Chris: Now that the BMCC is shipping in limited quantities (we rec'ed ours 1/11/13) would it be time to start a place herein for these unique cameras?

I think so, too... I received mine last week and did a quick and difficult stress-test of ProRes on the BMC.

Brothers (an early BMC adversity test) on Vimeo

Nothing moving yet in Indonesia or Australia.

Finn, I noticed a huge amount of flare when you're shooting the windows in the background. Was this due somehow to the cold? A fogged up lens, perhaps? Or was this the camera itself?

I think so, too... I received mine last week and did a quick and difficult stress-test of ProRes on the BMC.

Brothers (an early BMC adversity test) on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/58058625)

That's fantastic Finn, I felt filthy and covered in muck just watching it! Certainly captured the mood!

It looks to me like the lens got fogged up towards the end of the clip, especially the last shot, but overall the IQ is a class above the output from any DSLR near this price.

It's already being done on BMD's own official forum, but if you guys really want one here, we can certainly make it happen...

Chris: the BMD forum has a very different flavour than DVInfo... some closet hostility there that I don't think would fly here... I've reported a couple of threads already with nothing being done... I for one would prefer to stay here and I only migrate there due to the sheer number of BMD issues I'm having...

Some time back, Chris, you indicated one would be opened once the camera is shipping. A lot of us that are on waiting lists still would like one opened so we can follow issues with those that are in possession of the camera already. Why would we go anywhere but here to get our information.

I would like to see a specific BMCC forum here on DVInfo, too.

i don't have one, didn't order one and probably won't, but i would also really like to see a BMCC forum! i want to follow this camera, and if it comes out with a bigger sensor and solves some other issues, i would love to jump on board...

Finn, I noticed a huge amount of flare when you're shooting the windows in the background. Was this due somehow to the cold? A fogged up lens, perhaps? Or was this the camera itself?

Yes, you are spot-on! It was -5˚F (-20˚C) outside, and inside, with all those breathing cows, it was quite moist. So I was battling condensation the whole time. You will see the effects in several of the shots, not just the back-lit ones.

Also, I am sorry that the video seems to be down at the moment... I'm not sure why. EDIT: It's fixed now.

Found this new BMCC video on Vimeo. I thought it was pretty impressive. He used the following lenses:
Sigma 8-16mm
Canon 24-70mm
Canon 70-200 IS II

Meet me in Big Sur on Vimeo

Nice video. Really shows the advantage of shooting RAW and that for landscapes a small sensor and deep focus are a great match.

The use of a fast shutter speed was interesting. It looked great on some shots by keeping things crisp. It wasn't so great on the camera moves as they looked a bit juddery. But that's up to the shooter, not an issue with the camera.

Found this new BMCC video on Vimeo. I thought it was pretty impressive.

He has some more beautiful videos on his vimeo account and it looks like he surely knows his way around color correcting. I"m also sure it's not a matter of just buying the camera, shoot in raw, do cc and expect to have the same results he has. There is some more bmc videos online that don't even look half as good meaning not everyone is capable to get the most from that camera. The magic seems to happen mostly in post and that seems to require experience. Eventhough his video's look colorwise amazing they are a bit over the top for me sometimes, some colors are so strong it doesn't look natural anymore but it shows how far you can push the color.

Exactly right, Noa. I certainly wouldn't want his high saturation look for a narrative film (unless the story revolved around the amazing colors in Thailand or something similar), but that he can pull such deep blues out of the ocean shows how much latitude is available. Try that with an 8-bit, h.264 cam and things would get ugly, quick.

The nice thing is that anybody with a DSLR can practice shooting RAW stills to practice their grading chops. If you find a look that you've gotta have but you just can't get there with h.264, a BMC (or RED) might just be the ticket.

On the other hand, if you can't get there with RAW stills, you're definitely not getting there with RAW video.

What impressed me the most is that the color is pushed that far without camera coding artifacts popping up.

Still, my concerns would be 1) lens availability, 2) deeper focus than my preferred style, 3) possible DR or ISO limitations. (The video seemed to clip some highlights, but that might have been done in post. This was all shot in bright light, so it doesn't show low-light range.) I also noted the fast shutter, but he might not have had an ND filter on hand.

I'm probably giving too many props here, but videos like that really make we want to go out and shoot. Then when I see that it's only 10 degrees outside, I get turned right back around.

,..... but that he can pull such deep blues out of the ocean shows how much latitude is available. Try that with an 8-bit, h.264 cam and things would get ugly, quick.


I think this is more than just grading. I think he is actually changing color within individual elements. DaVinci is supposed to be able to do that, right ?

Grading can include masks. I use Colorista II, which provides rectangular and oval power masks. Not sure if he was using more complex masking, but it's still valid. Even with RAW stills and masking, it can be tough to pull that much blue out of the ocean without falling apart.

My experience with most shoots I have had of the Pacific Ocean is that it is more green than blue. Thats what leads me to believe he actually had to change color in most of the surf shots. Obviously that a just a bit of a move along the color wheel but its still a big change. I have to believe eht same was done with the golden hues in some of the shots.

The anatomy of color tweaks aside, this is a lovely piece. Like all really good photography, it is interpretive.
I've shot a lot of stuff up in that area and appreciate the fact that he shows us not just how it looks, but how it "feels". Reminds me of a 4x5 "chrome" look from back in the day.
Well done.

Ken

I don't have a problem with the editorial changes, ie., changing the feel by color change. Its done all the time in narrative film. And I am not knocking the camera. I've got one on order. But this film sparkles because of heavy post treatment. I think the OP film was not treated very much in post.

But this film sparkles because of heavy post treatment.

Maybe this guy works for Black magic and is a very experienced colorist but he doesn't tell :) I see everyone getting the camera now and exactly the same lenses as he has to find out they can't get anywhere near his results.
I will be looking out as more videos start to roll out and see what other's can achieve, I just bhought another camera but for the price of the bmc, and when it finally is easily available, I don't see a reason why not to get one, in a year or so.

I think this is more than just grading. I think he is actually changing color within individual elements. DaVinci is supposed to be able to do that, right ?

I do it a lot in FCPX with pieces similar to this.
We do a lot of outdoor scenes that depend on the right conditions that just don't exist in day to day production.
Moving masks are really simple and powerful in X for this...from creating sunsets to blue skies, colorful forests etc.
It's another reason I really like shooting everything flat and creating the finished look in post.

And yes, the original OP and the latter example are simply night and day regarding the grading techniques and really don't say anything about the BMC, other than it has a good negative to work from.

...other than it has a good negative to work from.

And that's really the point of this camera, isn't it? It's not ideal as far as lenses, DOF, and ergonomics, but if we can pull a good negative for grading, that can make it worthwhile.

I'd love to use this camera for a gritty western. Hard hitting westerns are best with deep focus, IMO, (as compared to a rustic, romantic western.) And to be able to push everything into the burnt orange corner while preserving realistic (but toned) sky, clouds, and water would be cool. It would also be great for an urban gang story where you want gritty streets, yet bright, saturated graffiti.

I'm of two minds when it comes to horror. I think I prefer shallow DOF for horror in order to hide things to add mystery. That said, being able to push the silver/green look while retaining red blood and lips is the way to go. Scarlet/Epic might be the better choice in that you also get shallow DOF and more frame rate options. But if the story is best told in deep focus, the BMC looks to be a great budget solution.

Then again, I just did a shoot with the good-old 5D2 and VAF filter, using gels to set the tones and enough light to keep the ISO in range. The footage looks great. When you can control the light, costumes, make up, and art direction, RAW isn't such a big deal. :)

He has some more beautiful videos on his vimeo account and it looks like he surely knows his way around color correcting. I"m also sure it's not a matter of just buying the camera, shoot in raw, do cc and expect to have the same results he has. There is some more bmc videos online that don't even look half as good meaning not everyone is capable to get the most from that camera. The magic seems to happen mostly in post and that seems to require experience. Eventhough his video's look colorwise amazing they are a bit over the top for me sometimes, some colors are so strong it doesn't look natural anymore but it shows how far you can push the color.

+1

Thought I was watching Avatar for a second ...

I prefer a natural representation rather than making a video look so unrealistic.

I thing the whole point of the Big Sur grading was to demonstrate how far you can go without the BMCC raw image falling apart. It was not to be reviewed as to what individual's personal tastes of the piece was (which I personally found beautiful).

Grading decisions and artistic visions can be all over the place for any given project and is what a director/colorist collaboration is all about. But that is not what is going on here... it is showing the capability to BMCC raw/Resolve workflow. As someone coming from tweaking 8 bit material, I am amazed at this new capacity.

Now back to the OP ... think we can agree that it is time for a true forum for this camera. While I appreciate that BM has it's own, many of us value the tremendous expertise and help the DV Info folks provide.

Even when you want a "natural" representation, having all that color information can be quite helpful. Say you film a scene as the light and weather change - especially in a tough environment like on snow. You might grade for a "natural" look, yet still need to mask to adjust the snow, skin tones, and jeans to look real and consistent, cut by cut.

This isn't such a big deal under controlled lights, but on-location, even natural productions can benefit from RAW.

not to needlessly, and a bit savagely, i might add, beat a dead horse, but there are a few things i despise about this camera.

Sensor size - I am used to HDSLR's and glad im done with HDV with 35mm adapters for shallow DOF shots. Crop sensors are bad enough, 16mm DOF is not shallow enough for me.

Frame rates - WAY too limited, i prefer to shoot at 48P or 60P for slow mo, not use software. I film auto events, and Twixtor sometimes 'drags' flying debris or smears colors when a car or bike whips a corner.

Touch screen controls - i like buttons, not a smeared LCD. 800x480 at 5" is a little on the low ppi side (186), i just bought a Lilliput 7" with 213 ppi for $330, and its LED IPS backlit.

Integrated battery - granted there is an optional external mount and obviously DC, but why not a V or Bauer mount, or battery plates instead?

Integrated speaker and mic - these i could do without. And 1/4" inputs? why not standard XLR's?

HD-SDI video out - an additional HDMI out would do wonders here; i dont have, nor intend to dish out the cash for an HD-SDI 720P monitor, not when i can get two very nicely featured HDMI 720P monitors for less than that.

12-bit RAW, 13 stops of DR, and mount choices look great though; its mostly the sensor size that kills it for me. Ill keep shooting with cheap T2i's, and maybe wait for the Kinefinity S35 Mini.

Hopefully the new metabones speedbooster will render all issues of sensor size on MFT cameras moot. :)

its mostly the sensor size that kills it for me. Ill keep shooting with cheap T2i's, and maybe wait for the Kinefinity S35 Mini.

Just wondering, do you have the bmc and have you shot any footage with it? Not so sure this is the right camera to shoot fast action auto events with in raw though.

no, i do not have one, i would like to play with some footage though when i return.

You can shoot auto events with practically any camera; back out and zoom in so you dont have to whip pan, which would introduce CMOS issues. I've used the T2i's for interior/ride-a-long cams as well as following the action from a distance with a zoom lens while focusing.

Normally i photograph from right on the track; usually drifting or rallying competitions as they are challenging and get me right in the action. I also sometimes drive my track/sunday car in some of the events.

Some old shots from Nikon D300 and D50, colors are way overprocessed as thats what client (magazine) wanted. I shot with both at the same time, D300 left handed prefocused with a remote trigger and custom made left handed bracket assembly, D50 in my right hand. TONS of fun. I was shooting at 18mm on crop sensors; the cars were 10-15 feet away, sliding at 35-55mph.

I guess it's still a problem since it's not really shipping yet.

. It seems like a few of these are arriving now and are being put to use. I'd still like to see some updates on the m43 version. Once these start shipping, I might be interested, probably Summer is my guess.

I'm going to shock everybody here or maybe sound like an idiot, but I truly hated that footage. So saturated, over the top. We've never seen film footage like that, and frankly some bad soap operas I've seen shot in Latin America can't come close to being that saturated. So what's the deal with that shooter? Does he thinks more is always better?
It's called Black Magic Cinema Camera.
Did he see the "Cinema" in the name?
If he had any talent, what he should done would have been to make his footage as close as film as he could, instead of playing with mascs and saturation.
Not impressed at all. I hope I see somebody's footage soon.

Sorry about all the negativity, but I like subtle stuff.
L.

You didn’t shock me Larry though the word hate is perhaps a bit strong, in my opinion, but understandable I have to admit. And you certainly don’t sound like an idiot; far from it. But you know, even as his treatment is not to our liking we, in all fairness, must concede ‘artistic choice’ is the shooter’s prerogative. So my response is to say that his approach, his treatment, his artistic choice is just not my cup of tea.

I believe the camera is a great tool and I have viewed some nice footage shot with it. I would like to see more. In due course I might acquire one, perhaps...

I'm going to shock everybody here or maybe sound like an idiot, but I truly hated that footage. So saturated, over the top. We've never seen film footage like that, and frankly some bad soap operas I've seen shot in Latin America can't come close to being that saturated. So what's the deal with that shooter? Does he thinks more is always better?
It's called Black Magic Cinema Camera.
Did he see the "Cinema" in the name?

Considering the "average" film these days has WAY over the top pseudo bleach bypass and the obligatory Magic Bullet Preset blue and orange colour grade on it, I'm happy to see someone willing to push in the other direction.

What I saw was something that looked like "epic" BBC documentary or the photos in a National Geographic magazine come to life.

Cinematic? The content certainly was. A little like a scaled down Baraka or Samsara.

I'm not a fan boy but I appreciate SEEING colour for a change.

Just my opinion.

I know of someone who calls the recent past the Red Era, in terms of how things look on TV, music vids and ads and so on: all foggy mids and dusky hues. We were speculating that it's not even all that intentional a lot of the time. It's a matter of people not having the time and/or skill to really pull much else out of the flat raw (finding during the grade it wasn't exposed as well as they'd like, but this look works etc). Which is fine. I like it. I'd certainly do no better. But its interesting seeing periods defined by their technology (film stocks and processes certainly produced their own looks and fashions too, of course)
Part of the argument for me was the Wallander series; The first few were shot by Antony Dodd Mantle, who is quite good with digital and daring with colour. Once he left you can see the series fall into a sort of more conservative 'Red look'.

In any case, as this stuff trickles down and different cameras get into the mix we should see more variety

Interesting comments, I must admit.
Sure, i'll take that, the guy has different tastes than mine.

Yes, I would support a forum here. The more footage I view the closer I am to placing an order. I reckon perhaps $5000.00 US by the time I get it functional and for the stunning image quality I'm seeing that's not at all out of the way. If anyone has a better suggestion I'm all ears...

Here's Grant's update posted at Facebook:

Blackmagic Cinema Camera
January 14

Hi,

Wanted to send out a quick update on camera shipments. The production lines have been up and running with sensors coming in. We have been sending out regular shipments of EF model cameras each week to all of our offices around the world, and each week we are getting cameras out at a faster rate. We are still not at full volume shipping though, because sensors are not quite getting to us at a pace that I could say was full volume. But each day I am seeing the volume get better from the sensor company. I am happy with the quality of the sensors.

For the MFT model, we want to get through some more of the EF orders before I give a date on when we will start getting the MFT orders out. They are ready to go, but we need to get through most of the early EF pre-orders first.

I have been blown away seeing all the footage coming from people with their cameras around the world. It's been very exciting to watch the camera doing such fantastic creative work!


Regards,

Grant
Blackmagic Design:

Shane Hurlbut ASC, is putting together a test/shootout.
The cameras are:
Sony F65
Sony F5
Arri Alexa
Red Epic
Canon 1DC
Canon C500
Black Magic
GoPro Hero 3
35mm Film

Exciting to watch how this shootout comes out. They said they will start posting results from the black magic camera first in the coming weeks.

Link to his blog:

Digital Cinematography vs Film: Tides are Turning | Hurlbut Visuals (http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2013/02/digital-cinematography/)

Love the shot of the GoPro mounted on a oconnor head! LOL!

Hi,

I've now had my Blackmagic cinema cam delivered and would definitely support a forum here.

Saraswati Films | Movies | Krishna - History or Myth (http://www.saraswatifilms.org/movies.php)

Thank you Manish, and others -- we'll have the forum then. Will advise shortly. Much appreciated,

Thanks Chris for the upcoming forum for the BMCC here.
The expertise and insights of the folks that frequent this community are valued much.
From my perception, they also appear to tend toward the more positive and helpful versus the negative.

Agreed. It's weird being on a forum that is not just filled with trash talkers.

For all, supplier I ordered from says they are now seeing signs of new shipments coming soon. It appears the issues at Black Magic are getting worked out at last.

they have over 8800 units on Backorder

Just curious where you found that number Scott?

That Andrew Julian video is nothing short of brilliant. Great to see you can grade the footage to the degree he did without adverse consequences. I've shot from Big Sur to Carmel several times and the water is often the color shown in that video so I doubt it's as enhanced as some think.

they have over 8800 units on Backorder
I have my doubts on that number.....especially knowing how many people that I know that cancelled their orders for various reasons over the last few months......but I could be mistaken.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com