I'm really having a hard time deciding if I need a C100 + Ninja 2 or a C300 for some upcoming work.

I film in aircraft and my XF300 just doesn't cut it in the low light of the flightdeck.

The C100 seems to have a few features that are better than the C300 for this type of work mainly the push AF and push Isis buttons, the Auto White Balance and the ISO control on the body rather than in the menu system. I wouldn't use these features all of the time but I could see that they might be very useful when there is a lot of action happening and you don't have time to set everything up.

The C300 doesn't require the Ninja which could be another thing to get in the way and have to set up. I like it's slightly larger form factor more when I tried one a year ago. I also like the fact that there is the small display on the back for audio levels and the fact that it shoots CF cards not SD as I have quite a few CF cards.

In the UK I could get a package that has a C100 + Ninja 2 for about £5300 but the C300 on it's own is £10,400 minimum price. So there is quite a big difference.
I don't know which to buy because on one hand I don't want to get the C300 and find I don't need it's extra features over the C100 but on the other hand I don't want to get a C100 and wish I had spent a bit more on the C300. So hard to decide!

Can anyone give me any guidance on how best to use my money on getting the right equipment?

Thanks in advance,

Andy

In a similar quandary , decided to go for the c100 plus ninja. I like the screen on the back,of the LCD on the c100 instead of the handle mount LCD on the c300

The c100 is half the price of the c300 , but it's certainly not half the camera.

I've been shooting with both cameras recently.

The C300 is our A cam for a documentary about barge workers on the Mississippi river (BARGE (http://www.bargefilm.com/)), and it has been a real treat to work with. The image so impressed me that, in accordance with more of a bootstrap budget, I chose the C100/Ninja 2 as the A cam for another documentary (The Show Must Go On | A film about high school drama. (http://www.oneactplaymovie.com/)).

Yesterday was actually the first opportunity I've had to put the C100 and myself through a full (very full) production day, shooting mostly handheld with with the Ninja strapped to the top. I don't have the Ninja attached in a way that I'm fully satisfied with yet, but all things considered I found this setup to be quite user friendly. The often-complained-about EVF was perfectly usable with a few adjustments in the menu and a $7 eye cushion. The workflow, thanks to the Ninja, was a snap - my director downloaded all the high-bitrate, Avid friendly footage before we made it home from location.

Obviously the camera has some flaws, but all told I found the C100/Ninja equally easy to use as the C300. SD cards are relatively cheap, and straight out of the camera the internally recorded video looks identical to the stuff recorded on the Ninja. Depending on your exact needs, I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost of the C300.

If the budget is really tight though, I'd find the C100 hard to justify, what with all those FS-100/Ninja/Speedboosters right over there.

Hi andrew , would you be able to post any pics of your set up / rig with the c100? Do you have a link to the eye cushion you mentioned?

Cheers

James

Hi James. Sure, I posted a photo of the setup in post number 8 of this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/new-canon-cinema-eos-camera-systems/512610-c100-rode-ntg3-ws7-plus-canon-10-22mm-lens.html

I'm trying to configure the Ninja so that it's balanced and out of the way. This setup is working along those lines, but I'd rather have one connector between the handle and the Ninja (instead of three: coldshoe, ball head, and the piece that connects them), even though this is plenty solid for run and gun. My setup also has the Ninja up higher than I'd like. I'm thinking a short articulating arm interfacing directly between the handle and the mounting hole the top of the Ninja will do the trick.

The eye cushion can be found here: Blue Star Extra Small Round Eye Cushion (Microfiber - Red) 20102

I'll continue to look for a better solution, but I liked this cushion enough that I ordered a backup right away. Blocks out all the light, and it's comfortable enough to jam into your eyeball!

Cheers andrew.

I chose the C300 for a few reasons.

Codec. I also have an AF-100 that shoots AVCHD and I wanted 4:2:2. Mainly for grading. The Canon MXF is solid and edits very easily. I'm not a fan of external recorders. Less stuff I have to attach to the camera the better off I am. I also need room for a Lectrosonics wireless. Not the smallest receiver out their.

Viewfinder and LCD are overall better and the placement of the LCD is more versatile.
SDI and HDMI out instead of only HDMI.

I work in broadcast so having genlock and timecode out is a plus.

Overcranking even if only at 720P. I need this.

These are the big ones. I like the C100 a lot as well but the C300 just fit what I do better. That's the real question to ask yourself.

I do wish the C300 had push to focus. I cant figure that one out.

I'd say if it comes down to shooting with C100 with the Ninja all the time versus the naked C300, I'd go with the C300. Having another piece of equipment with it's own battery hanging of the camera is not ideal. It partially eliminates the advantage of the C100, which is to be light and quick.

However, if you can live with the AVCHD (which to my eye looks quite good and adequate for my work), I'd go for the C100. It's lighter - that extra pound or two makes a big difference. My arms definitely feel it after shooting a whole day with the C300. The controls and features on the C100 are better for run and gun. I remain hopeful that these features will show up on the C300 with a firmware update.

When it comes to AVCHD vs MXF how much difference are we talking? My main output at this point would be either web (ie youtube/vimeo) or HD and BlueRay DVD to sell direct to public. For those uses how much difference is there likely to be between the two codecs?

I have used MXF in my XF camcorders and h.264 in my 1Dx but other than that I don't have much experience of other codecs.

To the naked eye not much. But if you do any green screen or grading then the 4:2:2 will help a lot.
You get uncompressed 4:2:2 8bit out of the HDMI so for those special shoots an external recorder would be great to use with the C100. I graded the AVCHD C100 Canon log footage and it did well. I was surprised that Canon added log with the C100. That's a nice feature if you like to grade.

These two spots were shot with the C100 in Canon log AVCHD. I did push it hard and for a couple of shots I wish I had a little more to work with but then I created the problem when I shot it.

The Specialist And Winter Weather Promos C100 on Vimeo

I do wish the C300 had push to focus. I cant figure that one out.

It doesnt have expanded focus? that seems crazy, does the C100?

It doesnt have expanded focus? that seems crazy, does the C100?

I wasn't aware the C300 doesn't have expanded focus. The C100 does, though it's not like the Canon DSLRs where you get multiple levels of expanded focus (nor can you move the area it expands either). I typical use it in conjunction with peaking, and haven't had any issues.

I use a C100 with a Ninja, and frankly I feel like the Ninja is light enough to not add much weight, while at the same time being an external monitor to boot! (not the best external monitor, but it's totally functional).

I just don't feel the price difference is worth it to get MPEG-2 50Mbps 4:2:2 when I can get ProRes HQ 4:2:2 for just $1k more with a bid of added weight.

C100 does have it. I'm stunned that the C300 wouldn't. It's what I hated about the AF100. Other than the sensor size, maybe the most important feature for what I do.

Sorry guys misunderstanding. The C300 doesn't have auto focus of any kind. "Push to focus" is what the C100 has (auto focus) The C300 does have magnification like the C100.

When it comes to AVCHD vs MXF how much difference are we talking? My main output at this point would be either web (ie youtube/vimeo) or HD and BlueRay DVD to sell direct to public. For those uses how much difference is there likely to be between the two codecs?

I have used MXF in my XF camcorders and h.264 in my 1Dx but other than that I don't have much experience of other codecs.

Sounds like the C100 is a great camera for you :D
The image is really good. If you dont need 4:2:2 (green screen and heavy post) then you cant go wrong with C100. I do wish the C100 had the same features the AF-100 has. 60fps, SDI, but the image is sooooooooo good. One thing I dont like about AVCHD is how the format gives every formatted card the same name. Like 000001. This is a pain when you have multiple cards in a project and for whatever reason they go offline (Premiere Pro editing native) Makes relinking a pain.

I love the C300. I agree with you that at times push AF to momentarily acquire the autofocus would have been great. Same is the case with white balance.

The C300 is small, so is the C100. With the addition of a ninja with mounting plates, rigs etc will take away the barebones shooting ability in tight spaces like cockpits. So despite the higher price of C300, I would prefer it over the C100. However, you have to look at the amount of convenience you want to sacrifice vis-a-vis the cost savings.

At times the C300 without its LCD is not noticeable and can help in stealth shooting. In one situation for about two days one guy was kind of treating me with contempt as he was thinking that I am also one of the numerous photographers with a long tele lens. Only when I attached the LCD and microphone did he realise that this is a serious camera. The EVF of the C300 is good. I extensively use the waveform and if that would have been available in the EVF of the C300 then I would not have used the LCD in a number of situations. The C300 EVF is better than that of the C100.

All the best for your decision.

Can anyone give me any guidance on how best to use my money on getting the right equipment?

Oh, the exquisite agony... But OTOH it's a bit like getting glasses - 'here, try mine, they work perfectly for me!'

I shoot large corporate events and all the marketing activity that surrounds them. I needed the large sensor look, need handheld abilities, R&G, and also I don't want to 'frighten the horses' with big imposing cameras.

I can wander round public spaces with a C100 round my neck wearing its 24-105 without attracting too much attention (other than fascinated members of the public interested in the camera). Couldn't quite do that with the C300.

However, when I first got the C100, I got into a huge tizzy - I wanted to sell off my EX1Rs and FS100 to part fund a C300. The C100 is very much a 'gateway drug' to C300 ownership for many.

If you need a broadcast codec all the time (I don't - AVCHD is fine most of the time, it's pretty much XDCAM anyway), if you need 720p50/60 for great SD, if you need on-board intervalometer timelapse or slomo, then okay - get the C300.

But if I were in cramped surroundings in low light (I frequently am when shooting backstage), if I needed to be diving in and out of cars to get to random locations where we know not what happens next, if I were to be shooting delegates who've paid $$$ to be at this event, I'd stick to the C100 - which I have done.

The C100 is by no means perfect, and there are some particularly sucky things about it (speaking as a Sony fanboy), but I'll trade the extra bells and whistles of the C300 for its sheer portability and hand-held ergonomics.


BTW - C300 owners: don't get too excited about the one-button AF. It's fun, but not totally reliable. When we have continuous AF, then we'll start boasting about it. Auto iris? Haven't used it. Will map its button to something more useful.

I wasn't aware the C300 doesn't have expanded focus. The C100 does, though it's not like the Canon DSLRs where you get multiple levels of expanded focus (nor can you move the area it expands either). I typical use it in conjunction with peaking, and haven't had any issues.

Hey Gary, just a quick Q. Are you able to use the expanded focus during recording?

Steve

Steve, just to answer your question "Are you able to use the expanded focus during recording?"

The answer is most definitely yes!

It's very, very useful as a quick check whilst recording, epsecially when run-n-gunning. Peaking can be shown during the punch in too (if desired).

Thanks Andy, was hoping that was the case. I had always been used to this on the EX1's and found it very useful but when I started shooting on the Pani AF101 it frustrated me that you couldnt check critical focus like this.

Steve

I'm still deliberating over a C300 or C100. I had a few minutes go with a C100 at Focus on Imaging show last week and I liked it much more than I thought I would. It felt bigger than I was expecting but not too big. I want something that is no really small and fiddly but not too large (I got the XF300 for that!).

A couple of negative points I wanted to run past current C100 owners to see what they think.
1 - The LCD screen is not as high res as on the C300. I didn't realise it until I read the Canon brochure but the C100 screen is the same as the XF100 and the C300 is the same as the XF300. Now I do like the XF300 screen over that on my XF100. In reality how big a deal is it? I mean I notice the difference when I have the XF100 and XF300 sat next to each other but might not notice if I was working with only one at a time, if you see what I mean.

2 - LCD placement. I found that I had to hold the C100 out in front of me quite a bit because of the rear mounted screen. Also a bit of the work I plan on doing in aircraft would involve me sitting with the camera kind of between my legs and I wonder in the screen at the rear would be an issue.


But then there is the price. I've been costing it up and including a few other items I need for other parts of my business and the balance VERY much swings to the C100. For the price of a C300 I could potnetially get;

C100
Ninja 2
5DmkIII DSLR body
85mm lens
35mm lens

That's a lot of equipment compared to just a C300. I kind of need all the extra things anyway so it would be more money to spend down the line if I got the C300 rather than all the equipment + C100.

It's so hard to decided and I really don't want to make the wrong decision as it could potentially lead to a lot of wasted cash one way or the other.

I just got back from the theaters at Mall of America where a short film I shot with the C100 played tonight. It looked DAMN good. External recorder, but wow. It held up in 2K in front of 400 people very well. Of course I was scrutinizing the picture the entire time rather then enjoying the movie!

Andy, I'm not crazy about the LCD either, but throw a small monitor on the hot shoe like a DP4 or even your ninja and you've got your larger monitor and perhaps even a recording device. Seems like problem solved as I like to shoot with the camera against my body or in my lap. Another must have item for the C100 is an Apple branded HDMI cable. Nice short and sturdy connectors and a flexible cable.

Nice,

Any links or trailers??

I didn't direct or edit, so I don't have the final movie in my hands. It was for a local festival that just premiered, so nothing is public facing quite yet. I'll make sure to post when it is. It's a 6 minute comedy short, so nothing too fancy, but nice clean images I was pretty happy with.