If you are an Indie Filmmaker who loves to create movies that entertain the human race this is your camera! If you plan to make movies for the year 2006 that follow a narrative thread with the intentions to place your finished non-fiction movie on a High Definition DVD disc to be played on the flat-panel televisions of AS MANY people as you can possible get it played on.....then this camera is what you need.

Me...I will purchase two of them the day they come out and go to work immediately. I will Place my Z1U in the trophy display case next to my Xl1s, DV500 & DVX100a respectively.

Why do I say all this?

Well, I'll tell you... I say this because Canon is PROVEN. I say this because Canon had a WORKING MODEL to show Chris & Michael at a show and not some Balsa wood & aluminum mock-up promising a bunch of stuff to keep their fan base. I say this because Canon is not interested in BRAINWASHING everybody by saying "Wait till NAB" and basically defaming its competitors by sending representatives to these forums to push their agenda. I say this because Canon is BAD-ASS when it comes to optics. I say this because I own a Digital Rebel and It needs a big brother! *smile*

And finally, I say this because I just re-read the specs of this camera, word for word...and it is f**king SWEET..... Read it yourself....

____________________________________________________________

New Three CCD Camcorder Features Native 16:9 HD Image Quality at 1080i; Adjustable Frame Rates of 60i, 30F and 24F; and Canon's Professional "Jackpack" Terminals

(NEW YORK -- Sept. 14, 2005) As Canon's first HD video camera, the XL H1 High Definition (HD) camcorder and 20x HD video zoom lens with Superior Canon Optics* provide broadcasters with a low-cost 1080i resolution option for ENG, Documentary or Reality TV production. Filmmakers will also appreciate the extensive Cine controls and 24 Frame rate option the XL H1 camcorder offers. Canon's "professional jackpack" features include uncompressed digital HD-SDI output for seamless integration into broadcast studios or high-quality image transfer to non-linear editing systems. The Genlock feature allows movie sets to easily synchronize camera settings across multiple camcorders and SMPTE time-codes in-and-out allow for streamlined tape and edit management.

"As FCC deadlines for transferring all television content to digital rapidly approach, broadcasters are looking for low-cost acquisition options that do not require them to revamp their entire infrastructure," said Yukiaki Hashimoto, senior vice president and general manager of the Consumer Imaging Group at Canon U.S.A., Inc., a subsidiary of Canon Inc. "By offering backward compatibility with current SD-based infrastructure, the XL H1 HD camcorder combines the right features at the right price to meet the demanding needs of television production and movie making."

HD Resolution and More
The XL H1 camcorder has three 1/3 inch 16:9 interlaced CCDs that capture images at 1080i resolution. The camcorder features selectable frame rates of 60i, 30 Frame and 24 Frame to allow the user to adjust to the assignment at hand and can switch back to SD resolution if needed.

At the 30 Frame rate, broadcasters can capture high motion, like sports with confidence that each frame is captured individually and completely. Filmmakers can utilize the 24 Frame rate when creating the look and feel of movie film. The 60i frame rate, meanwhile, delivers exceptional resolution for shooting environments like ENG or Reality TV.

The XL H1 HD camcorder is the first model to include Canon's proprietary DIGIC DV II image processor. DIGIC DV II is an image processor that can process both HD and SD video signals as well as still photos, while maintaining the correct color space for each mode.

Make the Connection with the Professional Jackpack Terminals
The XL H1 camcorder's professional jackpack terminals consist of three key features designed to streamline production: HD-SDI output (High Definition Serial Digital Interface), Genlock and SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers) Time Code input and output.

To streamline in-studio television production, the XL H1 model offers HD-SDI and SD-SDI output. HD-SDI output allows professionals to directly connect to a TV control room or a non-linear editing system. With this feature, users can plug their XL H1 camcorder into any professional's system with an HD-SDI input and can deliver live, unfiltered HD content in all its brilliant detail. With other HDV models on the market, the user must feed the HD signal into an analog to digital signal converter box which adds an extra step, not to mention, an extra cost. The XL H1 camcorder can also record to HDV Master recording media or Mini-DV tapes.

Multi-camera shoots with the XL H1 model are no problem thanks to the camcorder's Genlock synchronization input feature. This feature allows many XL H1 camcorders to synchronize through a switcher. With its SMPTE time code input and output, multiple cameras on a shoot can all lay down the same time code. The XL H1 camcorder uses a customizable open-architecture approach, selectable frame rates and multiple output options so professionals have exactly the right tool, every time they need it.

Take Total Cine Control
Each year, the number of filmmakers turning to video-based acquisition solutions for movie production grows. Moviemakers that shoot video place strong emphasis on delivering the "film" look to their pictures. Canon's new XL H1 camcorder offers filmmakers the ability to customize their video recordings using a number of variables, including: three color matrixes for a wide range of color correction and two cine gammas for intricate adjustment of dynamic range, customizable: knee, black stretch, horizontal detail, coring, sharpness, noise reduction, color gain, hue and master color adjustments. Each one of these settings can be modified independently, thereby giving the camera operator precise control over the "film-like" appearance of their video.

Still Image Recording for Better Workflow
In addition to its extraordinary video capabilities, Canon's XL H1 HD camcorder can capture still images plus metadata at full HD resolution (1920 x 1080 dpi or 2.1 megapixels) onto a standard Secure Digital (SD) Memory Card and MMC media. The "Photo" button located on the outside of the camcorder allows users to capture still images at up to five frames per second. Camcorder settings can be stored on the memory card and transferred to another camcorder so setup can be replicated.

The XL H1 camcorder's still image capture plus metadata feature provides an in-camcorder solution for cinematographers and directors to check for scene continuity and provides added back-up to any still photographers on set.

Field of View
Canon is launching a new multi functional color electronic viewfinder (EVF) and 2.4" 16:9 LCD monitor with Safe Area Marking built-in; black and white mode; Zebra Pattern (70-100 IRE); Horizontal and Vertical flip and a Distance Readout (using 20X HD Video lens).

As a menu option, users can chose to view Aspect Ratio Guides in the viewfinder. Canon provides a choice of 4x3, 13x9, 14x9, 1.66:1, 1.75:1 1.85:1, 235:1 guides. The XL H1 HD camcorder viewfinder also includes a feature called Focus Help. The first setting — Peaking — creates an exaggerated line in the viewfinder that disappears when the image is focused. The second setting — Magnifying — enlarges the viewfinder image, helping the camera operator better see if the image is properly focused.

The New Canon Lens Addition
The new XL H1 HD camcorder features Canon's XL-interchangeable lens mount. For the XL H1 camcorder, Canon drew upon its exceptional heritage and expertise in designing and manufacturing lenses for photography and broadcast TV to create its new 20x HD video zoom lens with Superior Canon Optics. This lightweight, high performance lens achieves fast, precise focusing and a unique balance of focal length, angle of view and depth of field; key quality attributes that distinguish Canon from some other brands.

In addition it incorporates multiple Fluorite elements for superior contrast, resolution and color fidelity through the reduction of chromatic aberration. The 20x HD Video lens offers a fast f/1.6 to f/3.5 aperture for users that shoot under the most demanding lighting conditions and a close focusing distance from only 20mm away (when at wide angle). At an aspect ratio of 16:9, the 20x zoom range is an impressive 38.9mm to 778mm (35mm equivalent). At the 4:3 aspect ratio, it is an equally impressive 47.4mm to 954mm (35mm equivalent). The lens features a 72mm filter thread, two independent ND filters (1/6, 1/32), focus and zoom presets, and optical image stabilization.

Canon's Super-Range Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) system corrects camera shake instantly so even hand held shots, at full telephoto, and shots taken from a moving car, are smooth and steady. Because it is optical, it can compensate for a greater degree of camera shake and avoids any loss in image quality, unlike some electronic image stabilizers.

Other optical image stabilizers use a gyro sensor to detect camcorder vibration (the data from which controls a vari-angle prism that continuously corrects the path of the incoming light). Canon's SuperRange OIS system goes one step further by examining the image after the CCD receives it and detecting any low-frequency vibrations missed by the gyro. This data is fed back to accelerate and refine the movement of the vari-angle prism. This greatly improves performance for low frequency vibration, resulting in the most advanced optical image stabilization available today.
___________________________________________________

Isn't that amazing??

- ShannonRawls.com

Sure is Shannon... and while you're buying two of these babies - are you going to pick up an HDCAM SR deck?

*smile*

-Steve

<<< I say this because Canon had a WORKING MODEL to show Chris & Michael at a show and not some Balsa wood & aluminum mock-up promising a bunch of stuff to keep their fan base. I say this because Canon is not interested in BRAINWASHING everybody by saying "Wait till NAB" and basically defaming its competitors by sending representatives to these forums to push their agenda. I say this because Canon is BAD-ASS when it comes to optics. I say this because I own a Digital Rebel and It needs a big brother! *smile*>>>>



Hey Shannon,

I love your spirit.....

I agree. How is it Canon out the door is working? Ready for shipping in no time. The whole NAB/Pana left a bad taste in many mouths. Be careful, I got street hung and left for dead when I spoke openly a short while ago. It sucks. But hey, we are getting great tools either way. Canon is my favorite. My Canon DSLR will like some companionship as well........



Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com


My latest articles:
http://www.pbase.com/aghvx200/do_hvx200s_dream_of_lenses

The JVC GY-HD100 and Its Second Coming
http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcprohd/pappas5.php

ARTICLE ON JVC'S HIGH DEF CAMERA THE JVCHD100u
http://www.pbase.com/aghvx200/pappasarts_entertainment_

HDX-200 lens good or just functional Article....
http://www.pbase.com/aghvx200/hdx200_lens_good_or_just_functional_

SDX900 vs AG-HVX200 Article..
http://www.pbase.com/aghvx200/sdx900_vs_aghvx200_illustrated_pov

Yep, you're going to need a deck to capture the sdi out. Add another 30k to your total.

Or a very large raid array.

woah easy tiger!

I must admit the black look adds to the pro style of the Camera.

I mean would you have considered it if say it was silver?

Must have for indies? Who knows, we'll need to see footage. But a camera that costs 9K for crappy HDV and comes with that crappy servo zoom lens that's limiting at best, uselss at worst is quite funny. Add to that a not very wide, wide and here you go, we'll all need to go and get a manual lens on top of it, and what will that be, the old 14x or 16x - and again we'll need to make the trade off on features of those two, or get both = more $$. So for indies with 15K to spend (Or more if they want to get the HDSDI stuff happening no?) this might be OK but not for us low budget shooters in the DVX/XL2 market.

I'm holding my judgement as the news is pretty new, but I would have bet my house that Canon would have offered this with a manual lens, seeing as the JVC did - and I'd now be living in the gutter.

But a camera that costs 9K for crappy HDV and comes with that crappy servo zoom lens that's limiting at best, uselss at worst is quite funny.... I'm holding my judgement as the news is pretty new

Well it doesn't sound to me like you're holding your judgement, but you're not paying $9K for "crappy HDV." The XL H1 is *NOT* an HDV camcorder. It's a format agnostic HD camera. It's HDCAM, it's DVCPRO HD, it's whatever you want to record to on whatever deck you've rented. Yes it has an HDV tape transport but it is not first and foremost HDV. It's first and foremost uncompressed HD. As for the lens, you haven't tried it yet, so I don't see how you can judge that either. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Chris, you are right, I am jumping the gun a little here re the lens - it's based on what I've read in places, and at this stage a lot of it might be conjecture. Still, I would have expected Canon of all companies to provide a completely manual lens. Are the pcitures we've seen all wrong?

Also, I think it might be drawing a bit of a long bow to say it's format agnostic. I understand what you mean, but I'm talking here about the people who look for an all in one package without having to buy lots of extras like recording decks. Of course, it's looking like the market for this camera is not those people anymore and that's fine, for those who it's now aimed at, but not for us.

If I'm doing run and gun, I'm not going to carry a deck with me, so it's HDV. And that's always been my problem (Among many :) )


Aaron

indie must have?
a studio, must have maybe.

who in the indie world can deal with 1.4GB data/s, all the Harddrive to store it?

If you strip that HD-SDI expensive feature out of the equation:
Its just a 4:2:0 HDV cam with removable lenses for $9K - but wait, JVC does the same 4:2:0 HDV for $6K. Is it worth 2K more for 1080 vs 720 ? maybe.

Not many in the indie world can afford a deck to get to 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD thro this cam - but wait, you can get 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD cam for $6 from Panny. :) Is it worth 2K more for interchangable lens system ? again maybe. I would *love* to have interchangable lens system - but would also like affordable 4:2:2 data.

If you "rent a deck when needed" - then you might as well rent it with a camera.

After cornering the Canon people down on the floor, and getting them to put this cam through it's paces, I'm sold on this new Canon video platform. It's currently packaged for a higher end market, but I'm looking forward to a re-packaged version for the average independent filmmaker.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure what I'm getting for Christmas.

As for the styling, this is probably the sexiest camera I've seen. It would look very comfortable in an Aliens movie / Geiger painting. It's definitely got curves.

Not many in the indie world can afford a deck to get to 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD thro this cam - but wait, you can get 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD cam for $6 from Panny. :) Is it worth 2K more for interchangable lens system ? again maybe. I would *love* to have interchangable lens system - but would also like affordable 4:2:2 data.

If you "rent a deck when needed" - then you might as well rent it with a camera.

Remember RAM, for 6K you can't get DVCPro HD either. You need P2 or a hard drive recorder, DVRack and laptop.

Remember RAM, for 6K you can't get DVCPro HD either. You need P2 or a hard drive recorder, DVRack and laptop.

so ok - add $2K to recently announced 80G firestore. Grand total $8K. Add 1K for a couple 100GB drives etc.

So for 9K, you would get 4:2:2 data with HVX200.

With this Canon - how much does it really take to get usable 4:2:2 data?

Well it doesn't sound to me like you're holding your judgement, but you're not paying $9K for "crappy HDV." The XL H1 is *NOT* an HDV camcorder. It's a format agnostic HD camera. It's HDCAM, it's DVCPRO HD, it's whatever you want to record to on whatever deck you've rented. Yes it has an HDV tape transport but it is not first and foremost HDV. It's first and foremost uncompressed HD. As for the lens, you haven't tried it yet, so I don't see how you can judge that either. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Chris, I'm sorry but by your line of thought, the JVC and Sony are also format agnostic. Just because it's SDI, doesn't really make a practical difference. The JVC can output uncompressed HD in progressive mode, which the Canon doesn't seem to be able. The XL-H1 is a HDV camcorder. That's what it records to. It's like saying a DV camcorder is not a DV camcorder because it has a composite output, and you can use that to record to any format you want. The H1 is also a HD camera, but so is the HD100 and Z1. But to market a HDV camcorder as a HD camera first, seems to me like a marketing stunt. How are you going to record anything other than HDV or DV if you need to film in the top of a mountain or some place you can’t have a heavy and inconvenient deck after you? This very same thing, is what confined the Viper camera mostly to studio use, while the F900 is shooting features all over the world, even though it’s much inferior to the Viper.
About the lens, I understand you say it's good, but one can't deny a manual lens would be much better.

Hey Shannon, about it being a must have for indie filmmakers, I really don't remember the last time I saw Genlock and the need of a nexternal deck for recording, on a must have list of any indie filmmaker. That's basically all it has over the HD100, besides the huge price difference. That if you don't count the HD100 outputs uncompressed progressive and not interlaced. Which filmmaker is looking for interlaced?
It has 1080 lines, so I think that feature alone could make it a must have for indies. But the price sure doesn't..
Just my opinion.

RAM,

The difference between 720p and 1080p could be well worth the extra cost if it is a good 1080p.

What about for broadcast work however? I personally prefer progressive video but sometimes you may get a client that insists on either 720p 60p or 1080i 60i. In this case the CANON will be the only one able to do this since the JVC can only do up to 30p. With the CANON you could also get a slightly softer interpolated 720p at 60p by down converting each field into 60 frames. While this wouldn't look as good as 1280x720 it may look as good as 720p from the HVX200 because 960x720 = 1280x540 in terms of number of pixels.

At one point I was planning on getting 3 cameras to cover the full market for HD. Now I only need 1 or 2 at the most. With the CANON I can do
1080i
1080p 30p
1080p 24p
720p 30p
720p 24p
softer 720p 60p
1080i 50i
1080p 25p
720p 50p interpolated
720p 25p
and any SD format I want to down convert to either NTSC or PAL at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i or 60i.

All ofthese formats will look great except for maybe the 720p 50 and 60 which may be slightly softer than a true 1280x720 source. 720p 24/25/30p will be great since we start with 1080 24/25/30p.

The funny thing about the XLH1 using HDV is that with the HVX200 there is no cheap easy on the road way of shooting HD and a lot of people are complaining about that. Canon gives you the option of shooting long form HD and now people are complaining about that.

Plus read my post on how SDI capture doesn't have to cost a lot.

I know the 50i upgrade costs $500 but whats $500.00 compared to a whole new market to tap?

If I did get a second camera it may be the HD100 or the HVX200 for a good full resolution 720 option. Both cameras will allow me to capture live 60p video. The bonus of the HD100 is full 1280x720 and cheaper on the run shooting for long projects. The bonus of the HVX200 is the full field of shooting options as well as 4:2:2 shooting away from the studio although slightly lower resolution.

Hi Aaron, Still, I would have expected Canon of all companies to provide a completely manual lens.And what makes you think they won't do that? Remember the XL1 came out in 1997 and it wasn't until much later in 1998 when the 14x manual lens was offered. Just because there isn't a manual lens for the H1 now, doesn't mean there never will be.

I'm talking here about the people who look for an all in one package without having to buy lots of extras like recording decks. Of course, it's looking like the market for this camera is not those people anymore and that's fine, for those who it's now aimed at, but not for us.This particular camera clearly is not aimed at that market. Maybe their next one will be?

If I'm doing run and gun, I'm not going to carry a deck with me, so it's HDV.I think the XL H1 does great HDV, but I wouldn't buy it for that. You'll be much better off with the Sony Z1, unless you must have the 24F mode. The Z1 is still king of the mountain in that range in my opinion.

With the CANON I can do
1080i
1080p 30p
1080p 24p
720p 30p
720p 24p
softer 720p 60p
1080i 50i
1080p 25p
720p 50p interpolated
720p 25p
and any SD format I want to down convert to either NTSC or PAL at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i or 60i.

Where is it written the H1 can shoot all that? Canon's site says only 1080i with 30f anf 24f.

I wonder if Canon will sell the PAL version in Europe and then sell an NTSC upgrade. Hmmm ...

It has been stated that the CCD block is interlaced, not progressive, so I don't know why anyone is getting excited about recording 1080p. From an interlaced CCD is can only be an electronic conversion, nothing a NLE can't do from 720p or 1080i etc

The best thing about this camera is the CCD being pretty much native 1440x1080 for its 1080i. This might make sensitivy even more of a problem with this camera though (even smaller pixels than the Z1 and HD100).

The 50i/60i conversion is available to both North American and European versions.

1080i
1080p 30p
1080p 24p
720p 30p
720p 24p
softer 720p 60p
1080i 50i
1080p 25p
720p 50p interpolated
720p 25p
and any SD format I want to down convert to either NTSC or PAL at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i or 60i.

Where is it written the H1 can shoot all that? Canon's site says only 1080i with 30f anf 24f.
Michael, I don't think you're clear on the concept of uncompressed HD out to HD-SDI. All those formats are possible because there are various HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, D5-HD etc. decks which accept HD-SDI in and record to those formats.

Michael, I don't think you're clear on the concept of uncompressed HD out to HD-SDI. All those formats are possible because there are various HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, D5-HD etc. decks which accept HD-SDI in and record to those formats.


is there a way to store it until we can get it to a rental house deck?

Eg: I can shoot it in a museum, store the footage in a tape/hdisk, take it to a HD deck rental place - and convert it to whatever format i want?

You'd be shooting HDV. Not that HDV is all that bad. I saw some beautiful HDV at the Canon Expo, looked absolutely stunning... but the few pans that were in that video were very slow pans. Those are my favorite kind anyway.

"crappy HDV" ? Last time I checked before HDV came out indies were shooting on MiniDV... so,unless all have suddenly won the Lotto and changed to the new Arriflex D-20, HDV is a hell lotta better than DV.
So how I see it HDV is a blessing for indies on a below zero budget.

So yeah, the new Canon has HD SDI output, great!! I will plug it straight to my Quantel iQ v1.2 with 7TB of storage so I can handle it... gimme a break!

In my world 99% of the work I do I can do it with a Z1, if I ever need more for that 1% Ill rent a Viper and post somewhere else.

And people should really get over the 24p thing, if making a good movie absolutely depends on you being able to shoot 24p then you might start looking for another job.

If you really need to degrade your work to make it look like a choppy 100 year old technology you can always do it in post and save thousands of dollars.

Don't get me wrong, I do like film look in many cases and I have converted to 24p a lot of my stuff, but I rather capture as much information as I can and then tweak it to my liking in post, witch I can do with my cheap G5 dual 2.7MHZ and a couple hundred gigs in IEEE1934 drives. There is a path from 60i to 24p but there is no path the other way. 60i gives me options that 24p dosn't.

So, here is my prediction for the REAL world : the new Canon is not even going to bruise Sony's dominance of cheap HD market. Nor will the new Panasonic. The only one that may do a bit of damage is the JVC, then again not having 1080 is a bummer.

I agree with you completely Adrian. The new Canon's biggest competition is the JVC HD100. The HVX200 is over in another arena entirely; the Sony Z1 is also in another place altogether. Each of these cameras have specific target markets and very different applications from each other.

Michael, I don't think you're clear on the concept of uncompressed HD out to HD-SDI. All those formats are possible because there are various HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, D5-HD etc. decks which accept HD-SDI in and record to those formats.

Oh ok. It's because I was counting what the camera can record, not what it can send out. But anyway, doesn't it have to output 720p in order to a DVCPRO-HD deck to record it? Or the deck to the convertion from 1080i to 720p? I was under the impression te H1 outputs 1080i only.

That's what's so cool about it... a DVCPRO HD deck will record that incoming HD-SDI video at 720p.

But doesn't a DVCPRO-HD deck has also component IN? So it would also record what comes out the Z1 as 720p. But that doesn't make the Z1 a 720p camera right?
See, what I'm not getting is all this hype over the SDi and people saying the camera can do 1080p, 720p etc. The camera can not. The decks will. But that's a different piece of equipment. You have to buy or rent it. There’s an added cost for that. And the other cameras can do it too. It sounds like a market gimmick to me. Really does. Sorry, but the H1 is a HDV camcorder. If people will consider it a 720p or 1080p HD camera because it can output video, which can be recorded by other decks as such, then so is the HD100 and Z1. Can you record 720p or 1080p to a computer from the H1? I would think not. So, it's a 1080i HDV camcorder, which outputs 1080i via SDI.

But doesn't a DVCPRO-HD deck has also component IN? So it would also record what comes out the Z1 as 720p. But that doesn't make the Z1 a 720p camera right?
See, what I'm not getting is all this hype over the SDi and people saying the camera can do 1080p, 720p etc. The camera can not. The decks will. But that's a different piece of equipment. You have to buy or rent it. There’s an added cost for that. And the other cameras can do it too. It sounds like a market gimmick to me. Really does. Sorry, but the H1 is a HDV camcorder. If people will consider it a 720p or 1080p HD camera because it can output video, which can be recorded by other decks as such, then so is the HD100 and Z1. Can you record 720p or 1080p to a computer from the H1? I would think not. So, it's a 1080i HDV camcorder, which outputs 1080i via SDI.


I think you're right in your thinking, Michael. A better way to describe this would probably be to say it outputs the highest quality signal, so if it needs to be converted to other resolutions, it's possible. In other words, you can't take 720p out of the JVC and get real 1080i signal even with a deck. This is just an uncompressed stream...highest quality possible. You want to convert it? Fine...

Remember my post about wanting more than HDV from this camera? This is exactly what I was talking about. It's a high quality option that will allow a MUCH higher quality signal than HDV, if needed. Options are always good and Canon did a great thing by putting the SDI out on this camera.

In essence, this is what those Andromeda/Reel Stream guys were trying to do...grabbing an uncompressed signal (though SD for them) before it compresses for tape output. Only it's built in and it's a fully digital signal...

Kevin

I think you're right in your thinking, Michael. A better way to describe this would probably be to say it outputs the highest quality signal, so if it needs to be converted to other resolutions, it's possible. .

That’s a different thing than saying “It’s a format agnostic camera”.


Remember my post about wanting more than HDV from this camera? This is exactly what I was talking about. It's a high quality option that will allow a MUCH higher quality signal than HDV, if needed. Options are always good and Canon did a great thing by putting the SDI out on this camera.

Ok, and what are you going to do? Buy a HDCAM deck for the camera? For a 1/3" prosumer camera? Ok, you may say you can rent. But if you are renting a HDCAM deck, rent a F900 already and get the full specs. Why rent a HDCAM deck for a 1/3" prosumer camera? It's like hyping around you are buying a camping tent and is renting a garden in a Bervely Hills mansion to camp on the weekend. No sense really. The whole idea of buying a 1/3" camera is to get good quality video on a budget, otherwise get the higher end stuff. If you pay 9k for a prosumer camera, but have to add on expensive hardware to make it perform above the 6k cameras, what's the point?


In other words, you can't take 720p out of the JVC and get real 1080i signal even with a deck. This is just an uncompressed stream...highest quality possible.

Well, in my opinion, highest quality would be 1080p.

I was talking about how to get high quality video in other formats either in a deck or converting in a edit system.

Starting with 1080p/f (I am also assuming f is the same as p here) gives you the highest level of HD that you can get. (in terms of format not optics and everything else)

1080i from other cameras would always give you an interpolated lower detail version of 720p. 1080p allows an even down scale with no deinterlacing or field seperating issues. This will give a just as good if not better 720p 24/25/30 than shooting 720p to begin with. The 720p 50p/60p comes from seperating the 60 fields and turning them into 1440x540 frames and then scaling up to 720p. This is the only not so good area but at the same time the only way to get 50p/60p HDV.

I got the frame rate options by adding the service to add 50i/25p to the camera modes basically making it shoot the same way as the Z1. I figured if I was going to pay $9000.00 I might as well add the other $500.00 right away. I'm sure at this point the wife is going to leave me anyways.

I never meant that the camera can convert to those formats just that you now have the option to choose what format you shoot in. You are no longer limited by a certain format.

The JVC HD100 is a great film camera but is really limited for event and broadcast work. You could never shoot any type of 60p or 60i HD video. Plus going from 720p to 1080p isn't as good as going from 1080p to 720p. Scaling down will always look better. You can do it but the results wouldn't be the same.

The HVX200 will be the only other camera that will allow you to shoot every format and even true 720p 60p (although slightly softer than HDV 720p). I'm not sure if it will be able to do NTSC/PAL or just one of the world formats. The HVX on the other hand may not work as well in long format broadcast or event work.

"Format agnostic camera" Chris's term from another post.

I actually think the term is fine. The camera is pretty much format agnostic. I wouldn't call something that is uncompressed a "format" of any type. The tape drive isn't, however.

Is it just me or do your posts come across as very "attacking?"

Kevin

Not attacking. Just expressing my opinions agaisnt the marketing voodoo that seems to be being thrown on us. Nothing personal against you or anybody. I always say, the fact you can't perceive emotion in the internet, is the biggest commnincation missing link of the medium. Not meaning to be offensive at all and I type this in a very relaxed and kicked back mood.
It just makes no sense to hype a camcorder as a camera. It makes no sense to hype you can rent a HDCAM deck for a 1/3" prosumer camera.

Not attacking. Just expressing my opinions agaisnt the marketing voodoo that seems to be being thrown on us. Nothing personal against you or anybody. I always say, the fact you can't perceive emotion in the internet, is the biggest commnincation missing link of the medium. Not meaning to be offensive at all and I type this in a very relaxed and kicked back mood.
It just makes no sense to hype a camcorder as a camera. It makes no sense to hype you can rent a HDCAM deck for a 1/3" prosumer camera.

This prosumer camera is going to find work in many more professional environments than consumer environments if only for the price tag. Canon is even saying it's their first 'professional camera'. Having 1/3" chips is not the image killer except for light sensitivity and DOF and those even have workarounds. With newer cameras such as the Sony HDV, JVC HD100, and Canon XL2, gain can be added without destroying the picture quality. It does make sense to hype that a $9000 camera can feed a deck with such high quality images. Nothing on the market at this point can match the Canon offering at $9K. The next step up for getting HD-SDI is a hefty one. I don't know where you are located (fill in your location please) but the US is going to become all digital broadcasting within the next few years because the FCC is mandating it. Smaller stations are going to need something to get on the HD board with that won't break the bank. This camera is aimed at those small market broadcasters. That's why the camera has genlock and SDI. There will be other HD lenses forthcoming and I see the connector has been retained that will allow for the hi-res monochrome viewfinder. And once again, Canon has managed to retain enough compatibilty with the former XL cameras so that batteries, b/w viewfinder, microphone, etc can be interchanged. So, it also means a less expensive upgrade for XL owners because they can bring forward some of their accesories.

-gb-

1/3" is an image killer below f5.

JVC detailed quite some time ago that they will have a studio version of the HD100 with HD-SDI out, the estimate was by the end of this year, possibly before the Canon hits the market.

This Canon is unlikely to be a great option for film producers though having an interlaced only CCD. In this respect the JVC still wins with a native progressive CCD block. The Canon is also looking to be 63% more expensive than the HD100 out of the box, which is already around 20% more expensive than the the Z1 out of the box.

So, it also means a less expensive upgrade for XL owners because they can bring forward some of their accesories.
Lens caps, batteries, filters, what else am I missing?

Jay

Lens caps, batteries, filters, what else am I missing?

Jay

Perhaps an important one. The high res b/w viewfinder. The connector is still there under the color v/f connector so I am 'assuming' that it accepts the FU-1000. If it has the same intelligent shoe on top, then the DM50 shotgun mike, MA300(for two additional XLR jacks). The MA300 might catch on pretty well with the sound now able to attain 192khz on 4 channels. The EF adapter is forward compatible also.

What I think would be really fun is to slap the new 20X HD lens on my XL2 and see if the pictue quality improves. As Symon Wyndham points out on his website, even though the Sony DSR570 records to 25mbps DVCAM, it has a higher image quality due to processing internally, and the better glass on the front of the camera.

-gb-

... the Sony DSR570 records to 25mbps DVCAM, it has a higher image quality due to processing internally, and the better glass on the front of the camera.


Don't forget the 2/3" chips, they probably make the biggest difference.

Don't forget the 2/3" chips, they probably make the biggest difference.

For certain aspects yes. Mainly low light sensitivity and DOF. Of course, Sonys of all flavors have a 'look' that most folks find visually pleasing. I think it's the way they process skintones so well that does it. They seem to have that down pat.

-gb-

If you want to rent a F900 package for a week be my guest. Have you
checked on price? You'd have the HD1 half paid off.

I make nature documentaries and run a video studio. I would need to
rent a camera for a summer, not a week to shoot a nature doc.
An HD1, though expensive for me on my University salary,
will provide amazing results via HDSDI that even National Geo, BBC and
Discovery will accept.

In the studio, guess what?
I HAVE lights and CAN shoot at almost whatever Fstop I want.
1/3" chips can do an amazing job given the right support.
ANY camera's output can look horrible with bad lighting.

I don't have $120,000.00 for a F900. I don't have $60K for a Varicam
that needs a $25,000.00 lens.

I do HAVE:

A Canon EOS adapter, 100-400 lens, 16-35 Lens, a Apple 2g/2g G5
and a fibre channel array. The HD1 interfaces like a dream come true.

Yes, HD decks cost lots of money, but actually less than my Avid Xpress
cost years ago. Will someone make a device inexpensively that can
capture HD-SDI? It is only a matter of time IMO. (HELLO CANON?)

Remember people, this camera will give HIGH END results. You gotta pay
to play, but with the HD1, that cost as just dropped $50,000.00!
Those who can pony $10K can give the real pros a run in the quality dept.
Heck, even the $20K SDX900 when put side to side with a XL2 by no means
looked better, so I expect the HD1 will rock the middle world of film and video because it's all about the glass and it's removable :)

The only down side to the JVC HD100 camera with the SDI port is that they take out the HDV tape deck making it a studio only camera. You now have no options at all for shooting outside of the studio. With the XLH1 you can shoot some killer video in a studio or on a nice set but then still go into the woods and shoot HDV. THE XLH1 might cost a lot but at the same time it does a lot.

Will someone make a device inexpensively that can
capture HD-SDI?

If you're in a studio, such devices already exist. In specific, you could check out the BlackMagic cards, or the cards offered in Cineform's turnkey ProspectHD systems. For $12k, you can have a fully loaded editing suite that captures HD-SDI in an excellent editing codec (better than DVCPRO-HD).

Yeah yeah... $12k is a little steep - but you could do it for less with a little computer know how and wizardry.

-Steve

For certain aspects yes. Mainly low light sensitivity and DOF. Of course, Sonys of all flavors have a 'look' that most folks find visually pleasing. I think it's the way they process skintones so well that does it. They seem to have that down pat.


Also signal to noise ratio, sensitivity (although you kinda covered that) and exposure latitude. It does make a big difference. I have just been editing a project shot on a DSR-570 and I had to intercut a few pieces shot on a VX2000/PD150. The difference is clear. You don't notice the amount of noise on a 1/3" until you put the footage next to a 2/3" camera.

I know what you mean about Sony's skin tones, they are pretty good. I don't like the skin tones the XL2 produces, so I hope the XLH1 does better. The JVC HD100 is a bit iffy on skin tones as well.

Jacques you might have lights in your studio, but you won't have them when you are out making nature documentaries.

As for renting an F900, or F750, I am talking about making a living from video. If you are just at university or are an individual who is making videos for fun or out of your own finances then one of these handycams will be ideal for your purposes. Nobody is suggesting you go out and buy or rent something costing $100,000 just because an HDV camera isn't the most ideal camera in the world. Some people will be happy with an HDV camera. I however would not be.

But generally broadcast work etc is commissioned. As such they will generally have the budgets for an F900 or equivilent such as the Varicam.

There are owners of F900's and Varicams too. The prices they charge for their work reflect that. You get what you pay for. Someone who owns and runs an F900 is not going to be charging $250 a day.

If someone wants me to make them something in HD I will give them all the options that are available. If it was a small local company that wanted something in HD (I have no idea why they would want this at the present time but its just an example) I would probably recommend something shot on HDV because that is the only likely HD format that is within their budget. In that case I'll hire in a Z1 etc. I'll probably curse every second of having to use it, but if thats what the client wants I have to go along with it.

If someone wants me to make something for broadcast, and wants something very highly polished, I'll recommend them HDCAM or DVDproHD. I'll rent accordingly.

With Standard Def I am generally covered. My 510 isn't the highest level SD camera as it cannot record to any of the 50Mbps formats. However it still covers me for the vast majority of jobs I am needed for, and makes me look good in the process. It will be a long time until there is an equivilent camera to the DSR450 and PDW510 in total cost. One of the big hold ups is the cost of glass.

HD has a lot of infrastructure needed before it becomes anywhere near standard. As it stands I am not prepared to be an experimenter. I just do not see the point of offering HDV if I have no way of delivering a widely viewable master to my clients. By the time everything has settled down and there is an easy way for everyone to distribute HD video there will be a second or third generation of cameras out.

<<<Steven White]If you're in a studio, such devices already exist.>>>

Yes, I should have specified a battery powered-solid state (or disk) based
field recorder that has all the cool features therein. I bet in a couple of
years there will be a laptop that can capture HD-SDI and provide
all kinds of other cool functions such as monitoring, scopes etc. Edit
at night in the hotel or tent.

The only down side to the JVC HD100 camera with the SDI port is that they take out the HDV tape deck making it a studio only camera.

True, but it is not the only option. Both the Z1 and HD100 have uncompressed component out from the CCD head and theBlackmagic compoennt to HD-SDI converters are quite cheap. I'll bet it is next to impossible to tell the difference without a full res large reference monitor or enlarging frame captures.

Then, if you consider 2x JVC HD101 is about $11,0000 (one SDI/one HDV) but one XL HD is $9,000+, you get an extra camera for not vey much more, and can even do two camera studio shoots etc

$9,000 is a lot to pay for this camera, too much I think.

I have to agree. $9,000 is alot. The HVX200 even though it does not have removable lens is looking to be my camera. I like the P2 concept alot but not the price for them. I'm sick of tape though. I will just have to see how the 1080/24 on both H1 and HVX looks. If the H1 is way better, then that will be the camera if not then the HVX we be the camera.

Anyone know if there are free passes to res-fest to see products? I want to see the HVX200, but I'm not paying to see it. That seems stupid.

Michael Pappas
PappasArts Entertainment





$9,000 is a lot to pay for this camera, too much I think.

<snip>I will just have to see how the 1080/24 on both H1 and HVX looks. If the H1 is way better, then that will be the camera if not then the HVX we be the camera.<snip>

What, you're going to choose your camera based on how well you like the video it produces? Now there's a new concept...
:)

Personally, if I were to think about the $9000 price tag and the maybe $5,000 to $10,000 to rent a deck for 3 weeks, I'd rather use my friend's FX1 and use the $14,000 to $20,000 on making the movie, paying the cast/crew and feeding everyone, not to mention insurance.

But Shannon's enthusiasm is always cool here at DV Info.

heath