The XA-20, after my first wedding and reception, performed well.

20X zoom is very nice. Auto focus is superior to the XA10 in low light. Image quality in low light is much less noisy, much more pleasing.

The sensor is clearly superior to the XA-10, this was not hype by Canon, this is a much improved camera.

Thanks for the report Jeff. Been watching these Canons since the XA10. It appears most, if not all the rough spots have been iron out.

The XA-20, after my first wedding and reception, performed well.

20X zoom is very nice. Auto focus is superior to the XA10 in low light. Image quality in low light is much less noisy, much more pleasing.

The sensor is clearly superior to the XA-10, this was not hype by Canon, this is a much improved camera.

I'm pretty pleased with my XA20. It looks like Canon actually listened to some of us who said they would have liked to have seen the next iteration of the XA10 come with a rocker-style zoom control, a longer lens, and a viewfinder that articulates, because all of those features showed up in the XA20. The viewfinder is a real treat to use because even though it's small, it's very clear and bright and definitely usable for critical focusing. Plus, the viewfinder stays active even when the LCD display is active, so you're not forced to turn off the display to be able to access the viewfinder.

I also find that the viewfinder is useful for helping me make settings changes on the fly if the LCD panel becomes a bit hard to read in bright sunlight. I simply place my finger on the control that is displayed on the LCD, and then look into the viewfinder as I adjust the control on the LCD panel. The added bonus is if that doesn't work, I can use the little joystick that sits next to the 'start/stop' button that sits on the back of the handgrip and make adjustments that way. Giving users this many choices makes changing settings a lot less fiddly than is the case on the XA10.

When the excellent image quality of the XA20 is factored in, this new camera from Canon easily beats anything from Sony or Panasonic in its price range. Absent the 4:2:2 50Mb/s codec and the ability to set and store custom picture profiles, the XA20 is easily the equal of the XF100.

Lately I've been wondering if Canon might be mulling over the possibility of discontinuing the XF100 and introducing an XA30 model that has 4:2:2 and the higher data rate, or possibly even selling XA20/25 owners a firmware upgrade that will permit at least a 4:2:2 colour space, even if 50 Mb/s isn't feasible due to the limitations inherent in SD cards. It seems to me that this would be a natural progression for the XA series.

Steve, I am interested in your comments regarding the XF100. I had a look at the XA manual and was disappointed to find the lack of image controls available and that the better codecs were not available in cinema mode. This is a big minus to me and can't see how this would allow the camera to be better than the XF100.

I am looking for a camera to go along with the XF300 and color matching is a priority. With the lack of image controls I do not see the XA series as a great option compared to the XF100.

I would be interested to see them tested side by side. Sadly, a purchase of the XF100 right now would not be the best investment as a new model is probably not far off.

The XA-20, after my first wedding and reception, performed well.

20X zoom is very nice. Auto focus is superior to the XA10 in low light. Image quality in low light is much less noisy, much more pleasing.

The sensor is clearly superior to the XA-10, this was not hype by Canon, this is a much improved camera.

What's the difference between the XA-20 and the XA-25? The Canon USA website won't let me compare them yet. Is it more than just the HD-SDI port? Imager, lens, CODECs all look the same. Either of them jam sync time code?

And how's the audio on the XA-20? Pre-amp noise?

Just tested my new XA20. So far almost all the changes from the XA10 are positive - the 20x zoom (slightly wider and nearly twice as long), the autofocus, the viewfinder, the absence of rattling buttons on the handle, the ability to pass the input from the built-in mic to channel 2 when using an XLR mic on channel 1, etc. The only step backwards in features is the absence of the 64GB internal memory.

The only flaw I have noticed is that the regular start-stop button (not the one on the handle) makes clicks that are audible through the built-in mic when the ambient sound level is low. For my purposes, this is not a big problem, as I typically record long scenes, but I'll have to remember to edit out the first and last few frames, and this could cause problems when using pre-record (the click would come three seconds into the scene). I suspect this would be a non-issue if using an external mic.

Anyone else observe this problem, and any ideas for a fix?

Bruce, the port is the only difference between the two, I believe. Audio is excellent, I did not notice any undue preamp noise after downloading footage last night.

... the ability to pass the input from the built-in mic to channel 2 when using an XLR mic on channel 1, etc.

Just to make sure I understand this correctly ... we can now use an XLR on one channel and the other for the internal mic? That would be outstanding for me.

Sounds like I need to put a few cameras up for sale and then find the XA-20.

As for adding a rocker control ... why would they have ever left that off the xa-10 is beyond me ... unless to use it as an upgrade for more bucks. :-/

My interest is nature and wildlife, and I was wondering if those that have been testing the camera can give me an idea of how the slow and fast motion features are. I use a JVC camcorder for time lapse and a Sony camcorder(60p) for slow motion stuff. I use my Canon for low light and most of the rest of my video work. It would be nice if the XA-20(or HF-G30) could deliver all these functions so I could leave the other two cameras at home.

I'm getting an XA-20 this week, was considering an XF-100 but since it's an older camera I made the decision to get the newer model. I'll have some time this weekend to run some tests.

Tom,
I have the XA20 & have played a little with the functions you are after.
Firstly, the 60p recorded straight to the card will allow you to both use the footage as is with sound, or slow it down 50% in post. Recording in 60p like this, allows you best of both worlds having the sound.
Recording in slow motion will allow you to record with a frame rate of 23.98 or 29.97 with a 40% or 50% slowmo effect. No sound though & the recording mode can only be a max of 24Mbps.
Recording in quick motion allows you to speed things up essentially the same way as in slomo but going the opposite way, so either 2x speed up or 2.5x speed up depending you your frame rates. Again, no sound recorded in this mode. Unfortunately you cannot select other frame rates to enable further speeding up of the footage in camera but this of course can be done simply in post. Only downside is the extra media recorded to the SD cards.
As for using the camera for wildlife, I too bought it partly for this reason as a much lighter set up than my Sony EX-3. The lens is quite wide at 26.8mm (35mm equivalent) & at 576mm on the long end, it makes a very useful zoom range. I'm also looking at the possibility of using a tele converter for even more reach.
One thing I have noticed that I definitely have to test some more is the 2x electronic extender. On my older HF G10, using this 2x extender was absolutely out of the question, as it was as bad as any digital zoom, however, on the new XA20, from what I have seen so far, the 2x extender is way better, I mean WAY better. I still need to do more tests with it, but so far, I have to say I am impressed.
Hope this all helps,
Regards,
Bryce

Thanks Bryce,
I hope my questions are not deemed as highjacking this thread, since it has to do with how good this camera is.

I had a feeling that the slo and fast features were going to be limited. I may still have to rely on my JVC to do timelapse stuff. The JVC makes it easy, and there's no need to fiddle with it in editing, other than some minor enhancements.

Slow motion will be better with 60 fps, so that will be easy to deal with in editing.

I have considered longer reach bridge cameras for wildlife, because the latest bridge cameras have such a phenomenal range, some are 50x. There doesn't seem to be one that has good video quality at such long telephoto range, and none have a remote jack for remote zoom, focus, and exposure.
I would be very interested in hearing about how the teleconverter works for you. I'm sure it'll reduce light, but with 2.8 aperture there will be some leeway.

You're welcome Tom,
If you really want to get away from taking a bunch of cameras with you, you could always get yourself a Pclix they are a very small control for doing timelapse & will work with the XA 20. Then you have all your bases covered.
As far as the teleconverter, unlike a teleconverter for a DSLR there is no light loss. Not sure how the image quality will be with it on though. I have tried my old Raynox 1.8x converter & the results look pretty good. That one however, is way too heavy to hang off the front of the XA 20 so I was thinking of the Raynox 2.2x Way cheaper too, but i'm not sure of the quality. If I end up getting it, I will let you know how it performs.
Regards,
Bryce

I am glad of all the plethora of good reports on the new XA-20 and the improvements over the XA-10 which I have, except of course the battery incompatibly. I have heard that they have adopted a new system of image stabilization that you can really see the difference and improvement but I have not been able to hear from anyone that is currently using the XA-20 if you can really see the difference from XA-10.

I would appreciate any comments you may have in this regard

Thanks
Luis

jeff, did you use the xa20 as your main camera when filming the wedding? how did it handle it? if not, how do you it would handle being a main camera? what is the image like when compared to a canon dslr (7d, 60d, 700d)? can it handle most situations or is it a bit small and fiddly?

I have heard that they have adopted a new system of image stabilization that you can really see the difference and improvement but I have not been able to hear from anyone that is currently using the XA-20 if you can really see the difference from XA-10.


Try this. Although it uses the HF-G25, the stabilisation on that is the same (I believe) as the HF-G10 / XA10.

Stabilisation Battle: Canon XA20 vs HF-G25 - YouTube

I had a chance to use one for a week of wildlife photography (seabirds). Some notes -

PROS - The 20x is brilliant. For some reason, even on my XH-A1 when I brought the footage into FCP it would go to 1440x1080, so having full HD at 50p (I have the PAL version) is absolutely brilliant. Incredible footage.

The image stabilization is far better than anything I have ever used before (but there may be an issue with power image stabilization, see below)

The 2x digital tele-converter is useful. What I am not sure of yet (but will be checking in the next week) is whether the same thing can be obtained by cropping in post. There is some image degradation (and possible vignetting, oddly enough, see below) but it certainly does not degrade down to SD or worse.

I used a Sony 1.7x teleconverter and it worked fine. I tried it with the 1.7x lens setting (supposed to tell the camera to modify the IS and AF) and without and am not sure I noticed a difference (maybe only works with the Canon lens). The image was slightly softer at full zoom. I have not been able to try my old Century Optics 2x teleconverter as the bayonet mount for the GL1/2 (which the lens was designed for) and the XA-20 are different. Anyone know where I can get some sort of ring to take my old Century Optics bayonet mounts and make them 58mm?

I also tried the 1.7x + the 2x digital. Again, the image was softer but useable. I will try and post some images next week.

Battery life is decent on the stock battery. It took an extra week or so to get a second battery so I had to be battery frugal on this trip.

The focus assist is very nice, especially on birds in flight, to see what the camera thinks it is focusing on.
AF is fast and generally accurate, I noticed very little hunting

CONS - Battery charges ON the camera rather than OFF the camera. Charging batteries off of the camera requires a separate charger.

The obvious position for holding the camera (at least for me) without the handle on, means that one or more of my fingers rest on the left microphone. I will learn to work around this.

A MAJOR drawback is the power off feature (or lack of one). WIth the XH-A1, GL1 and GL2 there was an on/off switch around the start button. In some of my other cameras closing the LCD and pushing in the viewfinder also turns off the camera until one of the two is open. NOT THE XA-20! Even with the LCD and viewfinders closed pressing the start button will start the camera. Not good to lose a lot of battery life filming the inside of the camera bag. So, each time the camera is used the main camera - off - media switch has to be turned on or off.

There are also some odd artifacts in some of the footage. A faint darkening will occur in the top left and right when fully zoomed in. This looks a bit like vignetting (although not entirely). What I am not sure of is whether this is only with the 2.0 digital zoom on, or if it is also occurring on optical zoom only. Also, whether it might be an artifact caused by the power image stabilization. As the artifact is only on some images I suspect it is one or the other, and am leaning toward the power IS or the power IS with digital zoom.

The programmable buttons are not that useful as they are currently programmed. For example, say you want to program a button for the 2.0x digital zoom? You can't, or at least I couldn't figure it out. You can program to go to the zoom menu, but then have to use the touch screen or toggle to go to the 2x zoom on/off. Same is true for many of the other controls. Perhaps a future software upgrade will allow better programming of the buttons to exact menu items.

Finally, the manual suggests there is an IS button. This would be handy to turn power IS off and on but I can't find this button if there is one!

My overall first impressions were good. I'll let you know about second impressions when I have the chance to fully go through the footage shot.

The focus assist is very nice, especially on birds in flight, to see what the camera thinks it is focusing on.
AF is fast and generally accurate, I noticed very little hunting

This is exactly one of the reasons that I am looking to go from my XH-A1 to an XA20. I film a lot of waterfowl hunting and tracking waterfowl in flight on a video camera and keeping them in focus is very difficult. Bird in flight AF is what I am hoping for!

I had pre-ordered the XA20 but cancelled it to wait for a few real world reviews first. Getting closer every day to re-ordering this unit now.

Although it uses the HF-G25, the stabilisation on that is the same (I believe) as the HF-G10 / XA10.

The digital IS is not the same. The (only) problem with the XA10 etc 2073600 px sensor was that it didn't allow any leeway (extra pixels at the edges) for digital IS. The sensor in the G20/25/XA20 fixes this.

That new IS is impressive better than the XA10
thanks for posting

Luis

The digital IS is not the same. The (only) problem with the XA10 etc 2073600 px sensor was that it didn't allow any leeway (extra pixels at the edges) for digital IS. The sensor in the G20/25/XA20 fixes this.

Yes and no. I think the dark ghosting I am seeing in the corners on some of my images is that the power IS is digital on top of the superb optical IS on the XA-20. Under those circumstances there may not be enough extra pixels at the edge, especially if the 2x digital is on.

I hope to perform some tests this weekend where I pay more attention as to which setting is on

The digital IS is not the same. The (only) problem with the XA10 etc 2073600 px sensor was that it didn't allow any leeway (extra pixels at the edges) for digital IS. The sensor in the G20/25/XA20 fixes this.

Not true. The sensor in the G20 / G25 is not the same sensor as in the XA20 / XA25 / HF-G30. It is the same as the one in the HF-G10 / XA10 but with 20% better sensitivity (Canon claims). Both have 2.37Mpixels, 2.07Mpx useable.

It does not have the extra pixels that the newer camcorders do, to assist with stabilisation.

Regards

Digital zoom typically forms the image from a smaller (cropped) central portion of the sensor. It essentailly upscales the cropped image to full frame. It should be less subject to any vignetting caused by the lens because it uses the sweep spot in the center, but results in lower resolution than the full frame of the sensor.

Digital IS typically works in one of several ways. It may shift the portion of an oversized sensor used to form the image as a way to compensate for camcorder movement, it may upscale the frame-sized sensor to form a larger virtual image and then shift the portion it uses to form the image, or it may shift the image on a frame-sized sensor and extrapolate the edge in the direction of the shift. These all could give more obvious vignetting effects. The second two would usually result in some image softening.

Also image settings (e.g., gamma curve adjustment) could exagurate vignetting effects, especially at the limits of lighting conditions and subject matter. Nothing like shooting a flat white wall in auto exposure mode with poor light to demonstrate this.

Bruce, the port is the only difference between the two, I believe.

Yes. I just got confirmation through Canon USA's website tech. support forms -- Canon replied saying that the only thing you get for the extra money of the XA-25 over the XA-20 is the HD-SDI port.

Not true. The sensor in the G20 / G25 is not the same sensor as in the XA20 / XA25 / HF-G30. It is the same as the one in the HF-G10 / XA10 but with 20% better sensitivity (Canon claims). Both have 2.37Mpixels, 2.07Mpx useable.

It does not have the extra pixels that the newer camcorders do, to assist with stabilisation.

Regards

Thanks for that, Mr. David Johns. I had assumed the HF G20 sensor was the same one as in the G30 & XA20 and now I know better. You made me look it up for myself. I can say I recently bought a HF G20 and am very happy with its improved performance over the HF-S200.

HF G10 Sensor: 2.37 Megapixels
HF G20 Sensor: 2.37 Megaxpixels
HF G30 Sensor: 3.09 Megapixels

XA10 Sensor: 2.37 Megapixels
XA20 Sensor: 3.09 Megapixels

Source:
Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : VIXIA HF G10 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/camcorders/high_definition_camcorders/vixia_hf_g10#Specifications)

Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : Consumer Camcorders (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders?pageKeyCode=65&category=0901e02480061144&compare=0901e02480857938&compare=0901e02480752855)

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XA10 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/camcorders/high_definition_camcorders/xa10#Specifications)

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XA20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/camcorders/professional_camcorders/xa20#Specifications)

This camera looks real interesting. There's not much info on the nd filters that I can find (haven't looked through the manual yet) so are the nd filters user select-able or integrated?

Here are 2 tests of the Xa25 vs the GH3:

Canon XA25 vs Panasonic GH3 low light 1080p50 & general comparison - YouTube

Canon XA25 / XA20 vs Panasonic GH3 - YouTube

Hi,

how you judge the the test against the GH3? Probably are my faulty eyes but i find the Xa-25 at the same level of the Gh3. Ok adding exposure filter in FCP rise up noise but also the gh3 isn't free... and remember we are comparing the xa-25 with a DSLR (bigger sensor). Also I can read at 0:05 the "taxi" word better on the xa25

Ugo

In my opinion, the above videos are worthless as comparison videos without knowing the lenses used on the GH3, but more importantly it's apples to oranges. They are mildly interesting, but beyond that, not awfully enlightening.

Nevertheless, I do appreciate anyone who take the time to post video such as these, but in this case I don't see a lot of benefit.

Anyone who has both cameras knows these are not comparable. 1/3 inch sensor vs a nearly 1" sensor is not in the same ballpark.

I have shot with two GH2s and two XA-10s for dozens of weddings, receptions, and corporate shoots. The cameras blend very well in certain situations, particularly in churches. That, however, is where most of the comparability ends. I have seen the XA-10 produce images I like better than the GH2 in a situation or two. But more often than not, the GH2 has more to offer in image quality. The increased dynamic range of the GH2s and GH3s alone put it in a higher bracket than the XA10-20-25. And lest we forget, things often depend on the lighting more than the camera anyway.

As has been said by wiser men than me, these are tools, nothing more. You use the tool you need for the job it is best suited for.

I've just come back from Slovenia and I have to say this is a very impressive camera for wildlife. Oddly enough the vignetting did not re-occur so I am going to have to do some real sleuthing to figure out what it might have been (it might be something as simple as the built in lens cap sagging under certain conditions).

The footage out of this camera easily tops most of the footage out of my XH-A1. I only wish this camera was available a year ago (or two)!

Hi,

other question: the handle still has the rattle noise which effect some xa-10?

Regards

Ugo

When I have had my handle on it did not rattle. It is actually a bit difficult to get off, so I would not want to need to do it in a hurry.

Jeff, what would your choice be between the XF100 and the XA20?

Got mine today! The BP-828 battery did not take 400+ minutes to charge, as indicated in the manual. Perhaps it came with some charge already on it, I didn't check. Went through a lot of the menus setting things up and testing. Haven't assigned a custom button yet; figure I'll wait and see what I access the most. Only complaint so far is startup time is real slow. I agree with others that it needs a sleep mode that will let it wake up quickly when you open the display or hit a button. I would like to see the menu system broken out a little better. The camcorder department needs to talk to the EOS still camera department about how to setup menus. I really like the smart battery indicator telling me remaining power down to the minute. Looking forward to getting some footage into Premiere Pro and seeing what it looks like.

Bob

Menu is same as XA-10, as far as I can tell. I'm also not crazy about it. However, once you repeatedly use the same functions, it's not too bad. Not very logical or intuitive, for sure.

My BP-828 battery indicates a runtime of 238 minutes, and I've drained and charged twice. I will need to return mine asap, but the seller has no more to exchange for!

the XF-100 is a more professional form factor, more suitable for pro use.

XA-20 has 20X zoom and newer sensor. It depends on your needs. I personally would like to have both. Instead I have 2 XA-10s and an XA-20. The lack of buttons on the XA cams is a bummer, but for me it comes down to economics.

Found a new annoyance while shooting today. The custom button/dial cannot be setup to work in both auto and manual. I think this is a stupid decision on Canon's part and it had to be a conscious one because a notice pops up telling you to change modes to use the button/dial. It has capability to be used in either mode but does not switch over automatically when the user changes exposure mode. Still...I'm really enjoying this camera! I hope Canon is paying attention to these tidbits for a firmware update.

Bob

Agreed Bob,
There are some annoyances with this camera for sure. Lets hope Canon do help us out with a firmware update, that would be awesome. I would love to be able to put the camera into standby for one.
There is so much to enjoy about this camera, just a few little tweaks & it would be really great!

Jeff,
What was the problem you were having with the 828 batteries that necessitates the need to return them?

Doesnt last long. 238 mins does not seem right.

Ok, thanks Jeff. That's what I am getting out of the 2 828 batteries I have also. Interestingly, if I put them on the HF G10 I have, they show 290 mins, but when I put a fully charged 827 battery on the HF G10 it shows 240mins which is what I get with the 828 battery on the XA20.
Bryce

Well Bryce, you just saved me unnecessary trouble. I now know the batteries are all like mine. Thanks!

My 828 says 237min on a full charge. That's almost four hours. I'm new to this genre of camera; what would be a more acceptable duration?

Bob

280 mins would be more in line with the XA-10. However, based on Bryce's observations, it sounds like the XA-20 consumes more battery power than the XA-10, or the XA-10 is overestimating it's run time.

Either way, nothing to be done, it is the way it is.

The XA20 is rated for 4.5 watts, the XA10 for 3.0 watts. Expect a corresponding reduction in runtime with the same battery; e.g., a 360 minute batterey in the XA10 should give about 240 minutes in the XA20.

Mine says 197 mins after full charge!

I also think you will find the run time will vary with the settings you have. Eg. using IS & AF along with a 35mbps setting will result in a shorter run time than no IS, Manual focus, & say 24mbps encoding will be a little longer. At least that was my experience while playing around.
Regards,
Bryce

I was curious about battery consumption with the camera on but not being used since there is no standby. With the camera on and a full charge, reading 237min, I closed the display and set a timer for one hour. When the timer went off, I checked the battery and it read 187min remaining. So, though it didn't consume a full hours worth, it does use a lot of juice just sitting there idle.

Bob

It is also interesting that there is no longer an auto power off function. Unless that was the case with the XA10, they have certainly dropped it from the HF G10. One of only a couple of dislikes I have with my EX-3 is the lack of that auto power off & draining batteries when I forget to slide that little switch over. When you are miles from anywhere & you run out of batteries, it is a hard pill to swallow!
Bryce

Thanks Don. You have explained the phenomenon. This accounts why the XA-20 will not run with legacy batteries. The design of the camera apparently called for more than the older batteries could provide.

The big brown truck just dropped my XA-20 off a few minutes ago. I'm like a kid on Christmas morning right now!