Hmm, do I need to re-name this forum?

"Adobe also announced that the company will focus creative software development efforts on its Creative Cloud offering moving forward. While Adobe Creative Suite® 6 products will continue to be supported and available for purchase, the company has no plans for future releases of Creative Suite or other CS products."

Full press release with more info located here:

Adobe Accelerates Shift to the Cloud at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/adobe-accelerates-shift-to-the-cloud.html)

Bad news as far as I am concerned as I am no fan of this recent cloud approach!

Hmmn, wonder if I need to start looking at FCPX...and yes, in time, I guess this forum section will need a new name!

Unfortunate news for those of us who wanted to make the yearly CS upgrades. A significantly more expensive option.

I think that will be a good thing for Avid in the long run. I'm not a fan of the cloud / eternal subscription business model myself.

I want a cure not a treatment.

I just scanned about 100 comments on one website in reaction to this news - yeah, I know, I should get out more ;-)

I would say ONLY about 5 were happy with this. Those that recently bought CS6 were particularly unhappy. Just glad I stuck with CS5.5.2 - I was about to buy CS6! What a waste of money that would have been with this new subscription only approach.

Not sure how this affects someone running it on a laptop, remote from any internet connection. That could be a showstopper for me if it has to have an internet connection to even run. Would mean I'd have to carry a second NLE for non online work. Not likely to happen. I'm surprised they went to this model. They sent out an extensive survey a few months back. I can't believe that their users approved this model. I know I didn't.

Adobe wants you to pay them for the rest of your life or you lose your files.

No more upgrading when things stabilize. No more working with an older suite until you can make enough to upgrade to the latest and greatest. No more selling and transferring your older suites when you buy a newer one. No more backward compatibility.
They tried releasing a new .5 upgrade every 6 months, but I guess people weren't tricked into thinking they needed to upgrade. Now we will all be forced into it.

Not going to do it.

The corporate arrogance that near-monopoly brings. those who do not listen to the lessons of history will repeat them. - My guess is Adobe as a NLE has about 8 to 10 years before it becomes a feather duster after provoking something like RED out of the NLE wildness. Who knows? Mr. Jannard himself might even venture a little further and get into the alternative NLE business.

I do thank Adobe for responding to me in a timely manner but am not pleased with the response:

Eric Stemen:

I was told to send a private message. About a comment I posted.

(This is the comment I posed on their Facebook page)

"Could we get the regular yearly upgrade cost for the regular CS suites ($300) and not get the entire master collection? I purchased CS6 Production Premium last year for $1000(upgraded from CS3) and was planning on just doing yearly upgrades at ~$300 for Production Premium and now looks like it will be $600 a year to stay up to date. I would get more programs, but I don't need the extra ones. Will not be upgrading if they don't price this more in line with the older cycle."

I don't mind paying $300 a year for a hobby and I understand small price increases due to inflation. I would really like to be able to keep paying for just the Production Premium for the foreseeable future and I would be a very happy and loyal customer. I was planning on upgrading every year from here on out and not skipping generations since I have a decent paying job now. I'm alright with not being able to use the product if I quit paying for it.

My Adobe ID is:
*adobe ID name*

I appreciate your willingness to talk with me.

5:38pm
Adobe Creative Suite:

Hi Eric - thanks for the message. The only way to receive new updates and features is through Creative Cloud.

In terms of pricing, since you are an Adobe user, you can receive Creative Cloud for 40% off. Here are the details on the offer: http://adobe.ly/10eKBZd.

6:02pm
Eric Stemen:

Thank you for the reply, that deal does sound fair, however what happens after the first year? Will the price jump up to $599.88 a year instead of the $359.88 a year with the special offer? The $359.88 is fine, that is roughly what I was expecting to pay each year for the CS upgrades. I wasn't expecting to pay almost double for that. I want to keep supporting innovative products but this is kind of like what happened with Apple and FCP X. They changed everything all at once and for loyal customers no longer had an incentive to stay. I sadly will not be joining the cloud if the price jumps to $599.88 a year after the first year.
Respectfully,
Eric.

6:15pm
Adobe Creative Suite:

Hi Eric - as of now, the offer is valid for just one year. Any updates on that front will be shared on Adobe.com. Thanks.

6:17pm
Eric Stemen:

I appreciate your response, best of luck in the future.

I'll put my 2 cents in here...

As a long time adobe user who can't afford the full product suite, I think the cloud option opens up opportunities to a huge group of users who would otherwise NOT pay $2000+ for the full suite. At $50 a month with all updates, forever, it's not that bad. I am not sure where the $300 for upgrades comes from, I've seen the full suite at around $2000+ and upgrades from one version to the next (yearly) at around $650. At those prices, the yearly price of $600 for all updates, all versions, all software is a steal.

That said, I will agree that their model is really screwed up. The full suite is a great price in my opinion. But to offer a single app license at $30 a month, and the full suite of what, 10+ apps for $50.. is ridiculous. They really should offer a custom approach where each app is like $5 a month, or at least on some sort of sliding scale. For example, the Video peeps, should be able to get premiere and AE at say $20 a month. Or for full audio/video, throw in Grade, Encore and Audition for say $30 a month. For photographers, offer Photoshop, Light room for like $20 a month, and for web designers, include dreamweaver, illustrator and stuch for maybe $30 a month.

If Adobe is listening.. I sure hope they offer a lower price for specific apps or some sort of a la carte option at a lower price. Right now they are basically pissing off a lot of people by forcing them for the all or nothing option. Two apps at $30 a month is stupid.. because for $10 less you get ALL of the apps. It's just really a bad way to go in terms of ALL for $50 and one for $30.

I for one would only want AE, Premiere and Photoshop (and Media Encoder I suppose, but that should be free with AE and/or Premiere). I'd pay $25 a month for life for just that combo..but $50 is double and a bit more than I want to pay.

Not so sure about it but could it be that running software through a "cloud" prevents anyone to run a pirated copy off-line? It's a known fact that adobe's software is very popular in the illegal circuit, their move to a cloud could put a full stop to anyone not willing to pay for it. Not that they can expect all these people to start getting a subsription but as a software supplier this kind of copy protection is a big deal so that could be one of the reasons for this drastic change.

I have been working with adobe premiere up to cs3 but made the switch to edius then. I just checked out their cloud pricing options for Premiere only and it would mean paying for a full version about every 3 years, I think that with other nle's it would cost about half that price to stay up to date.

I also wonder what effect it might have if your internetconnection is down for a few days, would that mean that the software won't work?

I keep seeing posts asking, "What if I don't have Internet for a day or two? Will I not be able to work?"

You do need Internet connection to download the apps (or update them as new features are available) but annual members (paying monthly) only need to "check in" with Adobe every 180 days. It's the month-by-month people who need to check in every 30 days, and even then there is a 7 day grace period.

From past history, I skipped a CS version too. But when CS6 came out (I had CS5 not 5.5), the Creative Cloud was the best option for me. I owned and updated both Design Premium AND After Effects. Now, I have everything and have been a very happy CC customer.

I'd also point out that you get all of Adobe's services too. That includes Business Catalyst for 5 sites. That's a big deal in itself, especially if you're paying $20/mo on hosting elsewhere.

The 20GB of storage is great too. I've never even thought about buying extra DropBox space. And the Creative Cloud Files function just like DropBox on your system. I will say sharing on DropBox has been easier, but Adobe seems to have cracked that nut with the latest reveals (folder sharing and commenting!)

It's a lot more than the apps, and that more than justifies it for me.

$50/mo for all that, compared to my iPhone data and tethering (AT&T). What seems like the better value?

I'll put my 2 cents in here...

That said, I will agree that their model is really screwed up. The full suite is a great price in my opinion. But to offer a single app license at $30 a month, and the full suite of what, 10+ apps for $50.. is ridiculous.




Actually, it's only $19.99 for individual apps. So Photoshop CC (the extended version) would be $19.99/mo and still include file storage and Bridge (from what I can tell).

I moved to Adobe CS 6 from FCP 7 after the FCP X disaster. I will now be moving back and
learning FCP X. One customer Adobe has just miffed and lost right here.

I for one will not be upgrading to the cloud. Damned if I will be losing my money to move to a system where I will lose access to my software if I stop paying the rent.

I just can't believe how they can shoot themselves in the foot like this when they've capitalised so well on the FCPX debacle. Adobe have become the new Quark ... and it didn't take long.

Andrew

Adobe have a problem. As the years go on the improvements to each version of the software becomes smaller and smaller. People don't just jump to the latest versions anymore. Additionally Adobe's profits become centred around a spike generated by each new CS release. Which is I guess why they moved to yearly updates.

The solution for them is to move to a rental model that harks back to the days of large UNIX mainframes where you just rented the software. This gets rid of the revenue spikes and also kills off those pesky users who refuse to upgrade their software every year.

Ignore the "cloud" thing. It's a distraction, window dressing if you will. Premiere, AE, etc all remain the same. Adobe software has long "phoned home" and been able to be remotely deactivated. I knew an editor who it turned out had been using a dodgy serial number who woke up one morning to find his Premiere had been deactivated! So in other words Adobe have had this stuff in place for years and it hasn't impacted us legitimate users.

The problem is that we will now be renting our software. Stop paying and Adobe take it away. Now as an editor this worries me. I still have FCP on this system and perhaps once every 6 months I need to load it up to revise an old project or fetch something. The scary thing with the rental setup is that they are trying to lock you in to Adobe. What if I want Avid somewhere down the line? You'd still have to pay Adobe just to be sure you could open old projects.

This links into my second concern. As any drug dealer worth his salt knows, you give a cheap deal up front and when the user is hooked you whack up the price.....

Now the first year pricing for existing users looks quite attractive. But what about the second year, and the third? While the first year of Cloud may look like a great deal, looking at the pricing I fear users may be in for a nasty surprise a year down the line when they may find the cost could potentially double!

Overall the package looks good. There's lots on offer and if it really did work out at the same or less than I pay for my yearly upgrade then I'd consider it. But Adobe need to give reassurances on pricing and need to have a policy in place where editors can know they can still access their old files even if they have moved on from Adobe (perhaps a special rate to reactivate your entire CS setup for a few days so you can grab files rather than a full month).

It's not so bad.

My upgrade last year from Prod Premium CS5.5 to CS6 cost $569. Our dollar is stronger than the US dollar, yet I believe that our US counterparts were able to upgrade to CS6 for about $300. So I really dreaded what Adobe might be charging the Aussies for an annual Cloud subscription ($1200 maybe?). I'd already set aside $600 for this year's anticipated upgrade to CS6.5, but was afraid I might have to double it for this new Cloud (being the only option now).

But a visit to the Aussie pricing on the Adobe website left me pleasantly surprised. $50/month (annual commitment) means $600 per year, so I'd be no worse off over what I'd be paying (as an Aussie) for a .5 upgrade.

Looking further, it seems that having CS3 or higher entitles me to a $30/month plan, which is $360 per year and a saving of over $200 on last year's upgrade.

That's why, in a very practical sense, I said it's not so bad (for this Aussie, at least). A $200 saving plus 20GB storage plus InDesign (which I now have use for). And I'm looking forward to the new "Sound Remover" feature in Audition CC.

I want Adobe to keep my tools "up with the times" (able to handle the latest codecs and features, etc.) which is why I was fine on paying each year for the annual ".5" upgrade. How else can Adobe afford to pay all their great programmers to keep things up-to-date plus improvements? My guess is that I'm in the minority and that, perhaps, too many have been sitting on CS3 or CS4 (or earlier) and consequently Adobe's viability has necessitated this shift to a cloud-only subscription? Purely a guess on my part and I could be way off.

The only thing which has me edgy is that this model sets up a landlord-tenant relationship where the landlord can, in theory, double the rent without notice. And you either have to "suck it up" or move out.

I've been happily using FCP X for the past 6 months now (went from FCP 6 to Prem Pro to FCP X), but my favourite two pieces of software are now Photoshop and After Effects. Absolutely indispensable to me now. So, as long as the rent stays reasonable, I'll be moving into Adobe's new apartment complex.

You guys are catching on to the real issue. ie ignore the "creative cloud" terminology and think "rental" instead.

Andrew

"Adobe Rental" is what the real name should be. But the marketing department have won out by redefining what everyone else understands "cloud" to be, as "rental".

I suspect a few editors may now sweat their CS6 installs instead of upgrading every year.

Incidentally, presumably they haven't actually launched new versions of the software as yet which makes a mockery of the "special upgrade" price for CS6 users. "Hey idiots, we'll give you a discount if you pay again for something you already have".

I moved to Adobe CS 6 from FCP 7 after the FCP X disaster. I will now be moving back and
learning FCP X. One customer Adobe has just miffed and lost right here.

Our whole studio moved to FCPX. It was never a debacle for us, but a major time savor. You may love the switch! Haha.

Our whole studio moved to FCPX. It was never a debacle for us, but a major time savor. You may love the switch! Haha.

The FCPX argument is irrelevant. CS6 is a suite of software. Premiere is a rather middle of the road editor, but the power comes with the other CS6 applications. After Effects is pretty much a must have for me these days as is Audition. The other tools such as Photoshop aren't so essential but are nicer than the alternatives.

Switching to FCPX doesn't solve the issues. All you've done is replace one editing package with another. It doesn't address the fact I still want the other Adobe applications around and there lies the problem.

If Premiere is the be all and end all for you, then it's not so much of an issue. However many of us have rather come to like having an entire ecosystem to exist within.

The secret to happiness... Low overhead

The secret to low overhead... No monthly payments.

I'll never get on board with this approach.

The FCPX argument is irrelevant. CS6 is a suite of software. Premiere is a rather middle of the road editor, but the power comes with the other CS6 applications. After Effects is pretty much a must have for me these days as is Audition. The other tools such as Photoshop aren't so essential but are nicer than the alternatives.

Switching to FCPX doesn't solve the issues. All you've done is replace one editing package with another. It doesn't address the fact I still want the other Adobe applications around and there lies the problem.

If Premiere is the be all and end all for you, then it's not so much of an issue. However many of us have rather come to like having an entire ecosystem to exist within.

No, it's not irrelevant. Not to me. I will replace CS 6 with FCP X. I will replace After Effects with
Motion. I will replace Photoshop with Gimp or something similar. Switching to FCP X will solve
the issue for at least some of us. Would I like to have the Adobe products? Yup. But I will not
be paying 'rental' for them. I know too well what this type of approach leads to. Just look at your
cell phone and cable bills. If you are hooked into paying for a service, there is much less need
for innovation. With the old approach, there was a big need to improve the software or people
would not buy the upgrade. Now with this approach, they can 'trickle out' new improvements and
still keep people paying. So while FCP may not be a perfect solution, it will work for many of us.
I do my own motion graphics and I'm not an expert by any means....Motion is plenty to do what I
need.

Glad I didn't jump whole-hog to Adobe from FCP7.

Glad I spent time watching the AVID Media Composer demo at NAB.

Glad I think I'm retiring from video production.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

No, it's not irrelevant. Not to me. I will replace CS 6 with FCP X. I will replace After Effects with
Motion. I will replace Photoshop with Gimp or something similar.

It's all rather make do and mend though is't it? Gimp is flawed, Motion is good to a point but I always found it limiting and glitchy.

I've done it the other way around. FCP7 + Motion and other non CS software. It just ate up so much more time. These days I can send sequences to and from Audition and AE with one click. So much quicker and easier.

OK I've scan read about 200 comments on the official Adobe forum about this whilst waiting for a render to complete. Lots and lots of unhappiness...(the render came out fine though!)

One thing that has come up several times (and on this thread here on DVinfo) is the steep pricing those for us in Europe and Oz (for example) as to what we are expected to pay with the monthly subscription model, compared to the $600/year US pricing at the full-rate, which does not seem so bad (i.e. $50/month after the first year - assuming you've been a recent CS owner). The other big worry is who knows what that charge will be in 2014, 2015, 2016...

I know taxes are different in various regions etc. (and in the UK we really get gouged on taxes...don't get me going on that one) but I think Adobe will need to fix at least some of the huge regional imbalances pretty quickly if they don't want to see vast swathes of the globe abandoning their software going forward (or at least using a boxed set until the've switched to something else).

When I switched to CS5.5 from FCS2 with the original FCP X debacle, I really thought Adobe were "listening" to what us video pros wanted...now I'm really doubting that. I've also been using Vegas on and off for years so I'm not exactly worried about switching yet again.

About the only reason I can think of that the've gone this repeated/periodic cloud subscription verification route is to counteract software piracy - I can certainly understand that aspect. However, there must be a better way so that those of us who pay our way don't get gouged whilst still allowing those periodic checks - surely!

I just hope Adobe are listening - heck, perhaps Apple were not so bad after all - compared to this ;-)

This could be a perfect time for Edius, if only Grass Valley would get its marketing act together...

It's all rather make do and mend though is't it? Gimp is flawed, Motion is good to a point but I always found it limiting and glitchy.

I've done it the other way around. FCP7 + Motion and other non CS software. It just ate up so much more time. These days I can send sequences to and from Audition and AE with one click. So much quicker and easier.

Motion worked fine for me, not any more glitchiness than AE. I am not a huge graphic designer
so I dont need the entire feature set of photoshop anyways. Heck I can use
Photoshop 7 and do most of what I need to do. I predict FCP X will soon come
out with Logic integration which will help as well. Yeah the CS integration is nice.
No, I will not 'rent' software to get it. This move by Adobe
had opened a huge opportunity for another company to
step into the void.

It was mentioned briefly in an earlier posting, but one of the benefits of this business approach is to cut down on piracy. Sure, by all means, download the software... just don't expect it to function until you pay your dues.

Although, I've seen that type of stuff hacked on other platforms, so I doubt it will be an effective anti-piracy tool for long.

I really think Adobe lost their direction with this move. Time will tell.

-gb-

Adobe has lost their sense of direction and rips off all their European customers with their pricing structure. See Adobe Community: Adobe, when will you get your pricing structure in order? (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1206829?tstart=0)

OK I've scan read about 200 comments on the official Adobe forum about this whilst waiting for a render to complete. Lots and lots of unhappiness...(the render came out fine though!)

One thing that has come up several times (and on this thread here on DVinfo) is the steep pricing those for us in Europe and Oz (for example) as to what we are expected to pay with the monthly subscription model, compared to the $600/year US pricing at the full-rate, which does not seem so bad (i.e. $50/month after the first year - assuming you've been a recent CS owner). The other big worry is who knows what that charge will be in 2014, 2015, 2016...

I know taxes are different in various regions etc. (and in the UK we really get gouged on taxes...don't get me going on that one) but I think Adobe will need to fix at least some of the huge regional imbalances pretty quickly if they don't want to see vast swathes of the globe abandoning their software going forward (or at least using a boxed set until the've switched to something else).

When I switched to CS5.5 from FCS2 with the original FCP X debacle, I really thought Adobe were "listening" to what us video pros wanted...now I'm really doubting that. I've also been using Vegas on and off for years so I'm not exactly worried about switching yet again.

About the only reason I can think of that the've gone this repeated/periodic cloud subscription verification route is to counteract software piracy - I can certainly understand that aspect. However, there must be a better way so that those of us who pay our way don't get gouged whilst still allowing those periodic checks - surely!

I just hope Adobe are listening - heck, perhaps Apple were not so bad after all - compared to this ;-)

Andy, is there any hard info about pricing outside of America? Adobe's price gouging has been a big issue for me because it is unjustified — I pay 30-50% more for my Adobe apps than people in America. So with this in mind, I tried going through the subscription process as far as I could go without clicking on the final Confirm button. With a perpetual license, I was always forced to the Adobe Oz online store as soon as I signed in (I am in New Zealand), but this didn’t happen. It could be that I’d hit a wall when I got to the stage of entering my credit card number. I was not prepared to venture past that Confirm button to find out. Or it might be one price for all regardless of where you live.

Somebody mentioned the move to the Cloud only model as a possible anti-piracy strategy. I think the pirates will be lining up to be the first to get the kudos of hacking Cloud versions of Adobe’s apps.

Apparently CS6 will remain available with a perpetual license. If all the people who have said they won’t buy into the Cloud keep their word, then that would be an opportunity for third party plug-in vendors to provide their versions of significant future features. Bottom line is that Adobe absolutely knew what the reaction to the Cloud only announcement would be, and are not going to alter their position, so as customers, each of us have to decide how we will deal with it.

There is a 70% discount for the Student Teacher package. So when the Cloud versions become significantly more powerful than CS6, I am thinking of approaching our local tech colleges, and offering my services as a tutor.

Trevor,

See the table in the very first post on the Adobe forum thread linked to by Harm, the post immediately before your post....at least as a likely indication. For example, Adobe CC subscription is (currently) £47 a month in the UK and even more in mainland Europe.

However, as you see, the table only covers US versus EU price comparisons, so someone from Oz or NZ who is already a paid up subscriber will have to enlighten you on what it actually costs in your neck of the woods.

I did read of an Oz price somewhere (I think) but that was in an another Adobe forum thread with about 200 comments.... so not easily found again!

I've been a loyal Adobe customer since I started editing video with CS2.
I understand the concern of preventing piracy, and I have no problem with that.
Like so many others, I don't like the idea of "renting" software, or running the risk of not being able to work for lack of internet access or a down server among what will need to be a gigantic farm.

What DOES concern me the most is if some erroneous CC update somehow slips through testing and a bad version, or one with a major bug, gets unleashed on the entire community, either by accident or on purpose by one of those proverbially "disgruntled employees". (God forbid it turns out to be something that alters CC-stored files). And to compound the situation, I may not know about it for 6 months? Do I correctly understand this: that it's within the realm of possibility that NO ONE working in CC could make any progress until the "bad version" or bug is corrected?

"... more than a half million paid members, and well over 2 million free members have signed up for Creative Cloud".
I can't understand how Adobe is willing to risk stopping so many (and apparently, soon to be all) of it's customers dead in the water AT THE SAME TIME. It may be extremely unlikely, but if it WERE to happen, projects wouldn't just "jump ship"...it seems they'd go down with it.

Personally, I'm both disappointed and upset by this decision, and will have to consider all the options for my particular future.

OK, I've just ordered CS6 Production Premium (Mac upgrade version from the CS 5.5.2 that I'm currently using).

It cost me £298 + VAT plus delivery (from CVP here in the UK - should be back in stock in a few days). For about 300 Quid that buys me and my business a bit of stability for the next year or two and most importantly for me it comes on discs in a box. I can still use it in 5 years time - if I so wish.

Not a pleasant decision but one I felt "forced" to make - no thanks to Adobe. However, it's simply a business decision. I for one will NOT be going the monthly rental route.

Why throw (more) money at Adobe now??? Well Adobe have at least "promised" that they will keep CS6 updated with bug fixes and able to work on the next OS versions that are coming (for both Mac and Windows). Time will tell if they keep those promises...but for sure there will be a LOT of eyes on that. So if they wish to retain (regain?) ANY credibility I'm sure they will. Sure, future "new features" will only come to the CC version but I'm OK missing out on those - or will find other solutions as needed.

As to whether or not Adobe will get any more money from me depends on how they handle this whole "Adobegate" debacle. It's looking pretty unlikely right now.

In the meantime, I don't have to worry (too much) about using my current main NLE tool of choice for the next 1-2, maybe 3 years...who knows after that! I suspect this leaves a huge opportunity for Apple and some others mentioned earlier to exploit really well - maybe FCP X will evolve into the tool I really want, or others will in this newly created void. Heck, I still have clients who occasionally need editing work to update films done 3-5 years ago in FCP 6.0.6 and I have stuff done in Vegas Pro too!

I'm sure some of you think I'm mad but that's my solution to this mess. A "one off" payment of £300 and then I can sit tight, at least for a while.

Now, back to editing!

First.. was the yearly upgrade price actually cheaper than the monthly cost of the new subscription model? Maybe I read wrong, but I thought the update from CS 5 to CS 5.5 was like $595 or something (US anyway). If they come out with another upgrade 6 months from now and you gotta pay that then you're already paying more than the yearly cost.

Second, while I won't hold my breath, I suspect that with this model, they're planning on more frequent updates.. hopefully not just bug fixes but feature additions. Like I said.. don't hold your breath, but maybe they will pleasantly surprise.

Third, the main reason.. really the only reason I think it's not such a great deal is because you either pay for 2 apps or ALL apps, that's it. Yet, in various segments of the industry, I could see three or four of the apps being a great deal at like $20 a month. I for one use Audacity for audio.. not "as good" as Audition, but good enough. I really only use Premiere, AE sometimes, and Photoshop, with MediaEncoder (which should not be charged for in any package). I'd love to pay $20 a month for those three main apps with an optional $5 a month for Encore and just do a one time pay from time to time to use it when I am ready to burn a movie and make a slick dvd/bluray menu.

Now a question for those that may have tried Vegas... the Sony Vegas 12 Pro suite looks really good. I don't know if any of the apps in it compare, but I do know that Sound Forge was (is?) one of the best audio apps out there. I've read/heard good things about Sony's NLE, including better support for formats like RED, DNxHD, etc.. which surprised me given Adobe's stature in this industry. The 12 Pro comes with a very slick AE like app called HitFilm. It's not quite as powerful in some ways as AE (probably in many), yet it looks like it would be much faster to work with in most indie film (and hobbyist) work, including various easy to add FX, movie look, flares, particles, and tons of 3D models to work with. For the price, it looks to be a very good deal when compared to the full suite of Adobe's offering.

Sadly, nothing can come close to the LightRoom/Photoshop one/two punch for photo editing.

If they offered an a la carte option at $5 per app and you could pick/choose the apps you want, I'd be on board. But this $50 a month, while not steep, I don't need or use more than half the apps so for me it's a waste.

Who else forces you to pay monthly for a lot of things you don't want, to get one or
two things you do want? Cable companies. You can't pick the 3 or 4 channels you
want and only pay for them, you must buy the 'America's top 40' package or
something similar. I can see exactly where this CC thing is headed. Like I keep
saying, look at cell phone and cable service for clues to the future of Creative Cloud.

Trevor,

See the table in the very first post on the Adobe forum thread linked to by Harm, the post immediately before your post....at least as a likely indication. For example, Adobe CC subscription is (currently) £47 a month in the UK and even more in mainland Europe.

However, as you see, the table only covers US versus EU price comparisons, so someone from Oz or NZ who is already a paid up subscriber will have to enlighten you on what it actually costs in your neck of the woods.

I did read of an Oz price somewhere (I think) but that was in an another Adobe forum thread with about 200 comments.... so not easily found again!

Andy and Harm

I've spent a lot of time trying to tie down CC pricing for Oz and NZ, and I honestly don't think there is a price hike for us. It took me a while because I was constantly being redirected away from the Adobe.com/au and adobe.com/nz sites, and seeing pricing in US dollars. But I did finally find what appears to be a clear and definitive price, and my position regarding CC is definitely softening. (See attached screen grab)

The Oz$ was, near as damn it, identical to the US$ five minutes ago, so I can get the entire CC for US$20 a month for the first year, because I own CS6 apps. Heck, that's cheap as chips! It works out at about NZ$740 a year which is a small fraction of what it would cost me to update my Adobe perpetual license apps. It cost me more than that just to update Photoshop from CS5 to CS6 (I was buying individual apps back then).

It seems to me that I can join the Cloud in Mid July, and for US$600 get a whole year to see what I think of it. That would maximise the time for possible updates, and I'd still have my CS6 products to evaluate the Cloud against, and to fall back on if I am not convinced.

To put it in perspective, I used to pay NZ$40/month for my cell phone and 'very' limited data plan that I almost never used. (I swapped that to a pay as you go months and months ago, and am still using the $40 credit I had on it.)

Yesterday I paid NZ$25 for 500Gb of data for my iPad SIM, but I am rarely away from a WiFi source.

I pay (about) NZ$80/month for my 120Gb broadband plan, and won't even blink at $120/month when UFB get's switched on some time this year.

My truck is single handedly trying to use up the world's remaining energy reserves, and while I will admit to a slight feeling of unease at the NZ$170 it cost to fill the tank way more often than I'd like (at least three times a month) there is no way I am going to do without my gear transporter that goes anywhere.

So US$19/month is not worth a second thought, and $50/month really isn't the end of the world, _AND_ it works out less than it would cost me to keep up with perpetual license updates. Unless I have got it very wrong somewhere, I think I shall be signing up.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Kevin and Andy over this. I already own CS6 versions of Premiere, Audition and Photoshop - and these are the only Adobe offerings for which I haver the slightest use.

Photoshop and Audition in their present form do all that I want, though I do miss the odd feature in Audition that went AWOL when Adobe went for the MAC market a couple of years ago. But I also have Audition CS3, so no worries there. I expect that Adobe will add new features over the years, but do I need them? Not really, I am sure there are better ways of spending my money than lining the pockets of Adobe shareholders and executives.

Unfortunately Premiere CS6 is not so clear cut. The spanned AVCHD fiasco is an occasional major problem, and I do like the Warp Stabiliser. For some clips it is better than Mercalli - e.g. it avoids the jello effect on shots such as a seal on a rock with a choppy sea background. But in its present form, it is a pain to use. There is the project file bloat, the ticktime error, and the delay when cutting a clip with the effect applied from the sequence, and more. I get round the project file bloat by exporting corrected clips to a Lagarith AVI, so I can live with this too.

Then there is the usual Adobe rip-off of non-US customers who have to pay significantly more for the same download from the same server - see Harm Millard's analysis of prices for a range of European countries to appreciate this.

The only problem is future Windows evolution, and CS6 compatibility, but I do not like the way Windows is going either - I have neither smart phone nor tablet, and cannot conceive of a situation where I might have such devices. So Windows 7 is all I need here. If in time to come when Microsoft abandon support and there are no more security patches, then my editing system will have to be disconnected from the internet, and I shall use either my laptop or my wife's computer for internet purposes.

So, I have been an Adobe customer for thirteen years, but this is unlucky thirteen for them, and the end of the line for me as an Adobe customer.

Alan, I'll be interested to hear where Harm got his data, because if you look at the screen grab in the last post, you'll see it cost the same in Oz and NZ as in the USA. (OZ and US dollars are within 0.1% of each other today.)

It would _almost_ be worth the cost to fix the Canon MXF files with AE issue, and I have to admit to being excited to try the new Photoshop deblur tool.

If I sign up, I will view it as costing me $600 for a year's evaluation of the Cloud. If the service and new features are good enough, I'll decide where to go from there.

Interestingly Editshare decided to go with what they term as an annual lease or subscription for the Pro version of Lightworks. This gets you the annual license to use commercial codecs and other features, if you don't renew you can continue to use the free version. Many users use third party transcoding software with the free version, so it's never been an issue for them.

To date there hasn't been many complaints, although if you don't want to buy into this method I guess you don't get involved. In pure cost terms the Lightworks model does make sense for the user. However, you do need other software like AE if you want heavy duty effects work, since Lightworks is primarily an editing program with more limited range of effects.

About the only reason I can think of that the've gone this repeated/periodic cloud subscription verification route is to counteract software piracy - I can certainly understand that aspect. However, there must be a better way so that those of us who pay our way don't get gouged whilst still allowing those periodic checks - surely!


Piracy has nothing to do with it. New versions will be cracked and out there within a week as usual.

This is all about stopping revenue spikes around new releases and stopping people hanging onto old versions without upgrading. It also does away with retailers who want their cut.

The only problem is future Windows evolution, and CS6 compatibility, but I do not like the way Windows is going either

Rumour has it a future update to Windows 8 may back off from the touch screen approach and give more of a traditional Windows feel. It seems when customers vote with their wallets, large corporations do listen.

Meanwhile people would do well to note that the apps in the "Cloud" are still the same as CS6. So don't get sucked in by Adobe's special offers as you'll pay paying twice for the same thing if you already have CS6. Yes there are some extras but your basic Premiere etc hasn't been updated as far as I can see.

This is all about stopping revenue spikes around new releases and stopping people hanging onto old versions without upgrading. It also does away with retailers who want their cut.

Also stops you shopping around for the best deal. I bought a new anti virus program disk on line from a well known retailer, rather than downloading directly from the maker, there was quite a price difference.

Actually, Marcus I did not write that line in your post two above this about future Windows evolution/the way it's going. You have miss-quoted me somehow....

That's not to say I don't agree with it - I just don't want to be accused of stealing others thoughts!!!! ;-)

All a great discussion, by the way. Just hope Adobe reads it (but I doubt it'll change their path).

Sorry Andy. No idea how that happened!

The quote came from the penultimate paragraph of my post #39.

Here's an interesting read:

Adobe is killing Creative Suite; here’s why (http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/06/rip-cs/#ciDJybJRdaK7DmAJ.02)

Since its launch, Adobe’s Creative Cloud has clearly indicated where the company’s future lies. But no one expected the company to get rid of Creative Cloud’s predecessor, Creative Suite, quite so soon.


Includes an interview with Scott Morris, Adobe’s director of product marketing.

It says "they will all be transitioning from bought-and-owned software at $200 or $700 or $2,000 a pop to the Creative Cloud subscription model, which can cost as little as $20 per month."

But according to the EU prices if I only want to get Premiere I"m paying for a full version every 3 years and if I stop "renting" I"m left with nothing. It actually means once you are using the creative cloud you are locked for life, stop paying the subscription and you can't open any older projects anymore. Adobe is trying to make it sound much better then it is.

What this all means is that Adobe will cease development of new Creative Suite programs for retail boxed distribution. The current CS6 releases will continue to be supported with future critical bug fixes for the time being. Some of the cool new features in the Creative Cloud-only programs will eventually filter down to the Elements programs, which will continue to have new boxed retail releases for the time being.