To anyone on the ground at CES 2013 , is there any new NX cams being demo'd to get excited about ?

I have seen some news items about consumer (form factor) cameras.

4K is a huge theme this year .... dare to dream a new NX cam might offer this (for those of us who like bleeding edge)

Thanks in advance.

Well, there is a new machine very very similar to NX5:

Sony's 4K Handycam and HXR-IFR5 4K Interface Unit prototypes eyes-on (http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/sonys-4k-handycam-and-hxr-ifr5-4k-interface-unit-prototypes-eye/)

It's a prototype, a mock-up with a Handycam, 4K and XAVC logos (????).
In fact, it's seems an AX2000 (colors) with a fan exhaust (more heat to disipate?) near the audio knobs.

This is the future NX5? Same shape, new chips. We have to wait for more info, but if the shape and optics are the same we can expect a 1/3 CMOS... with 4K sensor!!!! (native?).

I'd expect a single chip cam instead of 3 chips. But using XAVC may mean they might have to use XQD cards in lieu of SxS. 300Mbps is pushing it for MS Duo and SDXC.

I'd expect a single chip cam instead of 3 chips. But using XAVC may mean they might have to use XQD cards in lieu of SxS. 300Mbps is pushing it for MS Duo and SDXC.
I highly doubt we'll see 300Mbps in a prosumer though. I'd expect 100Mbps (maybe alittle bit more) long Gop 4:2:0 in that model. That should still be ok for Class 10 U1 cards. Then again it's Sony. So XQQD may still be the media.

The spec for XAVC so far says 300Mbps for 30p 4K. Cards just aren't fast enough yet besides XQD.

It clearly says on the camera it will use XAVC.

The spec for XAVC so far says 300Mbps for 30p 4K. Cards just aren't fast enough yet besides XQD.

It clearly says on the camera it will use XAVC.Yes that's XAVC 300mbps 4:2:2 (INTRA-FRAME) 10-bit that is in the Sony F55. It's also 240Mbps at 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 at 24P. In the specs 4K Long Gop also is 8bit 4:2:0. I'd expect sony to implement long Gop in this particular cam. That's where I'm guessing just over 100Mbps which can still be recorded to SD Card Class 10 U1.

Remember that XAVC is MXF. MXF in the Sony world usually means a UDF file system. SD cards cannot be formatted in UDF. (as proved by the PMW-200)

The XAVC codec from the sony press release "MXF wrapping format can be used " Sony introduces new XAVC recording format to accelerate 4K development in the professional and consumer markets : Sony Professional (http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/broadcast-xavc-codec-1012)
According to that, I believe 4:2:2 and higher will be in a MXF wrapper as you stated. 4:2:0 Long GOP should not have to have MXF as a wrapper. In April we will hopefully get the info about this new cam.

The F55 records XAVC 4K to SxS so I'm betting this will also use SxS and not XQD.

Aren't the Handycams consumer models? Why would they make consumer cams that need professional SxS cards?

Because as the future becomes the present, there likely will not be "consumer" cameras per se... Already it's clear Sony has drasticlly cut back their Cybershot and Handycam lineups, and leaned towards lower $ price points to try to meet what market may remain, post smart phone/tablet.

On the other end of the spectrum, they are releasing "enthusiast" models at high prices (at least in the still camera department) - RX1, RX100.

Look at what Sony and the other two "big" camcorder makers (Cannon and Panasonic) announced this year - Sony released exactly ONE "top end" consumer camera, as opposed to the typical multiple versions/variations, and looks like a grand total of 4-5 camcorders, while "retiring" closer to 15 models - the Cybershot line showed similar "consolidation", with NOT ONE "higher end" model announced (didn't see ANY with 60p video this year, after several years of each model line having one or more at the "top")! And they have been doing discounting to move out the higher end 2012 models...


The market is not what it was - the AVERAGE consumer is NOT buying a dedicated video camera or dedicated still camera, because they have a PHONE (or perhaps a tablet) that also does those "functions" (Sony is a BIG supplier of higher end imaging modules for cell phones)... AND if they DO buy a quality image capture device, the odds that it will be "dual purpose" or at least have both photo and video capability are quite high.

The DSLR (DSLT in Sony's case) has cut into the camcorder market too, for all the "wannabe filmmakers" who think that razor thin DoF is desirable to make them into "cinematographers".- again, the "tools" have changed, as has the market.

I'm not saying that the last "consumer" camera has been sold (yet), but the writing is on the wall - and in order to recoup R&D costs, manufacturers will likely have no choice but to release at least some "pro" features in "enthusiast" models to generate enough sales volume.

4K IS the next "thing", but it will require a jump in processing and storage, which as usually happens will need to "catch up".

Aren't the Handycams consumer models? Why would they make consumer cams that need professional SxS cards?

Some are prosumer models missing a few features but otherwise identical to their pro counterparts, like the FX1, FX7, and AX2000. They're not really meant for consumers, just frugal pros or wannabes.

Consumer, prosumer, professional---the big names will gravitate to the category with the highest profit margins.

According to this report, the prototype's dual media slots look too small for SxS cards. They're thinking XQD cards, which can handle 4K video.


Sony 4K Camcorder Unveiled at CES 2013 (http://www.photographybay.com/2013/01/10/sony-4k-camcorder-unveiled-at-ces-2013/?awt_l=7RSz6&awt_m=K5uhCBALPv62xu)


Lots of nice pics of the camera, too.

Looks remarkably like my NX5U !!! Change the dual SD/Memorycard slots . There was no picture to show what the side of the camera where the FMU128 goes on the NX5U to see if there is another recording medium like a new faster version of the FMU128.

Ron Evans

There was no picture to show what the side of the camera where the FMU128 goes on the NX5U to see if there is another recording medium like a new faster version of the FMU128.

Looks like the mockup is missing the FMU.

http://www.photographybay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Sony-XAVC-4K-Camcorder-4.jpg

Most likely because this is the prosumer model, so just like the AX2000 it's missing the FMU that it's sister NX5 has.

I think we need to see a more side view picture because with the cover plate that comes with the NX5U it doesn't look too different to the picture. You are correct though that the AX2000 does not have the connector cover plate like the NX5U. I just thought that the FMU connection may give an opportunity for a fast memory device based on the FMU128. I will watch with interest.

Ron Evans

What is the appeal of a 4K video camera at the consumer level? --they have nothing to play the output on that is affordable.

What is the appeal of a 4K video camera at the consumer level? --they have nothing to play the output on that is affordable.

In my case, it's similar to me once owning a Ninja 1000 motorcycle. I sure couldn't use its full potential on the street, but it was nice to know it was there if I needed it.

Right now it might be impractical to shoot 4K, but think about what the images would look like even down converted to 1080.
Some people like good dynamic range, latitude, etc. I prefer sharp, crisp, crystal clear images. It'd be nice to have both, but I have a limited budget.

What is the appeal of a 4K video camera at the consumer level? --they have nothing to play the output on that is affordable.

For me it may be the same as when I first got my FX1. I used the HDV and cropped a normal DV file which allowed about a 2:1 zoom and pan over the image. Shot a concert with FX1 fixed mainly full stage and edit looked like a 4 camera shoot !!! With 4K one could do the same thing and extract a 1920x1080 image. Could be handy !!!

Ron Evans

Ron, Glenn, yes that is what I want one form to downconvert to 1080, and then zoom in and pan around, and crop without losing resolution. But that is prosumer fun. I just hope Sony doesn't dumb it down too much thinking they are targeting consumers.

Folks

Thanks for responding to my original post ... I am super excited about 4k in a nx5 form factor ...

Regarding the memory, if storage is to XQD card, then I assume the 64gb card for 4K would be the minimum practical size
The price for this card is 399.00 right now on B&H .. So 800.00 for storage on top of the price of the cam