Then you need to close down your iris as much as possible to increase the depth of field, or use a small sensor handicam.

Then you need to close down your iris as much as possible to increase the depth of field, or use a small sensor handicam.

I'm renting the VG30 so it sounds like this camera is a good candidate then?

I don't have that camera so can't give you teh right advise, important is that there is the possibility to lock the iris so you can control you dof. I"m guessing this camera will automatically crank up the iso to compensate, not sure how noisy the footage will become depending on how much light you have on stage.

Just tested VG20 with the Shuttle 2. Work flow was 1) shot in compressed Quictime file on Shuttle 2 with camera set at 24p,
2) convert to Cineform to remove pulldown

3) Edit and add levels and sharpness in Vegas.

4) Rendered to Mainconcept MP4 for upload to Vimeo

Comments:

a.) Stobing look in corner of water close to camera was actually visible to naked eye. I wondered if camera would record it, and it did faithfully.

b.) probably added too much sharpness, which created a bit strobing on panning shot.

c.) Download file for better look.



Black Magic Shuttle Test Shots on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/50115705)

Hi I'm new here and like what you have done with this video, except maybe a little too much sharpness, that you mention. I have a vg20 I also use Adobe PPro CS5.5, how could I convert to pulldown, don't understand pulldown, where do you get cineform? Is there somewhere I cn learn about this process?

Leon

Cineform is a product now bought out by GoPro, and has both free version and purchase versions. I use the paid version for higher capabilities, but even with the in camera codec you can use Cineform free Studio Version. CineForm Studio: Software Download (http://gopro.com/3d-cineform-studio-software-download/).

Pull down is simply a treatment given to 24p footage to make it compatible with 60i only codecs. ACVHD original codec was only 60i but recent changes may eliminate that problem. However the HDMI out of most cameras has pulldown inserted for it to play properly on TV. The HDMI signal is also standard 60i, though that may have changed, depending on the device. The Shuttle only has HDMI out, with HDMI signals that have pull down inserted, even for cameras set at 24p. Thus, for efficient editing, I remove pulldown in conversion with Cineform.

.., don't understand pulldown, ..
Leon

Pulldown is needed to play 24p on a normal TV that refreshes its display 60 times sec. You can`t divide 60 by 24 and get an integer answer. So 2:3 pulldown plays the 1st frame 2 times the next 3 times then the next 2 times etc. So you get odd frames played twice and even frames played 3 times. 12x2= 24 and 12x3=36 making 60. A simple answer but you get the idea so that there is a frame for each refresh of the TV screen. From this of course you realize that its not really possible to see true 24p on a normal 60hz refresh display as there must always be pulldown giving the film look cadence one is used to seeing. To see true 24p one needs a TV refresh rate a multiple of 24 so that a 120hz TV etc fundamentally could playback 24p the equivalent of a film projector with a 5 blade shutter, plays each frame 5 times. In practice this is normally a BLuray playback over HDMI to a 120hz refresh or equivalent display that can configure to play 24p truly like a film projector.

Ron Evans

So do the new camcorders VG20, VG30, have to have the pulldown removed? All I know is that I want the best looking video, not to crazy about film look, very sharp, smooth looking pans both horizontal and vertical, and as high as MBPS as possible so as to be able to make changes in post, with out a lot of problems.

I love the way the video looks on the JVC GYHM600, not sure how it was shot. Is it a big deal not having AVCHD in 1080P @60P? What I loved about the JVC Cam is how incredible it looked even under Vimeos compression. Is there a big difference between 1080p @ 30fps and 1280x720P @ 60P?

I shoot a little of everything right now. My client base is small business where most of the video winds up on the Net. and a few being on DVD's and maybe some cable commercials, No broadcast.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, trying to learn and see if the VG30 is what I should get or a 3 chip cam like the GYHM-600. It's getting real hard figuring out what to get, I'm also really thinking about the new Panny GH3.
Just not sure about the small sensor, GeeeeeZe its hard to figure.

No, pull down is added to the HDMI signal to make it HDMI compliant. That is standard practice for most cameras with HDMI out. Shuttle is an HDMI recorder, thus records 24p material with pull down added to make it compliant.

Thanks Chris. Black water is getting clearer!

Just thought I'd mention that I've had the VG30 for a few days now and am very happy with it. As a reference point, I've been using the VG20 and had been happy with that too.

However the OLED VF is a huge improvement IMO. It's something that should be implemented on every camcorder as far as I'm concerned. You become far more involved in the shooting 'experience' and less a 'bystander' to the action. You can also gauge both focus (without assist) and color better than a traditional VF.

The zoom lens and rocker is a nice addition, but one note here. Some of you may have read that the VG30/900 incorporates a 'lossless' 2X conversion. It doesn't. Although it is much better than some digital doublers I've seen, you can see some degree of loss. It is a nice addition though and with caution it can be used effectively. Having the ability to use fixed focal length lenses and make a psuedo zoom out of them, is very nice.

The addition of a far better suite of color controls is welcome. Having a dedicated WB button and the ability to change color in different channels as well as a direct access to color temperature, is a nice improvement over the VG20 too. But alas, no means of controlling saturation, contrast etc. I don't find the preset profiles to be very interesting (toy etc.)

As for PQ, there isn't really a significant change. I do notice that WB is much better in auto when shooting indoors. You tend not to get that traditional oversaturation that's so common under those conditions. Of course MWB is always there, but if you're really doing a run n gun, it's nice that auto works somewhat better.

Haven't really done much shooting with it yet, but I do think it's a worthwhile change from the VG20.