When I’m wrong I’ll admit it (just ask my wife). I’ve stated that it was unsafe to have your tapes in your luggage while they undergo baggage screening. The reason being is that these machines are much more powerful than the ones located at the passenger checkpoints. Additionally, there are signs advising individuals to remove any film products (throw-away cameras, film canisters, etc) from the bag prior to screening.

I’ve been suggesting that these machines could harm tapes as well. I just completed a training class where the students were all baggage screeners. I posed the question of harming tapes to them. All said that there should be no problem or damage to any tape going through our CTX machines. At least two people came up to me afterwards and informed me that professional photographers still do not take a chance with their tapes. They remove them and take them with them as they go through the passenger checkpoint.

What would I do? I know what type of equipment is used at this airport (Chicago Midway). I also put a lot of trust into the people manning this equipment. If they say its safe I’d have to agree with them that it’s safe. Not all airports have the same type of equipment. I have also lived my entire profession life training for the worse case scenario. So the answer to the question of would I tempt fate by putting my tapes through the baggage screening? The answer is no, but that’s me. I suggest that it’s up to the individual as far as what you do. It could be safe.

Don,
I have flown a bunch since 9/11 and even before that I always had the screeners hand check my cam stuff including tapes. I found that if you ask in a decent way they will generally help you out. True at MDW,ORD,DFW,STL and ATL.
Up to now anyway. My next trip isn't until June so things might change then, I hope not.
Don

Don L.,
Thank you so much for posting that follow-up. I know that many folks read the original thread and got sweaty palms.

Good follow-up and good suggestions.

I do not see any major changes in the way we do business anytime soon. We began 100% scgeening of all checked baggage in January (all domestic US airports). That change caught a few people by surprise. We are using bigger and to a degree better equipment to check the large checked luggage. Just go to any airport and see the difference between what is being used at the checkin area vs. the passenger checkpoints.

Same points as before for checked baggage. Do not lock the bag before having ot screened. If TSA needs to open a locked bag and the owner can't be found they will bust it open. You will have the chance to lock the bag after it's been screened.

Reguarding the checkpoint. Same rules apply as before. You can ask for a hand search of items you do not want put in the x-ray. No problems there.

My best suggestion is to allow for extra time to get through all the screening. Especially if you are carrying a lot of electronic gear.

Dispite what you hear - air travel has been and will remain the safest mode of transportation.

During a January trip to Canada, TSA at O'Hare opened my (unlocked) checked suitcase. Nothing appeared disturbed, despite having a full load of winter clothing and some camera gear. They enclosed a notice of the search, re-closed the bag and then locked it with nylon ties placed through the zipper lock holes. They also searched me at the security point (I guess I must look suspicious). Overall I rate these procedures with an 'A'. Much more courteous, professional and, yes, thorough than years past.

I (thankfully) doubt that the airplane ploy will be feasible for terrorists in the U.S. again. Now if only the nuclear power plant people can get with a similar program.

Ken I agree with you. In speaking with flight crew members since 9-11 they all say the same thing sit buckle up and enjoy the ride. Just make sure you stay buckled up! It's been proved that even a 747 can make a barrel roll!.

Glad you had a good experience flying. Most folks going through the screening process at our airports have the same remarks.

Hey guys,
did you notice this whole thread was out of the Chicagoland area?
Don B.

I'm one of those nuclear power plant people and let me tell you we have the same airport search each day i come to work .
I'm control room staff and worked in this industry for 35 years and I'm searched every shift and when I carry anything electronic I am asked to turn it on to verify its use.
So the nuclear power plants are there!

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Bloom : Hey guys, did you notice this whole thread was out of the Chicagoland area? Don B. -->>>

No, I hadn't. That's funny!

Stankern: Actually, I've no doubt that many, if not all, plants have stringent security procedures for their employees these days. I also have little doubt that most plant employees are highly committed to security.

Well my experience is very very bad, going out of Singapore I had my hand bag (read all electronics, cameras and related stuff) and I had to stay more than half an hour while the opeartor of the X-ray machine (?) changed the modes an looked at the screen for five or more minutes each.
then at Heathrow they passed the bag as if nothing but a police officer kindly asked me to open thebag and give him everything one by one! I took me more than an hour just to pack everything in there and thats not the worst of it near the plane a stwardest told me I cant carry that bag into the plane so I explain to her that this is my equipment I work with that its very fragile etc. So she says Its ok Sir" take it put a sticker that says FRAGILE and drop it on a shute.... And I can hear the THUMB when it hit the down floor, Needless to say I promiss her that if anything was brken ill be back to kill her and all her family... then she called the captain....

=(

I have flown numerous times with a hardcase of equipment and I have never had a problem when asking the folks to please hand check the stuff in the case. I explain what everything is, show it to them, open everything up and presto! I'm thru. Now it takes more than a few minutes, I have alot in the case but I allow enough time to get thru. I would rather wait at the airport for an hour than take the chance of not getting thru in time to make my plane. I also made sure this hardcasre I bought would fit the dimensions the airlines have for carryon baggage.
Don

I found this out the hardway, going to Mexico to shot a documentary, I put 10 of my 15 tapes through the scanner, and recked all of them. I shot two tapes before being able to check the footage, and lost a lot of good material.

Not to metion the fact that tapes are really expensive in Mexico, at around 15-20$ US at some places. I cleanned out the city just to get 15 tapes. Do this in Africa and you are........

I am back in Mexico at this moment doing followup shoots, and I am not chancing it with checkin luggage. Going back to Canada the tapes will sit with my bottles of tequila (in zip-locks incase I drop the bag), and will never leave my paws!!

I also take my camera as my cabin luggage, I just don't trust people not to break it, or send it to Afganistan by accident.

Michael

How did it damage your tapes? What does an X-ray damaged tape playback like, image wise?

When I checked the tape there were lots of dropouts. I tried three tapes and all had the same problems, I had used one before leaving and it was fine. I had put a box of tapes in my checkin, and they were fine too.

On this trip I broght a rough edit, and forgot it in the camera, and it has the same problem now too.

My XL1s does get some dropout with both Sony and Panasonic tapes, but not the level of the scanned tapes.

michael

Traveling with tape? Since 9/11 I have logged about 50,000 air miles. I shoot both video and still photos. My experience with security has generally been good. The information that says X-Ray will not damage videotape is based on the fact that video is a magnetic medium and not emulsion based light sensitive silver halide film. With that said I am still too paranoid to place videotape in my checked luggage. As a magnetic medium we all kno we should protect it from magnetic exposure such as electrical motors. I wonder if Michael’s drop-outs could have been caused by his luggage being paused near some source of magnetic interference? Just a wild theory, but food for thought? Not knowing what happens to my tape through the entire handling process is enough for me to keep it with me.

My traveling system is to carry the XL1 by hand, out of the case, onto the plane. It sits between my feet, or on my lap for take off and landing. The tape and other job critical items are in a carry-on bag. By having the camera out of a bag I never get hassled about having it and a carry on bag.

I believe the official TSA rules are that you have the right to not have your film x-rayed. In practice, I have found this to not be true. On many occasions security has just flat out told me it is the law, everything must be x-rayed, including my 35mm film, which can be damaged. Even though I request a hand search, my videotape has never been damaged when they do x-ray it.

And of course international travel is a different story, Canadian Customs is hard enough to get through, shopping for tape in Mexico, tough.

Sorry I wrote a novel here.

TSA SOP for the checkpoint is to handcheck if the passenger requests. If you run into a problem ask to speak with a supervisor or the checkpoint manager before hand.

There are two key comments posted above that will keep your travels pleasant. Get to the airport early and make your requests in a decent way.

Look, I don't mean to preach, but some things in life have never changed. Kindness and understanding will always get you farther than throwing a fit. Last week I got to the Memphis airport 1 1/2 hours early and walked into a spring break rush. I never even made it to the security check point before my flight time. This was an unusual situation and there was many upset people missing their flights. People were going nuts and yelling at the ticket agents and security people, which is always a bad idea. When I got to the counter I was kind and told the agent I understood the situation was not her fault. She was so glad to deal with someone that was not giving her grief she called a supervisor over to approve giving me a confirmed seat on a later flight instead a stand-by reservation on an oversold flight! Again, I am not preaching, I mean this as a real travel tip. Gate agents and security people are doing a critical job, I am always amazed at you often I see people giving them a hard time. When things are discretionary, rude people do not get the breaks.

Don - it sounds like you work at an airport? Am I correct?

I meant to say “how often” not “you often”. I was not implying anyone here was rude.

If something is standard operating procedure it should be in writing somewhere. So people can get hold of it and politely produce it in front of security officers who might not at all times be fully aware of SOP.

Also, if security screening is or is not potentially damaging to digital tapes why isn't there an official say-so?

What I'm saying is that even though the authorities can not take responsibilitiy for your tapes, they can and should take away the guesswork around it. And then, if one screening is OK, what about three or five in succession? Does the damage accumulate?

Plus, let's say I look like I was born and raised in North Africa and I hold a passport from a country outside of, say NATO. I travel with some DV equipment and I want it hand-checked and I want to carry it onboard myself. Just how early must I go to the airport and how decently must I make my requests to get a pleasant flight out of an American city?

I asked that provocative question to remind you of the delicate balance between security and decency. Because that is the real issue here, isn't it?

Tor

Security SOP's will be by their very nature sensitive documents and can not be viewed by those who have no need to know their contents [anyone who is not performing the job]. This is done in order to protect the very nature of both the contents and those who we are attempting to protect. Like it or not that's the way it is in the security related business. If everyone knows what the screeners are doing or should do in a particular situation then the bad guys know how to plan better - we'd rather leave them in the dark as much as possible.

And yes I do work at an airport. Up till August 2002 I was the Sr Special Agent for the FAA's Civil Aviation Security in the Great Lakes Region (headquartered in Chicago IL). I've got 31 years federal service that includes 8 years military (I'm a combat vet) as well as being a former federal air marshal. I am currently a training coordinator with the TSA where I get to interact with the screeners on almost a daily basis - at least until I retire in Oct this year.

I think this discussion is going into a political stance - that's one area I do not plan on entering. Everyone has their own thoughts on what is good security especially at an airport. The TSA is doing a very good job. Please remember that the TSA is not yet 2 years old and has yet to have a full 12 months under it's belt actually providing security at US airports. With this in mind there's bound to be a few bumps in the road.

As for me ... I'm leaving here Friday for AZ where I hope to put my XL1S to good use.

i bought a lead bag normally used for photographic film and I use that for my tapes. I don't think it's necessary but I don't want to chance it. I had the bag hand-inspected recently when they couldn't see inside the lead bag but that's fine with me.

I've flown some 40,000 miles since 9/11, including trips to Hong Kong and Japan, and have had minimal problems. The last three months I have flown out of Orange County or Los Angeles to Vancouver and have been treated courteously by the TSA. My luggage was searched, usually but not always in my presence, and my carryons, including my GL2 in its case, usually opened.

The most thorough search came at Reagan in DC when I had to remove my belt (but not my shoes) and my WD-58 was looked at very closely. Ironically, Canadian Customs looked in a perfunctory fashion at my camera gear but was very interested in my harmonica. Seems the inspector had just taken up playing the harp and wanted to hear how my Suzuki sounded. (Or maybe he just wanted to talk.)

US Customs in Vancouver has had a very poor reputation over the years and supposedly Janet Reno made a special trip to straighten things out. She may or may not have actually done that, perhaps it was another urban legend, but the agents have been much friendlier (as measured on a micrometer) and my experiences have been smooth and efficient.

Sorry about the length,
Sandy

What about those de-magnetising pads at stores like Best Buy, etc?... I've always wondered if they can screw up tapes. Because they can ruin credit cards, floppy disks, and other data media....

It's quite possilbe the the X-Rays themselves may not be damaging the digital data on tapes. BUT to generate X-rays, large high voltage transformers are used. In addition to the HV they generate, they also generate strong magnetic fields that could (depending on how well they are shielded and the proximity to the luggage) significanlty affect any magnetic medium (tapes, hard drives, floppys etc.)

Just my thoughts. All my tapes will continued to be hand carried!

Yes Andrew....

Demagnetizing pads such as the ones in stores will certainly at least partially erase any DV tape.

Regarding Buds usage of lead bags for tapes, I am not sure that will help a lot. There are 2 different types of radiation involved here. Photographic film is sensitive to electromagnetic radiation.

Visible light is itself electromagnetic radiation within a certain frequency range. X-rays are fundamentally similar to visible light, just in another frequency range. Thus the worry of exposing film to X-rays. Lead is very effective in stopping electromagnetic radiation, thus lead lined bags can effectively protect film from this type of radiation, just like medical personel wearing lead lined protection suits when X-raying people.

DV tape on the other hand is information recorded magnetically. It is thus sensitive to a magnetic field which is something rather different. Magnetic fields are generated by magnets - no surprise there - as well as lots of electrical equipment. Most notably transformers such as power supplys, electrical motors etc.

To boil it down to something simple: A photographic film will be destroyed if you open the camera and expose it to sunlight. A magnetic tape can safely be exposed to sunlight as it actually normally is through the little window in the cassette.

A photographic film on the other hand will not care if you place a strong magnet right on top of it, leave it on top of a speaker etc. Do the same with magnetic tape and you will certainly ruin the information on it.

I have personally had film close to an MRI scanner, which is based on an extremely strong magnetic field. The field was sufficiently strong to make the camera misbehave at distances of less than 15 feet from the scanner. Ie. the shutter got stuck etc. The pictures came out just fine though.

So my guess is that if tapes are harmed in airport scanners it will be just as Rob said, not by the X-rays themselves but by magnetic fields emitted as a side effect by the machinery involved.

Hans Henrik

The coercitivity (magnetic strength) of mini DV tapes is very high. Consumer bulk tape erasers (Radio Shack) lack sufficient power to adequately erase mini DV tapes. If a bulk tape eraser won’t erase a tape, I don’t think the magnets in an electric motor (some distance from the tapes) will have any effect on tapes.

I'm not really interested in security SOP or learning anything that might compromise TSA's work. All I want is clarity about what to expect at the checkpoint with respect to commonly carried items, and consistency from station to station.

The question here is what is the policy? What is the official policy regarding how video tape are screened and where can a citizen find an unambiguous, official statement of that policy?

Will, why would there be a need for an"unambigious official statement" for something which is known as pure fantasy? Even if the magnetic fields which are found in airport area's (and others) would be several orders of magnitude stronger (so that for example a CRT display would no longer show a readable image) video tapes will still not be affected.

"I put 10 of my 15 tapes through the scanner, and wrecked all of them. I shot two tapes before being able to check the footage, and lost a lot of good material."

I doubt that your tape was damaged by the Xray before you used it. I've been through Pearson (Toronto)several times a month since 9/11 and had absolutely no problem. I haven't had a problem anywhere in North America and where I go, my camera goes.

Chicago, Dallas/Ft Worth, St Louis, Minneapolis, Molene Il, Boise, Phoenix, Portland , Omaha , Toronto, Montreal,Thunder Bay, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Kelowna, Castelgar, Grande Prairie , Saskabush and the list goes on. Some of the whistle stops are scarier than the big city.

The help is better trained , better equipped and thankfully more courteous (on both sides of the border) The emphasis seems to be shifting away from just xray and includes the detection of explosive residues.

There used to be a consistent policy for film, that the equipment would not damage it but one could request physical inspection. In those days I heard both stories, damage and no problem. Some years ago I was sitting next to a professional photographer on the plane and discussed it with her; she said she always allowed a few extra minutes so she could request inspection, having lost some of her higher speed film to fog. After that I followed her example or mailed the film.

Now I'm hearing both sides about video tape. In the absence of a clear consensus, I would be inclined to ask for physical inspection -- not getting the tapes near the equipment avoids the problem. But is that possible? What is TSA's policy about magnetic media? How can we find out?

"Now I'm hearing both sides about video tape. In the absence of a clear consensus, I would be inclined to ask for physical inspection -- not getting the tapes near the equipment avoids the problem. But is that possible? "

Both sides? One person had what he thought were problems related to X Ray, and that was one trip. A number of us have stated that we travel constantly with no ill effect.

I would certainly carry the tapes with you. If inspection actually does occur on checked baggage, there is a lot more chance of damage using magnetic imaging.

When carrying the tape with you , you may be denied hand inspection and would certainly be required to unwrap the packaging if it were hand inspected. The Xray will not affect the tape anyway. I had one tape in my small TRV20 that went through 4 security checks in one trip alone. That tape most likely got Xrayed a dozen times.

You used to be able to courier film ahead but with the new security God knows what they subject Fed Ex or other air courier shipments to.

I can't speak for all the machines, but I know that I had tapes damaged, so if you feel confident that they don't effect tapes, then be my guest.

I was just back in Mexico last week and did a test with a tape that I checked first, and when it went through the scanner at Pearson, it had the same dropouts after. They are not bad, and happen ever few minutes, but it's enough for concern, and on my original trip wrecked a bunch of great shots.

I have read up on the X-rays scanners, and know that they are electromagnetic light that should not harm the tapes. But maybe the machine itself generates some magnetic fields. Who knows.

As far as being nice goes, that always helps, I just told them that the tapes can not go through the machine, and they were great. They checked the boxes, and let me go through. They checked my camera for explosives which made me happy. I flew 5 days after sept 11th to Africa, and nobody even looked at my camera or equipment. Got to love Canadian passports.

Well I think that people have enough to make a decision on, but if others would like to take and old (with footage) and run a test for all of us.

michael

I really think you should be looking elsewhere for the problem. I fly out of TO and as I have said never had an issue, does that rate as a test. I had around two hours of tape from Phoenix around 3 weeks ago with no dropouts.

What about the return trip from Mexico. The problem may not be with Pearson's machines.

I saw it on a monitor in Mexico before coming back. I know what you are saying though, I sent some tapes through the scanner in Nirobi last year and had dropout problems, I thought it was the old camera I was using, but don't know.

Could be the tape brand.

Africa- Fugi (some tapes had dropout)
Mexico 1- Panasonic (problem was with 10 tapes)
Mexico 2- Sony (Panasonic was damaged as my test, sony's are fine)

Are you mixing tapes? Fuji, Pana and Sony all in the same camera?

Yeah, if you're mixing tape brands (especially Sony vs. Panasonic) without running a head cleaner between brands, then that's probably the cause of your drop outs. This is a far more likely reason than an airport X-ray machine. We've had several discussions going about the pitfalls of tape brand mixing. Hope this helps,

You have to handle "film" differently than video tape.

You can carry film thru the golden arches, but not thru the x-ray if it is over 800 asa.

Video tape can go thru the x-ray because it is not magnetic. I have flown twice this year overseas and had no trouble with my camcorder bag with all tapes going thru the x-ray machine for your personal stuff.

They tell you everything has to go thru this x-ray machine, but if you look up the TSA rules, and your rights, you will see that, if you want to hand carry something like film, they have to inspect it manually. I just hope they won't want to open it up! They should be able to tell a real 35mm role of film by turning the winder thingy. But, no matter the countries I have been in, Vietnam [during 9-11] Lithuania, dominican republic, Colombia, Venezella, Philippines, India.... I have NOT ever had trouble with DV video tape going thru X-RAY machines.

glenn

Glenn recommendation of 800 ISO film or slower (400, 200, 100 etc.) speed film going through X-rays and being safe can be misleading. X-ray dosages are cumulative. That is why the dental technician wears a lead apron. She would be exposed to X-ray dosages day in, day out and would build to a dangerous level.

Film works the same way, each time it passes through an X-ray machine, a base level of fog (exposure) is added enough repeated dosages and even slow film can be ruined.

well....... I have not carried film in a few years. And these days, I imagine there would be more passes through the x-ray machine than in years past.

glenn

Also on a multi-leg trip overseas it might ultimately go through an X-ray machine 8 to 10 times. Each pass will add a little fog to the base exposure.

Hand inspection is safest and lead bags are the next best thing.

well, these days I would not want to try a lead bag. If they can not see thru it, and it is dense, they want to search it. I have had many screeners tell me everything had to go thru x-ray, and then I read the rules in a magazine while in the air. I carry those rules with me so if need be, I can force them to inspect something rather than x-ray. I wonder what they think could be fit in to a 35mm cartridge?

glenn

Our rules do not apply to overseas travel. Foreign inspectors my not hand inspect your film. Lead bags offer some protection against X-rays. It may be over kill for domestic travel, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Hey guys--This is probably a stupid question, but better safe than sorry. I will be taking all my tapes (87 hours worth) on a move from New York to Oregon and will be going through airport security with them. Do I need to worry about them being xrayed? As far as I know, only magnetic fields can destroy tape, not x-rays, but I just want to make sure, for obvious reasons. I have backed up about 70 hrs of ftg and will be Fedexing that to myself, but there is still 17 hrs that I only have one copy of. Also, I'll be taking two external hard drives through security. OK, thanks for the advice!

Peter

I think there's been a good amount of discussion here regarding this.
Since I've just returned from 3 location shoots in the past month, we haven't had any problems with running tapes through machines. I would not check them with baggage however- always hand carry.

Good luck,
Jeff Patnaude

thanks Jeff!

I know this is a long dead thread but I stumbled upon it while looking for other stuff so let me add my experience...

In early 2004 I traveled to Amsterdam by flying out of Pittsburgh and stopping off in DC both ways. I carried my GL2 and the Panasonic 80 and 60 minute miniDV tapes in my Kata carry on soft bag.

Both as blanks, and tapes filled with various types of footage the bag was passed through the screeners. That includes the re-check through customs in both directions.

I know this is just my experience and through only a couple of airports but all of my tapes, and my partners tapes came through it with no issues.

-Kevin

Thanks Kevin,

As one of the original cautionist, I thought I should post that since then I have been back to africa a couple of times, and had my tapes scanned with no problems. Looks like I just had bad tape stock

X-Rays do not affect video tapes as the rays are not magnetic.

Even going through the MAG checkpoints that you walk through, which are magnetic, wouldn't erase your tapes. We have to use a monster of a degausser to erase our tapes.

X-Rays are cummulative on film. Every time a roll is x-rayed it is actually exposed a tiny bit. If you do this repeatedly you will end up fogging your film.

Regardless, you should never, ever, check your "exposed" tapes. They should always travel with you in your carry-on.

RB

Hey

After living year in states i got lots of recorded tapes and also bunch of blanks. Now its time to go back to Europe and I was thinking to put all of them on carry on, but then, whats about x-rays at airport security and stuff, could it damage them? Should i put tapes in check in bag?
Really need your help!

thanks

Andzei

Last year I had to fly across country to shoot a documentary. I too was curious about the best way to do this. So I shot some footage onto two tapes. Just some random images. Then I loaded one tape in my carry-on, along with blank tapes, and one tape in my checked luggage, also with blank tapes.

I am told the checked luggage was x-rayed. Despite my best attempts to talk them out of it, my carryon luggage was ALSO x-rayed as I went through check in.

I detected NO Loss of image, drop outs or other anomolies in either test batch.

My concern was not for the X-ray's per se, but for the magnetic field generated by the machine. Apparently, it did no damage...

At least on my flight from San Francisco to Houston and Back.

I suppose it's possible that this scenario would not hold, at other airports with different gear at different times.



Bottom line. My suggestion is to carryon the tapes, and ask that they hand check without x-raying. Then throw yourself on their mercy if they decide to do it anyway. Chances are good that no harm will come.