Ray> Thanks Ian, that was one of my guesses. I guess I was just hoping that the difference would be a bit more substantial than what I'm currently seeing and hoping that there was a setting I might have missed that would get it there.

- Ray

Tip>
Try it again in the morning, in the correct lighting conditions it was designed to work in. Would you test drive your new sports car on the neighbours paddock? :-)

lol, will do, already grateful for the 24p, been waiting on them to do that for awhile now. Actually held off on buying one until the announcement. Just couldn't help wishing with the ProTune/35Mbps there would be a little more latitude in mid/low light and shadows but at least I got one thing on the checklist =)

- Ray

lol, will do, already grateful for the 24p, been waiting on them to do that for awhile now. Actually held off on buying one until the announcement. Just couldn't help wishing with the ProTune/35Mbps there would be a little more latitude in mid/low light and shadows but at least I got one thing on the checklist =)

- Ray

Actually it has more latitude with ProTune but yeah it's never gunna be good in poor light, no camera really is, that's the key hey, horses for courses.

Samsung WX300, gee that must a popular camera google knows nothing about it.

You forgot wide angle, nearly every POV camera has at least 110 - 170 diagonal FOV and is most of the reason why POV footage is watchable, without it it wouldn't be a shaky mess. As you have seen with the Sony image, in-camera stabilization is as good as useless in a PoV cams in most cases, it may improve over time when better technology is available at the price point. Not denying some of the pocket able cameras have better image Q, but they are not suitable for POV cameras for 95% of users.

Sorry Samsung w300. Good point about the fov. But I am going to try a moving vehicle video with different cameras to see.

Sorry Samsung w300. Good point about the fov. But I am going to try a moving vehicle video with different cameras to see.

Mate it's hello jello on that camera just like your camera phone, and the auto focus is too slow and AF is useless on a POV cam. One little knock and that baby is history. Mark, I've played with all the non POV stuff and used them for POV without success, gave up on that path, just not suitable nor are the Panasonic, Canon, Olympus and Fuji so called "Rugged "cameras. The one Good thing was the CCD sensor based ones, no jello, but the flare and vertical streaking from the sun was an image killer.

The first company that comes up with small form factor or even a separate head and recorder with global shutter gets my money. POV VIO 1 had one but too big and not HD. Something around $600-800 and i would be all over a dozen of them. It will happen.

Anything mounted to a car will be smooth if it's done right. Inside, i use a fabric bag of rice to rest the camera on. Last video is not mine. Yes it's a GoPro on an F1 car

GoPro Car mount low on Vimeo
Gopro Car Pan test at 59.94fps D/C half speed on Vimeo
GoPro motion blur3 on Vimeo
jenson button bathurst on Vimeo

Here is what it looks like on the car. Not bad considering all the different exposures of light it has to adjust too. Jelly seems to be less too...Well done :-)

Raw files dumped straight into EDIUS, added some adjustments and rendered out this 1920/1080 @12mbps MPEG4 clip.

GoPro Hero 2 ProTune Car Test - YouTube (http://youtu.be/b1Q-OXrEk3c)

Thanks quite impressive Paul.

What mode was that shot at???

Also I didn't get an answer from Ian so at 1080 25T what record time you you get with either a 16GB or 32GB card??? The USA cams seem to get double what I get!! On 32GB I get 1hr23mins and 41mins on a 16GB ... are yours much the same? In the USA at 1080 30T they are reporting times like 2nrs 58mins!!

Chris

Hi Chris,

I get 42 mins with an empty 16gb card ready to shoot at 1080 25T, 58 mins for 720 60T. Not good is it ?

With Protune on, the time elapsed counter at the top of the LCD screen is not shown during recording only on playback - which is also a pity.

This is my play on Protunes....
David at Cineform has over the years brought the Cineform platform up from just an intermediary video editing solution to a product that still does the intermediary function but he also over the years added additional capability for color grading.... so when Canon was the big buz word in video many folks attempted to create flatter profiles in an attempt at creating RAW type files from those cameras. that could take color grading correctly... thus the profile tune was added to the GoPro camera..
David pushed the Pro version of Cineform with the ability for color grading and then when GoPro bought out Cineform David became interested in that camera and how to better integrate the output of the camera to his color grading efforts in the Pro Version of Cineform products... so he set out to flatten the output of the camera and to let his cineform platform take over the post production color grades..... a very good example
of this is in this video on how to properly grade a shot....( this is Canon footage, but works exactly the same for the GoPro Protune)
Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Color Space Up-conversion Tutorial on Vimeo
If you take the GoPro Protune footage and apply the work flow in that video you will get fantastic results from the Protune " RAW " type of footage. And that was what David had in mind when you put the ProTune GoPro together with the Pro Versions of Cineform... and it works perfectly...

Well I just updated my two GoPos and it says 58 min for 720 60T and 1hr 28min for 1080 30T on a 16GB card. Using 720p60 I was getting about 2 hours using around 11-12 GB before so that seems about what it should be.
Have you guys in pal land tried recording to see what you really get on a full card ?

Gordon

Does one have to pass the ProTune footage through Cineform software or can you put the ProTune footage directly in an NLE?

You can put the Protune footage native in the NLE, there are advantages to convert to cineform AVI but you don't have to use cineform at all if you don't want it in your work flow...

Thanks for the quick response!

Over all the app is OK but not perfect they need to make a big improvement in the latency issue there's about a 5 second delay. I haven't fully tested pro tune but it seems nice

I upgraded and saw that very long delay, too. I was hoping to use it as a wireless viewfinder but that's not possible.

ProTune makes the image a whole lot better, tho, so the upgrade is worth it. And while I haven't tested it yet, the ability to configure and possibly operate the GoPro through an iPhone looks like a very nice tool.

Another raw file; yeah, it’s not perfection – this one has some pumpkins and flowers from Whole Foods in it that sort of show some good color examples with the Protune before any post processing.

GoPro Hero 2 Protune First Tests on Vimeo

Just wondering if since the update anyone else has tried bringing the raw footage straight to their NLE without converting? Before the update I had no issues, files played back great in VLC Media Player and in Sony Vegas, after the update shooting 24p with ProTune enabled raw files are pretty much un-viewable in both. After converting I have no issues but obviously would prefer not to have to take that extra step.

- Ray

Just a note about Protune -

Protune is simply a mode in the camera that bypasses all of the in-camera settings that are added to the file to make it look pleasing to the 'consumer' out of the box. The other big addition it gives is the high bit-rate. This you'll only see an advantage in complex scenes or high motion. No it won't make a static shot look better necessarily (unless you're keen to less sharpening), it also won't do anything to rolling shutter - that's a product of the CMOS frame speed and vibration.

Why is it noisier? In-camera noise reduction is turned off, also the shadows are brought up to give more detail incase the user wants it..in standard color curves in the camera, lows are crushed to black so you never see the noise.

All that said, for the pro trying to utilize the camera in a PRO workflow, it will do heaps in matching to the other cameras being used.

Biggest uses I've seen are mountain bike, snow, and surf - all of which are complex scenes with high motion, high highlights, and dark low lights.

Raymond, I have tried Protune footage in Vegas 12 and in VLC and it has been fine. Can your editing machine deal with other demanding formats without transcoding?

Vegas 12 does of course now have the facility to create proxies so that could be the way forward for you.

I'm still actually editing in Vegas 11 rather than 12 as I have unresolved issues with how 12 deals with some pan and crop presets I fcreated for use with still image slideshows - which I do a lot.

Pete

Yea Pete, I don't have any problems with any straight out of the camera footage from Sony F3, any of the Canon DSLR's, or 4k raw Red files without the need for proxies. Not sure what it could be about my system that it isn't liking about the new format, as I said it's not just in Vegas but VLC as well which has no problem with pre-firmware update GoPro footage at all.

- Ray

Thanks Mike

That's roughly the record time I get as well. I still am mystified that the guys in the USA seem to get 1hr 28mins on a 16GB card in 1080 30T mode (so that's with Protune on?) and in 1080 25T here in PAL land we only get 41 or 42 minutes

Anyone else with a camera in PAL getting a longer record time like the USA cameras??

Chris

Just a heads up, take note of what Abe said above, not only does it explain well what ProTune is but as GoPros Head Editor you got it straight from the "'horses mouth"

Thanks for the explanation Abe.

Ok Chris,
Just to throw a little more confusion to the equation. I just changed the format to pal & i still have the same amount of time showing; 2h 58min.??? I don't get it. I have tried formatting the card, but that doesn't seem to change anything either. I have just turned protune off & in 1080-30p it is showing 4h 45min.
I will try recording a clip & time it, & see what the time remaining counts down to & let you know.

Bryce

Ok, so i just checked again, & sure enough, the time remaining goes down equal to the length of the clip as it records. I also just checked the settings & recorded two clips, one without protune on, & with with it on. The one without is recorded at 14999kbps & the one with protune turned on is recorded at 35110kbps according to Gspot.
I can't understand why your recording time is so short for a 32gb card.
Bryce

Hi Bryce

I found out what the issue is!! It's the frame rate!! At 1080 25T on a 16GB card I have 41 mins ..if I change the mode to 1080 30T (still in PAL) I now get 1hr29mins which would be the same as your 2hr 58mins on a 32GB card.

I wonder why a 25T frame rate needs so much more space??? If you set yours to 25T you will also see the time effectively cut in half!!! Just for interest if you set to 24T you get 1hr 10mins which is still better than the 25t mode.

Anyone else know why the 25T mode eats up so much card space??? What are the PAL guys shooting in??

Chris

Ok this is getting weird now!!

I set my cam to 1080 30T and it automatically set itself to NTSC not PAL...so I went into the menu again and changed NTSC back to PAL and voila..it changed the frame rate from 1080 30T to 1080 25T and I now have 1hr 29mins on a 16GB card.

All I can think is that the camera might have switched back to NTSC and by setting a 25P mode it needs lots of space to do the 30t to 25t conversion.

It's definately now on PAL and 1080 25T and has the correct amount of space...so it seems if you play around with modes you MUST go back and check everything else too to make sure they are still set correctly...also when you change frame video mode it also seems to reset FOV too!! However it kept ProTune on!!

Chris

Editing the raw ProTune files in EDIUS with CC is a piece of cake here.

I find as the H.264 compression in DSLR's cannot handle solid tones to set the colour in the camera before you shoot. Do it later and you enjoy all the compression banding. Converting to another codec is a waste of time too as the compression banding is there in the raw footage to start with. Just a limitation with H.264. As one cannot set the color on the little GoPro's then you have no choice but to shoot flat.

I converted the Pro Tune to Canopus HQ fine avi and there is no difference in quality when adding in the same CC just makes mega huge files.... so just edit the raw ProTune files if your NLE can.

Ok this is getting weird now!!

I set my cam to 1080 30T and it automatically set itself to NTSC not PAL...so I went into the menu again and changed NTSC back to PAL and voila..it changed the frame rate from 1080 30T to 1080 25T and I now have 1hr 29mins on a 16GB card.

Chris

Are you going off the numbers the display says? or recording time you're actually getting? I wouldn't be surprised if the display time left was off...

Hi Abe

I'm simply looking at the time on the front display... I'll go thru the settings again and double check everything. Now on my Panasonic cameras, at 24mbps I get 97mins on a 16GB card so to me 1hr29 sounds totally off if it's recording at 35 mbps the 41 min figure sounds a lot more accurate. The display could quite rightly be highly inaccurate!! I'll give it an 40 min run in the morning here at a wedding I'm doing and see if the actual record time and display get better

Thanks for the help

Chris

I tinkered with mine in Premiere last night – my first ever attempt to do anything besides apply ‘auto color’ in post for ‘color correction.’ I’ve got no idea what I’m doing; used ProcAmp and Equalize after toying around with some other controls and finally got something out that doesn’t look too horrible to me. I’ve actually been keen to try tweaking on adjusting some video in post processing anyway.

Mine is coming back for a 2:37 minute clip to encode in 8:30ish minutes; which is probably a bit more than usual. I’m usually about double real-time on an i7 quadcore 3.4 ghz/cuda video card machine.

At any rate, it’s all working for me or seemingly so – just FYI.

I have applied the update but now find that my SanDisk class 4 15MB/s SD is not fast enough for the Protune capture speed. I get only a few seconds captured before I get a warning that the footage could not be captured as my card is too slow.
What speed card is the minimum to record the Protune version?

When is the App for Android coming???

When is the App for Android coming???

2 weeks after the Iphone APP. so could be any time in the next 10 days.

Maybe my brain is a little fuzzy this morning but if it records at 35mbps would it matter what frame rate it records. Shouldn't the time be the same for all of them?

Gordon

2 weeks after the Iphone APP. so could be any time in the next 10 days.Thanks Ian.

I have applied the update but now find that my SanDisk class 4 15MB/s SD is not fast enough for the Protune capture speed. I get only a few seconds captured before I get a warning that the footage could not be captured as my card is too slow.
What speed card is the minimum to record the Protune version?

Class 10 is the minimum

In Protune mode the camera is using maximum resources that is why preview doesn't work on the iPhone/iPad in that mode, it can't process 2 streams at once.

If you do the numbers a class 4 card is too slow, class 6 should handle the write speed, but class 10 is what is recommended by GoPro. The burst feature on the GOpro definatly requires class10 and they are cheap these days no excuse to not use them.

Don't buy class 6 cards, mine stops after few minutes.
Interesting because it can write 55mbps. Tested.

Thanks for the info about needing Class 10 cards. . . it took me a bit by surprise because I can(through an adapter) record full HD from my Sony EX1 onto those Class 4 cards which is a 35 mb/s codec.

Protune is VBR, max peak was around 44mbit by me.
But still, my card can do 55 :(

No ProTune is CBR Prech. What program/player did you read the 44mbps on?

Bitrate viewer.
Avidemux..

David Newman wrote a lengthy article on the 'why & how' of the Protune upgrade. It's on his blog, Cineform Insider at the following link:

CineForm Insider: Protune (http://cineform.blogspot.com/2012/10/protune.html)


Jr. Pascual
49 Productions

Enjoying the thread and learning a lot. I think my earlier question may be answered in the link Junior Pascual to David Newman's blog: "The CineForm connection: 35Mb/s H.264 H264 is hard to decode, much harder than 15Mb/s. So transcoding to a faster editing format certainly helps"

That said I'd still love confirmation form anyone else about what I mentioned earlier, for me the raw 24p Protune clips do not playback smoothly in VLC Media Player though they played fine pre-update, ProTune, and 24p. Playback is pretty unwatchable for me now. Same is true with trying to drop the raw file in Sony Vegas, which again I had no issues with GoPro clips pre-update. I'm getting the same thing on my primary computer and my laptop.

Not looking for a solution necessarily as I can already use GoPro CineForm Studio to get a playable file though obviously would love to avoid the extra step. I just want to confirm if this is the norm for others trying to playback with VLC or edit the files straight out of the camera without transcoding or, if it's just me and I actually do have a local issue that I should try to resolve.

- Ray

Is it stated somewhere that Go Pro Cameras and Bac Pacs are not recognised by the Device Window via USB3? If not it should be. It had me stuck for quite a time, and just on the off chance switched to USB2 (as another plug, not specifically as USB2) and found it worked. Then I found a mention of it on some website...

David Newman wrote a lengthy article on the 'why & how' of the Protune upgrade. It's on his blog, Cineform Insider at the following link:

CineForm Insider: Protune (http://cineform.blogspot.com/2012/10/protune.html)


Jr. Pascual
49 Productions

Thanks for posting; I’m glad to see that it references the ‘everyday shooter’ being in mind with making this available. I was beginning to feel like this was intended for the pros only. So, it’s to be expected that ‘everyday shooters’ aren’t likely going to be experienced with post correction, etc.

A question for Ian Newland or Abe Kislevitz...

I have a Garmin Asus A10 running Android 2.1 or 2.2 - not sure which. Will the Android App work with my phone?

A question for Ian Newland or Abe Kislevitz...

I have a Garmin Asus A10 running Android 2.1 or 2.2 - not sure which. Will the Android App work with my phone?

Know one will really knows until the app is released and people try on their various hardware. We have users devising ways to wifi connect to a PC, tablet or smartphone on our forum without the GoPro App but that doesn't answer your question. See link below.

GoProUser.freeforums.org • View topic - Howto Livestream to PC and view files on PC/Smartphone! (http://goprouser.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9393)

Just a quick update, no clue what has changed but just did a new little batch of test clips in 24p with Protune and all is right with the world. Played back fine in VLC and on the timeline. Happy me.

- Ray

I've just updated the firmware, very easy no trouble but with Protunes enabled I can no longer get 720 at 25 or 50FPS, I'm in UK PAL land.
Is it the case that those are not available now (unless I turn Protunes off) or am I missing something?

yes, it is not supported (yet)