A recent check on line with local wedding videographers reveals that lots of videographers are still using popular music on their web sites to advertise their wedding videos.
I sometimes feel that I may as well follow suit and just upload all my highlight films and if I get picked on, just turn round and say, "well everyone else is doing it ! "
I won't, and I will continue to sleep soundly knowing that I am keeping my integrity, but boy is it frustrating.
rant over ;-)

John

John,
How are you delivering doc edits of the first dance with music playing in the background? There is no legal way to run a videography business. There are brands and music in our edits that we can't control.

What timing. I just read this article: The Music Licensing Chickens Have Come Home to Roost in Wedding and Event Videography | Dare Dreamer Magazine (http://daredreamermag.com/2011/12/07/the-music-licensing-chickens-have-come-home-to-roost-in-wedding-and-event-videography/)

With sites like TheMusicBed and SongFreedom why would you need anything else? The music is fresh, original and unique and relatively cheap for us videographers.

Don't forget in the UK you can use pop-music in your DVD's legally, too. You need a PPL license per-DVD, purchased from the IOV. But this doesn't cover you to use it anywhere other than the DVD, IE: Vimeo/Youtube highlights, etc. Also http://www.prsformusic.com/users/recordedmedia/cdsandvinyl/Pages/LimitedManufactureLicence(LM).aspx

IOV | Institute of Videography : Guidance Notes on Copyright Licences for Event Videographers (http://www.iov.co.uk/showarticle.pl?id=4202;n=918)
This licence is issued on behalf of the Record Company and the Performers, and enables you to record their music in actuality (such as that being played by a DJ at a wedding reception) and to dub music on to the wedding video in post production. The licences are in the form of holographic stickers which must be applied to all copies of the video.

How much?
The cost of these licences varies according to the number of licences you purchase - but can cost from as little as £0.85 including VAT. Each copy of the production will require a separate PPL Licence.

5 x Licenses = £20.50 (£4.10 each)
20 x Licenses = £31 (£1.55 each)
50 x Licenses = £62 (£1.24 each)
100 x Licenses = £87 (0.87p each)

How to buy your PPL Licences
These can be purchased through the IOV online at IOV | Institute of Videography : PPL Licences (http://www.iov.com/ppl)
(This link includes the facility to download a postal application)

Contact
For further information, please contact the IOV - 020 8502 3817

Ive been using song freedom for some time now, for all of our online demo videos. The choice is very good, however I do actually pay for the songs. Thats why I was having a small rant.
When you see other companies clearly not bothering. What suprised me though was that some were hosted on vimeo as I thought they didnt allow copyright music.
Patrick, I remember that incident well. I think that was when most wedding video companies suddenly realised what could happen and started to use sites like songfreedom. We certainly did.

Don't let that discourage you. I actually DONT want to use popular music even if I could get away with it. It's all in how you sell it. I tell people:

1) I have respect for artists because I'm an artist myself and I'm giving you back something unique, creative, and an art piece on its own.

2) I don't want you to have to deal with not being able to upload videos to the internet in the future. With SOPA/PIPA earlier this year its a real possibility and would suck if 10 years from now when all your family media and photos are on some cool website that your wedding videos aren't allowed on because of the music.

3) I want the videos to stand out on their own. With fresh new music people have new emotions tied to the video. This is rather then a popular song where you already have preconceived feelings about the song and what it means to you. So using popular music can be a big distraction from the wedding film with should be soley yours and not remind your uncle about losing his virginity to Lionel Richie and Diana Ross's 'Endless Love' .

Well I don't say the last line, but its good to have in your back pocket to hit it home.

On a kind of related topic - what about clients that rip a sequence (it has happened to me) from their wedding DVD and post it online? (You Tube in this instance) Despite me having a PPL licence I worry that I might be target for a law suit! I suspect it has happened more than once.

Pete

I don't see how using a Song Freedom clip, compared to a Robbie Williams clip makes a wedding video "an art piece on its own" - you've still just copied someone else's talented works... but you've been convinced to do it legally.

John - what do you do when the bride walks down the aisle to Robbie, surely you don't dub over other music?

Or unplug all your microphones during the reception where you will be recording dozens of songs? Technically recording a DJ playing music could violate copyright as well if we really wanted to be conservative about music copyright law.

On a kind of related topic - what about clients that rip a sequence (it has happened to me) from their wedding DVD and post it online? (You Tube in this instance) Despite me having a PPL licence I worry that I might be target for a law suit! I suspect it has happened more than once.

PeteDon't worry. A client copying your DVD is nothing to do with you. They are infringing copyright (the Right to Copy) not you. Just look at all those clips on YouTube from the BBC or Hollywood movies. It's the person who copies & uploads who is responsible not the programme creator.

I don't see how using a Song Freedom clip, compared to a Robbie Williams clip makes a wedding video "an art piece on its own" - you've still just copied someone else's talented works... but you've been convinced to do it legally.

John - what do you do when the bride walks down the aisle to Robbie, surely you don't dub over other music?

I don't think he's saying that it makes the video more artistic. I believe he's saying that he is respecting the fellow artist by purchasing a license to their music and not violating their copyright.

John - what do you do when the bride walks down the aisle to Robbie, surely you don't dub over other music?

I too would like to know what happens when you have copyrighted music playing in the church or at the reception, first dance etc. How do you get around that? This thread has gone a bit quiet since that question was asked.
It's something that is unavoidable so what to do....

A recent check on line with local wedding videographers reveals that lots of videographers are still using popular music on their web sites to advertise their wedding videos

I just went to Vimeo, searched for the keyword "wedding" and sort on newest first, and after having a quick look at 6 videos I found 1 that had "John Lennon - Love" as sound track, one with "Johnny Nash - I Can See Clearly Now " and one with "Lmfao, everyday I'm shufflin"

So 3 out of 6 random videos with music I"m pretty sure about that is not licensed and where VIMEO doesn't seem to care...

The small fish get away with it and the big ones (Like Joe Simon some time ago) might get caught in the net and used to set as example, it's just a matter of not getting noticed too much. Only when a music rights organisation gets involved you are in trouble, the question is, would you take the risk of bancrupcy if you get caught?

But I can agree it is frustrating to see how many just get away with it, especially if they are competitors in your same area that can use this kind of popular music to their advantage.

Hey Chris

I doubt whether you could film a reception without recording the DJ's music ..it's just a basic fact!!

All I put up on the web (for the bride's overseas friends) is a shortened version of the vows ...that way the audio is mine and no music is involved. Just explain to the bride (if she wants something with music on it) that you will replace the recorded music with royalty free stuff.

It only seems to be online clips that are of concern..even if you were blantantly using commercial music on the bride's DVD ..only she and her friends will view it anyway but it's still safer to get a licence for the DVD set anyway. Ours are preety reasonable ..around $400 -$500 a year for unlimited weddings and up to 20 disks per wedding. However web videos are not covered and are considered 'broadcast'

You can manipulate your online sample clips for prospective brides by replacing with royalty free but I can see the problem for the guys doing cinematic hilite clips online where the music is important to the vision. I shoot doc style so I'm not affected.

Chris

I too would like to know what happens when you have copyrighted music playing in the church or at the reception, first dance etc. How do you get around that? This thread has gone a bit quiet since that question was asked.
It's something that is unavoidable so what to do....Not a problem for you Chris as like us you are in the UK & can license music for DVD/Blu-ray at very reasonable rates.

Its pretty clear that if you take a copyright sound track from a CD and use it as background to your online video you are in breach of copyright.

But there are so many shades of grey in between and I've never been able to find a definitive answer. OK in the UK you can sidestep the offline usage legitimately by buying affordable licenses for offline limited quantity use only.

But online?

Take this scenario: you are shooting a hip downtown walkabout sequence that is improvised and cannot be re-shot. A car driver waiting at traffic lights has his roof down and copyright music blaring out for a good 30 seconds whilst he waits for the lights to change. You cannot help but have it in the shoot, it was part of what happened. Music industry would no doubt say tough luck.

Or this one: shooting bride getting ready. She has a music channel playing on the TV. Tough luck again?

Or a more common one: The first dance. Who wants the sterile sound of tracks taken direct from the DJ's deck? No. Much more attractive to be able to include the hoots claps and cheers of the crowd, and almost inevitably the technical quality of the music track will not be anything like CD quality.

At what point does music become incidental to the production and copyright not relevant?

I've found you have to put some serious time and effort into finding suitable royalty free tracks. I have about two dozen usable ones now. I think they are usually more desirable than recognisable hits anyway; I use instrumentals so they are easy to cut and trim. From the clients side commercial tracks may seem like a good idea at the time but their tastes may change, the artist may be involved in some scandal that taints the memory, the tracks may quickly become dated uncool etc.

Pete

Or unplug all your microphones during the reception where you will be recording dozens of songs? Technically recording a DJ playing music could violate copyright as well if we really wanted to be conservative about music copyright law.

Recording the music isn't a violation of copyright. Using the recording of that music in our own work is.

That's why I quit wedding video. I'm convinced the way the laws are structured in the USA, wedding video as we know it is technically illegal.

I'm convinced the way the laws are structured in the USA, wedding video as we know it is technically illegal.

The same applies for Europe, but since your dvd's are destined to be used in a private environment the music industry doesn't care that much, they only care if you go outside that private circle to promote your business and even then it depends on how "visible" you are. Like with Joe Simon where one video got viral, drew too much attention causing a full check up on all his videos. As his video's where on Vimeo they could easily spend more time to take a lot more Vimeo's videos (and their owners) down due to violation of copyright, but they didn't, so why is that? This whole music business is one big corrupted mess and gives me a headache, even when you think you are safe you are sometimes not and it's very difficult to find out like I did some time ago with Songfreedom claiming to have worldwide synch rights on a particular song but not necessarily the streaming rights. Only that was said after I found out they where lying to me and when I confronted them with it. So where does this leave me as a paying client who wants to do it right?