Do not compare image quality between the new high-end handicams (HDR-CX760V or PJ710V) and your NX70U unless you want to feel very, very foolish. They are stunning.

Thanks! Dodged a bullet there.

























So no examples then?

So you're saying the CX760 is much better?

No to pick holes at your statement but the NX70 main selling point is its dust and splash proof!

Comparing it to another camera that doesn't have that feature is a little pointless!

i.e. the next generation of sensors/hardware/lenses is better than the previous generation.

Hmmm.

What's new there?

(Not saying that I love everything about my NX70, but you have to be philosophical!)

No to pick holes at your statement but the NX70 main selling point is its dust and splash proof!

Comparing it to another camera that doesn't have that feature is a little pointless!

Which is exactly why I bought mine. After damaging cameras in extreme conditions before I wanted something a bit tougher and with all my stuff going up on youtube it doesn't have to be "HD broadcast" quality.

It's nice to know there are great little cameras coming on the market, but I'm still havppy with my NX70 (aside from the LANC issue).

May post samples in a week or so if I get some free time. I think the sensors are probably similar, the processing in the 760 is better, and the Zeiss lens is much better. I think the NX70U's color balance is better, which is significant (since both cams are AVCHD). Finally, the 760V's new floating housing stabilization is truly remarkable.

An NX70U-style body with the 760V's upgrades would be very attractive (minus the NX70's flaws). As-is, I think mine's headed for ebay...

I own both of these cameras and have done some low light indoor side by side tests. I essentially was in a dark room with with some detailed objects and went through the gain on each camera starting at 0db and moving up using identical shutter and iris settings. (finding the exact gain you are using on the CX760 is a pain! You adjust your exposure carefully and read it out only on playback...uggg)

What I found out is the both cameras are EXTREMELY similar in performance. I'm certain that they are based on the same sensor, read out and post processing. The noise characteristics are very very close to each other throughout the entire gain range.

Here are the differences that I have discovered:

1.) The CX760 lens performs slightly better than the NX70. I find the CX760 to have slightly sharper image on the edges of the lens when both lenses are wide open. (especially on the right side of the CX760. My NX70 is slightly "soft" on it's right side when wide open.)

2.) CX760 will go 3db higher in gain.(max of 24db) where the NX70 stops only at 21db. So you can get a brighter image on the top end of the CX760. (note: I noticed that noise levels at 21db were virtually identical on both cams)

Aside form that, the two are very similar in image quality. The steady shot on the CX760 is of course far superior to any camera I have ever seen. It's quite amazing.

The biggest drawback of the CX760 is that Sony did the typical "Handycam" manual setting crippling trick. You cannot adjust "gain", "shutter" and "iris" at the same time. You can pick only 1 to set. Selecting another will clear the last. You can run under a a manual shutter speed and ride the auto EV+/- to get the exposure you want but that not great for all situations.Luckily, Sony DID allow the CX760 to have selectable gain limit settings,..whew! Thank God!

Also,..."gain" levels are never displayed on your screen during shooting. You can view real time gain levels only on playback after the video is shot. The NX70, of course, does not have this problem.

One last thing. The CX760 has a GREAT zoom rocker. It is very smooooooth. You can get very nice slow creeping zooms with it. Even with a LANC controller too! (something the NX70 can't say even with the new firmware update)

Hope this is helpful.

CT

BTW...if the new NX30 has FULL manual controls like the NX70? I will sell my new CX760 and pickup an NX30 for sure.

I was about to mention the NX30. According to the initial specs, it should have full controls like the gamut of Sony's Professional line hence the price increase over the consumer model.

So I'm guessing with that said the NX30 should make for one tidy little camcorder.

I will get the NX30 too and replace my CX700. I think the image difference may be the fact that the CX760 has a Zeiss lens with the older Sony's having a Sony G lens. When one factors in the mic and holder as well as likely the larger battery from the CX760 the price difference is not that great for the other controls. I think the NX30 with a Ninja may also be a better choice than the PMW100.

Ron Evans

Here are the differences that I have discovered:

2.) CX760 will go 3db higher in gain.(max of 24db) where the NX70 stops only at 21db. So you can get a brighter image on the top end of the CX760. (note: I noticed that noise levels at 21db were virtually identical on both cams)


The NX70 will go to 24db if you enable Low Lux.

Rey

Good catch, I stand corrected!

The two certainly are extremely similar. The biggest notable differences to me are:

NX70 Pros = Weatherproof, good lens ring and large screen.
CX760 Pros = Balanced Stabilization, slightly better lens and perfect zoom rocker

NX70 Cons = Horrible zoom issue.
CX760 Cons = "Handycam" manual control crippling.

If the new NX30 is allowed to have FULL manual control? Than the only advantage I can see with the NX70 is it's weatherproofing and larger Pro "look".

I'm just totally amazed by the new balanced stabilization. I can see this working it's way into many Pro Sony cams in the future!

in the UK we have the 740 version (32g memory)
can't say the Zeiss lens is THAT much better than the G lens on the CX700, still a lot of red fringing on telephoto, perhaps slightly more contrast on wide, but flares more easy even with the supplied hood.
I hate the 17x extended digital zoom which you cannot switch off in steadyshot active mode, to make things worse there is no mark on the zoom bar to show when you are past the optical zoom and are digitally zooming.
So i'm having to use standard steadyshot which is 10x optical only, kind of dumb and defeats the object as max telephoto is super steady but fuzzy dv looking in active mode!

Plus point is the assignable "my buttons' on the LCD which you can choose any 3 items from the menu, i'm set for 1 touch focus / steadyshot / gain limit, so with the front dial on focus there isquite a bit of control on a small cam.

Paul. Can you explain more about your problem with the 17x extended zoom?
Thanks.

Mike

[QUOTE=Mike Burgess;1747603]Paul. Can you explain more about your problem with the 17x extended zoom?
Thanks.


Mike, The problem with this cam after getting quite a few hours in are as follows,
The wide to upper mid telephoto on the lens is very high quality, but i'm finding like other posters that the full telephoto end is very soft with bad pink fringing.
i'm resorting to using only two thirds of the zoom and keeping to standard steadyshot only as the so called 17x zoom is just a crop of the sensor which kicks in if you use steadyshot active mode, so with a already poor tele top end, what was Sony thinking cropping an already soft image and turning it to mush?

Thanks
Paul

The OIS can be Off, standard or in active mode, in standard and active mode the lens moves to help with balancing the image but in active mode the camera automatically zooms a few percent in on the image, most probably to use the zoomed in area as extra space to provide additional balancing.

So even if you are at full wide, in active mode the camera zooms in on the image meaning you loose a bit of that very wide angle and you gain some in the telereach. So you do loose a bit image quality but in real life you don't notice it from a normal viewing distance, unless you pixelpeep. The vespa zoom shot I linked to in the other cx760 post (http://youtu.be/i8VYXkR4ylU)was done in active mode I realize now, so 17x zoom and I don't see anything wrong with it.

You also have a digital zoom that enlarges 120x but the image falls apart very quickly in that mode.

[QUOTE=Noa Put;1747659]The OIS ca
So you do loose a bit image quality but in real life you don't notice it from a normal viewing distance, unless you pixelpeep. The vespa zoom shot I linked to in the other cx760 post (vespa - YouTube (http://youtu.be/i8VYXkR4ylU))was done in active mode I realize now, so 17x zoom and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Nora, no need for pexel peeping at my end, it just is soft and not very HD at all at the tele end, i'm not a Sony Basher, I have gone through most of the CX series and this is a real problem which I feel should be pointed out . I have a work around but prospective buyers might wonder why a advertised 17x zoom cant even pass muster to 10x

Thanks
Paul

The cropping is to enable the active mode which is EIS allowing room on the sensor to move the image around and take account of rotation as well as shaking. I think that the 17x zoom is just a result of the scaling/processing to do this rather than a deliberate attempt to get more zoom. Marketing just couldn't resist the temptation !!!! However I am happy with my CX700 with Active as in this mode I mainly use to walk or ski next to family etc and it is then mostly full wide angle. For more serious stuff its on a tripod with stabilizer off. I too am looking at the NX30 to be B camera to the NX5U with matching timecode will be useful and since it will be unattended will be auto mode anyway so full manual is not that important as I have figured out how to use the small Sony's to my satisfaction. Spot focus and AE shift are very good features !!!! Being able to set a gain limit will be useful though the CX700 has less grain at 21db than the NX5U at 9db or the EX3 for that matter.

Ron Evans

[
Nora, no need for pexel peeping at my end, it just is soft and not very HD at all at the tele end, i'm not a Sony Basher, I have gone through most of the CX series and this is a real problem which I feel should be pointed out .

Your probably right Paul, thing is that I don't use that active OIS anymore since I noticed it zooms in so I just stay in standard OIS which is very good as well. For that few times I did use active OIS and zoomed in completely I didn't notice the image was that much softer on my big screen, like the vespa zoomshot, but there wasn't that much fine detail in the background. I"ll do some tests, just for my own use, to see how much it does loose at 17x zoom so I know if it is usable when I need it.

Noa
take another look, will be interested to see what you think, I had the 740 before sending it back in time to go for the nx30, both have the same image quality good and bad.

I wonder if these will be the last generation of hi end 1/2 inch handycams when even cameras like the Sony Cybershot RX100 now have a 1 inch sensor with active mode?

"I wonder if these will be the last generation of hi end 1/2 inch handycams when even cameras like the Sony Cybershot RX100 now have a 1 inch sensor with active mode? "

Let's hope not. The RX100 not only has a very limited zoom range (and you cannot turn off *digital* (no extended) zoom), but it produces video that is much softer than any of the camcorders you are discussing here and is filled with artifacts, like all the big sensor cameras that do video (GH2 perhaps an exception).

The RX100 is an amazing feat for a stills camera, but has not solved how to make good videos with a big sensor.

h

The RX100 is an amazing feat for a stills camera, but has not solved how to make good videos with a big sensor.

Today we have more and more choice than ever, but never a perfect solution, thats progress I guess!

Small dedicated camcorders have a place (albeit a small niche, as I suggested in another DVi thread), so they aren't likely to completely disappear, but as a practical matter, there is not a lot of room to boost performance if you really think about it...

More zoom? Not practical given lens physics, and digital... well, it's a mixed bag. Higher bitrate? Maybe, but in a consumer cam, they aren't going to push much past what a BR can record, at least for now. Smaller? Again, maybe, but ergonomics dictates there's a limit on miniaturization... Better image quality? OK, there's probably ALWAYS some room for improvement...

Ultimately, other than 2k/4k, where would the "improvements" come from? While I doubt the niche will vanish entirely, it's likely to stagnate, and suffer from all the phones, small still cameras, and DSLR/SLT's eating into the "functional space" - there are a LOT of HD image acquisition devices available, many at far lower price points, where a little "loss" of image quality won't be a big consideration.

"but as a practical matter, there is not a lot of room to boost performance if you really think about it..."

I am glad you do not work for a camera company! :).

If you had made that statement last year, for example, you would have been wrong: the stabilization design in the CX760 is very innovative and *may* be a quantum improvement in non-degrading stabilization. Perhaps with improvements in that technology (which is helped by a small sensor thus smaller lens) we can eliminate steadicams. Those rigs could be laughable in few years and open up a large number of creative possibilties.

There is still the challenge of getting sharp, artifact-free video from a big sensor. Right now it is a trade-off and there is no physical law that indicates why this cannot be accomplished. There is a lot of room for improvement in big-sensor video. And having more control of dof in a small package with good quality video would be a breakthrough, for which the RX100 comes close but is not there.

Interestingly, it seems that Sony is on the forefront of innovation.

Perhaps with improvements in that technology (which is helped by a small sensor thus smaller lens) we can eliminate steadicams.

There is already technology that has advanced stabilisation, just look at the tour de France when they are zooming in with a camera attached to a helicopter, it's rock steady. But steadicam's I don't see being replaced, you can do slow movements to the front, side or up and down and lock onto a subject but a real steadicam move is more then just a lens that can move as an eye.