3 sensors or just 1?
PMW-100: one 1/2.9-inch CMOS
PMW-200: three 1/2-inch CMOS

Here you can download the manual of both camcorders in English: http://cinescopophilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PMW-200.pdf

This PMW 100 seems to have an EX1 lens. It's supposedly a 1/2 inch sensor too.

The big questions are this:

3 sensors or just 1?
10 bit SDI out or 8bit?
If it is a 3 sensor with 10bit out than its clearly a replacement for the EX1r. I got a feeling in my gut that Sony will make this. Single 1/2 inch with 8 bit SDI only. Mostly because they still have the EX3 floating out there. A 3 sensor, 10bit PMW 200 could replace the EX1 but not the EX3 and it would be strange to leave it hanging out there all alone 4:2:0 like that. Who knows?


I assume you meant to say "PMW-200" because the PMW-100 has already been released and it is only one 1/3" sensor.

Sony's SDI output is always 10-bit on all of their cameras -- even the EX1 and PMW-100. So there's no chance a new camera is going to be 8-bit no matter how many sensors it has or what size they are.

David's comments are on the right track.

Put a fully approved codec with 3 1/2" chips into a package this size and it becomes a clear winner over both the XF305 and Panasonics HPX250, both of which have been able to claim a codec advantage in the past to partly offset their front end disadvantages.


In my experience, clear winner is an overstatement. I had an EX-1 with a Nanoflash for two years. Switched to an XF300 and like the images I am getting a lot more with the XF300. Better detail in finished products (DVD & Blu-ray), ergonomics and a better overall look. I could never get past a faint posterized/plastic look to skin and some colors. Personal preference but outside of the EX 1/2" series having better light gathering abilities the EX is a really good choice out of three or soon to be four with the JVC 600 series.

the sensor will be 1/2". whether there is 1 or 3 is another matter. or some strange new technology where 1 sensor does 3 things..

An s35 sensor in an ENG package using XDCAM 4:2:2-50 is a "big thing". 1/2" 3mos using XDCAM 4:2:2-50 may be a big thing for Sony and the 1/2" chips in the "PMW-200" distinguishes them from the pack but it's somewhat not such a "big thing" unless it's the price vs the competition that's the "big thing". IMHO

I assume you meant to say "PMW-200" because the PMW-100 has already been released and it is only one 1/3" sensor.

Sony's SDI output is always 10-bit on all of their cameras -- even the EX1 and PMW-100. So there's no chance a new camera is going to be 8-bit no matter how many sensors it has or what size they are.

David's comments are on the right track.




Sorry,...you are right, I did mean "PMW 200".

This is potentially a HUGE development. Rumors are coming in that this PMW 200 is a THREE sensor camera with 10bit SDI out.

If this is the case than we can certainly and finally call it the true successor to the beloved EX1r! (I knew the day would come "some day")

Also, given how Sony has made vast improvements in recent years with sensor readout, post processing and noise reduction, we should have very high exceptions for the PMW 200's image quality. Sony can do ALLOT more with 3 1/2 inch sensors today than they could 5 years ago.

Even bigger questions:

Does this mean that the EX 4:2:0 codec is "dead"?
Is the F3 the last "EX" codec camera that Sony will ever make?
Will "NXCAM" now be Sony's only 4:2:0 codec for future products?

Wow,..tomorrow could be one of those "The king is dead!" days...lol

Very very interesting.

I agree. If its 3 sensors and basically just a codec upgrade to the EX1r then they'll sell shed loads anyway as it'll be a worthy upgrade (but hardly the next big thing as you rightly point out). But, if it has a single s35 sensor, then they'll need to build a new factory (and lots of warehouse/sheds all over the world) to supply the huge pent up demand - assuming they don't get a bit greedy on the pricing, Canon C300 style.

I guess we'll all know in 48hrs. Come on Sony, you already have all the important components of the jigsaw in your arsenal - and we know you can do it, if you really want to!!!

However, don't get too excited as yesterday at least one website claimed that they had found a translation of the specs on a Sony site stating it will be 1/2 inch XDCAM 422 - so I suspect that means an EX1r replacement/upgrade.

I won't post a link to them as I know Chris doesn't do rumor sites etc.

Thank you! It is true, I will not give traffic to "rumor" sites. Sony will make it official very soon anyway. Much appreciated,

In my experience, clear winner is an overstatement. I had an EX-1 with a Nanoflash for two years. Switched to an XF300 and like the images I am getting a lot more with the XF300.
The question must be whether that was down to line-up, or something intrinsic to the camera? Ten or more years ago, the "look" of a camera in this price range was defined by the manufacturer and had to be accepted. And different manufacturers had different preferences - no right or wrong, it was a matter of opinion.

But more recently cameras in this price range have a wide range of adjustment, as previously only used to be true for much higher end models. The default "look" of a camera now may differ out of the box by manufacturer, but if you prefer different, change the line-up - it's not the issue it used to be.
Better detail in finished products (DVD & Blu-ray), ergonomics and a better overall look. I could never get past a faint posterized/plastic look to skin and some colors. Personal preference ........
A guess, but what you describe sounds like an excessive level of what I know as "coring", and I think Sony describe as "crispening". Benefits of it include lower noise level - downside is exactly what you describe, high contrast detail is strong, subtle detail removed. If that's true, it's a line up issue - not fundamental to the hardware.

Some factors ARE fundamental to the hardware, and 1/2" v 1/3" chips greatly affects some of these. Tims already mentioned lowlight and noise performance - also important are depth of field differences and minimum usable aperture due to diffraction.

In the past, when asked "what about the EX 1/2" chips?" Canon and Panasonic have been able to counter "they may be 1/3", but our cameras have a fully approved codec built in." Quite true. If Sony are bringing out a camera based on the EX, but with 50Mbs XDCAM, Canon and Panasonic lose maybe their strongest card overnight.

In the past, when asked "what about the EX 1/2" chips?" Canon and Panasonic have been able to counter "they may be 1/3", but our cameras have a fully approved codec built in." Quite true. If Sony are bringing out a camera based on the EX, but with 50Mbs XDCAM, Canon and Panasonic lose maybe their strongest card overnight.

Fully approved codec is no guarantee though; Sony have just had the PMW-100 with 50mbs XDCAM codec not approved by the BBC. Bearing in mind that the PMW-100 seemed to be the answer to the Canon XF-300 that was approved (with a smaller sensor).

Whether or not the sensor in this new Sony will pass is another issue, but it seems the approval is based on the total sum of the parts including, but not limited to, the codec.

Fully approved codec is no guarantee though; Sony have just had the PMW-100 with 50mbs XDCAM codec not approved by the BBC.......
That doesn't surprise me at all, but (not surpisingly) it's going to be the front end that lets the PMW100 down. The earlier comment was intended to specifically relate between the EX1, XF305 and HPX250, my apologies for not being clearer.

I believe the BBC will accept an EX1 at the moment - provided it is coupled to an external recorder like a nanoFlash to give at least 50Mbs. Build that codec in, and keep the same (or better) front end and I can't see why it won't be even more acceptable than the XF305.

The PMW-100 was never going to be accepted and anyone that thought it might needs to look at the minimum specs that the BBC and EBU have for a broadcast camera.

For long form programme aquisition EBU R 118 requires that cameras have 3 x 1/2" sensors and a minimum of a 50Mb/s 422 codec. There is a dispensation for 3x 1/3" sensors provided they meet specific testing requirements.

For news you can use 3x 1/3" or 3x 1/2" with a minimum of 35Mb/s according to EBU R 118.

But in no instance can you use a single small sensor as your main camera for any type of broadcast production, so the PMW-100 was never going to get approved, same story with the Canon XF100/105. That's not what the PMW-100 was designed for. The idea behind it is a small camera using the same codec and thus same workflow as the PMW-500 for getting occasional pick shots that fall into the 20% of a programme that can be shot with non "HD" cameras.

If it is EX1 replacement as the leaks suggest, it won't have 1080 50/60p, because I think it's not supported by the MPeg2 compression. It is kind of surreal that a €600 still camera can output that and not a €6000 pro video camera.

So what? I had an inexpensive 3-chip TM700 that recorded 1080p60. I'd take the EX1R image over it any day.

If it is EX1 replacement as the leaks suggest, it won't have 1080 50/60p, because I think it's not supported by the MPeg2 compression.

It is supported by MPEG2. It's not a standard but it is supported.

Looks like we have "credible" people saying that the PMW 200 will have iPad and Android WiFi control.

I got a feeling this camera will be a huge seller.

Bye bye XDACM EX 4:2:0. Looks like Sony is done making cameras with this codec. It seems that 4:2:0 will be the sole domain of NXCAM moving forward.

Alister, have you seen one yet? (Damn,....I guess you cant talk until tomorrow)

Cliff

This does beg the question: Is there still value in a EX1+Nanoflash combo because of this?

For those not planning to exceed 50Mbps, this does cancel out the reason to get a EX1/EX1R.

Personally, I always shoot 100Mbps with the Nanoflash when I'm using it so I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade as of yet.

I LOVE my EX1r. Especially when shooting to Avid DNxHD 10bit 4:2:2

However, the camera is based off the EX1 and that camera is a few years old now. The EX1r is a bit "dirty" in the upper gain levels by today's standards. I have a NEX VG20 that is beautiful at +12db. Even +18db is very usable. Even the NX70 looks very clean at +12 & 15db. Much better cleaner than the EX1r at +9db. (not saying it's a better image, just saying it's "cleaner")

In these last few years, Sony has made HUGE improvements in sensor readout, post processing and noise reduction. Just look at what they have been able to do with the single 1/3rd inches today. It's crazy to see what they are getting from these little guys. The processing on the FS100 and F3 are fantastic as well. (granted, those are large sensors)

I have a very strong feeling that if Sony "allows" this new PMW 200 to have all the current sensor readout and processing technology that they have developed so far,...we will see the PMW 200 having far superior noise handling to the "old" EX1 cameras. ("old"...lol..I cant believe I'm saying that)

Imagine having an EX1r or EX3 that looks just as clean at +12db as it does at 0db.

I hope we see Alister pop out with his surprise PMW 200 field test results tomorrow. ;-)

EX1r for sale!

CT

QUOTE=Jack Zhang;1745343]This does beg the question: Is there still value in a EX1+Nanoflash combo because of this?

For those not planning to exceed 50Mbps, this does cancel out the reason to get a EX1/EX1R.

Personally, I always shoot 100Mbps with the Nanoflash when I'm using it so I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade as of yet.[/QUOTE]

I have an EX1 and Nanoflash combo and also record at 100mbps - if the only major difference in this camera is 50mbps and 422 without any significant upgrade in tweaking the sensors for better low light performance, less noise - I also see no reason to upgrade. I also like the idea of 4-7 second pre record buffer and having duplicate recording capability in case there is a problem with any corrupted files on the in-camera recording system.

I feel sad to see the flip-under LCD not re-instated in future models. This is really beneficial if you want to retract your LCD with a light on the front shoe mount (for instance, a Flolight Microbeam with a 970 battery) and still want to open it later on.

I hope we see Alister pop out with his surprise PMW 200 field test results tomorrow. ;-)


Possibly :-)

The embargo ends at 2am tomorrow UK time.

That's coming up quick. 3 hours to go.

I'll really need to see results shot at 18db gain before I reconsider skipping this.

Here is the announcement:

Sony Brings HD 4:2:2 Workflow to XDCAM Camcorder Line at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/sony-brings-hd-422-workflow-to-xdcam-camcorder-line.html)

So its an EX1R with 50Mb/s 4:2:2 MXF recording and a Wi-Fi remote facility to follow in December with a free firmware update.
Suggested price: $7790

Continued in a new thread at:

Sony PMW-200 Brings HD 4:2:2 Workflow to XDCAM Camcorder Line -- Discussion Thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/509573-sony-pmw-200-brings-hd-4-2-2-workflow-xdcam-camcorder-line.html#post1745397)

See you there!