Unfortunately once a software company has made the perfect software for some people, their sales drop...if they make the perfect software for everyone, they're out of business...

Well, it's more like a feedback loop. New software provides new capabilities and the new capabilities generate the need for additional functionality. Also, hardware capability increases over time, making previously impractical algorithms possible. At least that's how it should work.

Adobe has been feeding their investors this monetization plan for some time but I think they're about to have a J.C. Penney moment.

Adobe has been feeding their investors this monetization plan for some time but I think they're about to have a J.C. Penney moment.

Only time will tell if it was the right decision or not. Who'd have guessed that FCPX would have recovered any credibility at all in a couple short years?

FCPX may have gained some cred, but Apple has shown it's interest is in being a consumer products company now and can't be depended on to maintain a sensible software migration strategy. Buying a bunch of licenses for a media organization should probably get a manager fired.

One thing I'm not quite clear on with the Cloud:

If I sign up to a yearly plan, what happens at the end of the 12 months? Do I need to resign for another 12 months to keep the price at $50? Or can I keep paying the $50 on a month-to-month basis like what happens at the end of my 12 month internet or phone plan?

Part of my video work is directing/engineering video for conferences. And in these varied conferences, I've seen a lot of 'subscription based income' models being put forward in not only software but other more fluid or service based industries. Microsoft is doing the same thing with their 'Office' suite. And Tim Kolb and others make a good point; what do you do when you start running out of 'wiz-bang' features that seem to add mostly useless bloat?

Like it or not, I have a hunch you'll see more of it in other areas, (not necessarily production related) as well. Methinks we've been living under the "May you live in interesting times" curse and this is one more manfestation of it. But for me, the jury is still out on whether this will be a good thing or not.

Brian, a point I have made in other forums, is that some of the features in recent Photoshop upgrades have saved me many hours of processing time. The RAW processing engine in Photoshop CS5 was good, but I'd feel crippled without ACR7. Same thing with the Content Aware features. Heck, some of those don't so much save time, as make it possible to do things you simply couldn't do in earlier versions. The cost of a single app subscription could easily be earned in a single day. In fact, the cost of a full range subscription ($600) shouldn't be too hard to recoup. On that basis, I am sure my Photoshop upgrades have easily paid for themselves over the years.

I suspect it really depends on what you're using your Photoshop for. If you're making full use of it's capabilities it becomes worthwhile, however, if you're using it for basic graphic or image manipulation it might be harder to justify upgrading every year.

It may be a case selecting the correct subscription for your needs. You may find that just having Premiere and A.E. covers most of your needs and GIMP meets your Photoshop requirements. It depends on how often you're using each application and the market you're working in. A short term subscription on a individual application may also work.

I know the use of the cloud for collaboration has been discussed for a number of years, how useful it is may vary depending on individual work practises and if decision makers rather be down in the hotel bar or watching your latest cut. .

FCPX may have gained some cred, but Apple has shown it's interest is in being a consumer products company now and can't be depended on to maintain a sensible software migration strategy. Buying a bunch of licenses for a media organization should probably get a manager fired.

That argument is getting really old. People were saying that 2 years ago when FCPX was launched. In the meantime people have been cutting video with FCPX from day one, and Apple has been releasing regular and free updates continuously since then to make the product better.

FCPX is one the best selling Apps on the App store, it has pretty much every feature editors wanted, and its very fast and quite stable.

At $299 it also happens to be one of the least expensive options out there.

Add in Motion at $50 and you have a complete bargain of a package. Bear in mind that Apple does not penalize people from other countries, so users in the UK and Australia are essentially paying the same amount as people in the US for the software.

Motion makes it easy to design templates; so there is a huge eco-system of 3rd party plug-ins for FCPX, as well as plug-ins from the major developers like Red Giant etc.

Pixelmator is not as good as Photoshop, but at it does most day-to-day tasks that the majority of casual Photoshop users use, and at $15 its a steal.

So FCPX at $299, Motion at $50, & Pixelmator at $15 works out at a grand total of $364 for a full video & Photo and effects editing package with a perpetual license. Throw in Resolve Lite for grading if you need it for free.

Horses for courses, but I wonder why people are still complaining about FCPX?

I don't question the capability, only the ongoing support for a product that may get EOLed with little warning by a fickle company. Consumers forget and businesses mitigate risk. The entire NLE sector provides an interesting risk analysis.

It may be a case selecting the correct subscription for your needs. You may find that just having Premiere and A.E. covers most of your needs and GIMP meets your Photoshop requirements. It depends on how often you're using each application and the market you're working in. A short term subscription on a individual application may also work.


That's more or less how my collection of Adobe apps has grown, but now two single app subscriptions brings you $5/month short of the full CC package, so it makes sense to subscribe to just one, or them all.

Here is a link to a new survey on Creative Cloud. I would urge everyone to fill out.
Survey: Is Adobe Creative Cloud subscription worth the price? | Business Tech - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57584302-92/survey-is-adobe-creative-cloud-subscription-worth-the-price/)
It's a quick survey, and if we don't let them hear our voices though every means possible, we can't bitch about it.

I ran through that CNET survey. Quick? Yes. Superficial? IMO, definitely. Oddly, it seems more like a marketing survey than a real "pulse of the people" inquiry, but if nothing else it may help a CNET author produce an article.

Maybe Adobe is aware of, or will notice, that survey. In any case, I know Adobe and just about every other video/cinema related concern follow DV Info Net very closely. I believe the discussions here are much more powerful than a 2 minute surveymonkey thingee for a computer web site.

You can use them at the same time with the new EULA coming out. See the FAQ "Getting Started" section which states you can do this: Adobe Creative Cloud ? FAQ (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html)


Thank you, Kevin. That's brilliant.

It's excellent that products will run for 90 days if not synced with Adobe.

Here's my 'first impression' report: Adobe Creative Cloud First Impressions. Also, how do you get started? (http://wolfcrow.com/blog/adobe-creative-cloud-first-impressions-also-how-do-you-get-started/)

Here's my 'first impression' report: Adobe Creative Cloud First Impressions. Also, how do you get started? (http://wolfcrow.com/blog/adobe-creative-cloud-first-impressions-also-how-do-you-get-started/)

Thanks for that Sareesh. That was useful.

Sareesh, I appreciate your blog, but you're only addressing a fraction of the potential problems. Look on the Adobe forums right now. There are people who have lost service for 3 days. I've had the master collection since they started the suite option, so the cost is not the biggest issue. This actually goes far beyond the cost of the service, and the deeper you go, the worse it gets for the end user. This is especially bad for the casual user.

Sareesh, I appreciate your blog, but you're only addressing a fraction of the potential problems.

Rob, no worries. I can't conjure up problems that I haven't encountered yet!

I'm sure many will have issues, as I expect to have, too. It's for Adobe to sort out its issues with its customers.

They shouldn't forget the exodus of customers from FCP-X to Premiere Pro not very long ago. The same thing can happen in reverse at the drop of the hat. I'm sure that will keep them on their toes.

I might be missing something in all this analysis, but I'm not yet in crisis mode over the Creative Cloud move (though I reserve the right to be in the future!).

I've read the Adobe FAQ on the move, and it seems not a huge difference than now. Maybe in some future version they'll cross a line for me personally. But this is not the FCP fiasco that Apple pulled. (despite it's current sales on the Apple Store, which is to be expected given everyone using video these days for consumer level work, which FCPX seems to be targeted at).

Would I personally prefer not to have the Cloud forced on me? Yes. Do I think that Adobe is moving their incredibly feature rich product suite forward for us pros, both in the indepedent and major studio world? Yes. How many of us are not connected to the Internet for at least some part of 90 days? Almost zero.

An untold story here, I believe, is the issue of piracy. I know that MSFT is experiencing huge privacy in Asia, and this might be an issue for Adobe, though I'm not sure how it could, given that you need a registered serial number. By forcing people online for subscriptions, they are making it almost impossible to hide production by being offline.

Ultimately, as opposed to my immediate jumping ship from Apple over their amateur job of abandoning their client base, I am content to wait and see how this all plays out. I've not seen anything in the FAQ from Adobe, nor these great indepth discussions, to make me worried. But then, my name is Alfred (G). Now where do I pay MAD for referencial use of their trademark symbol?

The CC version will sill suffer piracy as much as any other version will. Protection mechanisms can always be defeated.

Andrew

Andrew I don't think piracy has as much to do with this as we might think. As a matter of fact most people that pirate software don't actually use it anyway. So you're not going to turn someone who hardly uses the product into a subscriber anyway.

I think this is a carefully executed plan to get ahead of Apple for once. Apple burned Adobe with the push for HTML5 and Adobe is making a offensive move rather then a defensive one this time. I suspect if Adobe can be first to market with a subscription service they stand a good chance to bring Final cut users back into the fold where Adobe thinks they belong. If I get sucked into paying $50 bucks a month for Adobe, it's pretty likely that's where I'm hanging my hat. it's highly unlikely I'm going to turn around and pay Apple another $50 a month. Make no mistake this is the beginning and not the end of this model.

It's a shame but they are using a cell phone and cable company model on us. And if we don't reject it strongly right now, there will be no stopping it.

It can be done. Netflix got the message. And so did Makers Mark. You have to vote with your wallet.

I don't think for a moment that it's being done to solve a piracy issue - it's all about a consistent cash flow from the subscriptions.

What I am saying is that it won't at all affect the chances of the software being pirated. Again, "protection mechanisms can always be defeated."

Andrew

As someone who was pirating the software because I couldnt afford to drop $2k on the suite and then when CC was announced IMMEDIATELY became a subscriber I think it's a big deal for them. The current setup that they have is CAKE to crack. The subscription is a much harder model. Every college kid I know has a pirated copy of cs6. If it becomes a giant pain to crack the subscription they'll pay the money.


my $0.02.

Also: Been using CC for something like a year with zero issues.

I first thought their new model would be impossible to crack as you needed to be online to use it but what I understand now you just physically install it on your harddrive anyway and you only need to connect to the internet on regular intervals to keep it working? If that's the case you can be sure it will be pirated anyway, I"m sure this is not to adobe's concern because whoever is using pirated copies would never get into a subscription model anyway so there is nothing to gain or lose. Their subscription model is just to get a constant monthly cash flow instead of getting peaks whenever a new version is released. I don't necessarily dislike this model but I don't like the fact that you never own the software, when you stop paying you can't use it anymore. For virusscans you also have a yearly subscription model to be updated but if you stop paying you can still use the software, you only won't get any updated virusdefinitions, this I think is a much more fair solution, you at least can continue using it but you know you will be less protected but that'"s a choice you can make, adobe doesn't give you a choice.

The software lives on your computer but still has to ping the server with a valid account in order to open. How do you see that as easy to crack Noa?

That should not be any problem for a hacker. The ping gives a response, all you need to do is intercept it and modify it to your liking, or Adobe's liking, and send back a valid response. Done.

Well there you go :)

I don't want to turn this thread into a how to crack adobe's software, I just think Adobe is not that concerned about that too much, like I said, people that always have used a pirated copy will never buy a subscription, they"ll just look until they get a cracked copy or just get a cracked copy from another NLE. This is not Adobe's target audience, to them they are just parasites that will always be there and they have been used to live with them. Adobe has worked really hard to make excellent applications that a lot of professional people can't live without anymore, the subscription is just another way to tie these people to them permanently. It's just a business decision, partially to make everyone's lives easier but mainly to generate income, just like apple did when they killed fcp and gave fcpx to the community instead, only Apple is not aiming at the pro user, they know better where the money is at. :)

Ultimately, as opposed to my immediate jumping ship from Apple over their amateur job of abandoning their client base, I am content to wait and see how this all plays out. I've not seen anything in the FAQ from Adobe, nor these great indepth discussions, to make me worried. But then, my name is Alfred (G). Now where do I pay MAD for referencial use of their trademark symbol?

I on the other hand am immediately jumping from Adobe as I see
this as a huge deal and am jumping back to Apple whom I left when
they made an entirely new kind of NLE. But I'd rather learn
a whole new NLE than pay monthly. And quite frankly, Apple
has released a ton of updates and made FCP X quite a bit better.

I used Youtube for the first time in a long time to upload for a client. (More of a Vimeo fan myself). I noticed all the offerings & enhancements they have now, color correction, shakiness stabilizer, video editor etc... Although I didn't really check them out, tho I peaked at the color corrector, pretty cool, kinda does Instagram/Magic Bullet preset type stuff, anyway it's becoming almost Premiere/FCP Light. I wonder if the talk from Google is to eventually grow Youtube into an online video editing source, and maybe Adobe has the forsight to battle it.

Amidst other things, piracy, profit etc...

Piracy affects cash flow. It goes into Adobe's and for that matter, every SW developer's decision making.

I signed the change.org petition.

I think Adobe is now by far the most expensive editing suite, and with Avid's price going down and all the new features in their last update, it's the first time I ever thought learning Avid might be a good thing to do...

I mean I am not a professional editor, but I still want an NLE at home to edit my private stuff - and with the monthly paiment Adobe has just become too expensive for me as a private user. I mean before I could buy a package and use it indefinitely until I really needed an upgrade - this is now over.

Final Cut Pro X would be a good choice because of the low price, but I don't want to buy a Mac. I use them at work, but I don't really like their hardware choices.

An interesting article has popped up regarding the Terms of Service that comes with CC. It's all 'Adobe' and no 'you'.

MPG blog - Adobe Creative Cloud: Lopsided Legal Agreement (http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html)

Andrew

The software lives on your computer but still has to ping the server with a valid account in order to open. How do you see that as easy to crack Noa?
No offense but if you believe that you're a dreamer. Obviously, as you mentioned, you've been stealing the software,so you know the reason people pirate software is pricing. There will be more people spending more time to crack this fiasco. You really have to look at the potential problem and risk. If people don't stand up to this now though, Adobe will have you by the short hairs. The people making all the plug-ins are going to start feeling the pain as well. People will stay away from the them until all this is sorted out.

Surely the plugin vendors are going to make use of the situation by trying to replicate some of the new features from CC with plugins for CS6?

The assumptions regarding hacking their pay to play system are probably a bit on the naive side. It is unlikely the folks implementing the system are bumpkins just out of software engineering school. You are not dealing with a static system, but one that can require constant updates or updates at some periodicity, e.g. under the guise of "security". Some or all communications can be encrypted, so you wouldn't know the correct response to send unless you hacked the machine code or watched the registers and code execution to see how the decryption works. Much effort could be put into hacking something only to have the methodology change on a forced update, e.g. the application knows that it has to retrieve a specific package. There is also the possibility that deceptive code can be placed in the verification engine to look for behavior that is unexpected and shut things down permanently. Bruce Schneier says that ultimately there is no security and any system can be compromised. However, at what cost? Additionally, risk mitigation has its cost as well, and that cost can be reflected in system stability, software cost, etc.

Not necessary to crack the cloud, just pickup a pirated copy of CS6, which I've seen going for $4.00.

Not necessary to crack the cloud, just pickup a pirated copy of CS6, which I've seen going for $4.00.

Or you could, you know, do the right thing and get a legitimate copy of CS6 and just stay put until Creative Cloud seems worthwhile to you.

Not necessary to crack the cloud, just pickup a pirated copy of CS6, which I've seen going for $4.00.

A quick count showed 38 titles included in the Creative Cloud package . It would be cheaper to pay Adobe.

Or you could, you know, do the right thing and get a legitimate copy of CS6 and just stay put until Creative Cloud seems worthwhile to you.

Gary,

I think you're taking that out of context. The discussion was about how effective the cloud version will be at preventing piracy. Some seem to think it will help control it and others are sure (as I am) that it's just a matter of time before someone cracks the cloud. So, my comment was in regard to those individuals who would get a cracked copy of the cloud if/when it comes out. They will not be thwarted as long as they can get a pirated DVD copy of CS 6 (or 2, 3,4,5, 5.5 for that matter).

I purchased a copy of CS 5.5 Production Premium and Lightroom (and then received a free upgrade to 6) about a year ago. Where exactly one would purchase a stand-alone version of CS6 now, I don't know, Adobe ain't selling it; hence all the ruckus here about it. No longer have a choice.

Does anyone really believe that all the illegal users will now sign up for the cloud, because that's what they all wanted all along, to rent the software at $600/year? I only use about 4 of the programs in the suite. Getting a bunch more stuff I will never use, like web-site development tools, doesn't sweeten the deal. If my CS6 stops working, I'll expect a refund from Adobe and then go back to something like GIMP for photo editing and keep using Sony Vegas Pro for video.

Mark

Everyone who uses "warez" or downloads software intended to defeat protection schemes is at very high risk of being "0wned" by agents responsible for distributing spam, child pornography, and other criminal activities. Those interested in performing corporate espionage on the behalf of foreign businesses and governments don't need to crack the network, they only need to find a manager trying to save the company a couple of bucks on their software.

Exactly. Someone who is smart enough to defeat the protection mechanisms on Adobe software is also smart enough to insert their own money making / spyware code in to the software.

So I'm sticking with my legit non-cloud CS6 until someone at Adobe sees the light.

Andrew

Gary,

I think you're taking that out of context. The discussion was about how effective the cloud version will be at preventing piracy. Some seem to think it will help control it and others are sure (as I am) that it's just a matter of time before someone cracks the cloud. So, my comment was in regard to those individuals who would get a cracked copy of the cloud if/when it comes out. They will not be thwarted as long as they can get a pirated DVD copy of CS 6 (or 2, 3,4,5, 5.5 for that matter).

I purchased a copy of CS 5.5 Production Premium and Lightroom (and then received a free upgrade to 6) about a year ago. Where exactly one would purchase a stand-alone version of CS6 now, I don't know, Adobe ain't selling it; hence all the ruckus here about it. No longer have a choice.

Does anyone really believe that all the illegal users will now sign up for the cloud, because that's what they all wanted all along, to rent the software at $600/year? I only use about 4 of the programs in the suite. Getting a bunch more stuff I will never use, like web-site development tools, doesn't sweeten the deal. If my CS6 stops working, I'll expect a refund from Adobe and then go back to something like GIMP for photo editing and keep using Sony Vegas Pro for video.

Mark

I think it will curb casual piracy of the "Hey, can I borrow your copy of Photoshop?" variety but there's already a workaround for the fully function demos and it's been around for years. Basically you replace a small file (can't remember which one) with a modified version you download and it tricks the countdown/date portion of the software into never hitting the 30 day limit.

So I'm sticking with my legit non-cloud CS6 until someone at Adobe sees the light.

I think it will be dark years ahead for you :) As long as cs6 does the job it will serve you for a longer time unless Adobe comes out with new features that would make your life a lot easier and then you can either join or leave them. Who know's by then many others will have followed their cloud approach.

Given the lifespan of Windows XP, I think Win 7 will be good for another ten years.

I don't feel the need to go to 4k or anything else beyond HD. CS6 really is a very mature sweet spot for me. I can live without the coolness of the Lumetri colour engine, and I've already got SpeedGrade if I really want to use it.

If I was forgoing the upgrade from CS5 to CS6 I might not be as content. :-)

Andrew

I think it will be dark years ahead for you :) As long as cs6 does the job it will serve you for a longer time unless Adobe comes out with new features that would make your life a lot easier and then you can either join or leave them. Who know's by then many others will have followed their cloud approach.

There are no features and no amount of programs that will ever get me to subscribe to software or to Adobe's Cash Cow at any price.

Adobe has lost this life long customer among many others. They are hoping people will cave in over time and return - It's not going to happen.

I'm simply going to their competitor's software where there are upgrades and no subscription service.

Yeah, I switched to CS 6 from FCP 7. I'm going to
FCP X or Media composer. Adobe could come out
with a NLE that sliced bread and made chocolate chip
cookies and I wouldn't subscribe. They had a chance
to make me a lifetime customer. This subscription
idiocy lost me. I will never, ever, ever subscribe.
I'd use iMovie before I subscribe to creative cloud.

We are very happy with Creative Cloud & have been using it for the last 12 months. We had a cheap deal as we already had CS5.5 so it's been about £37/month for the last year. I was not looking forward paying full price this coming year but have had a nice present from Adobe. They are offering CC to CS6 users for a bit over £17/month & as I got a free upgrade from CS5.5 to CS6 I am now in the happy position of paying less than half what we did last year. Of course the crunch will come in another 12 months but TBH for a professional if you can't afford £50/month for what Creative Cloud gives you then you really need to take a look at how your business is doing.

We are refugees from FCP7 (Premiere Pro, After Effects, Encore & Audition) & aside from video we also do photography (Photoshop & Lightroom) plus web development (Muse, Fireworks, Dreamweaver) & DTP (In Design & Illustrator) plus there are all those other bits & pieces that look interesting & useful (Acrobat Pro, Edge Animate, Prelude etc). We are really looking forward to all the new features in the new versions that are released on June 17th.

As regard plug-ins, people are not going to be happy if they buy into CC and their expensive Topaz, Perfect Suite, Nik etc. plugins no longer work. My goodness. Just think how that would go down after the already negative reaction to CC.

Regards to the better reaction on this forum, I guess most videographers would be using Premiere Pro, Photoshop, After Effects, Audition and probably more apps, so a CC subscription is going to work out well for them.

In New Zealand and Australia, we are going to be saving a bunch of dollars with CC because we are finally rid of Adobe's price gouging, and will be paying a near identical price to American subscribers. I am going to save hundreds of dollars a year at the same time as having access to a lot more applications.

I think I'm with a few other members on this site. If it were not for Premiere, AE and PhotoShop, I wouldn't use Adobe at all. I have been using Premiere since the horses were runing across the the box it came in. I have never used anything other than Adobe, regardless if it crashed my system continuously or changed the suite moments after I finually learned it. I'll probably be one of those who taps out, gives up and just pays the money, but dang it! If I do change it's going to be a long time this time. Look me up in 5 years. Until then, I'll be pushing CS5 down the road in a hand cart.

Oh yeah. My Perfect Suite 7.1 isn't going to work. What about my Portrait Professional? Darn it!

Trevor. I would not be too sure. With the AU$ heading down the tank, about 10% already, give or take, the same penalty will return soon enough. I doubt Adobe or Apple are going to reverse the previous policy of marking AU prices up when our dollar was high, into a compensatory markdown once the AU$ settles back to about US$0.65..

I am looking forward to a time when or if Blackmagic attach a complementing serious editor to Resolve.

However, a competitor with deep pockets, a takeover and shutdown of Blackmagic will soon take care of that. There's really no such thing as a free lunch and BM has outlived my expectations already. I hope they endure, achieve a dominant position and thus survive.

Wondering how the Adobe servers are going to handle today's rollout of the new CC ...
Would seem a massive flow of 0's an 1's to accomplish thru the pipe.
Fingers crossed for them.

Indeed, we shall see how well they handle what is sure to be a crush of downloads. According to info on the Adobe web site, it goes live at 8pm PDT (03:00 UTC on 18 June)...so no point in even trying until then.