full of compromises as the Z100 is) only to crop the picture for HD. The only reward for all those compromises - WOW factor - is gone with such limited application...

I am not looking at the PXW-Z100 but the FDR-AX1. $4500 or less. About the same as I paid for my NX5U a few years ago. Data rate is too high on the PXW-Z100 to be of use to me until it has LongGOP next year then that would make it just like the FDR-AX1 is now !!! HD with XAVCS is higher quality than AVCHD so is a reasonable replacement.

Ron Evans

Another interesting thought about the Z100 and XAVC,....

The bitrates, bit depth and 4:2:2 sampling are very aggressive in 4k. And, in looking at the HD XAVC specs? They are also very, VERY strong as well. (even the consumer Handycam version does 50Mbp/s, 8bit 4:2:0?)

If I were Atomos, Convergent Design or AJA, I'd be very concerned about the future need or market for outboard recorders. In-camera XAVC might literally be the only thing you would want for 4:2:2 10 bit.

XAVC and whatever CODEC Panasonic creates to compete could break these little companies. (Or force them into making completely different products)

The next 2-3 years is going be HUGE!

Between Sony, Panny and Cannon, I would expect at least 2-4 brand new 4K camera models by next summer. (Not counting any CES consumer 4K cameras next January)

CT

I don`t think they should worry too much. Even with 2 64G XQD cards the PXW-Z100 will only record for a about 25mins at 4k 60P and at a cost of maybe close to $800 for the fast cards. A Odyssey and 2x 256G SSD will record for a much longer time and give you a nice monitor as well. Until there are low cost 128G XQD cards I think the outboard stuff will win easily. Will the SDI from the PXW-Z100 feed the Odyssey É

Ron Evans

Another promo video for the PXW-Z100 this time not the FDR-AX1. PXW-Z100 (XDCAM 4K Handheld Camcorder) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiHTcwygZyg)

Ron Evans

Glen, what are going to deliver on! :) When I watched some 4k at Fry's the other day I was not floored. It looked very nice and you could walk up close to the TV and it did not pixelate. But at normal viewing distances it did not look that much better than my television at home. Certainly not so much to be an early adopter.

Give me dynamic range and light sensitivity. Resolution is a gimmic that you the viewer adapts to and focuses back on content after the glow fades away. I do not want cameras that are a bit crippled just to give more pixels. It is just too early for me. Heck, I can not find a good preview monitor larger than 5-7" that is even 720p! what are folks going to do with 4k??

As far as HD going away!!!? Seriously, this is just the type of conversation Sony wants flying around internet forums. HD is not going away. All television is 720p or 1080i and that will not change for a long time. People still want DVDs of what I shoot. Where does 4k fit into this universe? I agree with Gabe.


What will I deliver 4K on? Hmm, right now, nothing. ;-)
But the Z100 will also shoot in 10-bit, 4:2;2 HD, so it's still a useful tool until 4K becomes more widespread - and it will, does anyone doubt that now?
HD is not going away anytime soon, of course not. I own 2 HD cameras, I'm happy with them. But increased resolution IS the future, that I do believe. And that future is coming upon us, faster than most would think - or like, apparently.

And better resolution is a gimmick? I flat disagree with that statement. Was it a gimmick when HD resolution replaced SD? Are the BM4K, F55 and Epic cameras gimmicks because they do 4K? Is the upcoming Alexa 4K a gimmick? 4K is indeed more than pixel counting, but who's to say this new camera won't make great looking images? So far, I've been impressed with the limited videos I've seen. Not F55 levels of images, but still, this is a $6,500 camera. Please keep that in mind, people. It will have compromises. No productions looking for an F55 are going to settle for a Z100.
And I'll take the XAVC 10-bit, 4:2:2 codec, that's certainly not a gimmick.

And I did see the 4K monitor next to regular HD monitors, and yes, the difference was very noticeable. I preferred the 4K, what can I say?

It's funny, how I've heard on this site that before the RED cameras came about, Sony and the other manufacturers "forced" 1080 video upon us as the new norm for film making. How Jannard and the RED made us all realize the creative freedom and beauty of 4K.
Now, I'm hearing how Sony is "forcing" us to adopt 4K as the new norm. Hmm, OK.
I guess Canon, RED, Arri, JVC , Black Magic and eventually Panasonic are also "forcing" us to adopt 4K, just to sell product.

I do not know if this camera will end up being seen more as a gimmick than a creative tool. Perhaps its small sensor will forever handicap it as a viable broadcast camera. Time will tell. I do think Sony is offering an affordable solution for 4K for those who want to be early adopters.
I'll admit to being "dazzled" by the idea of finally being able to afford a true 4K camera, even if I can't justify actually delivering 4K content right now. But if what I've heard is true, that shooting in 4K and delivering in HD looks incredible, then that is vindication for me. Bottom line, if my clients are happy, I'm happy. And besides, it still shoots XAVC HD.

At the moment one can get a PMW160 with list of $7790, 1/3” chips recording 422 8bit to SxS cards at 50Mbps MXF wrapper. For $6500 a PMW-Z100 recording 10bit 422 with effect 1/3” chip recording to XQD cards at 220 Mbps MXF wrapper and with a bonus of recording 10bit 422 4k at 60P. Just comparing 1920x1080 the PMW-Z100 is the winner don’t you think ?

Comparing the FDR-AX1 to the NX5U comes up with the same conclusion for me.

Ron Evans

At the moment one can get a PMW160 with list of $7790, 1/3” chips recording 422 8bit to SxS cards at 50Mbps MXF wrapper. For $6500 a PMW-Z100 recording 10bit 422 with effect 1/3” chip recording to XQD cards at 220 Mbps MXF wrapper and with a bonus of recording 10bit 422 4k at 60P. Just comparing 1920x1080 the PMW-Z100 is the winner don’t you think ?

Comparing the FDR-AX1 to the NX5U comes up with the same conclusion for me.

Ron Evans

I cannot argue with your logic.

I wonder, could Sony have put the 1/2.3" chip in a PMW-200 body? The lens is designed for a 1/2" sensor. Could the 1/2.3" chip work with that lens?

I own 2 HD cameras, I'm happy with them. But increased resolution IS the future, that I do believe. And that future is coming upon us, faster than most would think - or like, apparently.


Nearly all cable channels are still 720p60. My doubling of resolution would be 1080p60. 80+" flat screen TVs are just about here, be they 2K or 4K. I've seen "House of Cards" in full Netflix SuperHD (1080p24 at no more than 8 Mbps) on a 100 Mbps business-class Internet line, and while it looks fantastic, it doesn't look noticeably better than NatGeo on 720p60 on Comcast.

And I did see the 4K monitor next to regular HD monitors, and yes, the difference was very noticeable.

No side-by-side comparison is necessary with either of the Sony 4K TVs to know you're watching something you haven't seen before.


But if what I've heard is true, that shooting in 4K and delivering in HD looks incredible, then that is vindication for me. Bottom line, if my clients are happy, I'm happy. And besides, it still shoots XAVC HD.

Future proof. Collect 4K footage now and be able to submit in 10 years. Still, I would upgrade to a 500-600 MBps I-Frame native 1080p60 camera unless these new Sony 4K's do as well or better than an EX1 + Nanoflash in low light.

I cannot argue with your logic.

I wonder, could Sony have put the 1/2.3" chip in a PMW-200 body? The lens is designed for a 1/2" sensor. Could the 1/2.3" chip work with that lens?

It's more about the resolving resolution of the lens. The Fujinon in the 200 is more designed for HD, so it wouldn't resolve past that as far as the full rez of 4K. Also, a single sensor block can possibly fit a bigger sensor like 2/3'' in something like a PMW-200 body, but slightly bigger, while at the same time smaller than an F3 or F5.

Slap an SD lens on a PMW-350 (which I've seen local stations do) and you'll see uncorrected CA everywhere and blurry picture as opposed to sharp picture.

According to my very unscientific tests, I simply converted XAVC rushes to ProRes. They doubled in size. I made Proxy files of XAVC rushes - they were half the size of the original.

So, at the moment, XAVC seems to be a very well balanced codec if - IF - you have the horsepower to run it. It's sort of, erm, generally like the big hairy chested version of AVCHD - XAVC is based on the highest level of H.264, tuned for the most voluminous bit rates. It's pretty computationally intensive for all but the newest, fastest computers - but that situation won't last long (as next year's newest, fastest computers will cope far better, and in two or three years time you're back to what HD felt like a few years ago. LOL

It's listed on B&H's site. $6,500. I wonder if the price will lower before it's in stock?

Sony 4K HANDHELD XDCAM CAMCORDER PXW-Z100 B&H Photo Video

No detailed description neither yet on B&H. I'd expect that first, then if there is a price drop, it likely would be a $300 price drop to match the PMW-200.

You also need to factor in a lot of XQD cards unless you are only shooting a min or two. At 4k 60P it will be about 12mins on a 64G card. The FDR-AX1 with XAVCS is about 50 mins on a 64G card. The PXW-Z100 will likely need the fastest cards but the FDR-AX1 will likely work fine on the slowest cards. Another big price difference.

Ron Evans

EDIT: Sony could of course come out with large XQD cards that don't cost more than the camera !!!! An SSD attachment is an obvious needed accessory or an Odyssey7Q if the SDI will pass 4K to it.

EDIT2: The AX-1 comes with a 32G card I think so for me I would need an additional 2 x 64G cards for what I want to do. putting the setup at just over $5000, about what I paid for my NX5U and FMU128 with the package deal when it first came out. I wonder if Sony will have some deals on cards when these come out !!! The difference at that time was the NX5U was only $200 more than the AX2000. There is a big difference now between the FDR-AX1 and the PXW-Z100.

Ah but the elephant in the room is whether the image approaches the BM Production Quad HD cam. Do not have samples to compare. Will the Z100 work for narrative work with a Letus as appropriate? So, far the answer seems to be no followed by maybe.

Ah but the elephant in the room is whether the image approaches the BM Production Quad HD cam. Do not have samples to compare. Will the Z100 work for narrative work with a Letus as appropriate? So, far the answer seems to be no followed by maybe.

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. If Sony introduces a 4k version of the NEX-EA50 or VG30 it would be a different story. Even a FF VG900 version !!!! With Sony's push for 4k product across the lineup I think that will come too. A couple a years and the whole lineup may be 4k including the cell phones!!!

Ron Evans

And better resolution is a gimmick? I flat disagree with that statement. Was it a gimmick when HD resolution replaced SD? Are the BM4K, F55 and Epic cameras gimmicks because they do 4K? Is the upcoming Alexa 4K a gimmick? 4K is indeed more than pixel counting, but who's to say this new camera won't make great looking images? So far, I've been impressed with the limited videos I've seen. Not F55 levels of images, but still, this is a $6,500 camera. Please keep that in mind, people. It will have compromises. No productions looking for an F55 are going to settle for a Z100.
And I'll take the XAVC 10-bit, 4:2:2 codec, that's certainly not a gimmick.
.

Glen, I should qualify my statements as I often mistakenly type conversationally on the internet...

Resolution by itself is not bad nor a gimmic, but it does have its limitations of perception and practical use.

The marketing of resolution is a gimmic. Just look at the still photo world as a perfect example. Consumers around the world equate megapixels = image quality. We in the industry know that image sensor + great optics = image quality. Resolution is just size, almost like a container.

I would rather have a 10mp camera with huge pixels and superb lens than a 20mp camera with smaller pixels and an o.k. lens. Upsampling is so advanced nowdays that it might not even matter if you needed to print huge.

When I read that users are willing to forgo DR and light sensitivity to get the higher resolution it is in my opinion that the marketing is working. I also believe that high quality 1080p uprezzed to 4k and played with 4k would be hard to tell apart for most viewers. I am trying to look at this from a business point of view because when I look at my own upgrade path from SD to HD five years ago, it has its ups and downs. Many folks have not accepted Blu-ray into their worlds. So for the most part, my HD distribution is internet based. The web is hardly the medium to be upgrading to 4k for. But everybody has different work needs.

I could go on but I do not want to sound like a curmudgeon! Technology is great. 4k will be here, it will just be playing to a smaller audience than HD or even SD (DVD) imho.

I agree on the upscaling of Bluray players and TV's. For my theatre shows the DVD and Bluray on my Sony system do not look THAT different !!! I know what to look for and can tell immediately but a normal viewer may not see that difference especially if they only see once. BLuray has the advantage of not only resolution detail but normally there is enough room for LPCM audio. The overall experience is different. Maybe when people get 4K TV's they may get Bluray more and upscale !!! The blank media cost difference is now getting lower too.

4K for me is purely as a media that I can crop from just like I did when I first got my FX1 that for 2 or 3 years either shot SD or was used to crop a DV image from in the edit. It would be nice to use the PXW-Z100 10bit 4:2:2 image for this but the cost for long record times is really not viable and I expect the XAVCS of the FDR-AX1 will be just fine !!!

Ron Evans

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. If Sony introduces a 4k version of the NEX-EA50 or VG30 it would be a different story. Even a FF VG900 version !!!! With Sony's push for 4k product across the lineup I think that will come too. A couple a years and the whole lineup may be 4k including the cell phones!!!

Ron Evans

I disagree. Filmic is not just shallow depth of field as on those cams.

My response was the fact that one is a small sensor camera that comes complete and ready to shoot and the other a large sensor camera that requires one to still buy a lot of stuff before it will shoot anything, does not do 50/60P, short battery life and really needs external power etc. In my mind they are targeted at totally different markets.

Ron Evans

If you supersample the 4k output to 1080p it might be pretty awesome. In the real world of network TV commercials & music videos where they use Sony F55/F65 super sampling to 1080p or 2K for cinema projection is standard behavior. it's kind of like getting 4 pixels per real pixel in a 1080p sensor. Kind of :-)

I would rather have a 10mp camera with huge pixels and superb lens than a 20mp camera with smaller pixels and an o.k. lens.


How does the Z100 or EX1 lens compare to the mid-range 24-70mm and 70-200mm constant aperture zooms from Nikon or Canon? I'm not seeing a lot of innovation in in-camera focusing and metering aids, at least not the extent of features that the portable monitor companies are offering.


When I read that users are willing to forgo DR and light sensitivity to get the higher resolution it is in my opinion that the marketing is working. .

In the press release, the DR is obscured. We're hoping it's not 1/4 that of an EX1/EX3 . I was willing to pay more for a 1080p60 machine with an improvement in DR that would allow improvements at +6 dB gain coupled with higher bitrates recorded internally, such a I-Frame-only 600 Mbps or long-GOP 70-100 Mbps. Nikon blew away everyone in fall 2007 with their 12 MPixel D3 high-DR camera that didn't increase the pixel count over its predecessor, the D2X.

This might not be a great analogy but having this XAVC codec behind this small 1/2.3 sensor is like having an industrial stregenth 18 wheeler semi truck transmission behind a Toyota Corola engine.

I suppose that this XAVC CODEC board (circuit chipset) was developed to be installed in many future 4k cameras. It might be done that way to save costs on manufacturing. (one chipset to be used in a very wide range of XDCAM and Handycam cameras with proper firmware crippling for lower cameras)

600 Mbp/s, 4:2:2 10 bit? It's cool but wow,...It just seems excessive for a small single bayer sensor.

CT

To move to 4K required a new codec for Sony. Mpeg2 can't do 4K, H264 didn't have a standard 4K profile until very recently. So Sony needed to come up with a new codec which they did in XAVC. XAVC has a large degree of future proofing. It can do almost any frame rate, it can be I frame or long GoP, it can adjust it's encoding structure on a frame by frame basis and include that information about how the frame was encoded in the metadata so the decoder adjusts correspondingly.

But 4K requires you to record 4x as much data as HD for a similar quality image. The bigger you make an image when you show it, the more important it is to keep artefacts to a minimum. As 4K is aimed at big screens, artefacts that might have been tolerable in HD may be objectionable on a big 4K screen. So, if you want to play in the 4K swimming pool your going to have to be prepared to drown in the 4K data. To put things into some perspective, when the EX1 was launched an 8GB SxS card cost $800 and held 22 mins. A 64GB T series XQD card costs $350 and will hold up to 25mins of 4K 25/30P XAVC (approx 250Mb/s - 300Mb/s).

This might not be a great analogy but having this XAVC codec behind this small 1/2.3 sensor is like having an industrial stregenth 18 wheeler semi truck transmission behind a Toyota Corola engine.

I suppose that this XAVC CODEC board (circuit chipset) was developed to be installed in many future 4k cameras. It might be done that way to save costs on manufacturing. (one chipset to be used in a very wide range of XDCAM and Handycam cameras with proper firmware crippling for lower cameras)

600 Mbp/s, 4:2:2 10 bit? It's cool but wow,...It just seems excessive for a small single bayer sensor.

CT

This also gives grounds for a new Nanoflash based on XAVC. If that's down the line for Convergent Design, then bring it on!

64GB is the new 8GB for 4K, no doubt 512GB XQD cards are coming down the line as the codec for sure isn't going to change to H.265 anytime soon. (Plus, H.265 lacks High profile, 4:2:2, and more at the moment, making it only a delivery format, not acquisition)

At least for the FDR-AX1 that I am interested in is now on the Canada Sony site . There is however a lens spec difference I have seen repeated before though this time it is in the same document !!!! The features info states lens as 31.5 to 630, the spec section says 29.5 to 590 (this is the spec for the NX5U ) !!

Cannot find any info for the PXW-Z100 on the site yet.

Ron Evans

To move to 4K required a new codec for Sony. Mpeg2 can't do 4K, H264 didn't have a standard 4K profile until very recently. So Sony needed to come up with a new codec which they did in XAVC. XAVC has a large degree of future proofing. It can do almost any frame rate, it can be I frame or long GoP, it can adjust it's encoding structure on a frame by frame basis and include that information about how the frame was encoded in the metadata so the decoder adjusts correspondingly.

But 4K requires you to record 4x as much data as HD for a similar quality image. The bigger you make an image when you show it, the more important it is to keep artefacts to a minimum. As 4K is aimed at big screens, artefacts that might have been tolerable in HD may be objectionable on a big 4K screen. So, if you want to play in the 4K swimming pool your going to have to be prepared to drown in the 4K data. To put things into some perspective, when the EX1 was launched an 8GB SxS card cost $800 and held 22 mins. A 64GB T series XQD card costs $350 and will hold up to 25mins of 4K 25/30P XAVC (approx 250Mb/s - 300Mb/s).

Any idea if when this camera gets the XAVC-S update, will it record 1080p60 (50Mbps I think I read somewhere) at 4:2:2 10bit? Or will it drop it down to 4:2:0 8bit?

At least for the FDR-AX1 that I am interested in is now on the Canada Sony site . There is however a lens spec difference I have seen repeated before though this time it is in the same document !!!! The features info states lens as 31.5 to 630, the spec section says 29.5 to 590 (this is the spec for the NX5U ) !!

Cannot find any info for the PXW-Z100 on the site yet.

Ron Evans

Tthe 31.5 lens spec is with Quad HD, which crops to get the smaller Quad HD width, the wider 29.5 spec (30 in some literature) is with full 4K width.

To move to 4K required a new codec for Sony. Mpeg2 can't do 4K, H264 didn't have a standard 4K profile until very recently. So Sony needed to come up with a new codec which they did in XAVC. XAVC has a large degree of future proofing. It can do almost any frame rate, it can be I frame or long GoP, it can adjust it's encoding structure on a frame by frame basis and include that information about how the frame was encoded in the metadata so the decoder adjusts correspondingly.

But 4K requires you to record 4x as much data as HD for a similar quality image. The bigger you make an image when you show it, the more important it is to keep artefacts to a minimum. As 4K is aimed at big screens, artefacts that might have been tolerable in HD may be objectionable on a big 4K screen. So, if you want to play in the 4K swimming pool your going to have to be prepared to drown in the 4K data. To put things into some perspective, when the EX1 was launched an 8GB SxS card cost $800 and held 22 mins. A 64GB T series XQD card costs $350 and will hold up to 25mins of 4K 25/30P XAVC (approx 250Mb/s - 300Mb/s).

New low cost N Series cards are coming. Check the link below

Sony Updates XQD Cards for 4K Video Capture Speeds (http://www.photographybay.com/2013/09/07/sony-updates-xqd-cards-for-4k-video-capture-speeds/)

Rajiv

Any idea if when this camera gets the XAVC-S update, will it record 1080p60 (50Mbps I think I read somewhere) at 4:2:2 10bit? Or will it drop it down to 4:2:0 8bit?

My info is that the 1080p60pi/50pi/30/25/24 can be recorded in 10 bit 4:2:2 at 50 Mbits in an MXF wrapper and even at 35 Mbits. But this isn't XDCAM, it's still XAVC - there's an 'XDCAM' logo on the Z100's left flank under the 4K, though. Hmmm.

I wondered if the XDCAM was there as a sort of 'interrim format' for compatibility, but if it's an XAVC thing and the compression is coming from LongGOP (like XAVC-S) then I think it's the AVCHD which is being seen as the interrim solution - and that comes 'next year' too.

New low cost N Series cards are coming. Check the link below

Sony Updates XQD Cards for 4K Video Capture Speeds (http://www.photographybay.com/2013/09/07/sony-updates-xqd-cards-for-4k-video-capture-speeds/)

Rajiv

According to the article, the N cards are only good for the "consumer" FDR-AX1.
But if you update the Z100 with the lower bit rate codec offered next year, perhaps they can be used?

There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).

I wonder if the N series would still be within tolerable limits for S&Q on a PMW-200. In any case, cheaper XQD cards means the XDCAM folk would have an easier time moving off of SDHC.

According to the article, the N cards are only good for the "consumer" FDR-AX1.
But if you update the Z100 with the lower bit rate codec offered next year, perhaps they can be used?

For those who buy this PXW-Z100 4K camera on experimental basis and are targeting 1080p flavors in XAVC/XAVC-S or XDCAM mpeg-2 (50/60/30/25/24) the N Series card may be sufficient and can buy in plenty. Still they can buy a single S series card experiment with 4K until they are ready to move up to.

Rajiv

There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).

I think you mean MBps not Mbps The 4K XAVCS is 150Mbps so will be no problem for the N series at 80MBps. And should also work for 1920x1080 on the PXW-Z100.

My interest is in the FDR-AX1 because I want the long record times so the 64G cards will be great. I need to record over 2 hours 30 mins so with the included 32G card, 2 x64 cards will do it for me. Wish the AVCHD feature was initially active as that would give a simultaneous record backup. We will have to wait an see what is actually in these cameras when they appear in a few weeks for the FDR-AX1.

Ron Evans

Uuurgh - yes. I'm trying to tweak the review, edit the video and keep up with 'actual work' and so my CaPiTaLiSaTiOn is going to pot. Mb is not MB by a factor of 8! Hmm, there is such a thing as 'too much' caffeine.

We understand Matt. Any info you can give us is really appreciated.

Ron Evans

Hmm, there is such a thing as 'too much' caffeine.Could be the post of the day... mulling this over as I have my coffee.

There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).

The new UHS-II SD cards will be even faster with maximum possible write speed up to 312MB/s.
Toshiba announces first UHS-II SD cards as world's fastest: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/07/16/Toshiba-Exceria-Pro-fastest-SD-cards-UHS-II-up-to-240MBs-write?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0)


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/9314888126_7581c8afd9_o.jpg

UHS-II is what MicroP2 is currently using, but that is not cross compatible with SDHC or SDXC.

Capacity and Speed are both needed for 4K, and how not to do it was JVC's 4 SD card solution.

512GB XQD cards are what are going to have to come down the line if 4K and long-length acquisition (like concert video) is going to be viable without endlessly swapping cards.

I think a useful addition would be a XQD adaptor in the camera to SSD housing for long record times much like the hard drive for the EX family. Even with the FDR-AX1 this may be a better alternative to lots of XQD cards that I would consider.

Ron Evans