So how do handle the Bride/Groom prep? Do you talk with them before hand about certain shots? Do you hang out for a few minutes and fake "special parts"? Do you sit in a corner like a fly and try to capture the actual preparations including candid conversations? How do you make this NOT awkward. Sorry for bombarding with questions in one post. It just seems hanging out in a room with a camera while people are getting ready lends itself to be an awkward time. Please describe your normal routine including your interactions with the B&G. Thanks!!

Hi Byron

I normally arrive and do some shots of the dress hanging up and the bouquets (also the jewellery if I'm doing stills too) then shots of hair being done, makeup being done (but only the final bits so the girls already look good) Then the bride getting her dress laced up and putting on necklace and bracelets and earrings. If I have time to spare I'll get the girls leaving the house and getting into the limo but more often than not I need that extra time to get to the ceremony venue to set up. A couple of fill in candid shots are worth doing too just so you don't run out of footage. I restrict mine to the length of a song on video so normally 6 -10 minutes is more than enough.

Chris

Chris has some good tips for shots you can take. You may think of others as well but I sense you are nervous about being there. It might help you if you realize that they are probably more nervous than you. If you take steps to help them relax, it will have the same effect on you. Take your cue from them. I find often times a bride or groom appreciates chatting with me because it helps them relax especially if you keep it light hearted.

Do you sit in a corner like a fly

Basically, yes. But it helps if the fly talks from time to time, and even better if the fly makes jokes or delivers compliments.

Same as Chris but i now stage a few things if say the bridesmaid is doing a speech, i get her to read it out to me at the prep so i can use it for my story changing from the prep to real speeches later. Also if the groom has bought any presents or a nice card i get the bride to read it out or one of the girls, then i stage a champagne shot and fun and laughter to get everyone unstressed at the prep. Later on i use the glidecam if sunny and stage walks and talks.

The most important way to not make it awkward is communication. I arrive early, chat people up. Introduce myself and then explain myself - what I am doing, what I expect, and their options. Which is to say, not much. I also make sure they know I"m there to try and make them look good.

I find that once you become friendly with people - which with the B&G can be and should be done before the day of - the more comfortable they will be. I used to be a waiter, and am really good at quickly reading people, and matching them. I'll be conversational, especially early, then start to pull back and observe as their friends and family arrive.

And along with planned shots like Chris Harding points out, I am just hanging around hoping to catch some random moments and stories; genuine emotion from smiling or nervous faces.

Another reason to chat them up is priming. This is the idea that sometimes you need to gently lead people to where you want. Before the B&G see each other, or the dad sees the bride for the first time, ask leading questions to put their mind where you want it: are you excited/nervous? How did you two first meet? How did you propose? What's your favorite thing about X?

By doing that, you can get great audio, but also better reactions from them when the next thing happens because they start to think about their fiance instead of whatever has been going on for the last five minutes.

Some great points there, communication is key and as Robert mentions arrive as early as you can and yeah it's important to be friendly with them, one or two i've even let them take a photograph of me etc. - breaks the ice!
a good question to ask is 'how long ago did the planning for this begin?' the bride especially, will just love to tell you about all the planning and the excitement etc. that culminates to this day.
The priming idea is good too, people aren't used to being the center of attention with cameras and lens etc. pointing at them, but tey get used to it after a while especially if your there early!
:-)

Good advice Rob.

I'm a chatterbox anyway so I certainly don't cower in the corner but chat to everyone and by doing this getting shots is really easy.

Actually on a prep a few weeks the MOG was practicing her reception speech so I filmed her and it went down really well. Mum was of Dutch origin and her son was marrying a New Zealand girl with a Maori father so she was going to read a Maori blessing and struggled with some of the words but was helped along by the bride and it really was a nice personal sequence.

I think if you are friendly and a bit talkative, the girls will feel more at ease and open up and also be more natural rather than see you as the "big bad wolf" crouching in the corner of the room.

Chris

Yeah - good post Rob.

I make a habit of not even getting my gear out for the first 10mins, instead just chat to the bride - introduce myself to everyone and try and appear relaxed as possible. (I hate it when the bride just sits there and doesn't introduce you to everyone).

I am wishing I would have posted this a few months ago. So, on average, how much time do you spend with the bride (& bridesmaids)? The groom (and groomsmen/ushers)?

Hi Byron

I normally allocate an hour for prep but get there early ..better than rushing and I can chat and get offered a cool drink before I start. With most brides I end up hurrying them up at the end as I have timed it so I'm 30 minutes ahead of her to give me time to set up at the ceremony and be ready waiting for the limo without rushing. Sometimes right at the end you have to take shortcuts and let her put on her jewellery while the bridesmaids are struggling with dress lace ups but I have found that 60 minutes usually works out well ... you are not going to need that long but I prefer to take a no stress attitude on stuff I can control!

Chris

Hi Byron, yep - similar to Chris.

Our churches here are usually only 15mins away from the brides house. So I would arrive 1pm at brides, leave around 2:15pm, get to church 2:30pm and setup for a 3pm service. That's the stressful bit, between 2:30pm-3pm.

I make it clear (firm and friendly) that bride needs to be getting dressed around 1:45pm - as I need to leave at 2:15pm NO MATTER WHAT. Getting setup for ceremony is more important than doing up dress shots.

I can't stand doing groom-preps. Whenever I have it's been a disaster. Just don't enjoy doing it so I don't offer it. Grooms don't seem to care. I tell the bride the best shots of them are at the church nervously greeting guests... they are always cool with that.

Hi John

Me too.. I make it known very clearly that when I say "I'm out of here" at 2:00pm I really do mean it and there is no negotiation on the time. I normally tell them to be in their dress at 1:45pm latest (if I'm planning to leave at 2:00pm) The LAST thing you want to do at a Church is be running around like an idiot settting up gear with sweat pouring off you and the limo coming down the road!

Byron? be VERY firm with this aspect of bridal prep and give yourself plenty of time to set up for the ceremony ...Churches don't wait for you if you are late!

Chris

My female partner who is the creative part of our team handles all of this. However in cases where the groom is getting ready at the same time sometimes we use our second shooter to film the groom. If he is already ready we have him looking into the camera as if it were a mirror and adjusting his tie. Also perhaps a closeup of him tying his dress shoes, straightening his jacket, etc.

Most of the prep video is focused on the bride but we do like a little of the groom when possible.

Another big part for us is when couples do the "first look" before the wedding. We generally use two cameras with one on the groom as the bride walks out to him and one on her with usually that camera also getting a wide shot of both as them as she gets closer to him.

I am wishing I would have posted this a few months ago. So, on average, how much time do you spend with the bride (& bridesmaids)? The groom (and groomsmen/ushers)?

Hey Byron, here's a normal wedding morning for me:

-- Arrive at groom's at 9am
-- Leave at 10am
-- Arrive at bride's at 10.30am
-- Leave at 12pm
-- Arrive at church at 12.30pm
-- Ceremony at 1pm

So, I'm allowing 1 hour for groom, and 1.5 for bride. If I can, I prefer to spend longer. That morning time just disappears for me. It's not difficult to spend half an hour just mucking around with filming the dress and accessories.

But it's not usually me telling them how much time I want -- it's more often them telling me how much time I've got to work with. Which is sometimes very little. Depends on travel times, on scheduling, on when they're comfortable with you arriving, etc.

Whether there's more action happening on bride's side or groom's side just depends. A lot of variables. Pretty much anything that's not a Protestant wedding or civil ceremony = lots of family members and plenty of action on the groom's side, or so I've found.

How much time you ought to allow -- I think this depends partly on what sort of product you're delivering. How many minutes of prep do you plan to use in your finished videos?

I often console myself with the thought, "It's hard to completely stuff up a prep". If only a few minutes at most are going to make it through the edit, then surely you're going to come away with enough usable footage after an hour of filming. Added to this is the fact that you don't have to show anything. It's not like other "key" moments during the day. -- If you don't get any make-up shots, does it really matter? If you don't film the bride actually getting dress laced up, does it really matter?

Adrian you arrive at the church only a half hour before the ceremony? Wow it takes me a half hour to get establishing shots (inside and out) plus set my extra cameras and audio recorders up - the bride would be on her way down the aisle as I was taping a mic to the lecturn!

How do you get time to film guests arriving etc? I always get to the church an hour before - that means I'm ready to film guests/groom/bridesmaids arriving and greetings etc - It's an important half hour and makes a nice opening chapter on the DVD.

All weddings are different and I have in the past - even as a solo shooter - managed bride and groom prep (separate houses but very close together) and still got to the church with an hour to spare. Hotel weddings of course are easy if the bride is getting ready there as i can float between her room and the gathering area (bar!) to get the guests - I've been told by my brides this is one of their favorite chapters as it's part of the day they miss - I couldn't possibly set up and capture all this in the 30 mins before the ceremony!

Hey Peter, one thing is that I pretty much always shoot with at least two people.

I do prefer an hour when I can, and I prefer to arrive when the church is still being set up, so I can get a few shots of that. But it just doesn't seem to fit in with couple's scheduling a lot of the time. I do want to get the shots of bride fully dressed when I can.

I don't spend much time on establishing shots at church. One decent shot of the exterior with a steadicam is enough for me. Maybe half a dozen details of features of the inside of the church. I know I can grab more during the ceremony if I have to, since I'm using at least three cameras. (So, for a lot of the ceremony, it can be one camera on whoever's talking, one safety wide shot, and the other camera free to get cutaways.)

In terms of candids of guests pre-ceremony, I don't feel the need to film everyone, and I don't usually do timelapses of people arriving.

If I get a dozen shots of people hugging/laughing or kids doing something funny, and three or four "events" filmed from a couple of angles (like someone handing out programs or someone tying a flower to a lapel or someone lighting a candle), then I'm more than happy.

Normal product I deliver, by the way, is four videos: ceremony; formal parts of reception; 5 minute highlights, and 15-minute highlights; and I find I can easily amass 90-120 minutes worth of footage from this without including all that much pre- and post-ceremony greetings and congratulations.

I always have a 2nd shooter, I usually arrive at the brides 1st, explain what we're doing and why - get everyone feeling comfortable and 'ignoring' us then I bugger off and head to the grooms - I usually don't have a problem with the girls but the boys are sometimes a bit reticent - depending on the situation I'll tell them straight. jokes / banter etc are all great tools for getting people to feel comforatable. I usually shoot an ECU and show that to them "see I'm not filming you, just your hair being done, or your hand picking up a glass" - anything to make them feel comfortable - even sticking the camera right in their face to get a laugh

I must admit I'm a true advocate of "the buck stops with the boss..and I'm the boss" If a segment is going to be screwed up I would rather I did it, not some assistant!!

If I'm really pushed and do groom and bride prep then I do use a local film student but I send her to the grooms prep and I still do the bridal prep cos if something is going to be sub standard, I'd rather it be the groom prep as for me the bride prep is more important.

I still cannot fathom what so called experienced film students actually learn at "film school" I have had shots when the young lady shot 80% of the footage with the guys directly in front of a sun filled lounge window .... these people technically should be a LOT better than me but I have yet to find a "qualified" shooter. Life is tough!! If they are getting ready fairly close together then I just do it on my own!!

It's hard work but if you are organised it's quite practical to do it and not many of my brides want groom prep!!

I'm like Adrian too ...30 minutes ahead is plenty of time for me ...I can set up the two cameras in the Church probably in 10 minutes flat and then I can relax at the entrance with the third camera and wait for the limo to arrive.

Chris

Being a single shooter, I don't have the luxury of having a 2nd cameraman, but if I did I'd rather they went to the church and caught the guests arrival. Groom preps are rarely desired and I find it's the Bridal Preps where my style of shooting comes into it's own as I often have the time to set up shots, compared to other parts of the day where it's run and gun. In some cases, I just become an obtrusive fly on the wall , in other occasions I'll be more chatty. It depends on the Bride. I've had some who have said they were a bridesmaid at a recent Wedding and the Videographer just never shut up, so I was asked not to be talkative as they were stressed enough as it was and didn't want to hold down a conversation for camera. So it's really a case by case scenario.

I still cannot fathom what so called experienced film students actually learn at "film school"
Chris

amen to that - I've had more than a few students from tafe or uni 'film school' and sometimes I'm lucky if they know where the big red button is - how anyone can graduate from a course and not know enough to at least work in the industry at a capable level is a terrible indictment on our education system

I suppose most film school students want to be directors and aren't technically minded. Also, schools can be very reluctant to let students touch the cameras without supervision.

Maybe the more general question is: should this sort of thing be taught in a university context at all? Isn't it better to learn it on the job?

Similar case with law, incidentally. When it was first introduced at university, the lawyers complained that it was a practical subject; universities tended to respond, 'Sure, but we'll approach it from a theoretical perspective." And to this day I don't know how well studying law at university equips you to actually practise it...

I'm sure glad it isn't just me being ultra fussy but sheesh if you spend 4 years at Uni doing a film and video course surely you learn some basics?? maybe these people exclude the camera side of things totally as suggested and it's just the production/artistic side???

When I last advertised for an assistant I was flooded with ladies in their 20's all professing to be experts in the field!!

I would still think that simply common sense might prevail when they see all the blinding light from the window and the silhouetted figures of the subjects and think ...maybe that's not right!! I bet if they were taking a pic on their iPhone they would see the error ..but then maybe not.

That's why I have ended up alone on shoots but at least I'm the only person that can ruin the shot!!

Chris

I spent six years sub contracted to a college, to run a national diploma in Media Production. Students were mainly school leavers hoping to go to Uni after their college course. As I was sub contracted from my own recording studio and video business, I made the course hands on, with students handling the cameras from day one. All of the two year course was based on video projects, involving researching, scripting, story boarding, directing, filming and editing. All assignments were written by me, to comply with the examining board guidelines.

The students produced several productions each term, including graphics and animations, frequently working with local businesses to produce short documentaries, with the last project of the course always being the filming of a live fashion show. This involved interviews with fashion students, following them through the design stages and finally the whole team manning three cameras, live mixing, talkback, audio recording and direction of a one hour fashion show. the whole thing was edited and marketed to students and parents complete with student designed sleeves and labels.

My important point here is that I lost count of the number of students that went on to film production and related degree courses at uni, and came back to me complaining that they never reached the level that they were achieving at college. Their main comments were that the uni courses were overloaded with research and paperwork, analysing films and critiquing mainstream productions. Very little time was spent actually producing anything worthwhile, and a fair proportion of my ex students left their uni courses thoroughly disillusioned.

Roger

Good for you, Roger. Its nice to hear about the effort you put in.

Having been sort of self-teaching the last year, I can see how starting with learning the basics of your camera by picking it up, then slowly adding in more complex concepts makes the most sense.

The first time I picked up my camera, I didn't need to consider if getting the camera to look up at someone will make the composition better as opposed to just learning exposure properly first. Now that I'm getting much better at exposures and DOF elements, I can add in other concepts, though.

I went to school and got a degree in Radio Television and Film with an emphasis on Film (so it's almost film school). The first two years I hardly touched a camera, plus we still had to take the normal academic classes (math, science, language, etc.).

The actual "film" part of it had a huge variety of classes from film theory, history of film, documentary film making (which was mostly learning how to finance a film), to actual production. In my experience you got out of film school whatever you put in to it. I learned more from actually doing video work than I did from the classes them self. Except for the film theory class, fantastic professor! Probably my hardest class in all of college.

The people who were spending their weekends learning the equipment and making their own films outside of class were the ones that excelled. The people who were just doing what were required were the ones that didn't.

We're drifting a bit off the topic of bride/groom prep...

We're drifting a bit off the topic of bride/groom prep...

The thing with film students is that they learn a lot of theory. But the only way to be a better shooter is... to shoot more.

Anyway, back to the main topic. I am an extreme introverts and interacting with bride/groom have always been a problem for me. How do you guys introduce yourself to bride/groom? and do you direct them for you to get better shots?

I agree that groom's prep is wayyyyyy harder than bride's prep. Whenever anybody requests groom's prep, I specifically ask them to have something prepared for the boys to do. I once had a group sit down and play a game of cards over a quick drink before getting dressed - that turned out great.

I once had a second shooter film a groom's party that turned out to be a complete trainwreck. They were already full dressed and ready by the time he got there, and everybody was so painstakingly uncomfortable that I would have loved to throw all the footage out.

My keys to getting brides and bridesmaids to relax around you and to smile a lot is to do the same to them - stay completely relaxed and stay happy, be a little chatty but only when the camera isn't rolling.

I never direct or pose, just shoot what's happening.

I introduce myself and tell them why I'm there and what I'll be doing - I show them the camera and shoot a bit of footage on telephoto to show them - "see I'm not filming you, I'm filming the beer on the table" I stress they should ignore me - "just do what you were doing"

I'll tell them that I'll be filming while they're getting dressed but all I want is a bit of ties being done up, shoelaces tied - all close up small stuff. guys are usually pretty relaxed around me - I guess if you feel a little uncomfortable that will show.

The only time I might have a problem is if they really don't want to be filmed - if they start moving out of the way of going to other rooms I tell them straight - "you might not like to be filmed but this isn't about you - it's about the bride & groom and what they want - the more you avoid me, the more I'll concentrate on you - let's just get it over with" - said with a smile

explain to them what going to happen with the footage - the end result, talk about how the groom can sit back in 10 years time and remember the day and the time spent with the guys.

it is harder to find stuff to shoot but there's always something,