Canon USA Introduces XA25 and XA20 Professional HD Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xa25-and-xa20-professional-hd-camcorders.html)

Canon USA Announces New VIXIA HF G30 Camcorder at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-announces-new-vixia-hf-g30-camcorder.html)

20X zoom, 1080/60p (finally!) and a new chip.

Basic specs on all models

Newly-designed Genuine Canon 20x HD Video Lens
1080/60p recording in MP4 (35 Mbps) and AVCHD Progressive (28 Mbps)
Built-in Wi-Fi® technology Dual Band 5 GHz/2.4 GHz) allows wireless transfer of video
New Canon 2.91 Megapixel HD CMOS Pro Image Sensor and new DIGIC DV 4 Image Processor

The XA20 adds XLR and the XA25 has XLR and HD-SDI. Both XA models feature the same handle that's on the XA10.

looks interesting. any idea when they'll be available?
any news on a xf100 replacement?

Is the XA25 the smallest camera in the world with HD-SDI? That alone could make it a really nice POV camera for certain applications.

GoPros are nice, but you'll need a HD-SDI converter, increasing the footprint. If you don't need something that wide of FOV, the XA25 could be it.

Plus I'm guessing you could get a "large" battery & have the thing run for 4hr.

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Edit: Another link with more photos:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/pro_spec_xa25_camera_boasts_new_hd_video_system.do

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Edit #2, just saw a banner ad for the XA25 here on DVInfo. They didn't waste any time, did they.

Not a lot of info yet, but....1080/60p (finally!)

Phew, at last!!! Welcome to the party Canon!

Looks like a BP-820 battery. Does anyone know if those are the same as the XA10 / HFM40 style batteries? 20X lens should be awesome.

Can the XF replacements be far behind?

I knew I kept tabs on this site for a good reason….. great post! Glad to see that new prosumer Canon HF G30. Not that I can afford one. Ha!

Can the XF replacements be far behind?

The XL-H1 was released in '05, but not updated until '08 when the '06 XH-A1 / G1 were updated too.

The XF300 was '10, but nothing new in '12. XF100 was '11, so there is a good chance that we'll see something new for XF100 / XF300 series cameras.

Although Canon has been doing a lot with the C300 / 500 / 100 cameras, so that might be a reason why the XF line won't see anything new.

Canon USA Introduces XA25 and XA20 Professional HD Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xa25-and-xa20-professional-hd-camcorders.html)

Looks interesting.

I want!

Although the move to touch screens is depressing. I really don't like getting skin oil on the viewfinder..

That might be a reason why the XF line won't see anything new.

Not at NAB at least. This morning Canon released all of their NAB press announcements:

Canon USA Introduces XA25 and XA20 Professional HD Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xa25-and-xa20-professional-hd-camcorders.html)

Canon Inc. Announces Development of 35mm Cinema Prime Lens at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-inc-announces-development-of-35mm-cinema-prime-lens.html)

Canon USA Announces Free Firmware Upgrade for Cinema EOS Cameras at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-announces-free-firmware-upgrade-for-cinema-eos-cameras.html)

Canon USA Delivers Its Latest Digital Imaging Solutions at NAB2013 at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-delivers-its-latest-digital-imaging-solutions-at-nab2013.html)

A lot of stuff going on but not for the XF line this time.

oh yes, can't wait,
now, if we can also have 50Mbps 1080/60p PMW camera this year,
please?

Wasn't the Canon HF G20 announced at CES? I see B&H is still clearing out HF G10's. And now the HF G30 comes along. That has got to be the shortest model run ever.

Not at NAB at least. This morning Canon released all of their NAB press announcements:

Is this on the record? Do you have solid info?

I honestly believe that we won't see anything new, but also think it is believable that we'd see something big on Saturday or Sunday.

At $2699 there should be a WB switch or some way of moving between WB settings on the fly. The 20X zoom lens is phenomenal, 60p is great, but the lack of a switch for WB is very disappointing at this price point, at least to me.

I think the prices are wrong on the DVInfo
Canon USA Introduces XA25 and XA20 Professional HD Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xa25-and-xa20-professional-hd-camcorders.html)

$3,199 - XA25
$2,699 - XA20

According to these links
Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XA20 (http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorders/xa20)
Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : Professional Camcorders (http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorders/xa25)

It is:
$2,699 - XA25
$2,199 - XA20

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For reference, the XA10 was originally priced at $1,999 when announced & currently sells for $1,699. So I'm guessing we'd see street prices of around $2,399 & $1,899 for the XA25 & XA20 respectively.

Jeff Harper, I totally agree with you about the white balance toggle. The JVC HM150 (which is selling for $1,999 currently) is my personal favorite in UI & layout for a baby camera, wish others would copy it. But then again, the JVC doesn't have a consumer cousin of the HM150 that it has to design for too.

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I do want to take special note that I really like that the lens hood has built in flip down cover. All camera manufactures, please keep doing this for any / all of your cameras.

Thanks Zach. I published the press release the way I received it but I'll make the corrections. Looks like they changed their minds about pricing pretty quickly!

Thanks Zach, great information, glad you shared it with us. Seems obvious the mistakes were typos, no doubt.

Well, let's see, at $2199 the camera is much more appealing. Despite the lack of WB switch or toggle, a 20X zoom at this price is pretty great, and a larger than 1/3" sensor is not too shabby either.

Every component on these cams are an update, from the lens to sensor to Digic DSP to recording formats.

I'm curious to see the overall performance, but they all look to be quite nice. It's too bad the HD-SDI on the XA25 is only 4:2:0 though... seems as Canon's way to protect the XF cams.

With approx $40 billion in global revenue it's about time. Maybe it doesn't need external WB control.

The Tascam DR60 might make a nice addition .. Tascam DR-60D on Vimeo

Looks like they changed their minds about pricing pretty quickly!

Yep signs of late nights and confusion in marketing lol.

Cheers.

Thanks for updating the release Chris. My guess is someone at Canon mistyped a 3 instead of a 2 & then swapped the prices. Because why would the XA20 cost more than the XA25?

Or maybe they already knocked $500 off the price. But while the XA25 looks nice, I don't see it costing more than a XF300, so my guess is an honest mistake.

Jeff, I'd say don't get too attached to a "larger than 1/3" chip." I might be wrong, but the JVC HM70 is advertised with a 1/2.3" chip, but by my math it only uses about the area of a 1/3.2"-ish chip (through a combo of cropping the chip & downsampling the higher res to HD res).

Native 1080 is 2.07megapixels, the XA20 is 2.9megapixels. So is it downsampling the resolution to HD? Or cropping the image to HD?

There is a blip about the FOV being different when IS is on / off. Which might mean when you have IS on, the camera is cropping the chip to 1920x1080 & then moving around the chip to keep the image steady. And then when you turn off IS, the camera uses the entire chip & downsampels to HD.

This is of course just my speculation from the specifications listed so far.

It seems your reasoning Zach is probably correct.

Canon mentions that the new imaging system uses Electronic Stabilization at the sensor level in combination with the Dynamic Optical Image Stabilization on the lens to compensate for movements in a wide range of directions.

Canon Professional Network - HD video camera duo feature all-new imaging system (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/pro_spec_xa25_camera_boasts_new_hd_video_system.do?utm_source=newsalert-april-1-2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter)

What would the reason be to add SDI but yet lack so many other manual switches like WB?
Small studio camera with fixed lighting?

Oh, man. What a game-changer this is. Who would ever have guessed that Canon would have included an HD-SDI output on what looks like a souped-up XA10? At the price the XA25 is going to sell for, this is unprecedented.

I had a Canon XA10 and sold it. I liked the camera overall, but there were some things I wasn't so keen about. I've got small hands, and the way the XA10 body was sculpted, it never fit well - it always felt too thick. I also found it a bit front-heavy due to the XLR attachment, and this, along with the shape of the body, made the camera hard to hold comfortably for any appreciable length of time.

I'm hoping that the XA25 addresses that problem since the body appears to have been resculpted a bit to accommodate a proper zoom rocker (I've never been a fan of the zoom toggle mounted on the top of the XA10).

The touch-screen interface and the UI on the XA10 was also something I didn't like. I found it a bit fiddly, and it seemed oriented towards non-professional (i.e. consumer) users. I hope that Canon have tweaked it so it looks and functions more like the UI found on the XF100.

There are a couple of things that I immediately find a bit disappointing with the design of the XA25. For starters, it would have been nice to see a rotating viewfinder like the ones seen on JVC's HM100/150 series cameras, Panasonic's AG-AC90, and Sony's NX70. It would also have been nice to see at least two manual control buttons - one for iris, gain, and shutter, and the other to toggle focus/zoom.

On the other hand, the 20x zoom is very welcome, and puts the XA25 well ahead of any other camcorder in its size and price class. So is the larger, longer-lasting battery. As for the inclusion of a proper rocker-type zoom control, well, all I can say is, 'it's about time they included one.' I hope that Canon also saw fit to include touch-screen accessible rack focus and focus selection points.

Builti-in Wi-Fi and a bigger image sensor make the package even more compelling. To my eyes, the XA25 has the potential to beat the Panasonic AC90 and JVCs HM150 on image quality alone because it has a bigger sensor, even if it has only one. And the price is right.

Plus I have always liked the colour gamut that Canon cameras have produced - some people say it's a bit orangy-red, but I find it pleasing and very natural-looking - almost exactly like what my eyes see in everyday life.

And hey, if nothing else, the new lens hood looks really cool. I always thought the original lens hood for the XA10 looked sort of fruity anyway.

Canon should do very well with the XA25 and its new siblings.

My guess is someone at Canon mistyped a 3 instead of a 2 & then swapped the prices. Because why would the XA20 cost more than the XA25?

Or maybe they already knocked $500 off the price. But while the XA25 looks nice, I don't see it costing more than a XF300, so my guess is an honest mistake.



Or maybe the guy in marketing who was supposed to check it, went home to pack for NAB :)

Happens all over .. Macy's accidentally sells $1500 necklace for $47 Metro.us (http://www.metro.us/newyork/news/national/2013/04/03/macys-accidentally-sells-1500-necklace-for-47/)

Unfortunately we're not so lucky, imagine if.

Cheers.

If that lens is 20x at a constant f1.8 like the press release says I will wet myself. That is typically a pretty rare thing to have a constant f stop rating on a video camera zoom lens. They typically lose a stop when zoomed in. The 20x is impressive enough but if it really is at f1.8 that is insane.

After shooting with DSLR's for awhile now I can almost say I don't really need SDI or XLR so I may actually prefer the consumer model. Considering getting this camera to stop wasting money trying to find there fact DSLR zoom lens for live shooting.

Every component on these cams are an update, from the lens to sensor to Digic DSP to recording formats.

I'm curious to see the overall performance, but they all look to be quite nice. It's too bad the HD-SDI on the XA25 is only 4:2:0 though... seems as Canon's way to protect the XF cams.

Where the heck did you read this? Companies hardly ever mention what the HDMI or SDI puts out.

Where the heck did you read this? Companies hardly ever mention what the HDMI or SDI puts out.

It's in this description:

Amazon.com: Canon XA25 Professional Camcorder: Camera & Photo



Scroll down to where it talks about the HD/SDI. It is odd, 4:2:0 out of an SDI. An error, maybe?

If that lens is 20x at a constant f1.8 like the press release says I will wet myself. That is typically a pretty rare thing to have a constant f stop rating on a video camera zoom lens. They typically lose a stop when zoomed in. The 20x is impressive enough but if it really is at f1.8 that is insane.

After shooting with DSLR's for awhile now I can almost say I don't really need SDI or XLR so I may actually prefer the consumer model. Considering getting this camera to stop wasting money trying to find there fact DSLR zoom lens for live shooting.


Canon U.S.A. : Professional Imaging Products : XA25 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/hd_video_cameras/xa25#Overview)

Canon site states:
1.8-2.8 for max f/stop so it's probably not that insane.

And on the HD-SDI it says:
HD/SD-SDI output provides an uncompressed signal at 1920x1080 resolution with 4:2:0 color sampling and embedded audio and time code.

HD-SDI
Video Standard: SMPTE 292M (1080i / 720p)
Embedded Audio Standard: SMPTE 299M
Time code Standard: SMPTE 12M

SD-SDI
Video Standard: SMPTE 259M (480i)
Embedded Audio Standard: SMPTE 272M
Time code Standard: SMPTE 12M

That would be something, wouldn't it? A 20x lens with a f1.8 constant aperture? Even with still camera zoom lenses, it's hard to achieve constant apertures of 2.8 or greater and keep the price and size reasonable.
What I find impressive is how wide the lens is: 26.8mm, which is pretty good for a lower-end prosumer/pro camera.

I wonder if the eight-blade iris has anything to do with it?

In any case, I get the impression that with the relatively large sensor, the new DIGIC 4 processing engine and eight-bladed iris, the XA20/25 should produce some pretty good images. I can't wait to see some test footage.

Canon U.S.A. : Professional Imaging Products : XA25 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/hd_video_cameras/xa25#Overview)

Canon site states:
1.8-2.8 for max f/stop so it's probably not that insane.

And on the HD-SDI it says:
HD/SD-SDI output provides an uncompressed signal at 1920x1080 resolution with 4:2:0 color sampling and embedded audio and time code.

HD-SDI
Video Standard: SMPTE 292M (1080i / 720p)
Embedded Audio Standard: SMPTE 299M
Time code Standard: SMPTE 12M

SD-SDI
Video Standard: SMPTE 259M (480i)
Embedded Audio Standard: SMPTE 272M
Time code Standard: SMPTE 12M

Ah ok that makes more sense. Still f2.8 is not bad at all for a 20x zoom. Some other cameras that reach a 20x get a bit darker than that so this is still very impressive. That is a 1 1/3 stop slower when zoomed in which is not all that bad.

That is a bummer about the HD-SDI being crippled to 4:2:0. There was a time when a raw signal from the DSP meant the raw signal. Now that DSP components are getting so sophisticated companies are able to bypass feeding the raw signal. Sad really that pretty much every HDV camera before this with component, HDMI or HD-SDI was 4:2:2. Even Canon's consumer cameras would give 4:2:2 via HDMI. I am going to assume the HDMI is also crippled since it would take too many resources to pass through the DSP in two different ways.

Companies seem hell bent on making sure the mainstream doesn't get 4:2:2. Lets hope this is a mistake or a typo. Still the camera is very impressive even without the 4:2:2 which honestly I doubt I would very much anyway. For compositing work I would prefer my GH2 anyway.

I too was both impressed and some what confused on why they did add a HD-SDI to such a camera when they skipped so many other features and controls. But then if its neutered to 420 its no threat to their higher lines.
Perhaps we will see hacked/patched ones delivering 422 :)

Restricting the HD-SDI output to 4:2:0 looks to me like a pretty clear-cut attempt on Canon's part to protect sales of their XF and C-series cameras. The other sign that this is part of Canon's overall marketing and market segmentation strategy is the fact that the XA25 and XA20 can't do more than 35MB/s in MP4 format, while their XF and higher series of cameras can output 50MB/s.

Can't think of any other reason why Canon would deliberately impose such a limitation on their new XA-series camcorders.

Then again, since most of the stuff I shoot is documentary and event-related and output to the web, I'm not too worried about the lack of 4:2:2 colourspace or the maximum output capability of 28MB/s in AVCHD and 35MB/s in MP4.

Why even put the SDI output on the camera if it is crippled? People in this market segment are most likely not using SDI monitoring and the 4:2:0 makes an external recorder useless as well.

All I can see is timecode use (if it has timecode sync). I have not read the entire spec sheet.

It has gotten to the point that one has a tough time trusting anything from the makers anymore. They twist things that used to be viewed as standardized, like lux ratings or true uncompressed...

Where the heck did you read this? Companies hardly ever mention what the HDMI or SDI puts out.

I remember when the C100 was announced the initial specs said HDMI out was 4:2:0 but then after people screamed it was upgraded to 4:2:2 . either a correction or alteration. Perhaps history will repeat itself,

This AM the Canon Web page shows $2999 and $2499 as the estimated price points. The XA10 sits at $1999.99. Time will tell.

Is 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0 just a matter of the DSP, or is it determined in this case by the actual CMOS sensor configuration?

The XA10 on B&H is listed at $1699. $2999 Msrp is not far away from an XF100 which is listed at $2499.

This AM the Canon Web page shows $2999 and $2499 as the estimated price points. Thanks Don, I've updated the DVi page at Canon USA Introduces XA25 and XA20 Professional HD Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xa25-and-xa20-professional-hd-camcorders.html)

Guess they're still trying to figure out their pricing. Could become a daily routine!

From the specs the XA20/25 appears to be two stops faster than the the XA10/XF100/XF300 sensor, and two stops less sensitive than the C100/300/500 sensor.

If the SDI out is truly only 4:2:0, which I doubt, then is the SDI so these can be linked to form an inexpensive 3D rig? That was a feature of the XF105, although seldom used.

Two stops seems like a lot. How did you come to this conclusion? If the XF300 would be at f5.6 the XA25 would be at f2.8?

Minimum illumination level on the XF100/300 sensor is 4.5 lux, on the C100/300/500 is 0.3 lux and on the XA20/25 sensor is 1.2 lux. Two stops between the XA20/25 and the other two sensors.

Minimum listed lux on the XF100 is 1.6 in manual mode. F/1.2 is undoubtedly obtained on the new XA20 and 25 at manual settings as well.

We must be careful before posting specs and throwing numbers around so as not to confuse people.

From the specs the XA20/25 appears to be two stops faster than the the XA10/XF100/XF300 sensor, and two stops less sensitive than the C100/300/500 sensor.

If the SDI out is truly only 4:2:0, which I doubt, then is the SDI so these can be linked to form an inexpensive 3D rig? That was a feature of the XF105, although seldom used.

It's mentioned clearly on the HD-SDI sublink in the product page itself:

Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XA25 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorders/xa25#Features)

This is the first time I've ever seen Canon deliberately mention HD-SDI output as specifically 4:2:0. Seems to me that they want to be clear on what this is.

This cam seems to be targeted at ENG use for one, so the purpose of this HD-SDI may not be so much for external recording, but rather the ability to feed live to a truck or deck.

But yes, crippling it to 4:2:0 on purpose still is unfortunate, but clearly is a move to protect the XF line.

I just noticed that the HF-G30 drops the LAN-C plug that the HF-G10 sports. For me, this is a deal breaker.

And this morning they're showing $2499 and $2999 for the XA20 and XA25 respectively. Go figure.

Minimum listed lux on the XF100 is 1.6 in manual mode. F/1.2 is undoubtedly obtained on the new XA20 and 25 at manual settings as well.

We must be careful before posting specs and throwing numbers around so as not to confuse people.


You are comparing manual mode to auto mode. Manual mode increases shutter speed beyond 360 degree shutter. So, we need to compare specs with same shutter speeds.

This is the first time I've ever seen Canon deliberately mention HD-SDI output as specifically 4:2:0. Seems to me that they want to be clear on what this is.

This cam seems to be targeted at ENG use for one, so the purpose of this HD-SDI may not be so much for external recording, but rather the ability to feed live to a truck or deck.

But yes, crippling it to 4:2:0 on purpose still is unfortunate, but clearly is a move to protect the XF line.


The initial C100 specs also mentioned 4:2:0 but later were changed to 4:2:2.

And this morning they're showing $2499 and $2999 for the XA20 and XA25 respectively. Go figure.

Wow, I guess they can't make up their minds.

It is going to be fun for the guys on the floor at NAB. I'm guessing they'll have to have a stock market price ticker going at the booth to keep track of what the current advertised price will be.

$3,199, no $2,699, no $2,999, no $4,999, no $1,999 no...

I just noticed that the HF-G30 drops the LAN-C plug that the HF-G10 sports.Nooooo. That can't be right! I gotta confirm this for myself...

And early reports thought the G20 dropped the LANC port, only to be proved false when the G20 was seen hands on. Have to wait and see the beast in more detail.

The XA20/25 is 1.2 lux compared to the XA10 at 1.5 on the spec sheet on the web page, and the FX100 is 4.5 lux. However, the shutter speeds are not the same (1/30 for XA10 vs 1/60 for XF100, not stated for the XA2x) and the gain is not stated for all cases either.

I would expect the end result to be close to the same (within a fraction of a stop for the same end image quality) when all is said and done.

But in the mean time speculation IS fun!