Hi all,
I just bought an EX-3 for filming wildlife & will use it a lot with 35mm lens'. So far i am really loving the camera, but with the crop factor of the small sensor on these lens' my tripod is showing signs of not being up to snuff. Currently i am using a Miller DS10 head on the solo CF sticks. With my (currently) longest lens of 300mm (1620mm) i am struggling to get useable shots when slow panning, especially when i am having to focus at the same time. It is very close, & maybe with a bit more practice i could get it better, but i don't think i will ultimately achieve the results i am after with this setup. Ultimately i would like to use lens' up to 400mm so the tripod will need to be even better.
My question is, is anyone out there using a 75mm ball head tripod with long lens' & getting good results? Would a new head like the Miller Compass 20, or the Sachtler FSB-8, or Vinten Vision Blue 5, all 75mm ball heads get me the results i am after? If necessary, i guess i will need to step up to a 100mm system, it's just that i'm trying to avoid spending too much if it's at all possible.
Regards,
Bryce

Hi Bryce,
I use the Ex3 with a Nikon 400mm 3.5 and 600mm 5.6 with some of the heads you mentioned and I too, found it difficult to get smooth pans. Even some 100mm heads were not as smooth as it'd like. Then I purchased a used Sachtler 18II and it was like night and day. Following high-speed ferrys on a river a half mile away (filling the frame) and able to track as smooth as glass,

So, in my opinion, it's not just the ball size, but the amount of balancing and counter balance the head will allow to compensate for the lens weight and then, of course, the actual fluid dampening the head will provide.

A tripod is one of the most important investments you can make, as a good one will last way longer than any camera purchase.

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the response. Great advice. I am hoping that i can get away with using my Solo CF sticks, but they are only 75mm & i think in reality i will need to step up to a 100mm head. That is unless someone here can say for sure that a certain 75mm head will do what i need it to do.

Regards,
Bryce

The Solo sticks are great lightweight legs and remarkably stable for a single tube leg. But single tube legs don't have as much resistance to twisting as most broader twin leg designs. For long lens work the bigger and heavier the tripod the better generally.

Do you have a reinforcing base plate for your EX3? The standard base plate of the EX3 is not the strongest or most stable of designs. A good reinforcing plate like the ones produced by DM accessories is essential to get the best stability out of an EX3 in my opinion. It can make quite a difference to a long shot.

There are good and bad 75mm bowl supports - I've always worked on the principle it's the tripod and the head - and the bowl itself is not the weak point. After all, you can get reducers for 100mm bowls so you can use 75mm fitted heads, and once tightened, have very little, if any, impact on the performance. A rubbish head fitted to a 100mm bowl will still be a rubbish head.

Hi Alistair,
Thanks for the response. Yes i have the DM plate you speak of & i can certainly see how it would make a big difference. Yes the solo legs are very flexible in their design & i love the way the go so low. I generally only use them with the first stage out, so i have the thickest part of the legs extended. When the lower leg section is fully extended, there is a noticeable amount of wind-up, but normally i only need to extend the lower sections if i am on very steep terrain & have one or two of them extended to get the tripod closer to level.

Regards,
Bryce

Hi Paul,
Yes i totally agree. The heads i mentioned are from what i have researched, all very good heads. I am sure there are others, but that was just three that stood out. What i am very curious to know though, is would any of these heads get me the results i am after with a 300 or even 400mm lens? If they don't, then i am wondering what i need to step up to, to get those results. Others have mentioned the Miller Arrow 25 being a very good setup for the money. Are there any others that would work at a reasonable price if the original 75mm heads i mentioned won't?

Regards,

Bryce

Hi Bryce,
Of the systems mentioned the only one I have even briefly tested is the Vision Blue (15 minutes with the Vision Blue Tripod sticks & heads) and it was very difficult to pan with a 300 mm lens on an EX3.
I have found it useful to consider the pan handle itself as it is the handle that transmits vibrations from the user to the rest of the set-up. Using a rubber band to drag the handle can reduce the transmitted vibrations. I prefer to extend the handle with a suitable extension spring. An advantage of a spring or rubber band is that drag can be reduced. Less drag means less applied torque and therefore less wind up of the legs.

Hi Alastair,
Great point. I was also thinking about trying to find a rubber balloon or something that i could roll onto the end of the pan handle in the fashion of well, you know what i mean. I was thinking i might then be able to pan & tilt without transmitting too much vibration like you mentioned. Haven't tried yet, but maybe i should. The other thing is the amount of movement transmitted from my left hand where i am adjusting focus. I have a follow focus that i used on my old camera that i will need to get some lens gears for, but was thinking that may also reduce the amount of vibration??
Does anyone have any thoughts on the Vinten Vision 11 & 12 heads? There are a couple going on Ebay at the moment, not sure though if this is the right tripod system.

Regards,
Bryce

Hi Bryce,
Movements caused by focussing are a problem, especially when something interesting or exciting is happening. I have made a simple motorized focusing system for my Panasonic TM 900 and it works very well with this camera’s blue focus assist. It consists of 1 AA cell, a 3 position switch, pulley and “O” ring drive, and a small geared motor, total cost ~ $20. The control switch and battery are attached to the end of a flexible lead. However my f4 300 mm Nikon lens and EX3 is a different problem. I have used it for small birds and at a range around 10 m to change focus by a few cms requires a miniscule movement of the lens barrel. I will need a different approach and I am considering a system where the motor runs only briefly with every press of the switch. I will be able to adjust both the running time and the running speed and therefore the amount of lens barrel rotation i.e. a sort adjustable stepping motor. The plan is to set the size of the steps to suit the occasion.

Hi Alastair,
Ok, so it sounds like i'm not the only one with this problem atleast! Have you tried a whip on a follow focus? I might try that as well, since i should get better separation than just the standard follow focus.
Ultimately, the more i think about it the more i am thinking i will have to invest in a more substantial tripod system. That is of course unless someone here can suggest something else.

Regards,
Bryce

You must consider that 300mm on an EX3 is a very long focal length. When I shoot air shows we use fujinon HJ40x10 lenses giving us 400mm focal lengths (on a 2/3" camera). To get stable shots we have to go up to a O'Connor 2575 with a Mitchell base and some Ronford Baker or Vinten flat top legs. The lens and camera are supported in a cradle that helps ensure that the lens can't flex relative to the camera. Long lens work is very unforgiving and you can't skimp on the tripod.

The Vinten 10 head is a nice head. They normally last for years but an older head may need re-greasing and a service for best results. It is moderately heavy which is good when you doing long lens work. If you can find a Vinten 100 it is a similar size to the 10 but has a more sophisticated and smoother drag system.

Hi
If you buy a Sachtler you will have a tripod for lifetime. A 18 head will do the great pans but probably you will get along with a FSB4 head too - I am considering one for my dslr.

Thank you to everyone for all the feedback on this subject. I have just weighed the camera with some of the lens' i have, & with the 200mm F4 for instance the weight is 9 1/2 pounds. With the 300mm it is 10 pounds. So the whole rig is quite light. Looking at the specs for the Vision 100 head for example, it looks like the camera will be a bit light to be able to balance it properly. Are there any other heads anyone would recommend that would balance the camera better with such a low weight? I see that the Sachtler 18 mentioned earlier by Chuck has a payload rating from 4 pounds all the way up to 40. Or the Miller Compass 25 which has a payload range of 8.8 pounds to just under 31 pounds. Would a head like either of these be the best option? Realistically, i would like to get the best head for the least amount of money possible. That may mean buying 2nd hand & i don't mind that. In the end i just want to make sure that what ever i invest in, will do the job.
Regards,
Bryce

Ok, well i'm thinking more & more that i need to look at a 100mm ball head tripod. There are a few that i have in mind but would like feedback on any that people here have used.
First is a Vinten vision 10 that is second hand. I have attached a couple of photos of that one. Would this be any good? Also i am looking for a Sachtler 18 second hand. Sounds like if i can pick one of these up second hand i would be getting myself a really good head. I am also still not ruling out something like the Miller Compass 25. Does anyone have any experience with that head & long lens'? There is also a Cartoni system here: Cartoni F132 FocusHD ENG CF 2 System F132 B&H Photo Video
that may or may not be any good. The price is certainly right, but there's not much in the way of reviews on it. Certainly the weight alone makes it attractive for hiking with!

Thanks in advance,
Bryce

That's a very old Vinten 10 head. It could be over 20 years old. It's missing the knob from the lock for the quick release plate. IF it's been well looked after and serviced properly it should still be a good head, but it is an old one. Newer ones have different knobs and a few external cosmetic changes, but the internal bits are the same. The legs look like the original alloy legs with a rotating locking knob. Check the rear of the plastic parts of the leg locks for hairline cracks. The legs will still lock if cracked but are not as secure as they should be.

Excellent advice thank you Alastair,
Maybe being that old though, i might pass it up & look for something a little younger. Do you have any suggestions on any other tripods?

Thanks in advance,
Bryce

Hi all,
So i am levetating towards a 100mm bowl tripod & was thinking about this head: Sachtler 1006 DV-10 SB Fluid Head 1006 B&H Photo Video
Not exactly sure which set of legs i would use yet, but likely a set of carbon fibre sticks.
So the counter balance weight of this head seems to be what i should be looking for, but i wanted to pose the question here first. It has been said that a much bigger heavier tripod system is what i should be looking for, but from all the specs, it looks like unless i get a big heavy (expensive) Sachtler, my camera simply won't fall within the counter balance range of many of these bigger heavier systems. What is more important here, the counterbalance weight, or the shear weight of the tripod system itself?
Thanks in advance,
Bryce

I think you are placing too much importance on the 100mm bowl. As previous posts have stated, it's the head quality that you should be looking for. For smooth panning use a long extension on the arm. One of the most useful things you can do is to practice smooth shots, take you camera lens, tripod combination out and spend an hour doing pans and then evaluate the shots to see where you can make improvements. Athletes, Musicians and other performers rehearse and work out for hours or days before they commit to a performance. We as cameramen often overlook this. Practice makes perfect is the order of the day.

Hi Vincent,
Well i am convinced that i need to upgrade from the Miller DS 10 that i am currently using. The camera is right at the limit for that heads weight. I find it very hard to balance the camera & end up having to use a bit of drag to compensate. Are you saying though, that as long as the head is good quality it will allow me to get smooth movements? I guess i was under the impression that i would need to go to something heavier to be able to achieve that with long lenses.

Thanks,
Bryce

What I am saying is that a good quality head is what you need, this could either be a 75 or 100mm socket head. For the EX3 the socket size is not the problem. I think you may have found the limitation with the head that you are using (for the camera and long lens combination) If you have a decent set of legs than look for a better head. Miller has a great range.

Having said all this, an investment in a decent tripod and head with be well worth the money. I like the Miller Compass range, with solo legs.

Thanks Vincent,
Good advice! I had also been looking at the Compass 20 & Sachtler FSB-8 heads that i could use with my current tripod. Both i'm sure would be a great improvement over the DS 10. Ofcourse if i put a big 400mm lens on the EX3 it is all of a sudden going to be up on the limits for both of these heads too, hence the reason i was thinking of the Sachtler DV-10.
Regards,

Bryce

Actually it looks like the Miller Compass 20 has a very similar weight range to the Sachtler DV 10 head but in a 75mm bowl.
I only wish i could try some of these systems out for myself with the camera. That's the problem with living in BFN i guess!

Maybe i need to look more closely at the compass 20??

Regards,
Bryce

One thing to check is what happens when you lock off your existing tripod head. First check for any obvious play or movement in the head. If everything is tight and locked down but your images with a long lens exhibit vibration or just general instability with the head locked, then your legs are most likely not up to the task. If you get a bigger, heavier head and put them on the same legs, your wasting your money. A tripod is a system and it will only ever be as good as the weakest link or lowest performing part.

Miller make very good tripods. The solo range is excellent, but they are primarily designed for portability giving a good balance between stability and lug-ability. In my opinion, single tube legs just don't have the stability of multi-tube legs. Long lens work is hard on tripods, you really need to make your choice very carefully and as a generalisation heavy weight equals greater stability.

Heavier heads and sticks and heads help a lot, especially in the wind.

I love the Miller Solo CF sticks as well, but I have found them marginal in windy conditions.

Here are a few tips for smoother pans on lighter heads. If it is windy hang a weight like a sandbag from the bottom of the head. Millers have a hook just for that.

For super smooth pans use a rubber band to pull the pan bar, it will even out your coffee shakes. I have a few rubber bands wrapped around all my handles, just for that.

Another trick is to pan not using the pan bar at all, just grab the head and pan, this will be smooth as well. And yes practice helps a lot. Sometimes I do this in conjunction with focusing both hands very close left on the FF or focus ring and the right wrapped around the head. It is easy to introduce jitter with the pan bar. When following action like sports or fast wildlife the pan bar works very well, but for slow smooth moves I prefer the above techniques.

Olof is absolutely correct... heavier heads and sticks will make all the difference. I use 100mm heads and have never found them to be too much for an EX (especially with long lenses). He also is spot on about panning by pulling the head itself, not the pan arm when using a really long lens, (especially after a good shot of coffee!) It'll be much smoother. If you have to zoom or focus, you might try looking into a zoom controller with focus. I often take my zoom controller off the pan arm (or the whole pan arm off) and make my adjustments with it disconnected from the tripod to minimize any vibration or shake when using extremely long lenses. This really helps in the wind, too. (but I love the rubber band idea! I'm going to have to try that) I've not used a focus controller though, mine is only zoom and record start/stop. The best controllers I've used are Canon and Fuji broadcast lens controllers designed for 2/3" lenses, but adapted for the EX lens. They are FAR smoother. All you need is an adapter cable to make it work.

If you end up going with the 100mm bowl route (which seems logical at least with respect to more versatility) I have a set of sticks w/ 100mm bowl I've been looking to sell. I bought them for the head that was on them (a used Sachtler 18II) but I'm a Gitzo guy all the way with sticks, and had a spare set already so I have no use for the sticks which came with the head. They are carbon fiber single-stage spreader (with spreader) and in excellent shape. E-mail me if you're interested, They're very solid and very light weight for the stability. I can send you some pics. You can find some decent deals on older tripod heads but make sure they have been well cared for or have been overhauled before you commit. Sachtler especially can be very expensive to service, but will indeed last a lifetime with a little care.

Wow! Thank you to everyone that has been helping me out here with their advice. I really appreciate the feedback since i'm in a position where i can't test things out for myself.
So i was trying a few things out over the weekend with my camera & the various different lenses, & have found that at the longest focal length, pans are very smooth out at around a mile away. Following speed boats at high speed anywhere from 1/4 of a mile away, to over a mile away, was no problem, it was more where i was filming things like hummingbirds & dragon flies etc from 20-30 feet away that i was seeing more problems. At these distances, i was seeing every little shake.
Alastair, yes when i lock the DS 10 head down, there is definitely play in a couple of different spots. That has been the case since i bought the head new, but until now, i didn't worry about it, as i wasn't shooting at such long focal lengths.
To be honest, i was pretty excited at what was possible with the head i have & was definitely thinking i would be able to get away with simply buying a better head to go on the sticks i already have.
Of course, i have to think about the future, & the possibility that i may one day have a 400mm lens to go on the front of the EX 3. With that in mind, the Miller Compass 20 cetainly looks to have the weight range covered.
If there is anyone that can tell me why i would be better off with another head or for that matter system rather than buying the Compass 20 to go on my existing Miller Solo CF sticks please let me know, as i am starting to lean that way & would like to get something purchased in the next few weeks.
Regards,
Bryce

Well talk about doing a backflip. In the end i ordered a 100mm tripod & head. Gitzo sticks, & Sachtler head. Should have it here in about a week. Will let you know how it goes when i get it.
Again, thanks all for the help.
Regards,
Bryce

Sounds like a great combination. I have the Sachtler FSB-6 (75mm) with the CF legs. Recently modified my Gitzo GT3531 sticks by swapping out its center column-mounted flat top with the 75mm bowl top I cannibalized off a new GT2542LS set of sticks. The GT3531 being a Series 3 model, has the beefier legs compared to the Series 2 GT2542LS. (I couldn't locate a dealer in Hong Kong who had the Series 3 tripod with a 75mm bowl, so that's why I compromised.) The thing I wanted to mention is that the amount of adjustment I get on the FSB-6 when mounted to the Gitzo sticks is actually more than on the Sachtler sticks. With your choice of the 100mm bowl, I'd think it'd be safe to assume that you'll also have sufficient leveling range. I get roughly +/- 10 degrees of movement now.

Hi Mark,
That sounds like a great setup of yours. I ended up going with a 5 series tripod, so the heaviest of the bunch & hopefully the most stable. I really am looking forward to getting this tripod & putting it to use. I shot some footage of mountain caribou with my 300mm lens over the weekend & unfortunately some of the footage is less than ideal because of camera shake.
Will let you know just how much of an improvement it is in a week or so.
Regards,
Bryce

The local camera shop on the outskirts of Tokyo now has them series 5 tripods... and let me tell you, they are substantially bigger than the 3. Really looked heavy-duty. Would be over-kill for me, but you're going to really like the pans you get out of that head. I think all tripods have some amount of wind-up, but not noticeable under normal focal lengths. When I put the 100-400mm lens with 1.4X extender on my XL-H1A with it's 7.2 magnification factor.... I get shaky footage when cars pass by 50 yards away. But then I have to pull back to keep the moon from filling the entire viewfinder. I used the Sachtler model 75 CF legs l got with the head, but they have lots of little moving parts and I figured it would fail on me. It did, had a tube pull right out of the upper socket. I owned a stills-type Gitzo tripod with a "fluid-like" head, which turned out to be for stills photography, not suited for smooth video pans. Not wanting to drop another load of cash on a proper video support system, I came up with the Frankenpod. It was my stills Gitzo tripod with flat top, with a Manfrotto 438 ball leveller and atop that a Manfrotto 325N bowl adapter. Gotta be prepared to hear a few muffled comments whenever taking that thing out in public, but it did work. Now so glad to have moved forward.

Looking forward to hearing about your new system once you test it out.

Mark

Hey Mark,
Wow, that is one heck of a setup you had there, bet you're glad you managed to modify things so it works better & is a simpler set up.
I received my tripod today. Unfortunately there wasn't much time to play with it, but it certainly looks the goods. Yes the 5 series tripod is certainly a beefy big of gear that's for sure! I am very impressed with the Gitzo tripod, the fit & finish is top notch. I really love the spikes on the legs, they should really get some good purchase on rough ground. The tripod also came with 3 ski pole type baskets that screw on to the leg spikes so i'll be interested to see how they work in the snow. I normally just fully extend the legs & push them into the snow & get quite a stable platform so i'm curious to see if the ski pole basket idea helps or not. I am also super impressed with how low the tripod goes. With the camera on & level, the centre of the lens is only 14 1/2 inches off the ground! I will have to measure the Miller, but i'm pretty sure this new setup is lower!
Onto the tripod head, & well, what can i say, it is certainly a beautiful piece of equipment. Those Germans really know how to build a nice bit of kit hey!
As soon as i have had a bit of time to play, i will let you know how it all performs, & try to add some photos.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the input.
Regards,
Bryce

Well i have spent the last couple of days with the new tripod system. The Gitzo legs certainly are a lot beefier than the Miller solo cf 75 legs. The rubber feet are a bit of a pain to have to take on & off when needed, & i can see myself loosing some or all of them at some stage. (Thanks to Derek for the suggestion to buy a spare set!) On the Miller, the rubber feet screw up out of the way, so that was nifty, but the spikes themselves aren't as good as the Gitzo's. There is no way to tie the legs together like on the Miller, where they have a small strap that clips together & ties the legs together at the end. Not a deal breaker, but i will definitely be making something similar to the Miller strap for the Gitzo. Like i said, this Gitzo is beefy! The upper leg sections are about 40mm in diameter making it very sturdy indeed. All in all, i really like the tripod, & i'm very happy with it.
Onto the head.
Well balancing the camera is a real dream on the Sachtler DV-10SB. I love the Euro plate compared to the sliding plate of my old Miller DS10 head. No fussing trying to slide it in all the time, simply click it in & go! The markings on the side of the sliding plate are great, & make it really easy once you know where the balance point is for each lens. The pan handle has a very hard plastic handle grip, & in my opinion could be better if it were made of a softer rubber material. In the end, i slipped a mic foamy over it, & that certainly made a difference to the vibrations caused when handling via the pan handle. Still, a rubber band is the best way to go for smooth vibration free pans & tilts. The head is super smooth & the adjustments are far more presice than the old Miller DS10 head.
So, was all the money worth it? Definitely yes! While i am still struggling to get perfect footage with the 300mm lens, i think a lot of the issue is where i am focussing & the focus ring on that particular lens is very, very stiff! With the other lenses i have, the focus ring is super smooth & i just don't have the same issue. In the end, technique is what will make all the difference, but there is no doubt, that a good head & set of legs help achieve good results.
Here are some photos of the setup.
Again, thanks to all for the help they gave me on this it was all very much appreciated!