Let me start by saying that I do most of my editing on my PC desktop machine, so I'm not looking for a replacement.

What I am looking for is an option to do some work when I'm away from home and the occasional on-location work.

I'm looking at the new Thinkpad T430u, it's a nice ultrabook with 2 USB 3.0 i/o ports only. The plan would be to keep the boot drive a small but fast SSD, and just run all media off an external drive. But is USB suitable for video editing? It's faster then Firewire, but I heard something about it only being able to send data in "packets", making it not so good for video editing?

If this is the case, then are all ultrabooks out of the question? None that I have seen have Firewire and none have ExpressCard slots for adding it.

No one has an opinion on USB 3.0 as an option for video editing from an external drive?

USB 3.0 works fine for me. I don't know what other storage options you're considering, but the field seems to be narrowing as fewer laptops come with firewire 400 ports, and PCMCIA or Express Card slots are also getting scarce. With those card slots, you could get firewire 400/800 and eSATA ports if you're machine didn't come with them. My main editing machine has 5 USB ports, 2 of which are also USB 3.0. It also has eSATA, but I haven't seen a portable HDD to use with it and I don't like the rigid cable it uses. I do have a minor problem with my USB 3.0 ports occasionally breaking connection. Not a big deal except most of my 1TB WD HDDs are password protected and once the connection breaks, I have to re-enter the password to get it going again. There is just too much slop in the connection and if the cable gets pulled sideways too much it disconnects. I don't know if it's an issue with the Sager laptop or the cables or just the way the USB 3.0 connection works.

When choosing your SSD size, make sure to leave plenty of room for the OS and your programs. I got a 600GB SSD and it's sufficient for now. I'm editing on Sony Vegas Pro 11, but have Adobe Production Premium CSS 6 loaded as well.

I think USB 3.0 is currently the best option for portable storage.

Mark

I just want to make sure you are not making a distinction between "storage" and an active drive for editing directly off of. For simple storage of inactive projects, who cares, but how about editing projects directly off one?

This would be similar to what I do on my desktop, which has only a 128GB bootdrive, with sufficient room from programs. Media does not live on this drive, but rather on separate internal drives (1TB WD blacks). I then store completed projects on an external USB 3.0 drive (though I don't really edit off it.)

My laptop will have a fairly small SSD boot drive, meaning I must edit off of external drives exclusively. I'm hearing mixed reviews on USB 3.0 being capable of this. Speedwise, it looks like it should be fine, but what about this possible issue with "data packets?" It sounds like it can't send date back and forth simultaneously.

i cut 4k R3Ds via USB 3.0 on my laptop, not the best setup, and not in full rez, but it works OK, 1080 footage editing via USB 3.0 is totally fine (MXF 35mbs, DSLR MOVs) on desktop and mobile, especially if you have decent laptop ,mine has i7, 2Gb graphics, 12Gb RAM, SSD drive

wow, I've done some searching on the net and there really seems to be no consensus on this issue. The exact same question seems to have been brought up on a number of forums almost always with the same answer ranging from "...I used it in this particular set up and it seemed, ok" to "we'll have to wait and see if it sending data in bursts is a problem?"

Well, USB 3.0 has been out for some time now. PC's don't universally support firewire or eSATA (especially in a laptop), and it looks like USB 3.0 is the direction that they are going in. Frankly as long as it performs better then Firewire, I'm ok with it, because I have no issue with it's speed. However, if it performs worse, then I know to look somewhere else.

Also, worth throwing out there, it seems like in the realm of such high transfer speeds as USB 3.0 or say thunderbolt, the precise speed is inconsequential for a non-raid mechanical drive, because they both exceed the speed of the physical drive itself.

Granted this changes if your using a SSD or a raid. But still, this does not address the issue of whether data bursts is an issue or not.

I found this video which says that there are a few different "modes" for USB 3.0 implementation. It looks like some might better then others for video editing (UASP mode, seems to support the best performance for smaller back and forth data transfer).

Unfortunately, your it is up to you motherboard to support these different modes, and for UASP, both your motherboard and the device must support these modes.

Anyway, here's the link:

USB3 Transfer Modes Compared & Explained Bot Mode, Turbo Mode & UASP Mode NCIX Tech Tips - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iJc7eT-rw4o#)!

I have four WD My Book USB3 externals totalling 6Tb and they are almost as fast as me single drive SATA internals. I have used one of them in an NLE workflow, but not as a source drive. I guess if it was not compressed you could get away with it, but I'm thinking that AVCHD or H.264 1080 would not let you smoothly scrub the timeline with Premiere Pro using such a drive. I have no experience with other NLEs

As an addendum to this, when I first built my current system, I tried to get away with a 1st gen Velociraptor as the source drive (DSLR H.264) and suffered from a jerky timeline. Getting a second identical drive in raid 0 fixed things up. As it happens, one of those v'raptors died on me (they are 'supposed' to be one of the most reliable HDDs out there) and as a raid 0 that data was non-recoverable. There was hundreds of hours of work on that drive, so I was thankful I'd invested in Shadow Protect which does 15 minute updates in the background. I also had a straight back up, but that was nearly a week old when the drive failed.

I didn't feel able to trust either of those first v.raptors, so got two new 2nd gen 600Gb v'raptors for a raid 0 project drive.

I also have a USB3 500Gb pocket drive which is as fast as the WD My Books and great for moving large amounts of data between (non-networked) systems. USB3 is great, but not that great.

Trevor. Thanks. This is what I was worrying about. Frankly, this sucks.

Most PC laptops don't have firewire. All macbooks do. No PC laptops have thunderbolt. New macbooks do (hell, even the macbook air has thunderbolt.) Very few PC laptops have eSATA, and though macbooks don't either, I've never used that interface because it's not terribly common.

Why is it that I could buy the lowest end macbook and be up and running editing video, when I have to search long and hard for a PC laptop that isn't going to cause me problems? Apple is one company, and they mange to get so much right, why can't any of the handful of PC manufactures manage to do the same?

Sorry about the PC vs. Mac rant, I just want to get a new PC laptop, and USB 3.0 being the "latest and greatest" when it sounds like it will be a worse option then Firewire. That technology is over 10 years old!

I just did a quick web search; apparently Thunderbolt equipped notebooks are out there.

If this is the case, then are all ultrabooks out of the question? None that I have seen have Firewire and none have ExpressCard slots for adding it.

I would worry about using a 14" monitor with a resolution of 1366 x 768 for editing. I formerly used an 18.4" 1080p laptop and I still found it small!

Regarding USB 3.0. Data is always sent in blocks or packets - that really has nothing to do with anything that might concern video editors - who are not a demanding lot technically. Compared to server architecture and database management, etc. video editing is child's play.

According to what has been tested, USB 3.0 is at least capable of 2.5 Gbps sequential (about 300 MB/s) - that's two Red Epic 5K streams of data throughput.

I wouldn't use either USB or Thunderbolt for editing large chunks of data. If you are really worried about reaching data rates that touch 5 or 10 Gbps, then you should be seriously considering 10 gigabit Ethernet (not cheap) to string your drives, preferably over fiber. This is not something that laptops can do. The weakest link in a laptop is the motherboard.

If you're lucky, a good platter hard drive might be able to sustain 125 MB/s (1 Gbps). Three of these in RAID will push USB 3.0 to the max. Seven of these will push Thunderbolt, but then again, you will be using 10 GbE by that point. And you'll be worrying more about your SATA 6 Gbps bottleneck.

If you don't have the money, and you want to remain as 'universal' as possible, stick to USB 3.0. Both macs and PCs have that.

One brand I've consistently used over the last five years is Acer. Not only are they the cheapest, but also the most feature packed. If you have to stick to ultrabooks, you can edit in lower rez or proxies anyway, and you'll barely even need USB 2.0 speeds (remember 2 years ago everyone made do without USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt).

Hope this helps.

Shem, looks like your right, thunderbolt on PC laptops are trickling in. And in the Thinkpad line from Lenovo no less (my personal preference) with the ThinkPad Edge S430 (USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt, discreet NVIDIA GeForce graphics, and a 1600x900 display!)

Sareesh, see this is why I'm getting all worked up, because of the back and forth information on USB 3 as a viable interface for video. My wallet and my emotions can only handle so much!

For starters, I do most of my editing from my desktop - dual display, Intel i7 processor, 12GB ram, NVIDIA Quardo FX graphics. I want a laptop for portable flexibility, not as a desktop replacement.

I know I'm going to make some performance concessions (I want to spend in the $700-$1000 range.) I just don't want the bottleneck to begin at the source. I had suspected that the speed issues might be largely moot because we're in the range of are overkill anyways. It's the data packet bursts that bother me. Doesn't video and (simple) motion graphics involve significant back and forth communication?

by the way, here is a link to a review of the ThinkPad Edge S430, which is not available yet. It has both thunderbolt and usb 3. Looks like it will be in the sub $1000.

Review Lenovo ThinkPad Edge S430 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-ThinkPad-Edge-S430-Notebook.80017.0.html)

I just finished customizing a T430S on lenovo.com after chatting with a representative. Someone with more knowledge please confirm these things below - there is no clear info on the site (only the kind of verbiage that says "depending on model")... I am not familiar with IBM/Lenovo laptops...

Thunderbolt - only if Windows 7 Professional is chosen for OS (can be used to connect storage devices OR as DisplayPort?)
Two USB 3.0 ports
Two additional bays for hard drives - can't find any info on this
Optional DVD burner - is Bluray burner available? Website did not give me the option.
1600x900 pixel 14" HD+ display

Reviews note "dull" colors - not an issue for me, I need this mainly for capturing live video via Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle.

Thank you,

Thunderbolt - only if Windows 7 Professional is chosen for OS (can be used to connect storage devices OR as DisplayPort?)


Just a guess, but I'm thinking the thunderbolt port needs to be connected to a graphics card for it to work as a Displayport. The detailed specifications on the mobo should tell you whether it is the case.

Sareesh, see this is why I'm getting all worked up, because of the back and forth information on USB 3 as a viable interface for video. My wallet and my emotions can only handle so much!


I don't understand. USB 3 will be available on ALL new systems, so it's not like you have to go out of your way to get it.

Whether to get thunderbolt or not, maybe that's the question. If so, take a look at one test here: AnandTech - Thunderbolt (http://www.anandtech.com/tag/Thunderbolt/2)

It shows only a 200 MB/s transfer speed, which is about 1.6 Gbps. Even with SSDs you'll still be within the limits of USB 3, let alone need thunderbolt. And if you already have a desktop machine then I'm assuming you won't be connecting any large Raid arrays to it.

When you do require higher sequential transfers than what USB 3 allows, you'll find that your laptop will be the bottleneck.

Sareesh, sorry the question was not whether I or not I should get USB 3.0 or not, I understand it will be pretty universal soon, it's whether for the purpose of video editing (and specifically editing off and external drive from a laptop) it's viable enough to rely on exclusively. If so, all is good. Almost any new laptop will be USB 3.0 equipped. If not, then I either have to wait for thunderbolt enabled pc laptops to come out, or look backwards towards Firewire.

The consensus seems to be that transfer speed alone, USB 3 is quite enough. Thunderbolt might be faster, but rarely will that upper threshold be utilized. The question remains on how that data is transferred. I'm no expert on the subject, but I do think that video editing is somewhat unique to general computing file transfer, with video playing back and forth quickly, effects being rendered, changing parameters as a video plays, etc. This is where the concern over USB 3 and the way it transfers date in packets or burst might be an issue. Or it might not be. I don't know

The question remains on how that data is transferred. I'm no expert on the subject, but I do think that video editing is somewhat unique to general computing file transfer, with video playing back and forth quickly, effects being rendered, changing parameters as a video plays, etc. This is where the concern over USB 3 and the way it transfers date in packets or burst might be an issue. Or it might not be. I don't know

Your footage is never changed by the NLE. It is only Read. The file transfer is mostly in one direction. This type of transfer is called a sequential transfer (large chunks of data being transported).

Right now, the most 'used' codec is Prores or DNxHD, which in HQ mode has a bit rate of 220 Mbps, or 27.5 MB/s. Even 'normal' 7,200 rpm drives can read at least 3 or 4 of these streams, and this is still way under the limit of USB 3.0.

This 'source footage' drive will never have to deal with small reads and writes. USB 3.0 is A-okay.

Regarding effects, playback, and everything else an NLE does - it does it with RAM and the Cache/Page/Temp drive (which is typically connected via SATA II/III on small end machines). A small SSD drive is perfect for this.

This is why I recommend a laptop with two drives at least - one for OS and the NLE, and the second for your temp drive. The footage is connected via USB 3.0, and a second USB 3.0 port can be utlized for render drives, etc. Four drive setup.

Hope this helps.

Denez, I think you might be over thinking this a bit. As Sareesh stated, USB 3.0 is way more capable than a single drive. Unless you are editing true uncompressed files then you will be fine.

What kind of footage do you edit? To give a comparison for you, I can edit 50mbps Nanoflash footage straight from the compact Flash card! That is over USB 2.0 on my laptop using Edius and putting color correction filters on to boot.

The numbers will set you free. Video editing streams are not very intensive for modern hard drives. Most times RAID is not needed. The 50mbps footage I mentioned equates to ~5 megabyes a second transfer speed. USB 2.0 can handle around 30 megabytes per second. USB 3 is a lot faster than USB 2...

CPU speed is the most important part of video editing.

This is all super helpful, guys. Thanks. You've set my mind at ease as far as my original concern goes.

It looks like I'm going to go with the Thinkpad Edge s430. USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt means that I'll be compatible with more drives (with a firewire to Thunderbolt adapter, I should be all set.) 1600 x 900 screen resolution is should be great, dedicated Nvidia graphics, and a 128GB solid state drive. I would settle for the i5 processor, but it looks like the i7 is required for the Thunderbolt according to Lenovo site, so it looks like I'll have to spend a little more money but will have get a better processor also.

Sareesh, what a great website you've got. I'll be checking it more often!

Thank you, Denez! Appreciate it.