Hello,

I am posting here as I know Craig Yanagi often visits this forum and having community input regarding my post is always healthy.

This post is about JVC's upcoming line of 600 series cameras. Upon reading about these cameras around NAB, I was pleasantly surprised about some of the specifications of these models. I am posting to ask the possibility to take the series a bit further.

As an owner/operator, it seems I am always looking at cameras and seeing a fatal flaw or two that keeps my enthusiasm down. There is no perfect camera, but that does not change the annoyance.

This is pure individual input from me and my opinions from a video (not cinema) usage point of view.

I would like to see another step up from the two 600 series models to make a fixed lens, small form shoulder mount version with the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec.

1) Form factor - I like to have one camera that is a shoulder mount. The 5.5 pound handicam style of camera is just too heavy to handhold. These are tripod bound cameras outside of small bursts. JVC's small shoulder mount design has always caught my attention but the camera has left me wanting more (mainly with light sensitivity). This form factor with the improved f11 @ 2000 lux chipset would be an event camera to dream of.

2) Fixed Lens - So often shoulder mount equals interchangeable lenses. This does not have to be the case. The focal range of the 600 series eliminates the need to ever change a lens. So it would make sense to use the same approach on a shoulder mount design.

3) Pro Servo Motors/Zoom Control - Since JVC has partnered with Fujinon, it would grand if this fixed lens could have a true servo motors and the option to use a broadcast zoom controller. As a user of a broadcast lens for many years, these pro zoom controllers allow me to be artistic with my camera movements way more so than with a LANC controller.

4) 50mbps 4:2:2 Codec - As a forum member, I have been reading the back and fourth over codecs and bitrates everywhere. Sure in the end all are not too bad, but more information is more information. In this age when storage and memory speed are not a constraint, why not include the option? This is a big point to me as I believe it speaks to the longevity of the camera's life expectancy. The march forward to better recording will always continue. In my experience, the higher bitrates give you more options and for "video" people who are often in live situations, this is a good thing...

5) Handicam Batteries - The use of affordable batteries on the shoulder mount would be appreciated!

6) Color Matrix - I have not used a JVC camera since the DV days so I do not know what comes standard but I really respect a camera manufacturer that gives the user tons of image control in the menu. Especially with color correction.

I realize this post is quite myopic and self centered, but I figured I would let my voice be heard. As an owner/operator, I have a choice between Panasonic, Sony, Canon or JVC. To be honest, JVC has not been on my radar until I read about the 600 series. An upper end model that matches the other two would be a great competitor to the Panasonic HPX-370/HPX-250 duo, and the Sony EX series.

Thanks for your participation here and I would love to hear your impressions and the possibility, either on this post or privately.

Tim Polster

I know Craig heard many of these ideas at NAB as I myself brought some of them up as we sat and chatted for hours at an industry event on the Monday night.

I too am a fan of shoulder cams (and own 2 GY-HD200UBs) but I'm starting to think that MAY be "passing us by"... much to my dismay... so many new shooters have never used one and entered the industry on dSLRs now so they have embraced lousy ergonomics for the sake of cost (and weight) savings.

I hope I'm wrong...

PS. The cameras are quite interesting up close and personal... they were assembled only days before and hand carried from Japan so I'll reserve my one or two niggles until I see a production version...

Lee Daniel, DP of such classic films as SLACKER, DAZED AND CONFUSED, BEFORE SUNSET, walked out of our office with a GY-HM790 and a HZ-CA13U 1/3 - PL adapter to put his SUPER 16 lenses on the camera yesterday.

Lee Daniel - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0199679/)

GY-HM600 has 1080 chips and the 790 does not. You can see this by noting the GY-HM600 is advertised as such and the GY-HM790 never was.

JVC Professional Features page (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102153)

GY-HM600 has a fixed lens. GY-HM790 does not. So. We have to wait for a supposed large sensor non-fixed lens camera from JVC instead of getting a GY-HM890, perhaps (I just made this up), which could look just like the GY-HM790, but with the new chips? 1/2" chip GY-HMQ10 fixed lens 4K that started shipping April 2012 covers new territory, but not for this conversation.

We know the majority of the team that made "A Verse Before Dying" on the Panasonic AG-AF100 before it was commercially available. We know a couple DPs as well. How about, Craig, you ship us that supposed large sensor non-fixed lens camera and we'll whip something together. Behind the scenes as well. We're a full JVC dealer. We're good for it.

"A Verse Before Dying" on Vimeo

Respectfully,

I would like to see another step up from the two 600 series models to make a fixed lens, small form shoulder mount version with the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec.

1) Form factor - I like to have one camera that is a shoulder mount. The 5.5 pound handicam style of camera is just too heavy to handhold. These are tripod bound cameras outside of small bursts. JVC's small shoulder mount design has always caught my attention ...........
I agree 100% with everything you say in the first post Tim. Absolutely spot on.

The one way in which JVC have undeniably been better than their competitors at this price/size/weight point has been ergonomics. Maybe the 600 series are a step up technically - the general concensus is they are a big step backwards ergonomically. What are JVC thinking about?

And yes again to the point about codecs. It shouldn't be any more difficult or expensve to put the 50Mbs codec into such a camera than the 35Mbs - Canon have proved that. It's a mute point how much difference it makes for a lot of users, granted, but it enables any user to say "my camera has a fully approved for broadcast codec". If Cano can do it, why can't JVC? (Or Sony for that matter?)

Thanks David. I realise I am probably shouting into the abyss but I at least wanted my hopes for a great camera to be known.

To Shaun: Thanks for your input. It is shame the form factor is looked upon as "old school" Effective is effective in my book!

To Phillip: interesting but I am hoping for an event camera, not a SDOF cinema camera! :)

(Or Sony for that matter?)

The new XDCamEX PMW100 does record 50mbps. But of course, it is a single chip camera...

Its funny that they would slap ENG on the camera did they even talk to a news shooter. you can only hold a camera like that steady for a short period of time off the shoulder. If you have any kind of extended MOS interview it will be shaky and painful, I have AG-hmc 150s which I am about to replace I love this camera except I just cant get another hand held camera. At least make some kind of optional shoulder mount for it. Most news guys use Anton/Bauer there is no way to mount any anton/bauer stuff on this thing.

The new HM 600 series is by far the most interesting camcorder for me this year. I haven`t tried one but specifications wise, it seems really, really good.

I hope JVC during 2013 will bring out an updated shoulder mounted camera, an HM800/ 850 maybe? If they do I am in the market for one.

This year has been frustrating for me, as I sold both my shoulder cams to invest in 2 EX1Rs. Good cameras, that work great indoors shooting live events. But outdoors in the sun/ snow/ rain, shooting with a small viewfinder and cumbersome raincover with bits and pieces all over the place, extra sunhood for my LCD- screen, hard to get to buttons etc, I sure do miss a shoulder mounted camera with a proper viewfinder.

Camcorder design these days are.....well...odd. I have been wanting a rig for my FS100 camera for a long time now, but adding things up, it is quite expensive. I feel many of the new today cameras need a rig to work ( for me anyway).

JVC is in my opinion the one manufacturer to get it right.

Oh, and I also hope JVC will bring a Super 35 camera to the market soon. XDCam EX- codec and Pro Res would be fine by me.

Completely agree, a HM800 would be the perfect ENG camera for me. The specs and features of the HM600 in the body of a HM750 for £5k would be ideal, I'd probably buy two!

Sadly I probably wont be able to wait until NAB to hold off on purchasing a camera so will probably have to look elsewhere at least for one of the cameras.

Indeed it is about time JVC did catch up to offer us 4:2:2 and 50bps which is slowly becoming the standard for these types of camera of which Canon and Sony have now held for several years.

Its funny that they would slap ENG on the camera did they even talk to a news shooter. you can only hold a camera like that steady for a short period of time off the shoulder.

Sadly, more and more markets are going to the Video Journalist model, forgoing the camera operator and journalist team for an "all-in-one", which is ALWAYS a journalist, who may or may not know a THING about cameras when they get assigned... so the form factor of this series of camera, again sadly, IS the "ideal" for a lot of newsrooms...

I am considering an HM600 and an HM750, they should work great together. However, uncertain what NAB will bring in terms of a new shoulder mounted camera from JVC. They would have to change their entire range of HM710/ 750/ 790 line up. In some respects these cameras are too "new" to be replaced so soon. Hope I am wrong, though. I wonder if a firmware update would be possible to enhance the sensitivity of the HM700 series?

I agree with Shaun, that the current formfactor of a news camera is the HM600/ EX1R/HPX250 camcorders, there hasn`t been much development of proper shoulder cameras recently other than those from JVC.

It seems everybody is shooting stuff either up people`s noses or out of focus shots with DSLRs on documentaries these days.

I consider my self to be a pro-amateur, what I strive to get right is white balance and focus, then exposure and composition. Not alwyas easy to achieve with the current formfactor of the aforementioned cameras.

I currently own two EX1Rs, an FS100, an NX70 and a Z5. All Sony cameras. As I own the JVC PL- adapter I am considering selling all cameras except the EX1Rs and replace them with an HM750, a CP2 35 mm lens and a Fujinon XT20SX4.7BRM-K1 1/3” 20 x Zoom Lens For GY-HM750/790. Perhaps this would finally give me the best of both worlds. And I should be able to finance it with the sell of the other
cameras.

Sadly, more and more markets are going to the Video Journalist model, forgoing the camera operator and journalist team for an "all-in-one", which is ALWAYS a journalist, who may or may not know a THING about cameras when they get assigned... so the form factor of this series of camera, again sadly, IS the "ideal" for a lot of newsrooms...

In my city, there's a local affiliate that hires journalism grads that know nothing about cameras other than to ask where the "auto" button is :(

In my city, there's a local affiliate that hires journalism grads that know nothing about cameras other than to ask where the "auto" button is :(

LOL, so I guess the main feature the HM600 needs to have for news reporting is a good auto button.

For me, I would ask most for item 4 of the original post: 1080i60 50mbps 4:2:2 color. Hopefully this feature could be added as a zero cost firmware upgrade.

I also find this camera to be of interest. I'd probably spring but
for the lack of 50mb. Given the op put this wish list
out over 6 months ago and no apparent response from JVC, I won't be holding
my breath that there will be one. Perhaps that is the response. Too bad.
While it is a much older camera, the price for the Canon XF300 has dropped
substantially, at least at B&H

I consider my self to be a pro-amateur, what I strive to get right is white balance and focus, then exposure and composition. Not alwyas easy to achieve with the current formfactor of the aforementioned cameras.

I currently own two EX1Rs, an FS100, an NX70 and a Z5. All Sony cameras. As I own the JVC PL- adapter I am considering selling all cameras except the EX1Rs and replace them with an HM750, a CP2 35 mm lens and a Fujinon XT20SX4.7BRM-K1 1/3” 20 x Zoom Lens For GY-HM750/790. Perhaps this would finally give me the best of both worlds. And I should be able to finance it with the sell of the other
cameras.

You have all those cameras, and you consider yourself a pro-amateur? Lol...you have better gear than many full-time professionals! I've been shooting for 25 years and all I have is one FS100.

I am considering switching to an EX1R or an EX3, or the HM600. I am hoping JVC does make a shoulder-mount version of the HM600.

LOL, so I guess the main feature the HM600 needs to have for news reporting is a good auto button.

For me, I would ask most for item 4 of the original post: 1080i60 50mbps 4:2:2 color. Hopefully this feature could be added as a zero cost firmware upgrade.

I don't know, but I'm guessing doing this will take a lot more than a simple firmware upgrade. I think they'd have to design a camera from scratch to record in that format.
No camera manufacturer has upgraded from a 4:2:0 to a 4:2:2 format, except through the HDMI port.

Besides, local news stations don't seem to be concerned about anything more than 35mbps, 4:2:0.

...the OP put this wish list out over 6 months ago and no apparent response from JVC...

Perhaps that response is coming in April around NAB time.

Usually when I go to CES at the first of the year, I manage to find a way to grill the JVC execs (howdy Lon! yes I know you're watching this). But alas, this time I'm sitting out that show, so I'm sorry to say I won't have that opportunity.

You have all those cameras, and you consider yourself a pro-amateur? Lol...you have better gear than many full-time professionals! I've been shooting for 25 years and all I have is one FS100.

I am considering switching to an EX1R or an EX3, or the HM600. I am hoping JVC does make a shoulder-mount version of the HM600.

Glen. Maybe I am just equipment happy!

Seriously, though. Different tools for different jobs. My EX1rs are my go to cameras for almost everything I shoot. They are just so versatile to use. Acceptable zoom range, fantastic LCD screen situated where I like it to be. I have been wanting to make my FS100 my go to camera but I like the workflow with the SxS cards better. Maybe that will change when I switch from FCP7 to Adobe.

Everybody says that the FS100 is so much better in low light. But out of the box with the stock lens on, my EX1Rs give me a brighter picture when opened up to than the FS100.

The FS100 is better when you adjust the gain, but zooming in you drop to f5.6 and then push the gain back up, it defeats what I have been taught about gain and f- stop settings. I have been wondering if there is something wrong with my camera, because many people on this forum say it soaks in light.

My Z5 I use with a super8 transfer machine which uses the firewire port of the camera to controll and scan each frame. My NX70 is for family use. But it gives so great images I actually use it on various jobs.

If you have a look at a website called: HD Warrior (http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk), he is hoping to do a comparison between the HM650 and EX3. That will be interesting to see.

The EX3 is a great camera, but it has IR issues causing black clothes to go reddish. I haven`t experienced that with my EX1Rs. The EX3 has a better viewfinder ( actually the same EX1R LCD but with a loupe on it ) making it very easy use to use outdoors. Genlock an timecode is a big plus. It uses the same lens ( imagewise it looks the same anyway ) But it is more frontheavy. Good on a tripod, though.

Perhaps that response is coming in April around NAB time.

Usually when I go to CES at the first of the year, I manage to find a way to grill the JVC execs (howdy Lon! yes I know you're watching this). But alas, this time I'm sitting out that show, so I'm sorry to say I won't have that opportunity.

Chris. Do you know something we don`t? I am leaning towards an HM750 today, but it might be worth the wait if there is a new and improved shoulder mounted camera on is way.

Hi Svein,

If I had chosen to attend CES this year (which starts the day after tomorrow), then I might have been in a position to know something you don't -- but that is not the case. All I'm saying is that JVC has surprised us before and I think they are certainly capable of doing it again.

Chris. Do you know something we don`t? I am leaning towards an HM750 today, but it might be worth the wait if there is a new and improved shoulder mounted camera on is way.

Craig Yanagi has HINTED in the past that some of the things I have "requested" are being listened to and are awaiting in a new release... (no, not just me but the things I have asked for...) and I want many of the same things listed here...

What I will say is that if you don't NEED to buy a camera today, don't. The best time to buy a camera is JUST before you need it as it is a moving target with new options and features appearing almost weekly, it seems.

The big issue with NAB is that all the lovely toys we get to see on the show floor are TYPICALLY not available for several months afterward... The HM650 I played with on the show floor was quite buggy but had been assembled only DAYS before the show and was hand carried to NAB to make the show... a true one-of-a-kind beta model.

Thankfully, I don't have the budget for the three new cameras I "need" to buy this year right now because the Sony PMW200 is what is exciting me the most, given what I need them for...

Hi Shaun.

That is my feeling as well. If I buy the HM750 today, maybe I will regret it when NAB comes in April. But as you say, whatever they show at NAB usually doesn`t turn up before Christmas. That`s one year from now. I believe there is a product called Black Magic......

However, I would like to put my JVC PL- adaptor to use and came across this website Visual Products - Equipment for Sale - Lenses - Zoom Lenses - 16mm Zoom Lenses (http://www.visualproducts.com/store04.asp?ID=27&Cat=8&Cat2=20)

I wonder if these 16 mm lenses would fit nicely on my adaptor. And the HM750 has an attractive price point over here now.

However if JVC releases a Super 35 mm camera......

However if JVC releases a Super 35 mm camera......

MERELY speculating but an S35 camera doesn't fit JVC's historical business model... they are certainly aggressive in terms of introducing tech that pushes boundaries... all the way back to the 1/2" DVHS/D-9 camera released in 1999 or so... probably before that but that's when they showed up on MY radar...

They haven't shown much innovation in recent years in terms of looking at larger format sensors, even 1/2". I'd see a move into the 1/2" market, given the close development and licensing of Sony's XDCam codec before I saw them moving into S35...

Having said that, no one saw the 4k camera they introduced this year coming either...

My 2 cents.

Shaun. Your speculations may be right, but I hope you are wrong. You have a logical way of thinking, though.

One thing I do like about JVC is that the next generation of cameras seem to be built upon the previous one. Meaning if you bought into the HD series, you are able to use your batteries ( excluding the100 series) your 1/3 inch lenses, PL- adaptor, lights and so on.

Look at Sony, How many different types of batteries do they use? M- series, L- series, BPU- series and so on, making it a bit frustrating if one decides to go with a different family of Sony cameras. Economy being what is is, it sure is nice to reuse whatever I can. Cameras may change, but mediaformats, batteries and chargers should stay the same.

NAB will show, maybe?

Belatedly my two cents on the wish list --- agreeing with what Tim said. I come from an ENG background, and would like to see the 600 guts and lens in the 750 form factor, also.

Tim is right about the expensive third-party batteries ... I believe there is room on the rear of the camera to mount two standard JVC camcorder batteries side-by-side, which might be used either in parallel or sequentially, providing undoubtedly as much power as could be needed in a more compact form and certainly a more attractive price point.

Cover them with a removable housing that facilitates the mounting of a wireless receiver, please.

Add the VTR capability of the 790 to this or any ENG camera, because any ENG shooter today faces having to record video feeds from mult-boxes and other pool sources on a frequent basis, or at least that's how it is in larger markets. We have courtroom coverage, the inevitable (sigh, yawn) school-board and commission meetings we have to cover,often with pool-only feeds. I assume this is true in many other markets where there is a lot of competing media.

The 600 technology is just too good to waste on a camera that you can't hand-hold steadily enough to run and gun. The shoulder mount balance is one thing that JVC brags about in their 750 literature, they should bring the rest of the camera up to the present.

I agree 100% ..In fact if the 600 bits had been put into a 700 series case that would have been my instant camera choice this season as the balance is pretty close to perfect. Panasonic didn't upgrade the HMC80 either so there was another wasted opportunity and the only clever guys were Sony and they brought out the EA-50 which satisfied the run and gun guys AND gave the DSLR people a better form factor ...the balance is nowhere as good as the 750 and I have battery packs hanging off the back and that makes it pretty close to balanced.

Maybe manufacturers feel that there is no market left for ENG style cameras ??? The 750 and 790 is pretty old by now with CCD's and it doesn't appear that JVC will restyle it or even make a SM 600/650

Chris

The 750 and 790 is pretty old by now with CCD's and it doesn't appear that JVC will restyle it or even make a SM 600/650

I'm not sure CCDs are so bad. It would be better to improve the low-light capabilities of the 7xx series while keeping the global shutter of the CCDs. However, a shoulder mount version of the 600 that is significantly cheaper than the current 7xx series would be great!