Hi All - I'd like to maybe start using DSLR for certain parts of the wedding day (Prep/Couple's photoshoot etc) and I'm completely new to it.

As I'm upgrading my standard video cameras as a priority early next year, I don't have a huge budget for a new DSLR but I do have a 5D Mk1 so would like to still be able to use my 'L' series EF lenses.

A 5D MkIII is a little out of my budget but a MkII would be ok or what about the 7D? APS size sensor but I think I can still use my lenses.

Also what rig would you recommend to make it more like a normal video camera to handle? Also I'm a big fan of the flipout screens on my Sony video cameras so an external monitor will be a must.

Some tips would be great - thanks

I would look at the T3i or T4i same sensor as the 7D Just takes less pictures per second.

Hi - I should add the the camera I choose would also double as a worthy emergency stand-in for my 5D for stills work. So also will have to use my existing EF lenses

For what it's worth, I think most wedding DSLR people don't use them shoulder mounted! It's usually tripod, monopod, jib, slider, steadicam.

Re what gear, I think the main question is budget.

Camera choice -- nothing wrong with pretty much any DSLR camera, and you can use full frame lenses on crop sensor. But your investment in glass might bias you towards Canon. In this case, I think if you get a used MkII, you won't regret it. Will give you better light sensitivity than a 7D, shallower depth of field, and will overheat less. But no high frame rates. And no flip screen.

Or, for a little more money, wait till the 6D comes out. Might be the best option if you want something under a MkIII.

Rig choice -- there's a bewildering array of choice. Can't really help you here. Top brands probably include Letus Master Cinema series, Edelkrone Modula rigs, Zacuto, Redrock. Work out a budget, avoid anything Indian, and I think you can't go too far wrong.

Monitor -- maybe Small HD's new OLED monitor is the best. But are you really after a monitor, or an EVF? Zacuto EVF seems popular, works (apart from occasional dodgy cable) and is cheap as these things go. Cineroid EVF is probably better, but pricier.

Thanks Adrian - regarding a rig, my cams (soon to be retired) are Z1/FX1 and I rarely shoot from eye-level. So I was not looking at the shoulder mount, but something more like the cam caddie scorpion that I can pick up quickly and attach accessories to.

The 6D seems to be not much less price than the MkIII at the moment.

What are the benefits of the MkIII over the MkII? I've read moiré is a real problem with the MkII

Pete

TBH moire is not a really big problem on the 5D2. It happens sometimes but for wedding videos generally I think that we can live with it. We are not producing work for broadcast & our clients are pretty forgiving of moire anyway as they see it on newsreader's stripy shirts on TV.

None of the people that I know shooting weddings with DSLRs regularly use a rig. A monopod is the standard means of stabilisation.

While the 7D is a better stills camera it is not a good choice for video as it is much more expensive than the 600D/650D while the video quality is identical.

Currently the 6D is a bit of an unknown quality. The video is apparently no better than the 5D2 but it does have some other advantages e.g. video recording limit is 29min 59sec instead of around 12 minutes. It is the newer model but doesn't have the same build quality & weather proofing of the 5D2.

The 5D3 if you can afford the extra money is to my mind well worth it. It has outstanding low light capability (at least two stops better than the 5D2) also has the 29min 59sec recording limit & has a total lack of moire & aliasing. There are a whole load of other little features that all add up (locking Mode dial) dual card slots gives choice of Compact Flash or SD, headphone socket etc etc). The 5D3 is also a vastly better stills camera than the 5D2 with of course the low light performance but also fast reliable AF plus the ability to shoot to both memory cards at once for maximum reliability.

Hi Nigel - I was thinking of using a DSLR more for handheld work (sticking with trad video cameras for ceremony/speeches) so not sure about using a monopod (I'm currently having a play with a borrowed 600D) - how do you deal with rack focus shots - adjust on the barrel of the lens? even after a few days practice it still introduces too much movement for me.

The downside of the rigs I've been looking at is that they look large and cumbersome - as a single shooter I don't need to be weighed down with something that looks like it comes from the set of a transformers movie :)

I like the look of the scorpion as I'm very much used to holding my Sony cams by the top handle. I suppose there should be no real difference between adjusting for focus on my sony lens than the DSLR but somehow it seems 'shakier' Maybe the canon lens has a 'looser' focus ring or the sony has better stabilisation - I'm not sure.

Having said all that I love the quality of footage from the DSLR and it's going to add to my production values - so I will be investing for next season

Get this and it will save you a lot of regrets down the road:

Manfrotto Fluid Video Monopod W/Head 561BHDV-1 B&H Photo Video


It's not even a matter of preference. If there's one piece of equipment that any half-decent dslr shooter in the industry would have in their kit, it would be it.

Forget about handheld with a DSLR except with a very wide lens & where you can use some extra support like bracing with the camera neck strap. When I am shooting my 5D3 is either on a ultra lightweight tripod, a monopod, slider or Steadicam. I will jump in the middle of the dancing with a 16-35mm or 14mm & brace the camera against my body but only get away with that because the lens is so wide & there is a lot of jostling & other movement going on so camera shake isn't apparent.

Hi Long - I already own the Manfrotto monopod - an essential piece of kit!

I suppose It now boils down to the question of 'is the 5DMkIII worth the extra £1K or so, over the MkII/7D?'

Pete

I would try not to be influenced by my ownership of Canon glass and look outside of the Canon dSLR range for video. The Panasonic GH3 comes to mind.

Its well worth spending some quality time exploring cheesycam.com for affordable solutions that work:

CheesyCam DIY Video and Photography Projects (http://cheesycam.com/)

I use a lightweight carbon fibre monopod that collapses really small, the Gitzo GM5561T, but at almost £300 its not everyones 1st choice:

Gitzo GM5561T Mountaineer Monopod - Carbon Fibre (http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/carbon_fibre/gitzo_gm5561t_mountaineer_monopod/18794_p.html)

I often use a Manfrotto 701 head on it and this enables you to stabilise it against your shoulder using the head's arm and with the monopod base against your waist - so you don't need to have the monopod extended to ground level and that is a big plus in confined spaces like getting ready.

I don't really see the point of feet on monopods, its not as if you can leave the rig standing unattended. For that you can use a small Cheetah lightstand which has legs which fold up on lifting and spread when placed down - a much neater solution. Use the C8:

https://www.cheetahstand.com/category-s/1862.htm

The C12 is much heavier but is man enough to be a full-on tripod replacement.

However it is very hard indeed to get more than a few seconds using a monopod without movement becoming obvious. You see movement all day every day in TV shows though so it does have acceptable limits.

This VF-3 viewfinder is very well made and I use it in preference to my early Zacuto unless I want to alternate between video and stills

VF-3 Universal LCD View Finder by Carry Speed | Carry Speed Store (http://www.carryspeed.com/products/lcd-view-finder)

This GB-2 Gearbox cage also works great. You can extend the verticals using standard spigots and adapters such as those from Manfrotto:

GearBox GB-2 - Video Accessory Cage w/ 15mm Rod Adapter by PNC | Photography and Cinema - Store (http://www.photographyandcinema.com/products/gearbox-gb-2-video-accessory-cage-w-15mm-rod-adapter)

If you do go the shoulder rig route the PR-1 is a very solid well thought out piece of kit and affordable:

PR-1 Prime Video Shoulder Rig Kit by PNC | Photography and Cinema - Store (http://www.photographyandcinema.com/products/prime-video-rig-kit)

As to whether the 5DII or III is the best ..... in my opinion the III is an incremental improvement not revolutionary. Much depends on how you use them. I would say the focusing improvement it totally irrelevant; I use the centre focusing point then recompose rather than use the outer points - the centre is far more sensitive than the outer ones. Plus I use the * back button to focus NOT the shutter button - this enables you to lock focus at any point you want without locking anything else. The one biggie would be the longer record time on the III, but its still only 30 minutes and thats not long enough for unattended in a church ceremony; not that that matters to you personally as you plan to use video cams at that point anyway.

Pete

Thanks for that comprehensive reply Pete! I haven't come across the Gearbox Cage - it seems it will do the job better for me than the Cam Caddie Scorpion. I find myself filming from a variety of angles - very rarely from eye-level so will be wanting to have a small monitor (currently looking at a Marshall) mounted. I like the side grips - they'll be better for hand held work than the top handle of the scorpion.

I like my 561BHDV for during the ceremony but for a DSLR I might also look at the Manfrotto Neotec - I've seen a few photographers use them and they're extremely quick to adjust for height - anything that gets my shot framed quickly is a friend of mine!

Pete

Hi Peter,

When shooting DSLR forget about most of how you operate with a regular camera. There is absolutely no way you should ever shoot handheld. You would need a gunstock type rig at a minimum. Our main goto is a Monopod, occasionally a Steadicam and then tripod for ceremony and speeches. We shoot only DSLR now.

We use 5DMK2 and 7D and love them both. The MK3 doesnt have enough to tempt us to pony up.

The beauty of DSLR is its ultra small form factor. Adding an external monitor can be a bit cumbersome for weddings and I would just recommend getting down on your knees. Its the reason I dont wear a fancy suit ;)

The 7D is a great camera and I personally enjoy the crop as I tend to be down the back of the church while Julie is up front on the 5DMK2.

I know a few people who switched from the traditional camera to DSLR and all of them had to adapt their style of shooting to accomodate the DSLR quirks. Not in a bad way though, for many it made them stop bad habbits like shooting handheld when the situation required a little more stability.

Have a look at our education blog. We have some great tips on DSLR shooting, technical write ups for some of our shoots and other bits and pieces. The Society Of Movement | Minty Slippers (http://www.mintyslippers.com/category/the-society-of-movement/)

I don't really see the point of feet on monopods, its not as if you can leave the rig standing unattended.The feet are not intended for supporting the monopod unattended. On the Manfrotto 561BHDV linked to above there is a nice little joint that allows you to do smooth panning. It is a feature that is missing from the Manfrotto Neotec that in other ways is better because it can be quickly adjusted with a trigger. The little foot on the Neotec is for you to put your foot on while pulling the tubes up or down to get the desired height.

If you want to stay in the Canon camp all canon dslr's up to the (and including the) 5dII will give you moire and aliasing, there are ways to work around that but if you don't want to do that get the 5DIII. If you don't have the budget for the mark 3 but still want full frame get the 6d as it can handle higher iso better then the mark 2 but still shows moire and aliasing and if you don't care about full frame and want to have 2 dslr's for the price of one 7D get a pair of T4i's, they are not as waterproof or solid as a 7d but if you are careful about your material they last just as long.

I still use two t2I's and while I don't like the moire and aliasing and their limited resolution they have been a good investment. I have one constantly on the steadicam and one on the tripod or monopod.

It's funny how the only people who don't seem to reckon that the advantages of the 5D3 are worth it are those who don't own one. Every 5D2 owner that I know who has upgraded to a 5D3 agrees with me that the 5D3 is worth every extra penny. The 2+ extra stops of low light performance alone justify it for me as it means that you can stop down in low light maintaining a reasonable DoF rather than having to struggle keeping it in focus at F/1.4. The price here in the UK from Canon dealers just dropped to £2399 for body only while we paid £2999 for ours back in March. It's available as a grey import for just £1895 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Body (http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body-961-p.asp) All prices include 20% VAT (sales tax)

The 2+ extra stops of low light performance alone justify it

And don't forget about the moire and aliasing issue the mark III hardly suffers from, no moire is in my opinion a big improvement over any lower end canon dslr, Many also say that it's ok and you can work around it but I don't find it ok but have to work around it :) Moire can ruin your image considerably, I only wish the mark III could do 50P.

You're talking me into it Nigel - I can Ebay one of my MkI bodies to help fund it :)

Have you bought from HDEW Cameras before? It used to be that grey imports had no warranty (or so I perceived) but HDEW are including 3 years so it all sounds good

Anyway I'm going to order it - It's going to be a sizable shift in technique for me but I've a couple of all day weddings coming up so will be able to practice in the 'lull' moments.

Pete

Well I've just ordered that - happy Xmas to me!!!

Nigel can you recommend a viewfinder - Peter pointed me to the VF-3 which looks like it'll do the trick but I can't seem to find a UK supplier.

Pete

I bought my first 5D2 from HDEW nearly four years ago. Unlike other companies that purport to be in the UK but actually ship from overseas they are a UK based operation who even have an office in Surrey where you can I believe collect from. Check the About US on their website. I had no problems registering my camera with Canon for CPN. I don't know what small print there might be on a 3 year warranty from HDEW so it would be a nice to have rather than something to rely on.

I have been using my 5D3s without a loupe as the only one that I know fits well is the Zacuto & that costs about 10x the cost of the cheap'n'cheerful £30 plastic job that I have been using on the 5D2 that unfortunately will not fit the 5D3 because of the larger screen & smaller surround.

Peter, my VF-3 shipped from abroad but it took well under a week to turn up.

I think Zacuto have or will have a 5DIII convertor available so that you can use their viewfinder with the III.

But really the only advantage of the Z compared to the VF-3, and at the same time its biggest failing, is that it clips to the screen and is therefore easily dislodged (unless you also buy the extra paraphernalia at Z's prices. This makes it easy to switch to shooting stills but is a real pain otherwise. I have mine on a lanyard so as not to accidentally drop it.

The VF-3 is altogether more like a tank but you cannot quickly take the whole thing off. It does of course aid stability because it is an extra point of contact with your body when hand held to the eye - so its good with the short monopod and 701 head that I mentioned earlier.

Battery grips add another layer of complexity. I have them because I struggled at first with the 5 Series compared with my 1 Series bodies which of course have grips built in. The VF-3 works best without a grip in my case because I also like to have Manfrotto quick release plates on everything and these with a grip add too much height for the adjustable VF-3 to cope with.

BTW the Manfrotto 577 quick release sliding plate assemblies are interchangeable with the Calumet version, the latter being cheaper and in my view better because the quick tightening levers can be pulled out and spun to the ideal position.

Pete

BTW the Manfrotto 577 quick release sliding plate assemblies are interchangeable with the Calumet version, the latter being cheaper and in my view better because the quick tightening levers can be pulled out and spun to the ideal position.Just like the Manfrotto QR plates then:-).

A couple more loupes that I haven't actually used but are supposed to fit the 5D3. There is apparently a new LCDVF from Kinotehnik which not only fits the 5D3 but also has a dioptre adjustment if you need lens correction for your eye sight. The previous LCDVF model that did not have a dioptre adjustment are exceedingly well made with superb optics but unusable by me with or without glasses or contact lenses because of the lack of dioptre adjustment. There is a copy of the Zacuto VF called the Seagull at a greatly reduced price that can use the same attachments as the genuine Z-finder i.e. gorilla plate & frame or adhesive frame.

Thanks for your advice guys - the MkIII and VF-3 are on their way - just a quick questions about focus while flying - I normally use my Sony HVF-A1E on my Merlin and let the autofocus do it's work, but I'm guessing with the 5D I'll have to make sure I have a good DOF and maintain a consistent distance from my subject?

Pete

yes, that's the secret and make sure the lens is not wide open, unless shallow dof is what you are trying to achieve but then maintaining focus will be very tricky.

I currently use Duracell 600X 32GB CF cards for my Datavideo DN-60 Data recorder without any issues - think these will be ok for the 5D?

I don't think they will fit, the 5D uses larger cf cards while the dn60 uses these small sdhc cards I think.

Hi Noa - no the DN-60 uses the large Compact Flash cards - I'm just wondering if the 600X will be fast enough - I don't see why not

ah ok, didn't know that, for my t2i I know I need at least class 10 and 30mb/s cards, but I prefer minimum 45mb/s cards as with the 30 mb/s cards I get an occasional buffer sign. I also only use Sandisc cards.

Test show they are 47 mb/s write speed so should be ok :)

i agree that DSLR video handheld can be painful.

living in Mali, i have access to great leather workers at a great price, so i designed this wide utility belt that i find really handy for run and gun. the center pocket supports a monopod or the top section of my velbon sherpa tripod with fluid head, and with the neck strap it is super steady and allows me a free hand for zoom/focus/variable ND exposure, and i can get pretty creative with angles/tilt/pan. the other pockets have quick access to batteries and memory cards, and the flat pocket is for filters/lens caps. the big pocket holds a blower and cloth (Mali is DUSTY!!) and when shooting photos holds a flash. i'm having another made so i can have quick access to the blower for photography also.

i find this system really fast to set up, ultra mobile, steady, saves back strain, and the quick access to accessories is invaluable. i don't shoot weddings, but i think this would probably work really well for them.

the one downside, if you can deal with it, is that you look like a raging geek...

The 5D3 & the 5D2 before it are very forgiving with CF cards. I am still using a couple of 16GB Transcend 133X cards that I bought with my first 5D2 four years ago. Don't but cheap no-name ones but any decent brand is good. I generally use 32GB Transcend 400X cards that work out at just over £1/GB. Transcen SD cards are half the price but take longer to unload to computer although it's handy to have a few in reserve.

Hi Guys

On my shoulder mount cameras I have much the same system called an ENG rig (Don Bloom uses one too) It too has a waist belt and pocket but the rod has springs in it which also help absorb any bumps when you walk..I have also added a ball head (kept loose) so I have movement in all directions..replacing the top half of the upper tripod and head with a spring rod might be even better...On my cams it's great cos it takes all the weight off the front end of an 8lb rig!!

Chris

The pocket & spring rod idea is also found on the excellent DV MultiRig Support systems for DSLR/ DV/ HDV/ Camcoders (http://www.dvtec.tv/id33.html) that I own.

is the spring rod actually effective for walking? i may have to Macgyver one...

Hi Brian

It effectively takes out all the jolts and as long as you walk like a cat and don't stomp your feet it's pretty effective. I was going to make my own too but I found it easier and cheaper to get the belt and rod from Cine City in India ...I just couldn't fabricate a dual sprung rod and a nylon belt for $49.00 ...It's part of their "Gliders" rigs but they seem happy to sell the belt and rod only if you ask them.

It's not as smooth as a stedicam of course but still works pretty well and doesn't take up the space that a dual stedicam arm and vest needs!

Chris

Well my new 5D Mk3 arrived and my initial excitement was soon damped when I realized that the battery is a different type to the MK1 - I already have lots of genuine canon batteries for my mark 1!

So much for using it this weekend - slightly p*****ed off as I (foolishly) assumed would be the same battery type as the MK1 - oh well what's an extra few hundred quid :/

Well my new 5D Mk3 arrived and my initial excitement was soon damped when I realized that the battery is a different type to the MK1 - I already have lots of genuine canon batteries for my mark 1!Your annoyance is a bit belated as while the battery may be different to the original 5D that was superseded four years ago & the LP-E6 battery is used in the 5D2 7D & 60D as well as the 5D3. The first non-Canon batteries on the market were pretty crappy & wouldn't even charge in a Canon charger but as it is now four years later the clones are pretty decent some even claim higher capacity than the Canon ones & they are a quarter of the price.

Well I had a full day Asian wedding at the weekend so I thought I'd take along my new 5D as it would be the perfect opportunity to try it out and frankly I'm pretty blown away with the quality! - I mounted it on my Manfrotto NeoTec monopod so I could get quick height adjustments, and spent an hour when there was a lull getting some footage.

I normally film weddings hand held for maximum flexibility, so being somewhat anchored seemed for the first 10 minutes a pain but soon I was pleased with the stability and steady shots I was getting. Focus is the biggest issue for me - I was using my 24-105 lens and at F4 the depth of field was fairly shallow - you just get good focus on someone and they only have to move a few inches and they're soft again (must be a real struggle at 2.8 or 1.4). I found myself constantly refocussing as I shot - not a bad habit to get into I suppose -LCD screen peaking would help - I've heard much about magic lantern - would this help?

The room was fairly dimly lit so I had the ISO bumped up but the resultant footage is very pleasing to the eye - pin sharp, great colours that pop, hardly any noise - I was using Don Bloom's suggested profile settings of neutral with sharpness and contrast off - and bringing it back up in Premiere - seems to work a treat.

I do like an occasional Zoom but it's tricky to say the least using the barrel of an SLR lens! also when my memory cards were full it just stopped recording - a warning would have been nice. I'm also used to filming 50i and slowing things down occasionally but slowing down 25p doesn't look so hot - maybe time to look at Twixtor

If I can get used to the constant refocussing and lack of usable Zoom I'll be very happy and will be using it on future shoots

I think the Zacuto Z-finder is extremely good for helping with focus, though I've also been using it less and less as time goes on (something to do with the less buried in the camera you are, the more people can see your face, and the better the reactions you get from them).

If you press the "Info" button between takes, you get some idea of how much recording time you have left on the card. But, yep, card, battery and recording times are pains that never end with DSLRs. The MkII is particularly painful in the absence of warning it gives you when the 12 minutes are up.

Adrian when cameras started having LCD screens I stopped using the CRT viewfinder for convenience
(love being able to swivel an LCD screen for odd angles) - I also don't like to become faceless behind a camera - in fact I quite often have conversations with people around me while filming - less easy with your face buried in your camera - for the 5D however as focus is so critical I've just (this morning) received my Swivi VF-3 that fits like a glove on the MK3 - I've 2 weddings between xmas and new year - can't wait!

I'm not too worried about filming time as the Mk3 will go for 29 minutes but I'm still going to use traditional cams for the ceremonies and speeches so I won't need it it run for so long

Pete

I don't really see the point of feet on monopods, its not as if you can leave the rig standing unattended. For that you can use a small Cheetah lightstand which has legs which fold up on lifting and spread when placed down - a much neater solution. Use the C8:

https://www.cheetahstand.com/category-s/1862.htm

The C12 is much heavier but is man enough to be a full-on tripod replacement.



Pete

Peter where did you get your Cheetah stand? I've been trying unsuccessfully to source one from the UK - the postage from the US doubles the cost to nearly $170!

Shooting DSLR does mean changing a lot of your habbits. Zooming is pretty much out of the question unless your using a follow focus rig connected to the zoom barrel. But then you also need to refocus as you adjust the zoom. The question to ask yourself is... Why do you show a zoom? Do you ever see them doing that on TV or in the movies? Usually... no. A zoom is something the human eye cannot do so for us to see it on screen it can leave the viewer feeling somewhat uncomfortable. If you want to use a subtle zoom then do it in post, you have a lot of pixels to play with at 1080p.

Also consider shooing at 25p for a really pleasing look. While you may be partial to a slow mo shot, the DSLR shooting could be a chance to try something new.

Other things to be aware of with DSLRs is never let the recording stop unexpectedly. Running out of time is fine but if you loose power either through a dead battery, popping off a lens, opening the battery compartment during recording then you will corrupt the clip you are currently recording.

Another suggestion is to change cards after each major part of the day. While you can cram a lot onto them you have to play it safe. What if the card becomes corrupt, damaged or lost? Thats a lot of the day to loose but if you change cards then you limit your loss. You also avoid the situation of the card filling up.

Eventually you get pretty quick at manual focus, you will rarely see myself or Julie with our hands off the barrel as best men tend to sway during their speech. Without peaking the best thing to use for focus is hair and why we dont turn our sharpness all the way down. Leave it up a couple of notches and you can see the hair clearly which aids focus.

Peter, I got my 5 Cheetahs from a UK seller who no longer does them. 3 x C12 Air and 2 x C8.

I noticed that with the smaller C8 stand the shipping cost drops per item as you increase the quantity. But with the larger C12 Air - which is in many ways better than using a tripod when with a large cam - the shipping cost does not drop. Maybe best to contact Cheetah for a personalised quote if you are looking to get several.

My monopod of choice is the Gitzo GM5561T. Its beefy but lightweight and it collapses very short. I use it with either a Manfrotto 701 head - the arm of which can be used as a brace against the body for extra stability - or a quick release plate. Its pricey though at nearly £300.

Gitzo GM5561T Mountaineer Monopod - Carbon Fibre (http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/carbon_fibre/gitzo_gm5561t_mountaineer_monopod/18794_p.html)

Pete