If you're looking for our new forum for the Canon HD camera, it's located here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=101

It doesn't really belong in this section, so it's stuck in another category for now.

Aha, if you look at the pics from Amsterdam, notice how thick the "neck" of the viewfinder is... Dammit, finally a BIG flip out eyepiece to reveal a serious LCD?

Thank you Canon.

I might come back now after 4 years...

It doesn't really belong in this section, so it's stuck in another category for now.

Why not? It's an HDV camera.

Why not? It's an HDV camera.

The majority of people who choose the XL H1 are *not* going to use it to record HDV. They'll use it as a camera head for uncompressed HD video out through HD-SDI, which is the biggest, single most important feature on the XL H1. The HDV tape transport is almost like an afterthought, an "it's there if you need it" kind of thing.

The majority of people who choose the XL H1 are *not* going to use it to record HDV.

Actually Chris, I respectfully disagree with you on that point.

I think many people will use the HDV recording options when they sit down with the machine and do comparisons... especially at the beginning. The overhead involved in working the HD-SDI will be very large, and until there are relatively cheap hardware solutions for portably storing the HD-SDI most in-the-field work on the camera will probably be HDV.

Suppose a $2000-$3000 product came out that was portable and captured both HD-SDI and analog component input at the flick of a switch? The differences between the XL H1 and the current crop of HDV camcorders would be a lot smaller.

Furthermore, for adopters of the XL H1 that seek to use it's HDV capability, this forum would be a particularly fine resource for them. I think it would be appropriate for the XL H1 to lie in the HDV forum, with a sub-forum devoted to the HD-SDI workflow.

-Steve

Points well taken, Steve, thanks for that.

There will be some general re-organization around here shortly... I'm still somewhat unsure where to categorize the Panasonic HVX200, as it is most definitely not HDV... what we might do is rearrange the boards with a broad section for "HD under $10K" and put all HDV cameras, the Canon H1 and Panasonic P2 within. Although P2 might rate its own area as more hardware is announced. It's a confusing situation, how best to organize and categorize things on our main index page.

I for one would use it for HDV as well as SDI output. I do a wide range of video production even down to wedding videos. It makes money on the weekends so I haven't given it up yet. Clearly I would use the XLH1 for HDV recording just like any other HDV camera for weddings, performances, bar.bat mitzvahs, and sporting events. The SDI side will be for my studio for commercials, music videos, and working on my film projects.

While the price is a little on the high side it is still a HDV camera with only an added bonus of having SDI. If the SDI port wasn't there it would still be a HDV camera.

Since CANON is a member of the HDV group the XLH1 should be in the HDV section of the forum.

... what we might do is rearrange the boards with a broad section for "HD under $10K" and put all HDV cameras, the Canon H1 and Panasonic P2 within. Although P2 might rate its own area as more hardware is announced.

Sounds like a good idea to me as I think a lot of people are going to be using the camera solely with HDV.

I'm still somewhat unsure where to categorize the Panasonic HVX200, as it is most definitely not HDV... what we might do is rearrange the boards with a broad section for "HD under $10K" and put all HDV cameras, the Canon H1 and Panasonic P2 within.
I'd vote for that. The HVX isn't HDV, but it's still an under-$10,000 camera and I think that customers who are considering an under-$10k camera are going to evaluate all of them. I also expect that a whole lot of people may be using the HVX without P2 (meaning a FireStore or direct streaming to a computer) so the P2 differentiation may not be that significant.

I think it'd be reasonable to group them all under such a category -- so you have DV cameras, and "affordable" high-def cameras as two different categories, yes?

Points well taken, Steve, thanks for that.

There will be some general re-organization around here shortly... I'm still somewhat unsure where to categorize the Panasonic HVX200, as it is most definitely not HDV... what we might do is rearrange the boards with a broad section for "HD under $10K" and put all HDV cameras, the Canon H1 and Panasonic P2 within. Although P2 might rate its own area as more hardware is announced. It's a confusing situation, how best to organize and categorize things on our main index page.

How about just forming a camera section called "Beyond DV Resolution". This would allow for all the different incarnations of HDV and HD. It would be, how shall I say it, "format agnostic". :-)

-gb-

I for one disagree with merging different formats into an "under 10K camcorder" heading. Mainly because I think that there are specific factors associated with shooting HDV (mainly to do with the Long GOP MPEG 2 structure) that will be common to many of these cameras. Although my interest is mainly in the Z1, I'm also interested in similar cameras.

I know people have complained that it makes it look like a special case, but i think it best that the HVX just gets left outside, maybe in a DVCpro forum (which could also include the DVCpro25 and DVCpro50 SD cams only cams).

I know people have complained that it makes it look like a special case, but i think it best that the HVX just gets left outside, maybe in a DVCpro forum (which could also include the DVCpro25 and DVCpro50 SD cams only cams).

The basic aim of all these cameras is the same - to record HD cheaply. To quote Bob Dylan, "the times they are a' changin," and we are no longer limited to one low end recording format as with DV. What is important is the final product we can produce with these cameras for a particular budget.

There are sooooo many recording options now, that the only way to really separate the cameras is by price range, there are too many other marginal classifications. For example the Canon XL-H1 is an HDV camera despite the fact that some users will NEVER use the HDV encoder; the HVX is P2 and some users will never buy a P2 card. The common factor to everyone is the price.

I for one disagree with merging different formats into an "under 10K camcorder" heading.

Honestly I can't see what difference it makes. All the cameras will still have their own dedicated forums. Chris is just talking about how to group these forums together into broader categories and it makes sense to limit the number of these.

I also think there just should be a HD-board, with ALL the HD and HDV cams in there. Now I think it's a little bit confusing (well, in the start it was)

The basic aim of all these cameras is the same - to record HD cheaply. The common factor to everyone is the price.

Well sorta... but the real common factor is to record HD - regardless of the flavour. None of 'em will record above 1080 nor below 720, whether that's implemented by the manufacturer as interlaced or progressive and indipendent of the encoding format.

I thought that was what those of us who have already purchased a HD/HDV camcorder were looking for - the ability to shoot either 720 or 1080 imagery. It's always nice to see what's developing within the field: new cameras, variations that raise the bar and options that enhance useability comparative to currently available options.

It was, and still is my understanding that all of these cameras are generically HD capable camcorders, and until the output frame size goes beyond the current 1080 dimensions, that's what they'll remain.

Fracturing the options into various threads may just enhance the already chaotic interpretation many 'newbies' have about HD, let alone HDV...