Ok, so, I’ve figured out that my chepo tripod is never going to pan no matter what tricks are attempted with it. My question is this – and please be kind; I obviously don’t know much about this stuff.

When looking at tripods and heads – I’m wondering something; on my chepo the ball head and the legs are infinitely adjustable for the most part to compensate for uneven ground. The higher quality tripods seem to have locked positions and aren’t infinitely adjustable like that and I can’t tell if the heads that I’m looking at have any adjustment to compensate. Am I just not seeing how this happens?

I’m looking at these heads:
Manfrotto 701HDV
Manfrotto 700RC2 Mini Video Fluid Head

And possibly these legs:
Manfrotto 190XPROB

Are these legs strictly for photography and the ball heads, etc.?

Ok, this video shows what I’m referencing to some degree – this very high end setup allows you to have infinite adjustment of the head. Otherwise I am assuming that just sticking a leg out a little bit here and there is going to leave you a little uneven?

ADMC instructional video tripod basics - YouTube (http://youtu.be/ydqRBk7Om4w)

You can educate yourself as to what features are desirable in a video tripod by reading the reviews Chris Soucy has posted to the ARTICLES section. Click on the link at the top of the page to find them. The most recent is:

Feature Articles
Review: Vinten Vision blue5 Video Support System
Written by Chris Soucy on April 15, 2012 | Filed Under Features

Scroll to the bottom and click the OLDER ENTRIES link to find more.

By reading the reviews you will be able to test each tripod you consider to determine if it will meet your needs. I followed the series and selected the Vinten Blue based on Chris' review.

Hi, Jason............

We seem to have two parallel threads going on this.

Rather than clutter things any more, I'll just point you to this thread, which, much to my astonishment, has been disinterred from the grave after 2 years!

Check this out: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-sticks-heads/70707-inside-bogen-501-a-2.html

Anything you want to know, just ask.


CS

Awesome! I’m glad that I was really seeing an issue and not just asking a dumb question. I have barely used the cheapo Manftrotto that I have now, but I already saw how that little bit of play in the ball head (even in ‘video mode’) really helped to level a few shots that I was playing around with.

Thanks for the response!

Jason...you have come to the right place. There are 'expert users' and OEM technical experts on this site with decades of experience in the DV world. You're in good hands.

I come from a 'stills photog' background, I thought I knew all there is to know about tripods. Boy was I wrong! Video tripods are a very different critter. Heh, heh!

The only warning I have, is get ready to back your ears down and get a hold of your wallet! Good fluid heads and sticks are expensive. One other thing, do not compromise when buying a tripod system, if it annoys you when you first buy it, chances are after using it on a few shoots, the 'annoyance' will turn into a real PITA.

Enjoy the journey.

Best regards,

J.

Hi guys.............

Jason, if you've read my last post in the thread I indicated, I think I'll transfer the discussion here, as the thread title "Inside a Bogen 501" or whatever, isn't really what is being discussed.

I've also asked the mods if they'll re - name this thread to something a bit more appropriate, and transfer the relevant posts from the other thread to here.

So, what I need to know from both yourself and Victor is:

1. What are you shooting with, how much does it weigh and is it headed for HD or SD o/p.

2. What type of stuff you shoot and any special needs required to do it

3. If you want to up your game in the support field, how much by and how deep are your pockets.

I assume that in both your cases the answer to the implied question in 3 (a) is yes, else you wouldn't be asking questions.

Fire away guys, I'm all ears


CS

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond; it really has helped me to figure this out a little better than I might otherwise have. I do see that many of you here are professionals and I hate to trash up the neighborhood with my newb questions, but this forum certainly seems to be the premiere source on the internet from what I have found after a pretty good bit of searching.

That much said; I am taking an interest in bettering my setup and possibly picking up on the skills that I see others incorporate into their videos, etc. At least as much as my meager budget will allow for in pursuit of this ‘hobby.’

Chris, I almost hate to answer your questions as if I have a setup to brag about. I only last year picked up a Canon HF S20 refurb (which was in surprisingly perfect condition – not a clue it was a refurb). So, the camera is only a little over a pound. I may pick up an external mic at some point, but right now it doesn’t even have an external mic.

I’m not focused on one particular subject really. I am tinkering with a documentary that includes attendance of a number of town hall meetings and various civic minded events – generally static shots that my current cheapo works well for. The new camera and computer build are geared toward HD on Blu-ray. I’m sure I will encode to a number of formats for online distribution via Vimeo, streaming on Youtube, and DVD’s.

What really compelled me to look into a new tripod setup was attendance of an Olympic trials event for kayaking and canoeing hosted locally a few weeks ago. I didn’t even attempt to pan with the cheapo Manfrotto Compact Series tripod that I bought last fall. It’s pointless and a little embarrassing to fumble with. Not to knock it too hard though – it just isn’t suited for panning.

Sorry, I’ll quit rambling; I’m now looking at these options:

Manfrotto 755XB MDeVe Aluminum Video Tripod Legs - 755XB B&H

I’d like to get this head possibly, but there is a combo deal on the entry level Manfrotto on Amazon that makes me think about it:

Manfrotto 701HDV Pro Fluid Video Mini Head 701HDV B&H Photo

Thanks for the reply Jason, now I've got something to work on.

A 1lb camera is certainly a challenge and at the budget level you're looking at, I think you can kiss correct counterbalance goodbye - though, in fairness, a 1lb camera isn't exactly going to challenge a tilt drag system all that much, if it works properly.

Interesting stuff you're looking at. I think maybe Manfrotto have started to learn that "the same old, same old" will continue to get a right kicking (from me) unless they up their collective act.

Having said that, I can't and won't recommend anything I haven't personally given the CS "kiss of death tests" to, and as I have an infinitly better chance of winning the lottery than finding a set of what you're looking at on my doorstep any time soon, looks like you're going to have to do the testing.

My gut feel for what you're looking at? I have to be really carefull here, as I'll be comparing apples to pinapples, perhaps unfairly.

Don't expect the panning to be stellar, better than what you have most probably, but not stellar.

Single tube sticks are always a bit of a horror for me, the only ones I've ever death tested were the Manfrotto 528XB's, and you sure as heck don't want to be using them for run'n'gun, tough as old boots though they are.

Given you're budgetry constraints, I'd say why not give 'em a try and see how it works out, I'm sure if anyone is in a better position to offer alternative advice they'll pipe up.

You figured out that attempting "Pro" video is a bloody expensive business yet?


CS

Thanks! Yeah, I am pretty shocked at how much money people can get tied up in this. I have been really enthused to see the DSLR ‘revolution’ of sorts in putting the tech in the hands of individuals to have the capability to make a film suitable for the big screen, but I personally am not in a position to invest even that kind of money into a DSLR setup. Nonetheless, it is exciting to see the trickledown of the technology into more affordable options.

For me; dropping over $350 on a tripod and head is pretty hard to stomach and quite honestly – I have other things that are a priority to me at this point. I know that sounds pretty nominal in light of what most of you all spend on your equipment.

I’m thrilled to finally get my hands on a GoPro Hero 2 very recently if that puts any perspective on things. I’ve been watching those for over six months before pulling the trigger.

Anyway, it gives me something to do to research what it is that I need to be looking for in a more workable tripod and head setup. I’m glad that I at least realized that a still photography tripod would have been a mistake and I was tempted to consider purchasing one.

Jason, if you go back to some of my posts you will see that I had the same dilemma that you have. You know you have the wrong set of sticks and head but you have only so much money you are willing to devote to a new "proper" set. Well, long story short, I purchased a set that cost me more than I was willing to budget but in the end I am very glad I did as I will only purchase one set rather than upgrading later. I shoot our kids sports and now I can keep up with any basketball going down the court or a long pass being caught and run down the field with ease. The difference in what I had and what I have is immense and I cannot tell you how much better my video is. I also shoot with a 1lb camera but there are things you have to do in order to make it work on a higher end head due to the lack of weight.

Chris S got me to look at something I would have never looked at or purchased being so new at this but overall it is one of the best things I have spent money on. If you plan on doing this a few years then look at what you might want for that time rather than what you can live with today. The long run approach is what worked best for me as I have 3 more years of kids in high school.

RD

Jason, I would suggest you stretch your tripod budget as far as you can go and look for a better used tripod than buy a lower quality new one. If you can find a good deal you will be able to loose nothing when you are ready to upgrade or in some cases you may get really lucky and make a little on the resale. I marched through 4 tripods on my way to my current setup. My path went Libec, Cartoni, Miller, and finally to the Sachtler that I have now. I made money on the Cartoni and Miller when I sold them and found a great deal on a used Sachtler so it made it affordable. I know it seems crazy to spend so much on a tripod system but remember that it is and integral part of your entire camera setup. As already pointed out, you will most likely change cameras several times while sticking with the same tripod.

A few good matches for your camera that might be worth looking for are the Libec LS-22DV. It's a decent tripod and head. It's a fixed counter balance so you may need to add weight here and there to get a good balance. The Sachtler ACE is a bit above your price range but it would be a great match for your camera and allow you room to grow if you upgrade your camera or eventually get into a DSLR setup. I'm not sure if you could find a used ACE or how much they would be discounted but you never know, you might get lucky.

Jason...I agree with Garrett. If you can't purchase 'new' go for a 'used' really good tripod. The problem here is used tripods, if they're a 'good' OEM, will be almost as expensive as 'new'. As I've said, I come from a landscape 'stills' photography background, a stable tripod was the difference between selling an image or not.

The DVI 'Classified' ads are where I'd start my search for a used Fluid-Head system.

Best regards,

J.

Hi it's me again... Anyway, I have the manfrotto 055xprob
Manfrotto 055XPROB Aluminum Tripod Legs (Black) 055XPROB B&H

It doesn't have the ball leveler and it's annoying the heck out of me. But buying a leveler cost freaking $100.
Manfrotto 438 Compact Leveling Head - Ball Camera Leveler 438

So should I sell it and buy the one Jason is buying or get the head leveler?

Hi, Victor................

The problem with the rig you have is that it is designed for flat bottomed heads. So far so good, but.......

Apart from the cheaper Manfrotto's and a few (?, is it that many?) Sachtlers which have flat or can be changed for flat bottom use, you're pretty well stuck for an upgrade path without having a ball leveler tripod.

Spending $100 on the indicated leveler is all very well, but still no closer to getting the "real deal" of a ball leveler set of sticks.

In addition, whilst you can convert any flat bottomed head that uses the standard 3/8" stud mounting, to a half ball head with a Manfrotto 500 or 520Ball adapter, it's only possible to convert Manfrotto half ball heads to flat bottom use with the aid of another adapter, the name of which escapes me.

The reason for that is the adapter only accepts Manfrotto pattern clamp bolts.

My advice, for what it's worth, is:

1. Sell the sticks you have, throw in the other $100 you would have had to spend on the levele, maybe a few more pennies and bite the bullet on a proper half bowl tripod.

The only real problem with that advice is that with that budget your grubbing along the bottom of the support pond and whatever you get for that sum won't be very good.

2. My stock answer in these situations is to advise you sell your mom, dad & both sets of grandparents into slavery, hock the house and go for a Vinten Vision blue or the equivalent Sachtler.

Interestingly, option 2. mostly doesn't go down too well.

I think at this stage, as you probably won't go with option 2, is factor in what you might get for your current rig and figure out just how much extra you can throw at this, and we'll let the lads figure out what you can get for it.

For some reason I just started wondering what you'd get a second hand set of Manfotto 350's or even 525's for. Neither of them is stellar but they'd probably do in a pinch.

If you could scrape up $440 you could get a brand new set of Manfrotto 486B's, actually exceedingly good sticks, the only problem being their mid level spreader will drive you to drink in very short order.

Judging by the number of 486B/ 504HD systems hitting the s/h market, they seems to be causing quite an epidemic of sozzled videog's.

I still favour option 2.


CS

Chris, I should probably go back and read what rig Victor is going to put on the tripod, but is there a reason you wouldn't consider the Sachtler ACE? I haven't had a chance to spend a lot of time with one, only go to play with it really quickly, but for under $600 it seemed like a really nice setup.

I agree that the Vinten VB is a great little setup but it's also twice the price.

-Garrett

The reason I wouldn't recommend the Ace is pretty simple.

Every review I've seen or read about it has been less than gushing with praise for the sticks, which, when you consider most of the reviewers are somehow gaining financialy for their troubles, speaks volumes.

Sachtler just can't make good cheap sticks (IMHO)

Libec and Manfrotto can, or rather could, if only both companies would shoot whomever currently designs their spreaders. The exception to that is Libecs LS 72, which seems to be highly praised by all.

The reason the VB is such a killer combination is that what you're basically paying for is the sticks, spreader and case. You get the head for free. And that is one heck of a good set of sticks! Head ain't bad either.

There isn't, to my knowledge, any other manufacturer on the planet who can offer a full Pro support system at the VB's price point.

Everybody else at that price is offering what I'd call semi Pro or even Amateur rigs.

However, I digress. I'm not sure I know what Victor want to park on top of whatever he ends up with, probably way too small/ light for the VB, but I could be wrong.

We'll see.


CS

Chris, I would agree with you that Sachtler's entry level sticks are less than stellar. Depending on how much weight you're going to put on them they can do a good job though. However, that is exactly why I have my Sachtler head on Vinten stick. If I had my first choice it would be on a set of Sachtler HD sticks, those are amazing, but expensive.

-Garrett

Yeah, I got myself well and truly into the dog house with Barbara at Sachtler on the subject.

I suggested they ditch the Ace and the 75 CF sticks and buy the Libec RT - 30B sticks, re badge them Sachtler, replace the spreader with something worthy of them and the leg locks for Vintens, hey presto, a support system that's right up there for way less than $200 (to Sachtler), heck, they're only $216 retail at B&H!

Don't think it went down all that well, she hasn't talked to me since.

Shame, as it would really have been a system I could say: "Go for it!"

Ho Hum, as they say.


CS

I mainly shoot with DSLR and some time I put a slider on there too. Chris is this the manfrotto 486b you're talking about? Because I can't find it on B&H or Amazon.
Manfrotto 486 Compact Ball Head 486 B&H Photo Video
Also where would be the best place to sell my family into slavery?

Appologies, Victor, I screwed up with the unit designation, happens a lot. The tripod I meant is this one:

Manfrotto 546B Pro Video Tripod w/Mid-level Spreader 546B B&H


As previously said, great set of sticks, not far behind the Vintens in fact, and I mean within a whisker.

Everything's fine till you get to the mid level spreader, where it all dissapears down the plug hole.

Awefull doesn't even begin to cover it. OK if you never, ever, under any circumstances, extend it.

God help you if you do.

As for selling the familly into slavery, I hear Somalia is a pretty hot market at the moment, though S. E. Asia and the entire ex Soviet Union seem to have booming trades as well.

Heck, I'm sure you wouldn't have too much trouble selling 'em in the States with the proper advertising.

E-bay and CraigsList are your friends, and who needs familly when decent camera support is in the equation?

[In case anyone thinks I'm really serious here - I almost am!]


CS

If it helps Victor, I was just in the same boat, and ended up following Chris's advice after reading his (and others) reviews.

I bought a Vinten Vision Blue package on eBay, and besides the annoying fact that the head moves in transit, it is amazing.

I used this setup this week at a conference, and found the height to be good (but a hassle to shoot from without a riser, something to stand on, or a Lanc controller and monitor), the floor spreader to be rather brilliant in a conference environment (although I do intend to get a mid spreader for outdoor work), and the weight to be reasonable.

All up cost me about ~$1100 on eBay, which while more than I wanted to spend, was far less than realistic alternatives.

Now if only I could get used to panning on a nice fluid head...

Victor/Ryan...I love the VB, so much, I bought a VB system. Unfortunately, I underestimated my overall weight and more importantly, my Center of Gravity (CoG), which forced me to go another way. The VB is designed for 'small form-factor' cameras, and will do a marvelous job if the weight and CoG do not exceed the design capacity of the unit. As I said, the VB is designed for 'small form-factor' cameras with a CoG of ~55mm, whereas most fluid-heads are designed with a CoG of ~125mm. This simply means, if you camera's CoG exceeds 55mm in height, it will decease the load bearing capability of the mount. I discovered, with my Sony HXR-NX5 somewhat pimped out (~10.2 lbs) I exceeded the design capability of the mount. So, be careful.

Best regards to all,

J.

True. I only really had the NX5, SM5 shock mount and NTG3 on it, and it was fine. A light, wireless receivers, etc might push it over the edge.

But isn't your big problem the Samurai James? Couldn't you mount that to the legs of the tripod instead?

Ryan...yes, in fact, there was a discussion on mounting the Samurai (Ninja) on the tripod leg of a Gitzo 1325 Mk. II using a Manfrotto 'Big Clamp', in the 'NX5' section. The gentleman attached images of his rig. Very nice layout.

Regards,

J.

Ryan...yes, in fact, there was a discussion on mounting the Samurai (Ninja) on the tripod leg of a Gitzo 1325 Mk. II using a Manfrotto 'Big Clamp', in the 'NX5' section. The gentleman attached images of his rig. Very nice layout. .

I prefer to keep my external recorder on my camera for a few reasons. It gives me the ability to quickly pull my camera from the tripod and be able to go run and gun without having to detach additional devices. And, I have mine set up so that I can see it from the back of my camera. That way I can quickly glance over at it every once in a while to make sure nothing has gone wrong.

-Garrett

Garrett...I agree. I would only use this set-up in a situation where I know it'll be static. The example given was in a cramped booth, overlooking and recording a High School football game. It appeared to work well in that application. Most of the time my Atomos Samurai stays on the camera. I now have a Fluid Head that will handle the payload with the Samurai mounted on the front Cold Shoe.

As always Garrett, you insight is appreciated. Thanks, man!

Regards,

J.

Again, thank you all for taking the time to respond! I’m surveying what used equipment is going for and seeing what might be the best option for me. The Ace is so new – I doubt many of them will be up for sale, but who knows I might get lucky! If the GoPro Hero vs. Hero2 (new) sales were any indication – they will likely bring a premium that makes used vs. new negligible in savings.

Update; I finally got aggressive on Ebay and picked up a Manfrotto 755xb after losing a few auctions on them. It appears to be in pristine condition! The 701 heads are bringing astonishing sums though; $10 short of brand new from B&H/Amazon prices. I can’t imagine why anyone would bid them so high.

Anyway, I’m piecing this together. It being purely a ‘hobby’ makes this a pretty extravagant expenditure for me, but I’m looking forward to making some sweet fluid pans and tilts when I get the head to go with it. LOL

I got to talk to a Manfrotto Rep at the local ‘Grand Opening’ of a camera store that changed hands. When I told him my proposed setup with the 755xb and 701 head he called it a ‘sweet setup.’ LOL So, I guess I’m headed in the right direction according to him anyway.

Thanks for your guidance on this. I know I’m not the same caliber of most of you here, but I have fun with it and my life is rather compromised otherwise – so, it’s something that brings me a bit of enjoyment to tinker with.