I was talking to the distributer of the paintball tournament video I released. He said he heard from two very reliable sources that one of the people in the tournament purchased a copy of the video and than began copying and distributing it to people for free. Maybe about 15 copies (so far). That's about $450 retail worth of videos.
Now, is there anything legaly I can do to him? I don't care if it costs me money, I just want to teach the a-hole a lesson.
Or failing that, give him a good legal scare.
I know I couldn't sue him, since I wouldn't be able to prove how many copies he made, and it would cost me more than it would be worth.

I'm mad, MAD, MAAAADDDD!

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : I was talking to the distributer of the paintball tournament video I released. He said he heard from two very reliable sources that one of the people in the tournament purchased a copy of the video and than began copying and distributing it to people for free. Maybe about 15 copies (so far). That's about $450 retail worth of videos.
Now, is there anything legaly I can do to him? I don't care if it costs me money, I just want to teach the a-hole a lesson.
Or failing that, give him a good legal scare.
I know I couldn't sue him, since I wouldn't be able to prove how many copies he made, and it would cost me more than it would be worth.

I'm mad, MAD, MAAAADDDD! -->>>

Yes there is something that you can do. Contact a lawyer and put it into his hands. What this idiot has done is called "theft." The law is on your side. You might also want to talk with your local police and file a report.

Now if it was me, I think I would be considering giving this clown a proper beat down (not that I am advocating this of course!).

Man I am sorry to hear this happened.

Having been in the (music) recording business for a while it really hacks me when people do this. Napster and the MP3 pirates have cost me TONS of money, this is no different. Piracy is theft, if we as a group of artists, camera operators, grips, videographers, and editors etc. allow people to do this, we are only helping to create an atmosphere where people believe it's thier "right" to copy our work. It's not! It's still theft, and every one of us suffers because of it. Imagine investing $50K (or more) in an album project only to have it end up as MP3's being downloaded for free. Your $450 is every bit as important, it's your paycheck, and that butthead is picking your pocket. Find some lawyer who will take it on contingency, he'll get 40% but you'll get paid and the moron probably won't rip videos in the future, and that will help us all.
my 2 cents
Mark

Dylan,

Please keep the board posted on what happens. I am very sympathetic and interested in what you will do.

My two cents too, if the fees of a lawyer get in your way, try Small Claims Court. I am not sure about what your legal situation, but I resolved a problem using the forementioned. There is a cap for what you can sue for under that particular court.

Maybe you have something similar...

Cheers!

Whistler BC must be opened by now. I hope to get out that way.

Breathe Deep...

Go!

Well, I'm still undecided what to do.
Unfortunately I know that I will not be able to prove anything in court. Obviously no one that got a pirated copy will testify against the guy. It's a tight community, and no one is going to sell out one of their own so it would come down to basically speculation against his word. Knowing something and proving it beyond a reasonable doubt are worlds apart. I'm going to talk to some other people in the community and see what they think about the situation. The guy plays on a team that's sponsored by a large store, so maybe I can bring some pressure against him through them.

Sadly, it's cheaper and easier to just go pay some guys to kick his a**, but then I'd probably go to jail and I'd still lose.




LHORIZON, I think Whistler just opened, but there is still no snow mid mountain from what I hear.

I wrote an article a few years ago and had this women look it over in Montreal. 2 to 3 weeks later, it was published in my local newspaper as a feature. I found out it was also syndicated. Of course, she didn't use her real name, and I did have it double registered to myself priar to having the article in front of someone else's nose. I got paid from the paper, but had to sign something that I won't take further action.

This was the first piece I had stolen, but it wasn't the last.

Dylan,

Bad news for you...if you take this to small claims court and win...there still is no way to make him pay you any damages...EVEN if the court orders him to. So, you'll be out the videotape fees and your time and expense in taking him to court.

I'd look into other options...but be careful whatever you do. If you make a public claim that he has pirated your work, and then he contacts his buddies and they all trash their copies and deny it, the tables could be turned on you.

Who investigates copyright issues in Canada? The RCMP? In the US it's the FBI. You don't have to prove it. The authorities will investigate and find proof. You can also get an attorney to threaten him. If nothing else you can scare the s**t out of him. The distributor could also write a letter threatening him with a law suit for loss of income etc.

There are other damages involved beyond the retail value of the tapes. Your good name and reputation has been damaged by the inferior copies he has produced. I would think $10,000 to $20,000 ought to cover your damages.

Jeff

One of the first things you will need is proof! Do you have some friends (non-family) willing to buy a copy of 'his' tape/VCD/DVD?

Some good witnesses are worth gold and will help you greatly!

Good luck!

Jeff,

I agree with you completely in cases of mass-pirating, but neither the FBI nor the RCMP or whoever is going to get involved in a case of a couple of dozen tapes distributed at no cost to friends.

And considering the amount mentioned earlier, this is a case for small claims court only.

Dylan, I get pissed off at this kind of stuff, too...but you have to shuck the emotional side and look at it strictly from a legal standpoint.

I worked for years in a job where I negotiated settlements daily with attorneys. All the attorneys knew the "court value" of the case, and always came up with settlement values below that amount. They knew that anyone in their right mind would rather pay $12,000 out of court, than pay $20,000+ to go to court and possibly lose...especially since insurance usually covered it. And that was just the small cases.

It all boils down to money...and your loss isn't substantial in the eyes of the law. Best thing to do is contact him directly (or his parents...if he's a minor) and in a calm, steady unemotional way let him know that you will "be forced to report him to the authorities" if he doesnt pony up the dough...and give him a deadline. Who knows, he might pay it. If he doesn't...move on.

I just contacted the paper, told them everything, gave them my copy of the article, and told them I have another copy sealed, which was mailed to myself---registered, dated.

If they would have taken this lightly, I would have taken the paper to small claims, with a TV reporter to sit in. Or, I would have hired a lawyer.

But in cases like this, the paper takes these kinds of matters very seriously. Regarding the RCMP, I doubt they would have done anything. They just go for the bigger cases, when they have reasons, such as proof or political pressure. Mind you, if you are somebody, they will work 100% for you; if you are nobody, they will do nothing. Welcome to Canada! Remember, Canada and Cuba are good friends. +_+

A lot of good advice being given here. I am NOT a lawyer, and you are NOT my client but I have some experience in this area, and I'll add my two cents.

You must DO something. Failing to do something is now that you know about it is the same as allwoing the product to slip into public domain. Silence is consent.

If you can't afford an attorney, I am sure there is a legal organization in your area, that will help you. In Texas, there is a Texas Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts where people can go for this kind of help. There was a similar orgaization in California when we lived there. Find them and present your case.

ALWAYS put the copyright logo on all your tapes. In the titles, and ON the tapes themselves.


And finally, regarding the so-called "Poor man's copyright" of mailing a copy to yourself. It's useless. It has no value in court. And here is the reason:

Today, I will mail an empty, un-sealed 8X10 envelope to myself. It will arrive, properly dated and stamped by the post office. I will then set this envelope on a shelf with the rest of my collection of dated, stamped envelopes. Then, some time next year, I will go and watch a new release of a popular movie. I will then go home, and type up a script, roughly approximating everything I can remember in the movie. I will slip it into the envelope, lick it, and say I wrote it, here's the proof.

Copyright your work . It's easy, and cheap.

<<<-- Originally posted by BillAngstrom :
Today, I will mail an empty, un-sealed 8X10 envelope to myself. It will arrive, properly dated and stamped by the post office. I will then set this envelope on a shelf with the rest of my collection of dated, stamped envelopes. Then, some time next year, I will go and watch a new release of a popular movie. I will then go home, and type up a script, roughly approximating everything I can remember in the movie. I will slip it into the envelope, lick it, and say I wrote it, here's the proof.

Copyright your work . It's easy, and cheap. -->>>

Bill,

That is a great bit of advice. I had never actually thought this process all the way through, but this makes total sense. Thanks for posting this very useful bit of information.

Paul,

Yeah, well being married to an Intellectual Property attorney forces you to think things all the way through...


Again and again....


and again...


Bill

I believe it's time to pay that guy a visit! Just tell him that you can do this the easy way or.... the hard way.

Bill,

Re: " regarding the so-called "Poor man's copyright" of mailing a copy to yourself. It's useless. It has no value in court. And here is the reason:...."

This is how it is done to prove it's your work. To copyright your work, all you do is write, your name, date and the word or symbol, copyright. Then you double register it, and leave the envelope or package sealed. This is how it is done, Bill. Trust me. I've done it 100 times, but then I write for publication.

Frank,
I believe you've done it a hundred times. I don't doubt that many people would accept it as valid. And if they do, then it's not a problem.

But it has no legal merit. And in the end, it's will take bona-fide registration that will allow you to get damages.

But then I have to deal with a copyright lawyer every day of my life. I understand copyright issues better than I would like. I understand the work is protected the moment it is fixed in a tangible expression. And I've been involved in lawsuits over things I've written. And yes, I've written for publication.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a copyright attorney.Or check out the January 2002 issue of Computer Videomaker Page 56 "Copy Protection" written by Mark Levy, a copyright attorney.

"The so-called poor mans copyright"-mailing a copy of your work to yourself to obtain a postage date - is not adequate to secure registration, and cannot be used in a court of law to support a case of copyright infringement.' (2nd paragraph)

I'll put my money on postage to the copyright office. I would hate to see someone lose a case, thinking all they needed was the poor man's copyright.

>I don't doubt that many people would accept it as valid.<

Nope. A laywer, a book printer, an agent, a writing teacher..., will all tell you different. Sorry. This is the way it's done here---and it's valid in court.

Frank, do you see what he is saying? If your dishonest, you mail the envelope without sealing it. Then you insert a faked article etc. and lick the envelope after the fact. Then claim you are the originator because here is the sealed (sealed after the fact), mailed, dated envelope that proves you are the copyright holder. If they accept it in Canada, fine. But US courts don't uphold the validity of a self mailed copy.

Jeff

I agree, but remember it was dylan that started this thread, and he is in canada.

Does Canada take the PMC as acceptable in court?

Just Curious.

Look it. I understand CANADIAN copyright law. My wife is is a lawyer! I work with copyright.

Do you know what "double registered" means? IT has to be sealed. If it's not, CANADA POST DOES THIS for you. Come on. A double registered letter is a legal, THE LEGAL, way of mailing, recognized 100% in any court of Canada.

PS: e-mail doesn't count.

OK, ok, let's accept that some things are different in Canadian law than in the US and move on.

Going back to the original problem. That fact that I own the rights to my material isn't even in question. I would think all the computer build files would be enough to prove it anyway in my case.

So anyone have any other suggestions as to what I can do besides taking the guy to court?

I doubt there's anything you can do besides take him to court. If the duplication was done on a large scale, then the police would certainly act. But..., there's no harm in contacting the police. You never know, they might act on it.

Frank,

Pretty funny, we're both married to copyright attorneys...!

Yeah, copyright law is national, (Even if violations can be international) and what works in Canada, will not hold up in a US court. And since Dylan is in Canada, his recourse will be different.

But Dylan should definately do something. At the very least, get someone to write a 'scarry' letter to this guy. I'll go back to my first suggestion, there is probably some sort of "lawyers for artists" organization that will do this for low/no charge.

For those of you married to attorneys, do you have an idea of what it would cost to draft a Cease & Desist letter? Seems to me that Dylan's first course of action should be a C&D, if it's affordable.

This story is very infuriating. I got into a thread with several rippers over at VCDHELPER.COM. While this site has some technical merit, the people over there don't see anything wrong with stealing material. There's a consensus in the USA that stealing from big corporations is OK...and even admirable. They don't get that there are individuals that suffer. A sad state of affairs. Sorry to hear you've been victimized, Dylan.

So what exactly is the process they use to make tapes un-copiable? You know, the ones that mess with the picture and audio when you try to copy the tape? Is it expensive?

Most, if not all, techniques can be hacked. It's like locking your house. If someone really WANTS to get in, there's always a way. If the intent is to stop trivial, everyday theft, like this experience, the cost of protection schemes are prohibitive.

The best policy is to include a watermark on every frame...inconspicuous....small, down in the lower corner, much as cable TV stations do to protect their broadcast material.

Chris,

I've learned my lesson, and will preface all my comments by the fact that I am speaking about life as it is in the U.S. ...

Legal costs can vary greatly. Depending on the depth of complexity, and the fees charged by the attorney. My wife works for a "Very Big Corporation", with international clients... I couldn't afford her if I had to pay her billing rate! Nevertheless, she does do work occasionally pro-bono, and works with the Texas Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts. As I said, Dylan should look for a similar organization up in Canada. (Frank, would certainly know if one exists, and what it's called.)

Yeah, it gripes me that people think it's cool to rip off your work. Like I said, I've gone through the 'battle' in court. And while it's true that some people can be "judgement proof" (that is, so poor they will never be able to pay the judgement against them.) It is necessary to fight the good fight, to show that you are serious, and willing to step up to the plate. This does act as a deterrent.

One way to handle these issues would be to form an organization for small independent video producers whereby said producers could pool their resources to i) persue legal action in copyright matters on behalf of its members (obviously not every case could be brought to court, but there would be a certain demonstration and deterent effect); ii) lobby state governments to pass laws protecting the product of small video producers.

If you can afford it, hire a PI and get evidence. You can go for much more than 450.00 in claims. Theres all sorts of expenses, plus the possibility of punitive damages, which can cost him everything he owns. If a PI can get evidence, a police raid can be justified too. A ruthless lawyer can take everything this guy has. He has commited 15 felonies, don't forget that. It's up to you how far you want to go.

On the other hand, if he has stopped making copies, well, your SOL. It's his word against yours. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Resist the urge to go over and slash his tires. You would probably get caught anyway.

Forgot to post a follow up to what happened.
I hired a couple of bikers that I met outside a bar and we got some baseball bats and pipes and......
:)

Actually, I talked to several people in the paintball community about how much damage he had done and made it quite clear that I was going to take legal action against him. Then a week or so after my last post on this thread I heard from someone else that he had stopped making copies and several of the people suspected of having these copies purchased the legal ones.
So looks like there isn't much to be done about it, but at least I gave someone a little scare.

Fear - The universal motivator.

Good to hear the felonious action has ended. OFten times, a nastygram or "putting out the word" is enough to make people understand you are serious.

Some quick points:

1. My wife is married to an intellectual property lawyer.

2. U.S. law only: Only federal courts have jurisdiction to hear copyright infringement actions. You can not sue for copyright infringement in small claims court.

3. The "mail it to yourself in a sealed envelope" technique is evidence (and admissible as such) of ownership of copyright. However, though it is admissible evidence, it will not be given very much weight for the reasons mentioned by others in this thread. A copyright registration is a prerequisit for filing an infringement action, and also is necessary to be eligible for an award of statutory damages. For infringements such as this, statutory damages are more important than actual damages, since the latter can be difficult to prove. Statutory damages for intentional infringement can be as high as $250,000. Though you can register, then sue, you will not be able to receive statutory damages for acts of infringement which occured before registration.

Registration is cheap, easy and can be done without a lawyer (just download the forms fromt the U.S. Copyright Office website).

4. IP lawyers usually charge by the hour. My rates are pretty high, so I doubt anyone would want me to do a cease-and-desist letter for them -- my clients are moderate-sized corporations. However, a cease-and-desist letter shouldn't take more than an hour or two, max, for a reasonably competent practioner to prepare (this includes the time spent talking with you to find out the details, etc.). Such letters include a demand for an accounting, i.e. a requirement that the recipient provide information on how many illegal copies were made, how much they were sold for, etc. Smart, small-time infringers will generally contact the lawyer and try to come to some arrangement.

5. Since the US joined the Berne Convention in 1979, it is no longer necessary to include a copyright notice on work in order for it to be protected. Video is protected the moment it is recorded to tape or a hard drive (the technical term is "fixed in a tangible medium"). Notice is helpful, though, because it makes it less likely that a defendant can claim innocent infringement.

6. It is virtually impossible to interest the US Justice department in prosecuting as criminal infringement the kind of activity discussed in this thread.