<snip>Any half-watchable camera work will come through the HDV format admirably. However, subjectively, no matter how hard I've tried, I cannot get HDV to look worse than DV... the codec is just too smart.<snip>

Just about all the HDV footage I've seen, including the 15 GOP clips from the FX1/Z1 has been technically pretty impressive. I doubt any DV footage blown up to HD resolutions would compete.

I think maybe the problem a lot of people have with HDV is they don't understand codecs. You know, if you compressed the same video twice, once into a late 90s cinepack codec based quicktime movie and again into a quicktime movie using the latest Sorenson codec, what would we find? The cinepack file would be relatively huge and look awful. The Sorenson version would have a relatively tiny file size and look fantastic. No one would argue the results, yet if we apply the same reasoning to 25mbps HDV and DV people suddenly just say "You can't fit quality HD into the same data rate".
I've seen huge threads on other sites based pretty much on that premise. Otherwise perfectly intelligent videographers that probably have not even used HDV denouncing it like they're in a holy war. All because "you can't fit HD into the same bandwith as DV SD video".

Oh well.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Lauri-

I also produce wildlife films. I will seriously consider the XLX1 when available however my main concern is all the long prime lenses that may look a bit soft with the XLX1. As it is now with my XL2 using the 4:3 aspect and a 9.6 factor, I cannot hardly use my 600mm anymore due to distortion. I wonder what multiplication factor the HD will be?

...with my XL2 using the 4:3 aspect and a 9.6 factor, I cannot hardly use my 600mm anymore due to distortion. I wonder what multiplication factor the HD will be?Hi Bill, it'll be 7.8x with the XL H1.

Thanks Chris-

I kind of thought that since the XL2 in 16:9 is also 7.8. At the show, did any of the booths try out an EF lense?

Hi Bill,

At no time during the show did I see an H1 with an EOS lens attached, but the EF adapter is listed as a fully compatible accessory.

I have same kind of thoughts.

Second, is there anybody who could say something realiable on the HDV images? In shooting landscapes the HDV will quite likely be stunning and clearly an improvement compared to DV. But, what about taking footages of moving objects such as flying birds?



If you read one of my earlier posts you will note I mentioned we have filmed fast moving aircraft (probably going faster than birds!!) with no problems at all.

Oops, I was thinking EF...didn't realize I wrote EOS. Thanks.

As it is now with my XL2 using the 4:3 aspect and a 9.6 factor, I cannot hardly use my 600mm anymore due to distortion. I wonder what multiplication factor the HD will be?

Bill, I use the 600 mm all the time with XL2 in 16:9 mode, and the image is just perfect. However, since the magnification is huge, warm moving air causes distortion. Knowing that the possibility to attach EF lenses to XL camcorders is a major factor for many users, I suspect Canon will not take a risk by making the situation worse. Instead, it's likely that Canon's main business is to sell lenses, and filming wildlife must be a pretty important marketing area for those long (profitable) lenses.

I´m looking foreward to see some footage, but I don´t think this camera is such an allrounder as they claim.
Great for reality TV, personally I think not. Cameras this size are to small to shoot with for a day straight, a full size camera is much more steady and ergonomical to work with.
And auto focus, no fixed focus ring, won´t work well.

They would be great for multi camera work though.

I´ve done music promos and drama with the XL2 with decent results, so I think XLH could be a usefull tool here.

Time will show

Being an 'indie' myself.....I hope I was correct about my own original post!

- ShannonRawls.com

It makes no sense to hype you can rent a HDCAM deck for a 1/3" prosumer camera.

Yeah, why waste time with an expensive tape-based deck using a compromised recording format when you could capture directly to a more affordable editing workstation using a full-raster, minimally compressed codec like Avid DNxHD or Cineform Prospect HD? That sounds like a pretty useful thing to be able to do from a sub-$10K camera, and not so easily done using the component outputs on the other cameras in this price range. So for $9K you get a camera with interchangeable HD lenses, a true 1440x1080 sensor, uncompressed HD-SDI outputs and the convenience of affordable HDV recording when you need it? Okay, it's a shame they didn't use a 1/2" or 2/3" sensor, but other than that this seems like a clever way to produce theater-quality HD video for under $20K including the capture/editing setup.

And how is it people have been making acceptable movies with 50-year-old SD technology, but we're not sure whether uncompressed 1080i video is good enough? What's that about?!?

And how is it people have been making acceptable movies with 50-year-old SD technology, but we're not sure whether uncompressed 1080i video is good enough? What's that about?!?


SLAM DUNK!!!!

*say it again and again and again and again and again so the newbies who are *confused as to what to buy* can understand that perfect statement.

- Shan

Yep, you're going to need a deck to capture the sdi out. Add another 30k to your total.

Or a very large raid array.

Actually you can capture directly to a computer that costs around 4k.

Chris, at Birns & Sawyer last week I filmed all sorts fast motion and normal as well. We put the footage on their big HD projection screen and it was beautiful. No issues at all, and I recorded all of that on HDV tape @ 24f.


Shannon, I hope your filming with your new baby today.

Your pics are up at the link below.

Also, there are a few photos from the HVX200/ 35mm film screening the other night at Laser Pacific.
http://www.pbase.com/arrfilms

pappas

At the Canon Global Expo last week, Canon Inc. displayed some HDV video from the H1 which was shot in Florence, Italy. It was a mix of static shots and moving images. As you might suspect the camera was locked down for most of this, but there were a few slow, careful pans. Those are the best kind of pans anyway.

My only thought is, it's expensive to wheel around a RAID and a bit of money to rent an HD deck a day. For probably the same price, a VariCam might be just as well.

Though component out, the Z1 can do uncompressed HD, too. And half the price. Again, it's component, not digital like the XL H1.

One last thing, a "great camera" doth not make a great filmmaker. Or even an adequate one.

heath

My only thought is, it's expensive to wheel around a RAID and a bit of money to rent an HD deck a day. For probably the same price, a VariCam might be just as well.

The bit rate for the Avid DNxHD format is a modest 220 Mbps or 27.5 MB/sec, which is theoretically sustainable on any decent single hard drive, and should be easily sustainable on a two-drive SATA RAID. And the Cineform/Wafian recorder will use the Prospect HD codec on similar hardware to capture "visually lossless" HD at full 1920x1080 4:2:2 resolution, something I don't think the Varicam can do.

Though component out, the Z1 can do uncompressed HD, too. And half the price. Again, it's component, not digital like the XL H1.

True, but then how do you capture that component signal? There's an apparent lack of devices which can accept a component HD input and record it to a computer hard drive: if anyone knows of a good one please provide information about that. Otherwise you have to get an adapter to convert component connectors to HD-SDI, and that's a nuisance. Plus the image on the Z1U is pixel-shifted from a 960x1080 sensor, while the Canon has a 1440x1080 sensor. Not that the Z1U image isn't nice, but if you're trying to capture maximum-quality HD it just seems like the Canon is better designed for that purpose.

One last thing, a "great camera" doth not make a great filmmaker. Or even an adequate one.

We all agree on that, but I don't see too many people using Hi-8 cameras lately...

One last thing, a "great camera" doth not make a great filmmaker. Or even an adequate one.
True, of course. But equally true is that a great filmmaker can make better footage on a great camera than they could on a middle-of-the-road camera.

I agree--a DVX100a in 60i looks better than my old XL1 in 60i.

heath

>>
True, but then how do you capture that component signal? There's an apparent lack of devices which can accept a component HD input and record it to a computer hard drive<<

Kevin, I thought BlackMagicDesigns has HD component capture cards for under 1K US.

Of course an SDI cable can run up to 300 feet which makes keeping your video village out of the way a lot easier.

I thought BlackMagicDesigns has HD component capture cards for under 1K US.

I'm looking at the BlackMagic site now and it seems like their component connectors are analog out only, not analog in. I haven't seen any product (computer-based or standalone) which can definitely capture and record an analog component HD input. If someone knows of something a web reference would be much appreciated.

Look at the multi-bridge....it will.

Miranda is a start.

heath

I looked at both the Blackmagic multibridge and Miranda HDV converter and don't see an obvious way either of these enables recording to a computer hard drive using HD component connectors. You can convert to HD-SDI and connect to a computer that way, but that's what I'm hoping to avoid. Seems odd that there isn't a simple device which just takes component connections and records from them...

A Miranda guy said it would.

heath