The Sennheiser G3, Sony UWP-V1, and ATW-1821 wireless mic systems have been great for prosumer/professional work. But what do the big boys use for critical recordings, such as one that requires a wireless microphone system with a low noise floor?

Zaxcom? Lectrosonics?

The tongue in cheek answer to the question what do the big boys use for critical recordings, such as one that requires a wireless microphone system with a low noise floor? - is simple, a cable!

Zaxcom and Lectrosonic haven't been as big a leader in the UK for TV work, as Microns and Audio Ltd and of course the Sonys seem very popular. Mind you Sennheiser seems by far the most popular brand now - their slightly upmarket range has always been popular over here. Digits are just coming on stream here, but lots of us took the Government's cash to surrender our old channel 69 units, and I bought exactly the same brands again - Sennheiser still cutting it for me. The very expensive systems just don't offer enough difference from something like G3 - now the battery receivers are diversity types.

From what I've seen and in my experience, Lectros are probably #1 with Zaxcom coming in a close 2nd. I hve seen mor and more Sennheisers creeping into the arena but everywhere I look I see Lectros!

Yes, Lectrosonic, Zaxcom for properly-budgeted productions, and Sennheiser, et.al. for the budget customers. And Azden for the clueless.

But for "critical recordings, such as one that requires a wireless microphone system with a low noise floor" is required, you would have to be in dire straits to be forced to use ANY wireless system OF ANY COST vs. an ordinary cable. Practically ANY mic cable on the planet sounds better and is FAR MORE RELIABLE than the most expensive and fancy wireless system ever made.

While I agree that a cabled mic is the best option, live TV shows and newscasts seem to do just fine with wireless. I've seen movie productions done here that have used wireless booms when it just wasn't feasible to use a cabled mic.
Wireless isn't as bad as we sometimes make it out to be but again, I agree about using a cabled mic and when I can I do. Unfortunately for me, it just isn't an option as often as I would like.

There is no question that wireless microphones are the ONLY choice for some applications, and excellent options for many others. But an application that requires "a low noise floor" is NEVER a candidate for a wireless microphone. TV news studios and even feature film sets are rarely in need of "a low noise floor". At least from my perspective in location recording classical music.

To be sure, I have various wireless microphones of modest capability (Sennheiser, Sony, etc.) which I use in video production and live sound applications. But I would never use ANY wireless microphone recording a chorus or an orchestra or a piano or a string quartet, etc.

Mr. Kawamoto was not entirely clear exactly what he was asking about, so we are all speculating on what he meant.

Having been out of the broadcast circuit for so long, I was wondering how technology has evolved. Back in the day, we used something similar to the Sony WRR systems and they performed wonderfully, even for musicals. Later, I used Lectrosonics and was happy with it.

Today, however, with the flood of cheaper wireless systems on the market, it's easier to hear artifacts, compander noise, and hiss. Some systems perform better than others.

Sony broadcast now makes 24 bit/48k digital broadcast systems which I heard is as good as cable, but I've never tried one in person.

VideON | Andy Munitz, Sony Training Manager - UWP Series | Pro Audio (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/channels-pro_audio/video-pro_audio_andy_munitz_sony_training_manager_uwp_series/)
Watch the thumbnail "DWX Digital Wireless Microphone System."

I was just curious to know how the upper end wireless systems have progressed since the lower end seemed to have improved quite a bit over the last 3 years or so.

Even if a wireless system had PERFECT (!) performance, it would still be inferior to a cable in terms of reliability.

I agree with Richard. A cables' the best sound/interference-free solution
Lectros be the norm in my neck of the woods., more and more and Zaxcoms are around. Sennheiser G2/3 as well. I have Lectro 211 and 411 systems as well as some G2/3s. When all are set properly (and with an equally good mic) it's hard to tell the difference between them.. at least for dialog. The jingling key test and other HF content audio is a dead give-a-way though. None are fool-proof and subject to occasional hits on the streets of Manhattan (aka, RF hell.)

Hi Warren,

From your last post I really understand where you're coming from. I've been looking around at wireless too, but for some particular applications where cable is just way too inconvenient, unrealistic, or for all intensive purposes, impossible.

A couple thing might help with the inquiry and those are specifications and purpose.

Specifications: Personally, in my limited research, limited because I've got so much higher priority things to work on that selecting a wireless system is really back-burner at the moment, I haven't got around to the specs department. Looking at the Sennheiser web page with regard to lavalier system (Sennheiser EW 100 systems Sennheiser USA - ew 100 G3 Series – Lavalier / Lapel Receiver Transmitter Systems (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/wireless-lavalier-lapel-receiver-transmitter-systems-ew-100-g3)) I haven't yet figured out what system to get but I'm leaning toward the ENG one.

Once I figure out what I need, the next step will be to compare it with the competition, price and specifications. It's very likely that I'll buy used because I'm a hobbyist and, ahem, married (need to watch spending).

The other thing that I'll be considering is my audience. One thing a musician is told is to "Play to the Audience." What this means is, even though the sheet music says one thing, as a musician with an audience, you play what they want to hear. If it is a recital, say, and you're being graded, most likely you're going to play exactly what the sheet music says. If you're playing for dancing you want to keep the beat the same. If you're playing to a audience who just want a good time, you play to make them feel good. This may mean changing the tempo, holding some notes longer, etc.

So, with regard to a wireless setup, I'd think one should look at what the audience is. In the case of buying equipment instead of renting it, the "audience" might be the worst-case scenario, or, if one want's to compromise (we all compromise once in a while, right?), maybe it's the almost-worst-case scenario because you don't want to rent and just use what you have.

Anyway, it really shouldn't make any difference based on your original question, but.... out of curiosity, what kind of things do you want to use a wireless system for?

For me, I want to make videos of individuals playing instruments or, maybe a small group like a duet or so, maybe a vocalist, but for the most part a soloist, and this in a room seating a hundred or so people. The other goal is to make some sailing videos (35ft boat) and cables are not an option.

'Whenever you're able, run a cable'.

Cheers.

Allan - I like it, that has a nice ring to it.
"When you're able, run a cable."

With my instrumentalist project I actually have two plans - one that will use something like a shotgun ME-66 from not too far away, maybe 15 to 20 feet, the other using (and you'll like this) a cable. Yup, good ol' copper wire! However,.....

I've also been thinking about something like the Tascam DR-40 and wondering how that would work when placed on a light stand in front of the instrumentalist.

The other thing I'd like to look into is the whole pathway from the sound source (instrumentalist or vocalist) to the video file and figure out what would provide the best "resolution" and quietest background. I don't have time right now to go into this but it's on my "to-do" list (obviously not on the "honey-do" one!).

"Play to the audience": One plan is for a video here on Vimeo suitable for laptop speakers, another would be for higher quality audio for someone who want's to really hear the nuances of the instrument. I have been looking for other mics that will have audio characteristics more suitable for reed instruments and certain vocals. Obviously I've got a lot of time-consuming research to do. More on this for later.

The Sennheiser G3, Sony UWP-V1, and ATW-1821 wireless mic systems have been great for prosumer/professional work. But what do the big boys use for critical recordings, such as one that requires a wireless microphone system with a low noise floor?

Zaxcom? Lectrosonics?

The main one used in the UK seems to be Audio Ltd. (http://www.audioltd.com/).

Others are: Micron (http://www.micronwireless.co.uk/WirelessPerfection/), Sennheiser 3000 series (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/global_search?q=3000+series) and now there is also Audio Wireless (http://www.audiowireless.co.uk/) started by an ex-Micron guy.

But the best is the new uncompressed digital Sennheiser 9000 series (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/9000-series/), launched at IBC last month.

..
With my instrumentalist project I actually have two plans - one that will use something like a shotgun ME-66 from not too far away, maybe 15 to 20 feet, the other using (and you'll like this) a cable. Yup, good ol' copper wire!....I think you'll find 15 to 20 feet from the subject with a ME-66 is going to sound distant and echo'y, like you're recording from inside a metal culvert.

The main one used in the UK seems to be Audio Ltd. (http://www.audioltd.com/).

Others are: Micron (http://www.micronwireless.co.uk/WirelessPerfection/), Sennheiser 3000 series (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/global_search?q=3000+series) and now there is also Audio Wireless (http://www.audiowireless.co.uk/) started by an ex-Micron guy.

But the best is the new uncompressed digital Sennheiser 9000 series (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/9000-series/), launched at IBC last month.

The best wireless I have heard is the Audio Ltd. 2040, period. It sounds like a wire to me. Here's a link to my audio archive, in which you'll find a folder with 2040 examples.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/71oss4evdwt4omq/fsNv7zIeD9

Audio Ltd has some new relationships in the US. Look for a new Audio Ltd system after the first of the year. Probably around NAB time, that I'm told will be in the $3500 range for a set. Servicing will not require sending the unit to the UK home office, but will be done in the US.

I did hear the Sony digital wireless on the floor at NAB a few years, but I haven't heard too much about them.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hey Ty, those were some neat drop box files.

the AT 2020 does sound, what?, wholesome? Full? pretty nice. The pickled piper picked peppers and sea shells was a good test of the pop filter. I listened to the 416-897SN, SM58 (kind of a standard if it's not a counterfeit one. Heck, maybe the counterfeit ones are becoming a standard???) Was that a straight 58 or the a or the beta?

The AT 2020 USB sounded good, too.

My favorite, and I didn't listen to everything, was the AT 4050ST Stereo Acoustic Git wide with the guitar. It would have been nice to see a picture of the guitar/mic relationship as it was moved around.

I think those who like acoustic guitars, voice, and in my case, accordion (as well), probably tend to be more sensitive to the little nuances in the sound. The take with the acoustic guitar really brings out the nuances.

Maybe that's why I'm more in favor of sub-categories for the "All Things Audio" section. I've been looking at the threads and responses that have been posted, numbers and types, and comparing the Audio category to others on the board and really feel DVinfo is short-changing the audio aspect of video. All these audio clips show how much there is to know and learn.

Thanks John,

Yes, a "regular" SM58 and a real one, I think.

Mics and preamps are like paints and brushes. They combine differently in unexpected ways sometimes and not always for the better.

I have some other samples in my local archive. When I get a mic to review I usually record some samples and keep them in a session. The TLM 67 is one of my favorite mics for studio. I don't have one. I use a U 89i for most of those chores.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Quote from Ty: "Mics and preamps are like paints and brushes. They combine differently in unexpected ways sometimes and not always for the better. "

That's very true. One of the things I want to do is examine the whole route from the sound source to the video file where the audio is recorded. Look at what I want to capture from the sound source (plain voice talking would be different from, say, acoustic guitar, accordion, piano, etc.), then continue the path to where the audio is recorded looking at cables, pre-amps, etc. Some situations one wants the background noise very quiet, other situations it doesn't really matter, like a video of, say, a motorcycle race.

Probably should also add to the above: audio file format and "stuff" like that.

A few days ago I came across an acoustic guitar web site and they are really into mics and their nuances. This has been very helpful and a good learning experience. Of course, they also talk about mics for vocals, too.

"A few days ago I came across an acoustic guitar web site and they are really into mics and their nuances. This has been very helpful and a good learning experience. Of course, they also talk about mics for vocals, too."

The Acoustic Guitar Forum is a good one. I hang there because I'm a fingerstyle guitar player.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty, re: "The Acoustic Guitar Forum is a good one. I hang there because I'm a fingerstyle guitar player."

If that was you playing, and it probably was, you're a pretty dang good guitar player. I'm impressed!

Back when I was 15, I started playing the guitar and was getting along learning the cords, etc., got "I Walk The Line" down pretty good and a few others. Then at 17 I had a summer job as a carpenter aprentist I managed to cut the very tips of all the fingers off on the left hand with a Skill saw. I was cutting a sheet of plywood on a pair of saw horses and near the end of the cut the plywood sagged, the blade bound, then the saw kicked back.With no sensitivity or callous tips that kinda ended playing for awhile.

The following summer, same construction job (building a complex of doctors offices next door to the County Hospital, I managed to clip every finger tip on the right hand using a table saw. This time it was using a plywood triangle to cut a 45-degree piece and something similar happend, it kicked back.

About 15 years later I finally got back to playing an instrument but this time it was the piano. Callous' not required and finger sensitivity had partially returned. Keys aren't as hard on the finger tips.

Acoustic guitar generally has a really nice sound to it, and this was especially evident when you were micing it the way you did.

"You done good!"

John,

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! My deepest sympathies.

Yes, piano, but you could also make a good slide guitar or pedal steel player.

One of my favorite slide players is Robert Randolph and the Family Band.
Robert Randolph - Ain't Nothing Wrong With That - YouTube

There's also lots of Nashville and West Coast slide player who are more traditional.

Yes, that's me playing, thanks. This link has been up a while.
"Look Ma, I'm Flyin'" - YouTube

One mic can do a lot.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Ty,

Poor Warren Kawamoto, looks like we kinda got his thread sidetracked a little bit, but he's always welcome to jump back in and take control of the conversation and get things back on track.

Bottom video: "Look Ma, I'm Flyin' " Some really nice fingering, and I especially liked the beginning and the end parts.Very delicate.

I was looking for the mic and was that little "lump" on the armrest the mic?

At the moment I've got a number of other brush fires to fight and I'm getting badgered to get OFF the Internet.

Warren,

Yep. That's the Schoeps cmc641. I have a Countryman E6 on my ear for the few words I say.

I shot that right from a Canon XL2 and into a mac laptop into Quicktime back then.

Turned out pretty good! I added reverb (and a phaser during the C part) in post.

Regards,

Ty

Ty that's beautifully clean audio, and a great piece of guitar playing. How nice to have that sort of tallent.

Thank you Trevor.

I've been "learning to play" since 1964. The room is the studio in my house. I bought the house because of this room. It's the lower level of a rancher; 7/8ths below ground at the end of two quiet suburban streets. It's ear wiggy quiet in two areas and really quiet in the rest of the space. Only an 8 foot ceiling, but I can get a lot done down there.

Here's a duo in the same space, about six feet from the the couch I was sitting on. I recorded everything with only two mics and added a touch of reverb. The point being, room acoustics are pretty important.

Rabbi Shuviel Ma'aravi sings El Dio Alto - YouTube

Regards,

Ty

Poor Warren Kawamoto, looks like we kinda got his thread sidetracked a little bit, but he's always welcome to jump back in and take control of the conversation and get things back on track.


Thanks for the entertainment! No problem sidetracking, I always love to see projects that are done right. The previous posts provided excellent material to work with, so I'm very happy!