Is there a good resource for general audio tweaking tips? Audition and Audacity have bijillions of options and filters, and I'm sure I could make good use of them if I knew what they did. Sure, you can play around - but what's it really doing behind the scenes? What is a particular filter good for?

It's things like this that I'd like to learn. Are there any online resoucres or "manuals" that talk about pratical problems like this?

For example - my voice on my microphone sounds like I'm talking through a wood wall. What's my first step to improving this? What filters should I start out using?

Thanks.

Is there a good resource for general audio tweaking tips? Audition and Audacity have bijillions of options and filters, and I'm sure I could make good use of them if I knew what they did. Sure, you can play around - but what's it really doing behind the scenes? What is a particular filter good for?

It's things like this that I'd like to learn. Are there any online resoucres or "manuals" that talk about pratical problems like this?

For example - my voice on my microphone sounds like I'm talking through a wood wall. What's my first step to improving this? What filters should I start out using?

Thanks.

Allen,

In the old days we used to say it sounds like they're "talking into a toilet." No?

As I have been more than happy to do several times this evening, I would suggest doing a search on this site regarding your particular audio issue.

No doubt that you will find much helpful information.

Best,

Stephanie

Is there a good resource for general audio tweaking tips? Audition and Audacity have bijillions of options and filters, and I'm sure I could make good use of them if I knew what they did. Sure, you can play around - but what's it really doing behind the scenes? What is a particular filter good for?

It's things like this that I'd like to learn. Are there any online resoucres or "manuals" that talk about pratical problems like this?

For example - my voice on my microphone sounds like I'm talking through a wood wall. What's my first step to improving this? What filters should I start out using?

Thanks.

I've never heard that.Can you point us to a clip?

Ty Ford

Allen, for that wooden-sounding recording it would be helpful to know how it was produced; specific equiipment, distance, etc.

As far as books, there are lots of them; Jay Rose' book on Audio Post is very good, and my Instant Audio book should help as well. However, it sounds as though you're not recording correctly in the first place. Can you provide us some information as to what mic you have, distance you record, room type/materials, and recording hardware?

Bookmark this:
http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

Thanks for the replies,

I'm using an Azden SGM-X (~$100), pluged into the mic input on my laptop. Right now it's resting on two speaker cables wedged between an LCD monitor, so there may some interference there.

I'm talking sometimes about 16 inches away, and other times 3-4 inches away from it, through it's windscreen. It sounds better when I get closer, but I don't know how close I'm supposed to get. This room also has several desks and a carpet in it.

If you're interested I can post a clip in a few minutes. Maybe it's just my preception of it, but it doesn't sound like I'm right in the room when I play it back.

Justin - thanks for the link. I'll read those articles.

Here's where I have the microphone mounted:

http://allenellis.com/temp/audio/microphone.jpg

Here's the "wood wall" problem:

http://allenellis.com/temp/audio/wood%20wall.wav

Now that I listen, the 4 inches "more closer" bit isn't too bad - the really bad sound is when I'm 16 inches away.

The only processing I did with that was some basic noise removal. Is there anything else you would do to the clip?

I'm going to be narrarting a 15-minute documentary, so I'd like to learn as much as I can about optimal sound quality. :)

Thanks. :)

I agree that the audio at 4 inches isn't bad at all for a $100 mic. You have to pay more to get better sound. And the drop off at 16 inches is no more than I'd expect. That's the nature of the beast.

Dear Allen,

Thanks for the photo and other specifics.

My suggestion would be to buy some foam, preferably 2" or more in thickness and with dips and peaks. Then build yourself a little voice over station away from your desk and place the foam "walls" at non-perpendicular angles. Also place a piece of foam on the horizontal surface of your "booth" beneath the mic. You may want to use spray adhesive to mount the foam on 3 pieces of plywood, (maybe 2 1/4' x 2 1/4') and connect them using hinges, so you can adjust the degree of angle.

When I ran a 32 track board for a PBS station our audio booth had foam on all the walls and none of the walls were at right angles. Don't know the exact physics of the wall placement but would assume that sound waves are more easily displaced when bouncing around a non-square room. Sure someone here will know.

Hope this helps.

Steph

I've heard people talk about making sure to have a foam room and all of that... does it really make a difference? My voice from 16 inches away is probably half the volume of when I'm 4 inches away. Would a potential echo up to 30 inches away really make any difference at all?

I'm not questioning your suggestions, of course, but I can't really imagine it'd make any difference.

And to my other question, would you personally apply any effects to this clip? I guess I'll do my talking about 3-4 inches away, and I'll throw in the noise removal that I did - it really helped. Anything else a "professional" would do to the clip?

Thanks. :)

Allen,
Obviously you found that working the mic closer yeilds better results. Something called "proximity effect" roughly states that closer is better and will produce more low end. Feel free to work close to your v/o mic, to the point that you start hearing objectionable things like popping and plosives. More voice equals less room/noise/etc. I like a shotgun for v/o, they can have a lot of punch when worked correctly (my personal fav the Sennheiser MKH-416p, no windscreen). Talking about 30 degrees off the front can help with the plosives as you won't be firing straight down the barrel. The barrel must point towards your mouth however, or you'll get that bad "off-axis" sound. I usually tell people to imagine a tennis ball glued to their lips, and that this is the "pop zone" for microphones. Keep the mic out of it and you'll be fine. After you work all of that out, do you have a stand alone compressor or a compressor plug-in? If so, set the compression ratio to about 2:1 or 3:1, and set the threshold so that you get about 6db of gain reduction as you are speaking. This will fatten up the sound and let it punch through the rest of your mix, as well as keeping your v/o level more consistant.

The padded booth mentioned is a good idea, esp if you don't have a quiet area to v/o in. Not a lot of $$. If you are recording directly into your computer, place the thing around the corner or in the next room away from the noisy fans and drives. You'll walk back and forth a few times to get the level right, but the lack of fan noise will save you noise reduction work.

I've heard people talk about making sure to have a foam room and all of that... does it really make a difference? My voice from 16 inches away is probably half the volume of when I'm 4 inches away. Would a potential echo up to 30 inches away really make any difference at all?

I'm not questioning your suggestions, of course, but I can't really imagine it'd make any difference.

And to my other question, would you personally apply any effects to this clip? I guess I'll do my talking about 3-4 inches away, and I'll throw in the noise removal that I did - it really helped. Anything else a "professional" would do to the clip?

Thanks. :)


Too much foam makes a room sound like foam. The best studios are a combination of diffusive and absorptive surfaces with non-parallel walls to reduce standing waves (sound bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball.)

Narrations are done with the mic 4-6 inches away, closer sometimes.

for samples, drop on over to my site.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Too much foam makes a room sound like foam. The best studios are a combination of diffusive and absorptive surfaces with non-parallel walls to reduce standing waves (sound bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball.)



Like Ty says, nothing beats a good room. In the absence of such, like in a noisy office or converted bedroom...
Watch the Preview 3
http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id=fa96cfc7-7a95-44cc-a143-5b7da6de3482

It's a spin on Stephanie's post, but it works very, very well.

Thanks for the replies.

It's sounding a lot better, now. I ran a normalize on it, and amplified it as much as possible. Then I did a 3:1 compressor and it and I'm liking it a lot more. :)

http://www.allenellis.com/temp/audio/wood%20wall2.wav

It still doesn't sound like this guy: http://home.comcast.net/%7Etyreeford/narration.mp3. Why not? I think fairly soon the lowest common denominator will be my voice (which I need to get lessons in at some point), and the quality of the microphone. Do you think the microphone is a limiting factor at this point?

I think I also hear a little bit of an echo, and it was more apparent when I was trying to do an equalize on it. Do you think that's because of the wood desk it's near? Would that really cause an echo?

Finally - if you were an audio editor and were stuck with this clip, would you do anything else to it? It sounds like it's about 85% better than my first clip, but there's still a little bit of a wooden feeling to it. Is there any way to fix that digitally or is the answer a better recording booth/microphone/voice?

Thanks. :)

LOL...wanting to sound like Ty's stuff sounds requires a few things.
-Years of experience
-Great gear
-Practice, practice, practice
-Voice coaching can't hurt. Harlan Hogan has a GREAT DVD out on doing great V/O work, as one resource.

Next to the voice, mic is critically important, and the room only slightly less so. Knowing EQ, compression in post are equally important. There are scads of resources out there, both paid for and free. Jeffrey Fisher has an awesome book out on audio post for V/O work, and there are others as well.
3:1 is a good point for much vocal work, depending on the mic, preamp setup, and talent.

Glenn,

Sorry, but you seem to be more concerned with fixing the audio in post rather than actually recording excellent audio in the first place.

Yes, your desk is giving you the echo. Sorry if I didn't made it clear during my previous post, but the foam is suggested to absorb the reverberation/echo you are getting off your desk.

Your "closer" recordings sound fine on my computer but you may want to get the highest quality sound you can for any and all venues you planning for your video.

Regarding your previous question regarding whether the non-parallel walls and the foam make "that much difference"?, the answer is yes since professional recording studios pay thousands of dollars to build their booths this way.

Steph

Thanks and a hat tip to Doug.

I record voice and music in my space, so the acoustic treatment is very important. I do V/O and teach both union and non-union talent how to become narrators. My most recent student is Molly Moores. www.mollymoores.com.

I use really good mics, preamps and A/D converters in a 25' x 35' room that's extremely quiet. I bought the house because of the space. it's so quiet your ear drums do funny things. That's not because of the sound treatment. Acoustic panels have very little to do with how quiet a room is. They do, however, have everything to do with what happens to the sound originated inside the room.

I have recorded in big rooms with little more than some fabric covered panels of Corning 703 on the walls and the sound was excellent. I use a combination of foam, and diffusion to create a controlled environment.
I have desks and other hard surfaces, but use them to breakup the sound.

I have a wall unit filled (40 feet) of albums across one end wall. It makes an exccellent diffuser. The result is that the recordings (people say) sound "right there." Not a lot of room sound.

I also tune or design spaces for other people. I can pretty much hear what the problems are in a room by being in it, talking and making a few impulse noises.

Because voiceover work is normally close miced, acoustic problems are mimimized. You can do a lot of good work with an RE20 or SM7. Condenser mics with cardioid patterns require more attention because they hear the acoustic anomalies of the room much more; partly because their HF response is higher than that of dynamic mics.

I wrote a book called "Advanced Audio Production Techniques" about how to put a studio together back in 1991. Fortunately, it was very well received (spent the first year on MIX magazines best seller's list) and made a lot of money for Focal Press. I got small yearly commissions. Last year I got the rights back and (in my spare time) have started to rewrite it. There are still some copies of it flotating around. I didn't cover acoustics in the book, but plan to in the rewrite.

Good voiceovers are the result of attention to the art and craft of preformance, acoustical environment and equipment (and knowing how to get the most from it) and a good script. You can't just run out and buy some stuff and get the sound. That you are able to hear the difference is very good. The many who can't, make some pretty nasty recordings.

Hope this helps.

Ty Ford

...That you are able to hear the difference is very good. The many who can't, make some pretty nasty recordings.

HEAR HEAR!! Thats the *best* thing I've heard in a while...

You guys have been really helpful - thanks a lot :).

As far as getting a better place for the microphone,

I'm not sure how feasable it would be to build a giant space for the microphone - my desk and the area around it is very limited at the moment. I'm going to be building a giant new desk for the entire room, but I'll be sharing it with a coworker (so I only get half the room), and there is going to be a lot of equipment in this room.

Do you think it'd be possible to build a little 8 inch box for the microphone to sit in? I would be out in the open, of course, but the microphone would be insulated on all sides except for the front. I'm happy with Audacity's noise removal tool, so I don't think a faint background fan or two will really interefere with it, since it seems they can be taken out very easily.

If that won't work, downstairs I have a walk-in closet. It's probably 10 feet by 14 feet, carpeted, drywall ceiling, and hanging clothes covering one entire side. I'm recording onto a laptop, which is great because it's portable. Do you think I could take it down into my closet and get a better result? Trying it is probably the only way to really know, I suppose.

8 inch? Not a prayer of being valid. Might as well put the mic in a Tupperware bowl.
Watch the vid I linked to above, you'll see the smallest size you can get away with.

If computer noise is the issue, figure out what space you can put the CPU in (like in another room or closet) and cable to your keyboard and monitor/mouse.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Douglas,

The link you sent me to (Preview 3) (http://www.vasst.com/content/product/files/product/keystonecops-voicebox.wmv) returns a 404 not found. :(

Douglas,

The link you sent me to (Preview 3) (http://www.vasst.com/content/product/files/product/keystonecops-voicebox.wmv) returns a 404 not found. :(


Hmm....link on page working from here.
Direct link:
http://www.vasst.com/files/product/keystonecops-voicebox.wmv

Thanks, that one worked. :)

It's a shame that the audio is so compressed - it's a lot harder to hear the difference.

So what size were those panels? 18 inches?

Thanks. :)

20 x 20.
You can hear a difference clearly (or at least I can) but you're right, the quality of the difference is compromised greatly in the compression of the file.

Alright, here's what I did.

I suddenly realized I have a lot of boxes. And a lot of sweaters. So I decided to get resourceful and build myself a soft box for $0. I found a 17" box, folded and laid a blanket across the bottom, placed a couple of sweaters on each side, and had another light sweater to pull over my head when I talk into it.

Picture: http://allenellis.com/temp/audio/soft%20box.jpg

Sound clip: http://www.allenellis.com/temp/audio/soft%20box.wav

I feel like there's still something lacking, or like there's too much bass somehow. Am I just being over critical of it? Anything else I could do to improve it?

Thanks. :)

Alright, here's what I did.

I suddenly realized I have a lot of boxes. And a lot of sweaters. So I decided to get resourceful and build myself a soft box for $0. I found a 17" box, folded and laid a blanket across the bottom, placed a couple of sweaters on each side, and had another light sweater to pull over my head when I talk into it.

Picture: http://allenellis.com/temp/audio/soft%20box.jpg

Sound clip: http://www.allenellis.com/temp/audio/soft%20box.wav

I feel like there's still something lacking, or like there's too much bass somehow. Am I just being over critical of it? Anything else I could do to improve it?

Thanks. :)

Allen,

Are those pure cotton or polyester sweaters? Might make a difference as different fibers have different audio qualities. Just kidding dude.....

Very resourceful man! It does sound better than your original post. I think you're right about the bassy sound. I hesitate to suggest that you may now be too close to the mic given the absorption qualities of your makeshift sound booth. The audio geniuses here will help, I have no doubt.

If you decide to move beyond the sweater-box, DSE has some instructions in an article titled "Voice Over Box" found below:

http://www.vasst.com/article.aspx?id=7ea74e33-a787-4810-bf61-07666d5a8cb2&type=1
also found here http://www.indigipix.com/voicebox.htm

And this online book is a great resource for showing the merits of Owens Corning 703 or 705 which Jay Rose also recommends in his book titled Audio Postproduction for Digital Video:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Allen,

If you were making a jab with your photo of an over-stuffed sweater box and a "game show" voice-over you obviously GOT ME. I woke up early yesterday with a acuity which is exceptionally unusual for me at that hour, that perhaps your last post was a JOKE. If it was, I commend your creativity. A little bit evil perhaps, but very clever none the less.

If not, you've got way too many sweaters in there which will absorb all the "sweetness"; i.e. the highs and lows that make a voice seem rich and full. It's a matter of balance as some more informed folks have already posted.

Much good luck with your project and a friendly kick in the ass if appropriate.

Steph

"a friendly kick in the ass if appropriate."

Hmm, can I order one of those?

Ty

"a friendly kick in the ass if appropriate."

Hmm, can I order one of those?

Ty
Yeah, but shipping will kill you.

If not, you've got way too many sweaters in there which will absorb all the "sweetness"; i.e. the highs and lows that make a voice seem rich and full. It's a matter of balance as some more informed folks have already posted.

Oh, wow. I would have assumed you can't have too much padding, since more would cut down on your echo and background noise more and more.

Ok, maybe I'll try taking a few of them out. My problem was that when I had less padding, I got a bit of an echo when I talked into it.

This may sound crazy, but here's what I've been considering for a more long-term solution: a shower is really a wonderful size for a recording booth. My idea was to buy some foamcore (four pieces) about 4 feet tall, by about 2 feet wide or so. Maybe another smaller one one as a lid, too. Glue some foam to them (just like in the video that was posted earlier). Then you could lean each one against the walls in a shower with the foam facing in, and just sit in the center. It's portable - I can store it when I'm not using it.

Am I stepping into the bounds of crazyness? In theory it could work - I can move my laptop down there when I record, and it's a nice solid space to work in.

Thoughts?

Am I stepping into the bounds of crazyness? In theory it could work - I can move my laptop down there when I record, and it's a nice solid space to work in.

Thoughts?

Not crazy at all. In fact, I've seen this done before...a shower turned into a vocal booth.