I find myself in a very scenic location, the South Island of New Zealand, with lots of time on my hands and a desire to capture the extraordinary beauty of this place, winter and summer, using a video camera. I know it’s been done before, but not by me. I could use my EX1, and I might anyway, but I’m thinking Black Magic Cinema camera as from the footage I’ve seen shot with this machine it might have more to offer for what I want – scenic eye candy.

Have I got that right? Is the BMC the best tool for the job, better than the EX1? Should I consider another camera keeping in mind the serious budget constraints, less than $12,000.00 all up?

If indeed the BMC is the best choice then which model, what lenses, and what accessories do I need? (I have a high quality tripod, a half-decent home-made slider and a well-heated 9 meter fully self-contained motorhome with a built-in computer work station and a Toyota Corolla in tow and lots of coffee and canned beans).

Suggestions truly appreciated.

You might start off by mentioning how you'll use the camera. An EX-1 or similar is great for run and gun, for live performances where you have to quickly change framing, etc.

According to what I've read with the BMCC you get more dynamic range (which is a biggy), and especially if shooting RAW, more room to process in post. Plus more resolution. But you'll find the convenience of a zoom lens that keeps it's focus and aperture constant pretty near impossible to find and expensive if one is out there, so quick changes are not going to happen.

And shooting RAW involves a lot of computer power and post work. So partly it's what you want and how you'll use it, then people can give advice.

You might start off by mentioning how you'll use the camera. .

Thanks Eric, I should be more explicit. My plan is to shoot scenic eye candy and of course that’s definitely not run and gun. Oh contraire, it means studied shots, serious planning and tons of time to get it right, very limited use of zoom, pan and such camera moves. Quick changes of anything are not likely, not necessary, and totally the opposite of what I have in mind. To give an example I might just hang about Central Otago for a few weeks waiting for the autumn colours to come and go; quick shall not be part of the vocabulary. Live performance – not even remotely on my mind.

Computing horsepower - I have a state-of-the-art PC so computer processing should not be a constraint.

I am aware of the points you raise regarding the BMC camera and the dynamic range advantage, in fact that’s why I’m considering this camera.

So regarding how I will use the camera think ‘studied outdoor set pieces’. I also have a stabilized helicopter rig which I might also use.

I hope that clarifies things somewhat.

Cheers.

I use the Black Magic Hyper Deck Shuttle ( which you might want to consider using with your EX1) and which records, as I understand it, the same varying file formats available on the Black Magic Cinema Camera. These include an uncompressed format, as well as a compressed ProRes format, that is great.

Certainly, you could feed hdmi out of the EX1 and that may be exactly what you want using the Hyperdeck. As you are getting into Cinema cameras, you may find shallower depth of field to be a hinderence to getting a sharp and sparkling nature shot. Shooting with the Shuttle at a $ 327.00 investment, plus the cost of media, may give what you want without laying out $ 3k for the Black Magic Cinema camera.

Then there is still the issue of whether you can even get the Cinema camera.

Thanks Chris, hadn’t thought of that approach. And while going that route would enable one to work with other than that which the EX1 outputs internally the BMC ‘look’ that impresses reviewers, and me, might not necessarily happen as there is more going on with the BMC than compression type. Of course I would love to hear from someone who has compared footage from the EX1 with footage from the BMC and now that more and more BMC’s are shipping I imagine we might see such comparisons.

My gut feel is that no matter what I do with my EX1 the footage will not look as sweet as the footage from the BMC. I might well be wrong and using the approach you have suggested might be the answer.

My gut feel is that no matter what I do with my EX1 the footage will not look as sweet as the footage from the BMC. I might well be wrong and using the approach you have suggested might be the answer.

No I think that's exactly right. I just sold my EX1r which was a great camera, but it can't touch 2.5k raw.

Duane:

Have you actually compared the two in a side by side situation. I've got the Black Magic on order, but I was not expecting it would be that great in the kind of photography described here, but I will be thrilled if it is.

Chris, check this out. When your BMCC arrives you might just be thrilled.

Drive Through Snow Canyon with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera on Vimeo

Duane:

Have you actually compared the two in a side by side situation. I've got the Black Magic on order, but I was not expecting it would be that great in the kind of photography described here, but I will be thrilled if it is.

I wish. If I get the Blackmagic it will be the MFT version so it will be awhile. I've only compared downloadable Vimeo footage and the detail and color from the Blackmagic raw is superior to anything I've shot with my EX1. I prefer the way the Sony handles motion, but the OP said most shots will have limited use of pan or zoom.

Chris, check this out. When your BMCC arrives you might just be thrilled.

Drive Through Snow Canyon with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/54121694)

WOW. great choice of music and beautiful shots. Exciting times for filmmakers! and why the hell can't everybody have an affordable camera that can shoot like that? Canon, are you listening? the next version of this camera, if it improves on some issues, may be a giant killer. this version is already wounding the giants, i think, and it really isn't even fully 'out'.

My gut feel is that no matter what I do with my EX1 the footage will not look as sweet as the footage from the BMC.

To me it looks like you are already very sure you will need a BMC to capture what you are after so why even compare it with a ex1, they are totally different camera's for different purposes, if you have the time and the hardware to deal with the raw workflow then just go for it. Also keep in mind that if you find a awesome looking bmc clip, don't expect that you will be getting the same result just like that, it requires experience as I have seen some bad looking bmc clips as well.

The reason, Noa, that I’m comparing the BMCC with the EX1 is because I already have an EX1 and it is a very capable machine and I have shot some nice scenic footage with it. 'Very sure I need a BMC' - 'want' is the operative word and you are half-right; I believe I am of the opinion that the BMC is capable of delivering a more pleasing image and my mind is half made up, if you will. OK, maybe more than half.

Yes, I do have the time and the (computing) hardware but before I just go for it I’m seeking to prevent buyer’s remorse by soliciting the opinion of you excellent fellows here and in particular I need suggestions regarding a couple of starter lenses that won’t break the bank.

Indeed I have viewed lots of awesome footage already, there is tons out there, and some rubbish I might add (tons of that too especially hand-held). However the general consensus among the ‘experts’ is that the image this camera produces is right up there with machines costing 10x to 20x the price and while shooting with it is not for the faint-hearted or someone on the run for someone (me for instance) with time and patience (and a background in photography – countless hours in the darkroom) it will deliver.

So yes, let’s forget the EX1 and move on to the configuration of my new BMCC.

Why the MFT version?

What lenses?

Wonder how far out the 4K version is. One of the reasons I haven't jumped on the BMCC is because it only shoots 1080p unless you use raw which is then 2.5K. I think it's a given they will have a 4k version which means the 2.5k is just an intermediary step.

OK, I’ve been doing a little digging around and here are my current thoughts.

One: the MFT version has not been released yet. I believe I have a much better chance of obtaining an EF mount version in the not too distant future while the MFT version is probably some time away.

Two: while the MFT version is said to enable a larger selection of lenses it seems to me that people already shooting with the EF version are doing just fine. Why would I need a ‘larger selection of lenses’?

I think I might go with an EF mount version because of availability and pick up just a couple of appropriate lenses?

How am I doing?

Wonder how far out the 4K version is. One of the reasons I haven't jumped on the BMCC is because it only shoots 1080p unless you use raw which is then 2.5K. I think it's a given they will have a 4k version which means the 2.5k is just an intermediary step.

No way you can record 4k uncompressed raw on a SSD.
They would have to go with a compressed format, but you really need a 6k sensor to get 4k out of it by debayering. I doubt we gonna see that soon on a BMC.

If you want compressed 4k of a 4k chip, you probably get better quality by upscaling uncompressed 2.5k raw, like Deakins did it with Skyfall.

Frank

Two: while the MFT version is said to enable a larger selection of lenses it seems to me that people already shooting with the EF version are doing just fine. Why would I need a ‘larger selection of lenses’?


1. You already have lenses with a different mount system that would slap onto the MFT version just fine with an adapter.
2. Given the crop factor of the BMCC, having super-wides can be important. If you don't already have them, picking one up for less expensive may be easier if not locked into Canon EF mount.

But if you already have Canon EF lenses and have the wide end of things covered, go for it.

Chris, check this out. When your BMCC arrives you might just be thrilled.

Drive Through Snow Canyon with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/54121694)

Nice stuff !!

Nice, yes indeed, however a good question is ‘why’.

I downloaded the original and looked closely. The most compelling aspect to me is the smoothness, the lack of annoying camera shake, the way he used stabilization. He tells us he used a Kenyon 4x4 Gyro (costing more than the camera) and a Blackbird.

Also the location is clearly quite spectacular, even footage of that landscape shot with a cell phone in the right hands would be impressive, I imagine.

And yes, it appears that the detail in the clouds and the shadows indicates excellent dynamic range so that’s good.

I must say, however, the nagging question notwithstanding my gut feel alluded to earlier, is that shooting that kind of stuff with my EX1 I might come close enough. I’m certainly not among the many that look at this footage and say ‘what a great camera’. And if we turn a deaf ear to the ‘experts’ for a moment and trust our own eyes (and play around in Da Vinci Lite perhaps)...

I’m thinking again.

...and again, and again. Well, I am so totally unprofessional, all this dicking about...it’s fun, and it keeps me off the streets. At the end of the day the EX1 is just too noisy. I know it’s a great run and gun camera but that’s less and less what I do, and reading Alister Chapman’s blog - his comments on the BMCC - that did it!

I placed an order.

as someone who considered the BMCC and got a GY-HM600 instead... I envy you :D I expect to be doing more run and gun type work, and really like the ENG style of camera controls, but 'dat picture!'

Next camera's a BMCC :P

Thanks for your comment, Tim, and I know what you mean about ergonomics and run and gun work, and seems the BMCC is not strong in that regard, to say the least. I’m sure you made a good choice. But for my intended use – as you say ‘dat picture’!

But what lenses?

As I search around the internet the easy and seemingly most frequently stated approach for the EF mount version is get a Tokina 11-16mm , a Canon EF-S 17-55mm F2.8 and a Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8 IS II.

Right. That’s another $4300.00US and almost double that in New Zealand dollars. Not small change!

Other folks suggest forget the zooms and get a bunch of primes. Now if one was fortunate enough to be like Chris Barcellos and have a cupboard full of old lenses then it’s a piece of cake however when it comes to lenses I’m starting from scratch both in regard the hardware itself and the knowledge needed to make informed choices.

Oh well, lots of research...time. Whatever, part of getting there.

One of the first things I will do upon arrival of the camera is to attach some of my old Nikon lenses and see just how much the smaller chip will affect my favorite full frame lenses. In other words, would I just pull the camera back and use same lens for same coverage, or do I actually go to a shorter focal length. I suspect it will be a bit of each, depending on what I am looking for in light gathering.

Of course, in a small room, I will have a problem, as my shortest focal length possible camera with my current lens stock is my 18mm to 55mm Kit lens for the T2i. Delivery expected tomorrow. I will update as I go along.

John, if you get the BMCC, you might want to rent some lenses, take them to a favorite spot that works for getting both wides and close shots. Play with them. Usually lens rental is pretty cheap and you may be able to get them via mail-order if there isn't a camera rental place nearby. I'm a 30 year video vet using pro and broadcast cameras, and when I got my GH2 I found a whole different approach; the camera was important but the lenses that people used were what they felt gave the images much of their 'personality'.

So if you can borrow or rent some lenses first...might be a cheaper way to get a feel for what you want. Just a thought.

And an absolutely excellent thought at that, Eric, I reckon - many thanks. I was more or less coming to that conclusion, or rather a similar even cheaper alternative. I know this fellow who lives in the village where I’m currently located and he is the head honcho of the local photographic group, has the latest greatest Canon DSLR and I imagine a huge collection of EF mount lenses. I thought I might pop round and pay a visit, tomorrow. He lives right by the village gardens so I have ideal subject matter right there.

Based on the limited research I’ve done thus far I was, and still am, considering the lens John Brawley used for his Bondi shoot, the ‘nifty and very cheap Canon 15-85’. The people I’m purchasing my BMCC from tell me for what I want to do that’s a good choice. For shooting a TV thing in a studio then primes, for sure, but a zoom is a good choice when shooting from a goat track on the edge of a mountain where getting the camera closer or further away from the subject is essentially impossible as is carting a suitcase full of primes to the shooting locations, and the difference in image quality, especially where one has tons of light, will be minimal.

Makes sense to me. Comments, suggestions most appreciated.

However, trying before buying is the really smart thing to do, and probably fun enough at that. If this photo person is agreeable...

The camera is due mid next week!

I have had the camera for 4 days now, and I can see that i am going to have to do a lot fo testing to get things right.

In my first time out yesterday, I used the Canon Kit lens, and then, for dramatic effect on the subject I was shooting, switched to a Nikon 135mm lens, for a compressed telephoto effect. The effect was great, but. I added a variable ND to allow control of the iris. The ND muddied up the color and image. Guess what, neutral density filters aren't really neutral..


Admittedly, I don't have a high end variable ND, but the differences between the two lenses used are so great that I likely won't cut the stuff together, and I am going to have to go back out and reshoot. Luckily, its only a few miles back out there.

The ND muddied up the color and image. Guess what, neutral density filters aren't really neutral..

Cheap ones will gives you issues, if you want to use a variable ND filter and want a good one I would suggest the Genus Eclips.

Went directly to the Genus site, and says they are sold out on most sizes. Must have run out of good glass. Funny, a few months back I recommended to different people just to use the rubber hood to rotate their faders, and what do you know, I had been doing that for a couple of years. Genus is marketing the hoods that way. That is first time I have seen that.

If you are using quality glass and a camera like the bmc you should get the best filter you can find, regardless what it costs because if can have a very negative effect on the image quality, below are 2 tests, nothing scientific, but which show what effect a filter can have on your image.

Quick Test: Cokin "Pure Harmonie Variable ND Filter" on Vimeo
Genus Eclipse ND Fader filter test on Vimeo

Standard ND filtration is the issue with creating muddy looking shots. The higher the ND filter used the more the muddied effect.

You have to go to IRND (Infra Red Neutral Density) filters instead of standard ND.

There has been some testing done with this issue and the Tiffen IRND filters seem to work the best for the BMCC sensor.

The Red cameras also require IRND and are susceptible to Infra Red contamination.

Some of it can be fixed in Resolve; but best to remove it during shooting.

We already have full sets of ND 4X4 - so I am wondering if we can buy just a single IR filter and then use all the existing standard ND filters in stack with the single IR filter.