My Final Post.... (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?104367-My-Final-Post)

Love him or hate him, no one can deny the man has accomplished amazing things.

For me, Jim put together an amazing team that has turned the industry upside down, creating many winners along with many losers.
All too often innovators suffer the brunt of attacks, skepticism and worse.
Sure, sometimes they bring it on themselves, other times it is unwarranted - the spawn of fear and personal self interest.
Despite all the failings, shortfalls, and missed delivery times, my hat is off to Jim Jannard for his and his teams' accomplishments. I do put Jim in the same category as visionaries like Steve Jobs.

As always, YMMV.

Peace out.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

ACT I: Oakley
ACT II: RED
ACT III: To be written...

I really got excited about Red in 2008 after their NAB announcements, mostly Scarlet 3k for $3k. When they had a big announcement in the fall of 2008, I planned my day around it. I was disappointed, butstill excited, that that announcement all but got rid of everything they announced at NAB & replaced it with an entirely new plan. Eventually it became obvious that even that new plan was thrown out & another new plan was pitched. This is about where I stopped really following & being excited about Red. (Mostly because what they were delivering wasn't what I needed.)

So as someone who is not a Red fanboy, I have to say it is as clear as the sky is blue that Jim Jannard helped change the camera industry for the better. Red has been a great example of how the free market can get shaken up by a small group of people wanting to do great things.

I have yet to own, rent, shoot or even touch with a Red camera. Maybe that will change in the future, maybe it won't. But I do know for sure, I have benefited from Jim creating Red because I use cameras to make my living & he provided competition that forced cameras to be better & cheaper.

I wish him the best & nothing but future success to Red.

The link to the blog did not work for me.

My thoughts are similar to Zach's. While I was disappointed that Red's business plan evolved from bringing a high resolution cinema camera to the masses to a much more expensive product line targeted to the professional feature film, episodic tv, and commercial filmmaker, there is no denying they changed the playing field.

I don't think there is anyway we would be seeing the Sony PMW F55 or the Canon C500 at the price point they are it if it were not for the inroads into the professional filmmaking industry that RED has made.

Interestingly enough it looks like Blackmagic Design is going to be the one to deliver on the initial promises RED made.

One of the best bits of all was that the RED adventure, at least in the public and interactive stages, kicked off right here on dvinfo net with Mr. Jannard himself posting as the Madman.

As with the 35mm adapter and the SI2K, it was a grand adventure. One looks forward to many other good things gestating right here on this forum. Kudos to Chris Hurd and others for making this place happen.

I think we all owe a great deal to Jim J and his team's successes.
Red truly is responsible for bringing digital capture close to film along with workflows that no longer require an expensive chemical process and bring so much of the process right on set. Look at how much they have done since inception. It isn't just sensors and cameras - it is a whole workflow.

And they are not through yet! Delivery/projection/RedRay.

The man has some guts to spend a good part of his fortune on a roll of the dice on a dream that came from his hobby. How many would do that? And make it succeed. Sorry that all the excitement was finally overwhelmed by those who make the easy choice to highlight the negative. Shake it off - you guys have done a marvelous thing - and did it from scratch. THANK YOU!

Just a reminder that there were a number of other people and companies involved in that process. Some of these were working on this at or before the time RED started, the previously mentioned SI 2K and Jeff Kreines.

DJ -"I don't think there is anyway we would be seeing the Sony PMW F55 or the Canon C500 at the price point they are it if it were not for the inroads into the professional filmmaking industry that RED has made".

I'm not so sure on that....at least with Canon. The C300 & C500 were a result of the massive world wide sales of the 5DII, not RED. According to the numbers I heard, Canon was doing roughly 200,000 5DIIs a month for something like 4 years.....2 years into that is what caused Canon to start the Cinema EOS project. As for the F55/F5, Sony was already into 4K so those cameras were just 1) a continuation of their evolution and 2) rushed out a bit because of the success of the C300.....IMHO

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

I agree with Jim there. Canon brought the big chip to the masses, and the F5 and 55 were probably Sony's hurry up move to the C300 and 500. While we can thank Canon for getting the big chip down to an affordable level for anyone, Sony has surpassed them, in my opinion, with the FS100 and FS700. Now there's a "real" digital cinema camera for anybody's pocketbook, from the FS100 at a DSLR price all the way up to the F65. Not to mention the impending arrival of the Black Magic digital cinema cam.

My prediction...

Its just time the baby boomers retire and go away.. leave the world to work out our spoils...

I remember the original thread where the seeds were planted. Very few can say, they in fact did put their money where their mouth was and back up their talk. Kudos to Jim for doing so, he may not have started the revolution but he certainly did have a major hand in kicking it into high gear. I'm a reformed luddite due in large part to people like Jim and forums such as DV Info. Thanks to both.

I think the man deserves his due. He did reshape the landscape. Simply conceiving of a US based camera manufacturing company was enough...but he has pushed an envelope that didn't want to be pushed, and we've all benefitted from it. The industry is more alive at least partially because of him.

However, Jim Jannard did it with a hell of a lot of hype. He did it on the internet. He used that internet to build his company, often in ways that were occasionally "border-line" and frankly he personally trashed a lot of people and companies in the process. To now claim that he didn't deserve the criticism, that he's tired because people on the internet are mean...and that because of "them" he doesn't want to play anymore...well...that's pretty funny, don't you think?

I watched dissenters get publicly shamed on reduser for merely suggesting that there might be flaws in the system. I hardly ever saw the big guy step in and stop it. Actually...I saw him regularly add to the pile-on when it suited his needs.

The man deserves his due, all right. He created a great camera company. That company will continue to prosper and innovate. As he said, the public face is now Jarred...a person who is much better suited to the job. But the rest of it...the reason "why" he's stepping back...well that's just more hype and BS...which unfortunately, is business as usual for Mr. Jannard.

Well, nobody ever accused Jim of having a small personality. It takes a bold person to do bold things. Hey, it's not only his cameras that have "large attachments." ;)

As I count it, RED had many wins and only a small number of losses. The 3K Scarlet was the biggest loss. The hype got ahead of the reality on that one. And, yes, schedules slipped regularly. That happens with product engineering. I just doesn't usually happen that publicly. (The openness during development was another bold approach.) Still, ONE, EPIC, Scarlet2, and Dragon plus all their support are huge accomplishments. No camera manufacturer releases a mid/high end camera without first studying the RED product line.

Personally, I hope Jim rests up - and then gets bold again. :)

There is always a tendency of people to glorify a departed soul or a retired person. We saw worldwide outpourings of sympathy when Princess Diana died and similarly after each celebrity passes away. It is not a comment on those departed souls, but I am just trying to point out that people normally try to forget the blunders and only pick the positives and amplify those many times.

5D Mark II with its video really democratised filmmaking. After the launch of 5D II, a number of Hollywood filmmakers got in touch with Canon and urged it to move seriously in this direction. Introduction of 5D II increased the number of guys shooting video. The market got expanded. Lot of people started trying out video and many moved up stream to shoot with costlier equipment and bigger productions. Companies started lowering costs and created products with similar functionalities at a cheaper cost to tap into the new class of video shooters. The increased base of shooters helped the overall economies of scale. So I would say that it is 5D II that had a massive impact on filming.

On the other hand, RED coined the slogan 3k for 3k. That attracted many people to RED. Jim realised that they didn't have the bandwidth to create a mass market product. So RED moved further up. Nothing wrong, as companies need to create strategies for their own survival. Jim Jannard did well to envision a product and make it successful. Full marks to him. However, to deify him and attribute the change in film industry solely to him is wrong.

In my country and in many asian cultures, the society is paternalistic. The CEO is looked upon as a father figure. We can't imagine a CEO making inflammatory remarks in his forum and after a number of sharp responses from other users the thread gets locked.

Please understand that most of the decision making is not often rational. When you study the psyche of individuals, you will realise that people perceive certain products as good or bad based on other considerations. Not many people will buy the product when they hate your personal philosophy. So it is better that Jim moves himself from these uttering which are a PR managers nightmare.

Fist fights, bazookas, bomb reps, bomb squad, bomb EVF.... I am a wellwisher, but I do have trouble with such nomenclature and use of such jargon against competition. As such the security in airport is so tough. A number of times I am asked to dismantle the rycote zeppelin, show each lens, connect the EVF and show the camera etc etc. Don't want to say that I am carrying a bomb EVF. :)

It is true that competitors keep an eye on RED and are releasing high resolution cameras just to keep one feet on that side of the fence for customers who get swayed by the high resolution hype.

On the other hand, RED too follows its competitors. For example, RED held their own announcement of Scarlet on Nov 3, 2011 in direct competition to Canon C300. The product was created to compete with C300.

Similarly, the EPIC price was slashed in response to the impending response of Sony F5/F55. The talk of efficiencies leading to price cut is just a load of bull. They even tried to stall the shipments of Sony F5/F55 by filing legal challenges. The initial dragon footage looks good. Buy it due to its own merits and not because someone told you.

Gentlemen, this is cut throat business. Don't get misled by talk of so called altruistic moves. Its a camera, not your wife. :) And howsoever beautiful the wife may be, I haven't heard of too many people fighting to defend their father-in-law. :)

I think the man deserves his due. He did reshape the landscape. Simply conceiving of a US based camera manufacturing company was enough...but he has pushed an envelope that didn't want to be pushed, and we've all benefitted from it. The industry is more alive at least partially because of him.

However, Jim Jannard did it with a hell of a lot of hype. He did it on the internet. He used that internet to build his company, often in ways that were occasionally "border-line" and frankly he personally trashed a lot of people and companies in the process. To now claim that he didn't deserve the criticism, that he's tired because people on the internet are mean...and that because of "them" he doesn't want to play anymore...well...that's pretty funny, don't you think?

I watched dissenters get publicly shamed on reduser for merely suggesting that there might be flaws in the system. I hardly ever saw the big guy step in and stop it. Actually...I saw him regularly add to the pile-on when it suited his needs.

The man deserves his due, all right. He created a great camera company. That company will continue to prosper and innovate. As he said, the public face is now Jarred...a person who is much better suited to the job. But the rest of it...the reason "why" he's stepping back...well that's just more hype and BS...which unfortunately, is business as usual for Mr. Jannard.

Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.

Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.

When you are putting out 110%, giving your everything and trying to do your absolute best, this in going up against Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Arri and all the other huge machines, then one might be able to see why people like Jobs didn't take no for an answer and did not take kindly to even small criticisms.

Too passionate? Perhaps for some, but for me, that's what putting out 110% means.

Unfortunately, it wasn't just other camera manufactures, but it included DPs who shoot with his cameras and some customers.

Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.

I don't think comparisons to Steve Jobs are accurate at all relative to my comment. Being prickly isn't the point. Criticizing Microsoft wasn't either. If Apple had announced the iPhone two years plus before delivering it, If Jobs had stopped being "lead marketer" at Apple and blamed his leaving on Google being evil (and on the way out the door called Ballmer a prick), you might have something. Steve Jobs said something else entirely. Apple - Press Info - Letter from Steve Jobs (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/08/24Letter-from-Steve-Jobs.html)

It's not about his passion, or creativity, or ability. Jannard ran the public face of Red in a very hype-driven, confrontational fashion. Quite often bashing and swinging as he went. As he left the stage he chose to to fire off a few parting shots... with a "Geoff Boyle this," and an "Art Adams that"...and ended with an "I don't deserve this"...so..."I'm outta here."

I think my point was simply "live by the sword, die by the sword."

I've met and talked with Jim a few times. He is the real deal. He is passionate and forward thinking in what he does.
If he hadn't made the Red One, we would still be using HDV cameras with 2/3" chips. 1080p. There would probably be high-end bigger sensor/raw/4k+ cameras, but not at the same prices! Some of those "high-end" cameras at the time of the Red One were well over $100k!

I hope he still comes to NAB... need to buy him a beer and/or cigar!

Despite all the failings, shortfalls, and missed delivery times, my hat is off to Jim Jannard for his and his teams' accomplishments. I do put Jim in the same category as visionaries like Steve Jobs.

Yep, I'm sad to see Jannard stepping down -- although not the most educated, articulate, nor tactful person -- he has CERTAINLY contributed (and hopefully still will) more to the film industry than any living creature, (just as Steve Jobs did for the computer industry).

- peer

If he hadn't made the Red One, we would still be using HDV cameras with 2/3" chips. 1080p. There would probably be high-end bigger sensor/raw/4k+ cameras, but not at the same prices! Some of those "high-end" cameras at the time of the Red One were well over $100k!

With the nature of computer pricing, there would always be that downwards pressure. The technology had reached a crossing point where you could record large amounts of data, helped by some compression. The prices of cameras have generally been dropping because you don't have expensive VTRs attached.

Jim Jannard quickened the process by doing what entrepreneurs do, he saw a gap in the market and technology reached the point were it could fill it. However, I suspect the next price drop came from the large manufacturers responding to the RED One and seeing how it didn't meet the desires of a market sector that liked large sensors, but didn't want the demanding RAW workflow and couldn't afford the RED price.

I'm not sure you can say you'd be shooting HDV on 2/3" chips, that codec was reaching the end by that stage. Rather interestingly, some people have hacked old F900s to record uncompressed sensor outputs with, I gather, impressive results. The downside to 2/3" cameras are the specialised lenses, so you won't have a mass market price for your glassware. One development has been the use of codecs like ProRes and DNxHD, which were previously only used in post production also being used for acquisition,

The market for 4k can only grow if the television manufacturers can convince the public that having 4K in their living room is worthwhile.

I suspect that Jim is getting ready to sell the company.

Jim hasn't left RED. He has removed himself from being the spokesperson and won't interact with the reduser community via his posts. He is supposed to be notoriously media shy. I guess he will focus more on interacting with ASCs and studios etc to do the background marketing as recently he and Jarred were interacting with ASCs for a demo of Epic with Dragon. It takes a lot of time posting in the forums.

I think it is good for RED as a business, good for the customers and potential customers.

I don't know Jim personally and have only read his posts and interacted with him in the forum like others. I suspect what people talk as attitude problem ie his rants etc, might be a ploy.

It might be also be partly due to RED being defensive because of late delivery, camera/firmware being in perennial beta stage etc. Remember, it is not easy to create a polished camera with everything working well in a short time. He tried to make his weakness as his strength. So there was the tag line "everything in red changes, including specs, delivery times...). Delay is seen as bad. Always. However, he tried to link the delay with changing specs. So the perception was created that all this is due to RED striving to make a better camera and people forgot that as a customer they are supposed to get a completely working camera with all the features on from day one. So there is a brilliant mind working which uses tactics, and changes your weakness into perceived strength. That is what strategy is all about.

The people who didn't buy his arguments were blasted and branded as some kind of "heretics". That ensured a lot of murmurings didn't come on the surface. If he would not have done that, then there would have been more questions by others. It is agreed that a few guys got pissed and some moved to other brands. However, he was trying to ensure the least amount of damage.

Psychologists will tell you that when people know they are down, they try to be aggressive and hit back hard.

Now that Dragon sensor seems to be good, you may see a different Jim. You may see him polite and doing the backroom deals with the big boys so that his camera is used more by the major studios. That is the sign of leaders. They change their personality depending on situations.

One thing his worst opponents will agree is that he created two successful companies in two different industries. That is huge and can only be done by people who are passionate.

Everything in life changes, hopefully for the better.

Art Adams gives a response to what has been said about him and is an interesting commentary on early issues with the RED One.

When a Camera Manufacturer Hates Me… by Art Adams (http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/when-a-camera-manufacturer-hates-me)

Hopefully things will settle down, there are now a wide range of camera options available and that's a good thing.

JJ is stepping out because he knows the days of RED are numbered.
When it started the company, he was 5 years ahead of the competition.
Jim saw a window of opportunity to introduce a 4K camera, that Sony COULD but DIDN'T WANT to bring out so early, because it would have undermined the company's established consumer and professional product lines.

Although quite behind schedule, he managed to present a credible workflow and through an aggressive and brilliant marketing, he managed to sell thousands of cameras, even to people that never really need the 4K quality. The small number of films produced with the R1 and MX are very telling of the situation. A lot of users paid for a 4K camera and a very expensive and difficult workflow, in a area which was still SD dominated.
Then he introduced EPIC which is Red's only mature camera and is not coincidence that it was embraced by the movie industry.
But now this window of opportunity is permanent closed.
The Big Boys have long recaptured their investment in HD and-after the failure of 3D-they have set their eyes in 4K. He knows his competitors have economies of scale, reputation, and worldwide service he can only dream.

The novelty is over. Soon fanboys will have 4K smartphones and pro 4K camcorders with $3K.
When Arri will introduce their 4K camera sometime next year things wont get any better. Even if DRAGON proves to be a better camera, pros will probably stick with the Arri name, just because...

4K is good enough for film and way more than enough for TV.
6K, 8K doesn't matter unless you don't know how to frame. Eventually we will have them, but only when the current technology has payed its research.

He is very clever and knows when to bow out before the lights went out. So he did.


About his legacy:

He didn't democratized filmmaking. Only 5DII can be credited for that.
He did managed to bring the cost of High end production cameras from around $200K to $50K. The rental houses and some independent DP should be eternally great full. Consequently he brought down the rental fees and put a smile on the face of low budget independent producers. A side effect of this, was the death of PANAVISION. Alas every war has collateral damage. He also put some death nails to the KODAK coffin, although I think FF DSLRS and 3D movies (Avatar) are more responsible for the loss.

His most important contribution was the adoption of digital film acquisition and raw workflow.

For that, the whole industry is grateful.

Quote, 'I'm tired I really am.' Ever been tired like that with the main game still in full swing.

Cheers.